1 mana Legendary spell aka 1600 dust needed to do the quest.
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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1 mana Legendary spell aka 1600 dust needed to do the quest.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Definitely won't be Jade related just because of the timing of expansions. Would mean the Druid quest would be completely unusable in Standard for an entire year.
I'm assuming one quest will be to use your hero power a set number of times.
Someone will likely get a "Play X Secrets" quest.
I wonder if there will be something like a "Have 7 minions in play at once" quest.
You may even get some quest that just requires you to get to a certain turn count. "Quest: Survive 15 turns"
Someone will likely get a "Play X Secrets" quest.
I wonder if there will be something like a "Have 7 minions in play at once" quest.
You may even get some quest that just requires you to get to a certain turn count. "Quest: Survive 15 turns"
There might be a play 7 spell Quest.
Or draw 7 cards Quest.
It doesn't have to be all minion summoning. I just predicted some really lazy ones.
BigJonsson
Member
I have a challenge a friend quest to do, BigJonsson#1492 if you are in NA
Edit - Done
Edit - Done
Can we just take a second to appreciate the quality level acting that Ben Brode brings when it comes to hyping up HS? Absolute perfection, I bet Ben Brode could make paint drying an exciting event with his energy.
Truly a gem of a person, one of the best things about keeping up with HS is listening to this guy talk.
Truly a gem of a person, one of the best things about keeping up with HS is listening to this guy talk.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
n'zoth priest is curvestone?
Yeah, about 1 mana sound right, compared to spare parts and the toxins.
BananasWithGuns
Member
And to think, there have been people on GAF proclaiming he should be fired lol.
He has very little input on card design these days, it's mostly macro level stuff which the game has definitely been improving on.
More communication, faster balance changes, faster content releases, actual Arena focus, more listening to feedback etc.
slightconfuse
Banned
What?? Did they just give priest super Reno???
The quest meta sounds interesting
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/52584-amara-warden-of-hope
Adapt seems pretty cool.
The quest meta sounds interesting
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/52584-amara-warden-of-hope
Adapt seems pretty cool.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Yes but unlike reno you can't play it on turn 6. Not unless you somehow manage to play 7 deathrattles before then.
It does kinda seem like a stronger reno though. And it's an 8/8 taunt which some might be overlooking.
slightconfuse
Banned
The new Mage legendary seems kind of bad.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
So nerfs are not hitting this month? Thought they said they would.
slightconfuse
Banned
Probably when the expansion hits.
I a bind the warlock quest will involve demons.
Karsticles
Member
Phoenix cards are my favorite in card games, but I wish the Mage legendary was a 2/2 for 3 that is reborn over and over instead of what we got. Only 2 rebirths is kind of lame.
http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/thijs-wild-deathrattle-priest-september-2016-season-30/
Even though he spews egregious amounts of BS about the game's balance, I do find him unquestionably charming. Adorable, even.
N'Zoth Priest plays heavily on curve in Wild, at least:
http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/decks/thijs-wild-deathrattle-priest-september-2016-season-30/
They went though the trouble of making an elemental tag, the tribal synergy may be worth it.
Mage has Anomalus, the new Mage Legendary and Water Elemental as their Elementals.
They can very easily get more Elemental cards in the expansion.
And by the way... Magma Rager buffed after all these years. I can't believe we are finally seeing the day.
But Shamans are very clearly the favorites in terms of running Elementals if they are good.
Fire Elemental - Top tier card.
Al Akir - Usable top end Legendary.
Unbound Elemental - Hella underrated card IMO.
Earth Elemental - Usable card.
Fireguard Destroyer - Decent but rotating out. Maybe some Wild potential.
Rumbling Elemental - Wild only soon.
Neptulon - Wild only.
Twilight Elemental - You get this from the Twilight Hammer weapon.
They can very easily get more Elemental cards in the expansion.
And by the way... Magma Rager buffed after all these years. I can't believe we are finally seeing the day.
But Shamans are very clearly the favorites in terms of running Elementals if they are good.
Fire Elemental - Top tier card.
Al Akir - Usable top end Legendary.
Unbound Elemental - Hella underrated card IMO.
Earth Elemental - Usable card.
Fireguard Destroyer - Decent but rotating out. Maybe some Wild potential.
Rumbling Elemental - Wild only soon.
Neptulon - Wild only.
Twilight Elemental - You get this from the Twilight Hammer weapon.
slightconfuse
Banned
I wonder what they will do with elementals? More status effects?
