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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 1. Haswell, Crysis 3, and secret fairy sauce. Read da OP

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K

killerpenguin

Member
So the final part of my new rig came yesterday, built it all up and most everything is well.

One thing though, my Samsung 840 250gb SSD is getting a Windows Experience Index rating of only 5.9 (Windows 7 x64). I have no other hard drives installed. It's plugged into the SATA 1 port which is indicated as being the 6gb/s port. Motherboard is MSI Z77A-G45, CPU i5 3570k. Any idea what might be going on?

Haven't had a chance to run any other tools to get other readings yet.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
killerpenguin said:
One thing though, my Samsung 840 250gb SSD is getting a Windows Experience Index rating of only 5.9 (Windows 7 x64). Any idea what might be going on?
Click to expand...
WEI is dumb. Change the number in your registry to make you feel better.
AliceInJam said:
Hey guys, I am in need of a little help. I just put together my first pc but I am having some trouble on boot up. Here's the run down of what I have done. My very first boot up everything went fine, I got the error message saying there was no os installed and such, so then I powered down via the power button and booted back up again and nothing....no bios screen, nothing. No signal whatsoever to my monitor. I have tried removing the ram, and putting it back in. I tried different video connections, dvi, hdmi and no luck. When I turn it on the fans are going and it seems to be powered on. I just don't know why it would boot normally one time then stop. Any suggestions?? This is super frustrating.
Click to expand...
This is super late, but doing a hard reset usually fixes problems (or you forgot to plug in the 8 pin mobo power). Alternatively the default Video got changed to a different video out (closet port to mobo is usually #1, or it might be labelled on your GPU).

Hard Reset:
Turn off PC. Wait 15s.
Switch PSU off. Wait 15s.
Hold power button for 15s. Wait 15s.
Turn PSU on. Wait 15s.
Power on PC.
 
T

TheD

The Detective
puebla said:
unfortunately I'm going through this right now and getting bsods and lockups. I don't have the option to rollback the driver. I'm gonna have to research this some more.
Click to expand...

Why don't you just uninstall it (in safe mode) and install an older driver?
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
puebla said:
unfortunately I'm going through this right now and getting bsods and lockups. I don't have the option to rollback the driver. I'm gonna have to research this some more.
Click to expand...
Hitting F8 to boot into safemode with networking, then installing the old drivers won't work?
 
S

Smash88

Banned
I can confirm I am getting BSODs and lock ups in games, not to mention that Battlefield 3 is showing some major artifacting.

I'll stick with it, as it doesn't necessarily kill GPUs, but these drivers are no good at all.

I have a GTX Titan for those wondering.
 
P

Paul_uk

Neo Member
Hello everyone, first post will be for some help please.

So basically my main gaming pc died a few years ago and ive been stuck using my htpc, i did upgrade the graphics card from an integrated hd4000 to a 7850 but the rest of the system is useless.

The main problem im facing is if a 4670k is a better upgrade than the 3570k, since i have heard that haswell chucks out a lot of heat which will limit overclocks. I also want it to be quiet since its basically still my htpc (in my bedroom) and the wife can't sleep with lots of noise.

Your Current Specs: AMD X2 240 / 2GB (DDR2 Value select) / Asus M4A785D-M Pro / AMD HD 7850 / Antec NeoPower 500W / Fractal Design R4.

Budget: £450 (UK) - Maximum.

Main Use: Gaming and pcsx2 emulation.

Monitor Resolution: 1080p (32" hdtv).

List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: Metro 2033 & Last Light (30 FPS is fine but would like all the eye candy on). PCSX2 - Would love to play through Rouge Galaxy as my PS2 is on its last legs.

Looking to reuse any parts?: Everything except for CPU/Mobo/Ram.

When will you build?: Next month.

Will you be overclocking?: Yes (the cpu).

The parts i have in mind are as follows:

4670k with a MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming mobo + 8GB Corsair Value Select (DDR3 1600) + Noctua NH-D14.

OR

3570k with a ASUS Sabertooth + 8GB Corsair Value Select (DDR3 1600) + Noctua NH-D14.

Price wise theres not a lot in it, so thats why im stumped.

Thank you very much for any help you can give.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
Paul_uk said:
Hello everyone, first post will be for some help please.

So basically my main gaming pc died a few years ago and ive been stuck using my htpc, i did upgrade the graphics card from an integrated hd4000 to a 7850 but the rest of the system is useless.

The main problem im facing is if a 4670k is a better upgrade than the 3570k, since i have heard that haswell chucks out a lot of heat which will limit overclocks. I also want it to be quiet since its basically still my htpc (in my bedroom) and the wife can't sleep with lots of noise.

Your Current Specs: AMD X2 240 / 2GB (DDR2 Value select) / Asus M4A785D-M Pro / AMD HD 7850 / Antec NeoPower 500W / Fractal Design R4.

Budget: £450 (UK) - Maximum.

Main Use: Gaming and pcsx2 emulation.

Monitor Resolution: 1080p (32" hdtv).

List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: Metro 2033 & Last Light (30 FPS is fine but would like all the eye candy on). PCSX2 - Would love to play through Rouge Galaxy as my PS2 is on its last legs.

Looking to reuse any parts?: Everything except for CPU/Mobo/Ram.

When will you build?: Next month.

Will you be overclocking?: Yes (the cpu).

