That sounds terrible actually if you want to put it that way. If my opponent could choose what I hex, that would be so good...for them.
If you're playing around entity, you play around this too, it doesn't add anything new.
Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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That sounds terrible actually if you want to put it that way. If my opponent could choose what I hex, that would be so good...for them.
If you're playing around entity, you play around this too, it doesn't add anything new.
slightconfuse
Banned
New mage secret is interesting. Especially against midrange shaman
pretty sure you check for mirror entity first everytime mage put secret, so no shit
looooool
that's one of worse application if you intend to put it in your deck
looooool
that's one of worse application if you intend to put it in your deck
Karsticles
Member
New Mage secret is a great get from Cabalist's Tome. 
As for mirror entity interaction, I think a while back they fixed the secrets. It wasn't always like that I believe, they trigger in order they're played. So if you play entity first then polymorph, you get a copy first then their minion becomes a sheep, you don't get a sheep unless you play the polymorph first. That's how I think it works considering how freezing/explosive work together,.
Divine Favour is probably too strong not to run. One thing to notice though, Smuggler's Run and Grimestreet Outfitter get weaker the more spells a deck runs.
Yeah, the idea is to run as many minions as possible and keep the hand cycling to explore the Buffs, but this strategy might simply not be strong enough on its own. Deck is also missing Finley, both Steady Shot and Life Tap would fit with the gameplan.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
But what if your opponent could run 6 hexes. Or 3 in a reno deck.
You might be okay with one being a secret. It forces you to play awkwardly and sometimes you can't even play around it. Like druid in the past had a difficult time playing around mirror entity and they often were pressured into risking it being counterspell. If the mage is ahead on board, they might not have the option to wait. But it does strike me more as a control spell rather than a tempo spell. Maybe reno mage so they can run more removal.
It's sorta the same thing with all secrets to varying degrees. Explosive trap is great when you're forced into it, sucks though if your opponent can play around it. Muddies the water a lot when you have action potentially trigger 3 different secrets.
It'll at least be funny if and when someone plays a minion that gets polymorphed and then mirror entity triggers copying the polymorph, because the mage ordered the secrets incorrectly!
So far I think it's more of a vaporize than a hex, but probably better than vaporize since it contests their ability to build a board a bit more proactively.
edit:
On second thought, it might be good enough for aggro mage. Even hitting a small minion might be worth it. Imagine it hitting that 2/6 neutral taunt. But it requires that 1 drop to be played early enough. I think I'll have to stew on this one a bit more.
Polymorph Potion doesn't seem very useful. Everyone knows to play your smallest minion when first testing for a secret to play around mirror entity anyway. Now you just have double the reason to do so. It would have been really interesting if the secret had some way of punishing the opponent for playing a small minion instead.
I think in some cases it could be better than entity, but those are very narrow cases. Notably, when you know your opponent's deck list and what minions they've left. Say, you're going against this c'thun warrior and it's near end of the game and they've like c'thun and doomcaller left, if you put this secret up, you just ruin their win condition, whichever they play. Something like that. It's better than entity against freeze mage because of doomsayer (and any other deck that play doomsayer), it can deny coin from pillager or card draw from acolyte, it can deny gadgetzan for example while entity can't. It can deny like turn 8 Tirion too, so does entity but it's still better with N'Zoth, denying that. I think it's certainly annoying enough but you still don't put it in your deck. Random vaporize can be very annoying and effective too but you still don't put it in your deck.
the main issue is warlock has no worthy spells. Heals are not too hard to come by (Reno). Its the spells. Would need to depend on RNG and run Saraad & pray for pyroblast or maybe do something dumb like play Cho'gall and then next Renounce praying for Mage or something
0 Mana Pyroblast seems good to me.
Yes sir
The card might be meant to synergize with Shadowform / Saraad. I dont think its bad.
I love renomage, but I don't know if I will love this deck to become popular, an one copy deck is hard to use and win, but at the same time is harder for the opponent to read what the opponent has in hand.
Also, I'm done with shadowverse, I prefer to play against midrange shaman than having a disadvantage just for starting first. At least I played enough to justify he purchase of packs that I made, and the game is hella fun
Also, I'm done with shadowverse, I prefer to play against midrange shaman than having a disadvantage just for starting first. At least I played enough to justify he purchase of packs that I made, and the game is hella fun
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Playing Wild after taking a few weeks break.
I can't tell you how many people have rage friend requested after a loss cause I've been running dual secret eaters.