Maybe a burn effect that removes minoon HP over time
Maybe a burn effect that removes minoon HP over time
It seems like a tribe that would be limited to a few classes much like Beasts are mostly hunter things (although they continually try and make beast Druid a thing). And besides Hunter and Kill Command, the tribes don't have a strong record as being good in Hearthstone. Pirates most recently being the strong exception to the rule. Who knows which side of that coin this stuff will fall on? With them adding the tag to Ragnaros, you gotta wonder.
Mage has 2 obvious cards that would get the tag (Anaomalous we know of and Water Elemental should as well), Shaman has LOTS more though. It would make sense to get a few decent ones in shaman and 1 or 2 in mage and then everyone else gets mostly nothing.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Yeah, I think with totem synergy mostly rotating out, Shaman will be moving on to a lot of elemental synergy this year. Should be interesting.
Also expecting their class legendary to be an elemental as well.
Buccaneer and Spirit Claws nerfs should be hitting tomorrow.
Also expecting their class legendary to be an elemental as well.
Buccaneer and Spirit Claws nerfs should be hitting tomorrow.
Karsticles
Member
Minion DoT attached to a minion effect seems inherently bad to me - the opposing player will always trade the minion in immediately.
We already have a good baseline for what various elements can do to guide us:
Frost Elemental freezes on battlecry.
Water Elemental freezes on hit.
Frost Shock freezes.
Earth Elemental has taunt.
Earth Shock silences.
Rockbiter Weapon gives more attack.
Fireguard Destroyer gets extra attack.
Fire Elemental deals damage on battlecry.
Dust Devil has windfury.
Al'Akir the Windlord has Windfury/Charge/Taunt/Divine Shield.
I would be surprised to see much innovation beyond this.
Uh.. the Mage Legendary is super good with N'zoth, you suddenly get 6 card from one resource
only Jade Druid can outvalue that, its would've staple for Reno mage in Wild.
And there's chance its overlooked to how good it is in Standard, card can go 3 for 1, that really good even tho in most case its will just go to second evolution, that still good... if Kazakus Mage or Control Mage is a thing, card really fit there,
And I wonder if that card would mage Slow Mage deck put in Twilight Drake and Mountain Giant.. with that mage legendary, acolyte.. and even Kabal courier your hand can almost always filled on turn 4/5
only Jade Druid can outvalue that, its would've staple for Reno mage in Wild.
And there's chance its overlooked to how good it is in Standard, card can go 3 for 1, that really good even tho in most case its will just go to second evolution, that still good... if Kazakus Mage or Control Mage is a thing, card really fit there,
And I wonder if that card would mage Slow Mage deck put in Twilight Drake and Mountain Giant.. with that mage legendary, acolyte.. and even Kabal courier your hand can almost always filled on turn 4/5
We already had Elementals in Hearthstone, and they weren't Elementals. But now they are! Who knows what might happen.
Plus the adapt minion they showed was a dinosaur and it was marked as a beast.
This is a good point; I forgot a dino was revealed.
A new tag may well be [carniverous] Plant then.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Tonight was a recollection of what it is like to lose to RNG. For example, paletress summons a deathwing.
No because Mountain Giant sucks and you can't guarantee enough draw before turn 4 to get a big enough Drake or guarantee Mountain Giant on turn 4. That's why Warlock is unique in being able to make Mountain Giant a usable card... it can guarantee that it's played on turn 4. These cards get significantly worse later on, they are at their peak at turn 4.
You need to actually draw 2 cards without spending a card. That's actually impossible for Mage before turn 4. Can't do it with Acolyte because you need 3 mana to play it and then ping it on next turn.. even if you do you will not have the cards. Can't do it with Babbling Book on turn 1, the Bird on turn 2 (it dies) and then Arcane Intellect on turn 3. In each of those cases, you are neutral on card or +1 on card.. you need to be +2 on cards to be able to get Mountain Giant on turn 4.
This bird card isn't that good because it's always anti tempo save for if you use Nzoth. At that point your deck is super heavy and Mage isn't well equipped to play that kind of playstyle without a big heal which Reno Jackson provided. That deck is probably cutting a bunch of burn spells or other value cards and you are still going to lose to Jaraxxus, Jade Druids, probably this new Nzoth Priest as well while hurting your match up against Aggro decks because that bird is garbage against aggro (it's actively terrible and actually worse than using hero power in the Pirate match up). You can win against Control Warrior I guess.
It might be good in Wild though for sure. People already use a good amount of Deathrattles and this is another good Deathrattle to throw in I guess. But like... is it better than Mistress of Pain, Belcher, Dr Boom, Shredder, Deathlord, Sylvanas, Cairne, Sky Golem? All of those cards are at least good when played on curve and when revived have more tempo too. I guess if you are running the Bird you can afford to cut one of the Deathrattles because it acts like a two in one.
