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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Magma rager saw play in classic too, in handlock. It's still a 0.
The only way a card like ferryman becomes playable is if rogue ever needs to run 4 brewmasters or some combo synergy card is added. 4 brewmasters is highly unlikely to see play in this set and we know now there is no combo synergy card soo... right now it's worse than a card that sees practically speaking 0 play. If you want 4 bounce effects, you probably run shadowsteps and brewmasters before running ferryman. So you essentially need a deck that requires 6 of those effects.
It just won't see play in constructed. And there are a ton of cards that could see constructed play but would be around 2-3. They aren't great cards, but could be good enough. Ferryman just doesn't fit there. It's just not good enough, nor does it have some unique role to fill outside of being a vanilla 2/3 sometimes and vanilla 2/3 sucks.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Posting for new page.
Princess Carl
Member
That is quite the card back. mmmm
The Wizard
Member
If I don't open the game until the expansion drops do I get a chance at a golden MSOG epic?
They have deck recipes for mean streets already.
Should work that way, yeah. You're fine right now though, just delay when you play on the 1st until after the cards launch.
Should work that way, yeah. You're fine right now though, just delay when you play on the 1st until after the cards launch.
Magma Rager did not see serious play in Handlock. I recall a single meme video that played it with Shadowflame. But it wasn't a serious video.
And the fact that you keep trying to convince me that Gadgetzan Ferryman will see no play in the next meta is just demonstrating the fact that you're completely missing the point. I already know it won't see play in Constructed.
So like the Xmas brawl card back last year. Hope it's something special if they're already teasing it now.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I am just trying to get my point across in that this is an evaluation of constructed. I think when I see you saying a vanilla 2/3 is a 2, you're talking about arena. That's the only world where a 2/3 for 2 mana is acceptable to be played.
I am talking about Constructed. "Sees no play" is not an automatic 1 star. That's the point I'm trying to get across.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think plenty of cards won't see play that will be rated at 2 or even 3 due to their potential. I am saying ferryman doesn't have that potential. If you want a bounce mechanic you pick shadowstep or panda before ferryman I think.
slightconfuse
Banned
Batstone #2
Next week!!!!
You have to use a certain amount of new card
https://m.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/..._2_official_information_thread/?compact=false
Next week!!!!
You have to use a certain amount of new card
https://m.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/..._2_official_information_thread/?compact=false
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Second-Rate Bruiser all the way down at number 70 seems low. Why aren't people more excited about that card? Seems like it should be easy to make into a 3 mana 4/5 taunt against aggro, which is a pretty common archetype in hearthstone. I'd put that as a top 10 card myself.
It's not necessarily an either/or thing. You might want all three. Redundancy is important sometimes.
Gadgetzan Ferryman is probably better than Brewmaster.
If you want to bounce something, you most likely want to do in the same turn you played it, so the combo part is not a downside at all.
As mentioned before, it's better than brewmaster if you don't want to bounce anything.
If you want to bounce something, you most likely want to do in the same turn you played it, so the combo part is not a downside at all.
As mentioned before, it's better than brewmaster if you don't want to bounce anything.
that's... much better!
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
That's like arguing 8 ragers could be vital to a deck. Maybe if there was a strategy that let you win the game if you play a rager on turn 3.
If you're playing a deck that seeks to troll people with rager, then yes, 8 ragers would be important.
But we're talking about bounce mechanics. If your whole deck is built around bounce, having 4 bounce cards is not enough.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
New deck recipes hype
You can build your deck around bounce mechanics, and maybe you run 6. It won't be remotely competitive though.
You can build your deck around bounce mechanics, and maybe you run 6. It won't be remotely competitive though.
Probably not now. I'm sure some people will try a Jade Spirit bounce deck. It probably won't be good.
Introduce a similar minion at lower cost? It might be competitive.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
But there is no similar minion. This is how it is rated now.
The scale isn't from 0 to 5, it's from 1 to 5.
1 is the absolute worst, trash cards in the game. These are the Booty Bays, the Magma Ragers and Poison Blade. Cards that are so bad that you could decrease a whole mana cost and then they MIGHT see play. They are far below the expected stats/value of a given cost
3 is an "average" card. By average I mean right on the basic power curve or the expected value/stats of a card. If you put all the cards on a bell curve with the godlike and terrible cards at extremes, then the 3 score cards will be most frequent. This is how it works out statistically, most cards would be in this range.
Most cards which are 3 in power level do not see constructed play. Why would anyone play an "average" card in their top decks? They won't because deck slots are limited so you want MINIMUM above average/very good cards. Sometimes you play a 3 cost card because it fits a niche/tech/game plan but it's not the norm.