I can't tell you how many people have rage friend requested after a loss cause I've been running dual secret eaters.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
only of you're playing the anyfin variant. NZoth Paladin folds so hard to Priest, from my experience. I didn't make legend with paladin though.
There's no big disadvantage. They have stats for this on Shadowverse and going first vs going second is 49.6% in favor of second. They had you draw an extra card for going second because before going first had a 60% chance to win.
https://shadowverse.com/news/important/news-0025
That's better statistics than Hearthstone although in HS it's more meta dependent. Combo/control classes seem to do better going second but tempo/aggressive decks do a lot better going first so at the moment going first is more advantageous.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
This. It's very class/deck dependant.
lol I bet you got some ragefriends for that. Hm, I should run that sometime
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Paladin can beat priest just on hero power alone. But it does require you to not fall significantly behind on board. Truesilver champion helps prevent that. A well timed equality clear gets it back. And then you just hero power until they use their entombs. Just save tirion for as late as you think you can.
Used to do this to play around mind control, same deal for entomb except it's arguably more important due to slowing their fatigue. They heal 2 per turn but if you're pumping out hero powers, you should be able to beat that and win without playing tirion in case they never play entomb.
I usually mulligan everything for truesilver in order to get that early game advantage. I also used to keep aldors to stop them from getting it off thoughtsteal, since they used to play cabal in every list. Even when they pull some crazy shit off, I still won a lot of those games tbh.
I think official stats blizzard has released have been way closer than a 10%.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It depends on the variant, Dragon Priest is the easier matchup imo. It's the slow control variant that completely fucks over NZoth, I usually just go and try tempo them out. As powerful as equality clear is, it's very easy to play around which often means you only end up with card equity.
MrPing1000
Member
Well that was a spiffy pack.
Shadowverse has 49.6% winrate going first. That's the percentage I was talking about, the 60% first turn winrate was the August patch which resulted in the current change and the current percentage of 49.6%.
I do not believe Hearthstone has a win rate spread that is as close as that in Constructed but I could be wrong. Of course it's way closer than a 10%, I never said otherwise... but is it closer than a 0.8%? The only statistic we have is from VS and that was from quite a while ago:
http://www.vicioussyndicate.com/going-first-vs-coin-better/
They calculated global advantage of going first as 3.3% but of course it was very dependent on the type of deck you played vs what you played against.
So if a Mage has one polymorph potion (played first) and one mirror entity out, will she always get a sheep?
Yes, and if they do the opposite order, they should get the minion.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The first secret played should trigger first. So you play mirror first so you don't end up copying a sheep.
slightconfuse
Banned
it's good against control warrior
Wonder what the warlock legendary will be? Some type of heal ?
"Whenever you play/summon" = Effect triggers BEFORE Battlecries
"After you play/summon" = Effect triggers AFTER Battlecries
This secret says "after" so the Battlecry will trigger. This won't stop a full heal from Reno.
You already have Garrison Commander and it does the same job but better. That's the main issue. And you aren't going to want to hero power 3 times in a single turn unless you also have maiden of the lake on board.
This was the last official number we got, but IIRC Ben said it's gotten closer since then:
This was the last official number we got, but IIRC Ben said it's gotten closer since then:
Have they ever done this specifically for arena? I'm really curious on that.
Shadowverse is way more skewed for the second player in Take Two.
Those stats are already pretty close to what VS has.
Arena stats for going first vs second are god damn abysmal. Some of the classes have over double digits in difference.
Randomizer123454444
Member
So what are the biggest crows people will eat from this expansion?
My guess is Shaku the Collector
A lot of people predicted priest meta, but as eternally pessimistic priest main, I can't see priest climbing anywhere anytime soon. I remember the same "OMG" reaction happening many times before, but by the end of the expansion priest always was at the bottom again. Same thing this time, priest will be among popular decks for a while but will drop in a month or so after people learn how to play in the new meta.
Things will be even worse once entomb and the priest dragons rotate out.
Problem was the loss of lightbomb. If the new dragonfire spell can even remotely fix this issue, Priest will become viable again.
Randomizer123454444
Member
I'm hoping so, but the card quality of this expansion seems to be high across many other classes too. I believe priest cards will merely be keeping up with the rest rather than catching up.
But I'll gladly eat crow on this prediction.