You just have to ask yourself this... is it worth having a bad turn 2 and a bad turn 6 just so you can have a good turn 10? Funny thing is that in Wild this would be better if it shuffled back into your deck, at least you can run this in a pure Fatigue Mage deck which can crush a lot of control decks.
Here are my preliminary thoughts on the cards that were shown.
Volcano - Elemental Destruction is rotating out and so Control Shaman could use another big AOE spell, and this fits that niche nicely. it is important to note that this spell only hits minions, so it's not like Spreading Madness where a bunch of trash damage is going to hit faces and make the effect super inconsistent. One thing that makes this spell really nice is that if your opponent has two decently large bodies on the board, this can kill them in ways that spells like Elemental Destruction and Flamestrike cannot. For example, if your opponent has an 8/8 and a 5/5 on the board, this spell will kill both of them. That's very nice, because it's like two assassinates in a single card. It'll also be decent when your opponent has a lot of little weinies. Worst board states would be if you had several totems and your opponent has a collection of midrange minions. Overall I think the spell is very good and will see play in slower Shaman lists.
Pyros - Doesn't naturally fit in any current mage decks but this is a lot of theoretical value in a kind of grindey mage deck. You kind of want to think of it like a 2 mana 2/2 that draws a weaker card, kind of like Undercity Huckster. That makes it pretty nice although we'll see if Mage gets significant Elemental synergies and whether this can make the cut. I don't think it's so weak that it'll never be considered.
Verdant Longneck - Eh... we'll see how the adapt mechanic works out but just based on this minion I'm not sold. It obviously adds a lot of flexibility to a minion but the effects don't seem strong enough individually. Divine Shield seems the best so far because it's the only result that actually gives you a minion that would normally be slightly overstatted. I think Beast Druid would rather curve into Stranglethorn Tiger or Druid of the Claw, and I'm not sure this really fits in any other current gameplan for Druid. Could be nice in arena, though.
Awaken the Makers - Hard to tell without seeing the other deathrattles that priest has access to in this expansion, but based on JUST the current pool this seems pretty bad to me. Summoning 7 deathrattle minions in priest is the definition of slow and awkward and the Quest mechanic itself forces you to consume a playable card and basically skip your first turn. So that makes a card like Zombie Chow a lot less desirable. I just see a lot of problems here and Blizzard has their work cut out for them in order for me to improve my rating of this card. Any theorycrafting you do with this card right now just leads into a deck that gets crushed by aggro decks, except for MAYBE Wild N'Zoth Priest, even then I'm not sure that deck wants to skip Turn 1.
Volcano - Elemental Destruction is rotating out and so Control Shaman could use another big AOE spell, and this fits that niche nicely. it is important to note that this spell only hits minions, so it's not like Spreading Madness where a bunch of trash damage is going to hit faces and make the effect super inconsistent. One thing that makes this spell really nice is that if your opponent has two decently large bodies on the board, this can kill them in ways that spells like Elemental Destruction and Flamestrike cannot. For example, if your opponent has an 8/8 and a 5/5 on the board, this spell will kill both of them. That's very nice, because it's like two assassinates in a single card. It'll also be decent when your opponent has a lot of little weinies. Worst board states would be if you had several totems and your opponent has a collection of midrange minions. Overall I think the spell is very good and will see play in slower Shaman lists.
Pyros - Doesn't naturally fit in any current mage decks but this is a lot of theoretical value in a kind of grindey mage deck. You kind of want to think of it like a 2 mana 2/2 that draws a weaker card, kind of like Undercity Huckster. That makes it pretty nice although we'll see if Mage gets significant Elemental synergies and whether this can make the cut. I don't think it's so weak that it'll never be considered.
Verdant Longneck - Eh... we'll see how the adapt mechanic works out but just based on this minion I'm not sold. It obviously adds a lot of flexibility to a minion but the effects don't seem strong enough individually. Divine Shield seems the best so far because it's the only result that actually gives you a minion that would normally be slightly overstatted. I think Beast Druid would rather curve into Stranglethorn Tiger or Druid of the Claw, and I'm not sure this really fits in any other current gameplan for Druid. Could be nice in arena, though.