Constructed decks are mostly filled with 4-5 strength cards as they should be. There's not a single card in the Midrange Shaman deck list that is 3 in strength. Only Kobold Geomancer is 3 strength and that very seldomly sees play.
Better way is to grade them. A, B, C, D, F. Most cards in the game will be Cs. Average, mediocre... usually not good enough for high constructed play.
If everything is rated by constructive playability then there are only 3 options: Unplayable, playable and staple/broken. That pretty much means that every 3,2 and 1 card is unplayable, 4 is playable and 5 is staple. Putting 60-70% of cards in the game in one broad category is not helpful in categorizing.
1 is the absolute worst, trash cards in the game. These are the Booty Bays, the Magma Ragers and Poison Blade. Cards that are so bad that you could decrease a whole mana cost and then they MIGHT see play. They are far below the expected stats/value of a given cost
3 is an "average" card. By average I mean right on the basic power curve or the expected value/stats of a card. If you put all the cards on a bell curve with the godlike and terrible cards at extremes, then the 3 score cards will be most frequent. This is how it works out statistically, most cards would be in this range.
Most cards which are 3 in power level do not see constructed play. Why would anyone play an "average" card in their top decks? They won't because deck slots are limited so you want MINIMUM above average/very good cards. Sometimes you play a 3 cost card because it fits a niche/tech/game plan but it's not the norm.
Constructed decks are mostly filled with 4-5 strength cards as they should be. There's not a single card in the Midrange Shaman deck list that is 3 in strength. Only Kobold Geomancer is 3 strength and that very seldomly sees play.
Better way is to grade them. A, B, C, D, F. Most cards in the game will be Cs. Average, mediocre... usually not good enough for high constructed play.
If everything is rated by constructive playability then there are only 3 options: Unplayable, playable and staple/broken. That pretty much means that every 3,2 and 1 card is unplayable, 4 is playable and 5 is staple. Putting 60-70% of cards in the game in one broad category is not helpful in categorizing.
By "similar" I mean making a win condition out of a bounce. You can do this with Coldlight Oracle right now. Once Gang Up gets rotated out, you need other ways to continually play that card.
slightconfuse
Banned
Over watch expansion next!
BananasWithGuns
Member
Thanks for setting this up, going to run through it now.
This makes me so happy. Hopefully this will stop the incessant whining about characters not matching their Lore counterparts and also the constant begging for certain characters to be added into the game. Let Hearthstone be it's own thang.
Ha that would be neat
Nice to see I am in line with what most of GAF is thinking.
After seeing the whole set I am more excited to try out the new warrior cards.
People still hesitant to call cards top tier and shit.
this is something I really wanted, don't like this game being specifically tied to the warcraft lore.
it also should give them more space to work on the ideas without worrying about not being faithful to Warcraft
BananasWithGuns
Member
Too gimmicky probably?
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/shaman#10:1;256:1;270:2;280:2;432:1;525:1;676:2;22265:2;27246:1;33159:2;33160:2;35232:2;42021:1;42042:2;42045:2;49625:1;49639:1;49677:2;49696:1;49751:1;
Obviously not refined, just kind of throwing stuff at the canvas.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/shaman#10:1;256:1;270:2;280:2;432:1;525:1;676:2;22265:2;27246:1;33159:2;33160:2;35232:2;42021:1;42042:2;42045:2;49625:1;49639:1;49677:2;49696:1;49751:1;
Obviously not refined, just kind of throwing stuff at the canvas.
To carry the point home, knowing the difference between a 1 and a 2 can mean something in constructed even if you aren't actively seeking to put those cards in your decks. Hearthstone, as random as it is, can give you a bad card randomly, or you might have to choose between unplayable cards within a discover option. A card that's a 2 could actually be powerful in fringe situations and it might be appropriate to know when to pick one. A card that's a 1 is something that you would turn your nose up at in almost any situation. So being able to distinguish between the power levels of bad cards is important.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'll be honest I was picking numbers pretty arbitrarily.
Just remember as of this time there are only like 6 responses to the survey. Not exactly "all of GAF" lol.
That said a few outlier responses that I think are interesting:
Freezing Potion, Meanstreet Marshall and Getaway Kodo have ratings at every level 1-5.
Drakonid Operative and Dragonfire Potion have a 100% 5 rating so far.
Backstreet Leper has a 100% 1 rating so far (as it should be, IMO).
There are people other than me who think Pint-Size Potion is overhyped?? I thought I was the only one. D=
Quite many here have rated it borderline unplayable.
I placed it at 4, but I was debating a 5...
I'm a madman, I still think that card can be insane
slightconfuse
Banned
Pint size potion is great for things like auctioneer and Drake
BananasWithGuns
Member
Probably the one I find most interesting so far.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It's a 3 mana 5/5 if you want to play minions again just trade with it.Probably the one I find most interesting so far.
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