So far I would say:
Overhyped:
Kabal Lackey(outside of aggro mage) : Turn 1 secrets aren't that good(Counter loses to coin Effingy creats a 1 drop) and Mirror sucks as long as control decks play Doomsayer
Pint-Size Potion : Only useful on it's own when both player have a big board, combos with the madness cards a clunky since the reduced attack makes trading harder.
Also, the combo with shadow word horroris a worse board clear than anti heal+ ciryle. That only leaves cabal as a great combo card, but it worse than shrinkmeister which isn't that good.
Dirty Rat : Can backfire heavly even against relatively low curve decks like zoo and is way too unreliable to as a disrupting tool.
Pilfered Power : Doesn't fit into any deck right now.
Dragonfire Potion : Can be countred by playing many dragons , so it's better if priest is a worse deck that people don't techs for or play decks to counter them.
I kind of like that honestly, but if another dragon deck happens to be tier 1, priest are going to have a hard time.
Possible sleeper hits:
Big-Time Racketeer : for Evol shaman (also Brann Synergie)
Piranha launcher : (maybe) It's possible that the beast synergie is good enough to save this card.
Shaku, the Collector : He is not great,but might make the cut in burgle rogue.
Also, Arch-Thief Rafaam might get played in Reno mage thanks to Inkmaster Solia.
I don't think priest is going to be tier one (although the might if the remain cards are fantastic), but tier 2 to high tier 3 seems very likely.
Overhyped:
Kabal Lackey(outside of aggro mage) : Turn 1 secrets aren't that good(Counter loses to coin Effingy creats a 1 drop) and Mirror sucks as long as control decks play Doomsayer
Pint-Size Potion : Only useful on it's own when both player have a big board, combos with the madness cards a clunky since the reduced attack makes trading harder.
Also, the combo with shadow word horroris a worse board clear than anti heal+ ciryle. That only leaves cabal as a great combo card, but it worse than shrinkmeister which isn't that good.
Dirty Rat : Can backfire heavly even against relatively low curve decks like zoo and is way too unreliable to as a disrupting tool.
Pilfered Power : Doesn't fit into any deck right now.
Dragonfire Potion : Can be countred by playing many dragons , so it's better if priest is a worse deck that people don't techs for or play decks to counter them.
I kind of like that honestly, but if another dragon deck happens to be tier 1, priest are going to have a hard time.
Possible sleeper hits:
Big-Time Racketeer : for Evol shaman (also Brann Synergie)
Piranha launcher : (maybe) It's possible that the beast synergie is good enough to save this card.
Shaku, the Collector : He is not great,but might make the cut in burgle rogue.
Also, Arch-Thief Rafaam might get played in Reno mage thanks to Inkmaster Solia.
I don't think priest is going to be tier one (although the might if the remain cards are fantastic), but tier 2 to high tier 3 seems very likely.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Who's actually overhyping this? The card is clearly power creep but that doesn't make it good and pretty much everyone in this thread came to that conclusion.
Portugeezer
Member
Dragonfire Potion is still very powerful, 6 mana for a 5 damage board clear. Most people play Azure Drake at best, which will be annoying for Priest do deal with if they have no tempo on board. Blackrock Mountain and TGT will also be rotated out in a couple of months, so I don't see people playing many random Dragons.
There also haven't been many Dragons shown in this new expansion, only the Priest 5 drop so far which only makes this AOE better.
There also haven't been many Dragons shown in this new expansion, only the Priest 5 drop so far which only makes this AOE better.
I've since wondered why do people think he's not great?
3-mana 2/3 draw a card. Would this guy be playable? Maybe, and with stealth it has coldblood/other buff potential.
Rogue doesn't really have good pro-active 3-drops, they end up playing Si7 without combo very often if the board is empty. This guy is a jackpot in that situation.
I'm not sayig it won't be good, just it's a card people can play around.
Renolock/Handlock also play Twilight drake, another card priest have a hard time dealing with.
Because that guy is worse huckster or swaahburglar
I cant fathon why experienced player like you can think thàt card is any good.. that card is embarassing
Btw my hot take is Patches the pìrate might've the most broken card in game after he introduced
People play around powerful cards, this doesn't change anything.
And yes, 4-attack minions are the nightmare of Priest. But Twilight Drake is a defensive card. That's something priests aren't afraid of. Priests lose in two ways:
They die to fast aggro with a full hand.
They lose the fatigue game because of shit cards like Excavated evil.
How is it worse? Isn't it quite in line with Huckster stat and effect wise? Unless your argument is that huckster is trash also.
And yes Patches is incredible.
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