Awaken the Makers - Hard to tell without seeing the other deathrattles that priest has access to in this expansion, but based on JUST the current pool this seems pretty bad to me. Summoning 7 deathrattle minions in priest is the definition of slow and awkward and the Quest mechanic itself forces you to consume a playable card and basically skip your first turn. So that makes a card like Zombie Chow a lot less desirable. I just see a lot of problems here and Blizzard has their work cut out for them in order for me to improve my rating of this card. Any theorycrafting you do with this card right now just leads into a deck that gets crushed by aggro decks, except for MAYBE Wild N'Zoth Priest, even then I'm not sure that deck wants to skip Turn 1.
Well if you are considering current strength of aggro, everything except that Volcano card is trash and even that is not that good.
The Bird is actively trash against aggro, there is no denying it. Like Pirate Warrior is going to laugh at that shit and then go face.
The Dino is going to get ignored at turn 5 if it's not taunted. Maybe it can be put into charge form and charged at a minion to remove something but like... you can do that now with Druid of the Claw, doesn't make it an efficient use of 5 mana.
The Quest is pretty slow for aggro, the game is going to be decided either way if you get to that stage. If you survived long enough to play 7 Deathrattles AND then survived another turn to play the 5 mana card then you have won already. The heal from the Quest is more relevant in midrange match ups.
The Volcano is the best of the 4 cards in terms of dealing with an aggro meta because it's a full board wipe. But you are still overloading yourself for 2 mana on the following turn and in many cases Lightning Storm would've sufficed against aggro.
As you can see... the existence of a virtually unchanged Pirate Warrior in the new standard is going to stifle all these cool new cards and mechanics.
This is the deck to counter/beat in the Standard meta. It's virtually unchanged from stuff you see online. All the other control decks are getting severely nerfed.
The next on the list is Midrange Shaman to beat which is still fast enough to beat those other decks. Here's a list I made without even thinking much.
The Bird is actively trash against aggro, there is no denying it. Like Pirate Warrior is going to laugh at that shit and then go face.
The Dino is going to get ignored at turn 5 if it's not taunted. Maybe it can be put into charge form and charged at a minion to remove something but like... you can do that now with Druid of the Claw, doesn't make it an efficient use of 5 mana.
The Quest is pretty slow for aggro, the game is going to be decided either way if you get to that stage. If you survived long enough to play 7 Deathrattles AND then survived another turn to play the 5 mana card then you have won already. The heal from the Quest is more relevant in midrange match ups.
The Volcano is the best of the 4 cards in terms of dealing with an aggro meta because it's a full board wipe. But you are still overloading yourself for 2 mana on the following turn and in many cases Lightning Storm would've sufficed against aggro.
As you can see... the existence of a virtually unchanged Pirate Warrior in the new standard is going to stifle all these cool new cards and mechanics.
This is the deck to counter/beat in the Standard meta. It's virtually unchanged from stuff you see online. All the other control decks are getting severely nerfed.
The next on the list is Midrange Shaman to beat which is still fast enough to beat those other decks. Here's a list I made without even thinking much.
That's not even in the same stratosphere.
Kabal Courier gives you a CLASS CARD (which is already above power level of an average card) that is a DISCOVER option (so better than a draw) from 3 classes that have some of the best spells in the game (so above regular class card Discover even). In addition, Kabal Courier gives you card on Battlecry so it's immediate and more useful in the later stages of the game.
Pyros gives you a card that is well below average and is on Deathrattle so it's even slower especially in a late game situation. Would you play a Boulderfist Ogre in your Reno Mage deck? No and the card you get from Pyros is worse than a Boulderfist Ogre in terms of tempo. With Kabal Courier, you get one bad turn and then potentially a good turn because you are likely to pick a good option for the match up from one of the picks... with Pyros you have a consistently bad 2 turn play at the points in the game where you can't afford to make bad turns.
It's a different kind of value from Kabal Courier (and for the record I had rated Kabal Courier as a 4 before so I already knew it was going to be good/playable, so I didn't overlook it). The overall card advantage value of Pyro is higher but you give up tempo for 2 turns and there's no flexibility to the card whatsoever. Kabal Courier on the hard is card advantage and huge flexibility, it's well made for classes that are designed to be reactionary. You cant really play a reactionary style using Pyro, you are fitting into a deck that plans to out value you not out control you or out anti aggro you. Right now the best Reno Mage decks are ones that are either anti aggro teched or burn tech.
So yeah you can slot it into a value heavy Reno Mage right now (but that's aside the point because Reno Jackson isn't going to be a thing in new Standard) but how much are you going to increase your win percentage by having it in your deck? That's the ultimate criteria when it comes to min and maxing. What are you improving in terms of match ups?
Jade match ups? You are going to lose the Jade match ups with this card in your deck.
Pirate match up? You are definitely losing the Jade match up with this card in your deck.
Renolock match up? You are still going to lose to Jaraxxus and with this card you lose even more because having two bad turns against Renolock means the Renolock is going to have more chances to set up tempo plays later on in the game.
Control Warrior match up? Yeah this card allows you to win that match up. But you were already winning that match up with Bran + Soulcaster + Kazakus anyway.
Dragon Priest match up? Too much anti tempo against Dragon Priest if you play both of the first two forms.
This is just current meta though, the card might fair better in the new meta (and/or in Wild) so that's why I am not making a definitive statement about it in the future. But in the current meta this card would be mediocre.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
If the last part of pyros wasn't bad, pyros would be a great card.
Yup. As always y'all gonna have a week to play around with the cool new cards then it's back to business as asual
yeah, I feel the last part needed to have like taunt at least.
I don't have any problem with the first 2 but I don't think you would ever want to play 10 mana 10/10 unless there is nothing else in your hand you can play. The first 2 are alright in control games and the value is certainly there but I feel the 3rd form will stay in your hand 95 percent of times.
What could change it is the elemental tag, from their video sounds like elemental synergy is about summoning so maybe there is more to it, if you can play it for free for example.
If you look at the card the cost is in (), meaning it could change.
I don't have any problem with the first 2 but I don't think you would ever want to play 10 mana 10/10 unless there is nothing else in your hand you can play. The first 2 are alright in control games and the value is certainly there but I feel the 3rd form will stay in your hand 95 percent of times.
What could change it is the elemental tag, from their video sounds like elemental synergy is about summoning so maybe there is more to it, if you can play it for free for example.
If you look at the card the cost is in (), meaning it could change.
Yeah agreed. I think the 6 mana needed to be slightly better, like it needed taunt and the 10 mana card needed to be exceptional for that cost.
Elemental synergy might be a real thing. Maybe there's more Deathrattle synergy. Right now those two tags are in favor of the card and there might be more. So yeah that's why we have official card reviews AFTER the card set is completed.
Right now we are just tiding ourselves with random discussion that has a lot of qualifiers to it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
We're already seeing stuff that really competes with if not topples the current pool. Amara is reno on crack without the singleton requirement and instead requires deathrattles.
Volcano is in some ways as stronger than elemental destruction since it clears boards with 15 or less health on it. If your opponent has 15 health across 5 minions (zoolock) it clears it. Or if it has 15 health on a single minion, it clears it. Throw down acolyte of pain before hand to draw 3 cards. This is that crappy rng warlock spell but much better since it only hits minions.
Verdant longneck may be okay since it's a beast. I'm not gonna count it out by any means because beast druid isn't losing much. I think it'll take some use of this new mechanic to really get a feel for how often it has a good option. Seems like there are enough decent options that you won't get screwed at least.
Pyros doesn't seem great since the last iteration is 10 mana. I'm not really impressed with the card but it's a nice idea. Seems like the 10 mana version needed some text to it, perhaps deal damage to minions or something.
Volcano is in some ways as stronger than elemental destruction since it clears boards with 15 or less health on it. If your opponent has 15 health across 5 minions (zoolock) it clears it. Or if it has 15 health on a single minion, it clears it. Throw down acolyte of pain before hand to draw 3 cards. This is that crappy rng warlock spell but much better since it only hits minions.
Verdant longneck may be okay since it's a beast. I'm not gonna count it out by any means because beast druid isn't losing much. I think it'll take some use of this new mechanic to really get a feel for how often it has a good option. Seems like there are enough decent options that you won't get screwed at least.
Pyros doesn't seem great since the last iteration is 10 mana. I'm not really impressed with the card but it's a nice idea. Seems like the 10 mana version needed some text to it, perhaps deal damage to minions or something.
veryslowhand
Banned
So how is the general feeling about the 18 class legendary thing?
I am feeling pretty great considering we are getting less neutral Legendaries which usually end up being bad for the most part anyway.
Hopefully we don't get bad class Legendaries though.
It's too early to say. If they give them out as part of the adventure, then great. If I spend $50 on the adventure with non-discounted Google Play money and then have to spend a ton more money rolling the dice for legendaries, then that would suck. The odds of getting one for a class I want would be astronomically small.
If they give a ton of dust that might help but it remains to be seen what dust will happen on the daily bonus.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Sounds good to me. I am sure some will see it negative, somehow. But overall, I think it's a great thing. I think they've printed way too many neutral legendary cards in the past and not enough class ones. They've learned from expansions like GVG and LOE that having too many strong legendary neutral cards leads to a smaller meta game with less variety.
It's much like gadgetzan trying to move away from too many strong neutral cards with the triclass stuff.
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