The parts i have in mind are as follows:

4670k with a MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming mobo + 8GB Corsair Value Select (DDR3 1600) + Noctua NH-D14.

OR

3570k with a ASUS Sabertooth + 8GB Corsair Value Select (DDR3 1600) + Noctua NH-D14.

Price wise theres not a lot in it, so thats why im stumped.

Thank you very much for any help you can give.
Click to expand...

Hi Paul

Fellow UK dweller here.....

I think I need to just warn you, if you are planning to overclock that Haswell, you will need a Liquid cooler.......

even with a h100i (top of the range cooler) Temps are high when under load, so I fear that shoots your budget out of the window.....

IMO with a £450 budget, drop the OC idea, still get the K chip as you can always add a cooler at a later date, I appreciate you have listed that big ass air cooler, but I watched a Youtube video the other day, and for the life of me I can not find it, they recommended a h80i min for cooling
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
3570K + ASUS LK ($100 cheaper) + CM 212 EVO ($30 cheaper)
If you are budget conscious. Same performance after overclocked as Haswell.

Save the extra for upgrades down the line that will really matter like GPU/SSD/more silent fans.
 
P

Paul_uk

Neo Member
Thank you for the quick reply Tak3n, thats what i thought. Think this might call for my daughter to play eeny meeny miney mo since i can't make my mind up lol. No but seriously i think the haswell would be the smart choice, and like you say i can get a better cooler down the line.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
Paul_uk said:
Thank you for the quick reply Tak3n, thats what i thought. Think this might call for my daughter to play eeny meeny miney mo since i can't make my mind up lol. No but seriously i think the haswell would be the smart choice, and like you say i can get a better cooler down the line.
Click to expand...

it is exactly what I done, it seems a lot of overclockers are saying 4.2 is about the max for haswell, for a safe OC, I think someone got 4.7, just about before it exploded lol, but they all needed excellent cooling

so the benefits for OC are not huge, 10% maybe and not that important for gaming, a GPU is far more importance
 
K

kharma45

Member
Paul_uk said:
Hello everyone, first post will be for some help please.

So basically my main gaming pc died a few years ago and ive been stuck using my htpc, i did upgrade the graphics card from an integrated hd4000 to a 7850 but the rest of the system is useless.

The main problem im facing is if a 4670k is a better upgrade than the 3570k, since i have heard that haswell chucks out a lot of heat which will limit overclocks. I also want it to be quiet since its basically still my htpc (in my bedroom) and the wife can't sleep with lots of noise.

Your Current Specs: AMD X2 240 / 2GB (DDR2 Value select) / Asus M4A785D-M Pro / AMD HD 7850 / Antec NeoPower 500W / Fractal Design R4.

Budget: £450 (UK) - Maximum.

Main Use: Gaming and pcsx2 emulation.

Monitor Resolution: 1080p (32" hdtv).

List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: Metro 2033 & Last Light (30 FPS is fine but would like all the eye candy on). PCSX2 - Would love to play through Rouge Galaxy as my PS2 is on its last legs.

Looking to reuse any parts?: Everything except for CPU/Mobo/Ram.

When will you build?: Next month.

Will you be overclocking?: Yes (the cpu).

The parts i have in mind are as follows:

4670k with a MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming mobo + 8GB Corsair Value Select (DDR3 1600) + Noctua NH-D14.

OR

3570k with a ASUS Sabertooth + 8GB Corsair Value Select (DDR3 1600) + Noctua NH-D14.

Price wise theres not a lot in it, so thats why im stumped.

Thank you very much for any help you can give.
Click to expand...

Save your money and go IB, Haswell ain't worth it

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£163.14 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£24.49 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: MSI Z77A-GD55 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£93.60 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£52.99 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £334.22
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-11 10:37 BST+0100)

Tak3n said:
it is exactly what I done, it seems a lot of overclockers are saying 4.2 is about the max for haswell, for a safe OC, I think someone got 4.7, just about before it exploded lol, but they all needed excellent cooling

so the benefits for OC are not huge, 10% maybe and not that important for gaming, a GPU is far more importance
Click to expand...

10% clock for clock, and we're not getting the same sort of clocks with Haswell so it's arguably not faster.
 
T

TheD

The Detective
killerpenguin said:
So the final part of my new rig came yesterday, built it all up and most everything is well.

One thing though, my Samsung 840 250gb SSD is getting a Windows Experience Index rating of only 5.9 (Windows 7 x64). I have no other hard drives installed. It's plugged into the SATA 1 port which is indicated as being the 6gb/s port. Motherboard is MSI Z77A-G45, CPU i5 3570k. Any idea what might be going on?

Haven't had a chance to run any other tools to get other readings yet.
Click to expand...

Join the club, I have the same problem with a M4 SSD.
It performs fine in benchmarks that I have run, so it is clearly just a windows being stupid.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
kharma45 said:
Save your money and go IB, Haswell ain't worth it

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£163.14 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler (£24.49 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: MSI Z77A-GD55 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£93.60 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£52.99 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £334.22
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-11 10:37 BST+0100)



10% clock for clock, and we're not getting the same sort of clocks with Haswell so it's arguably not faster.
Click to expand...

You will hear no argument from me there, it took me 3 days to decide whether to go Ivy or Haswell, as there seemed little difference in price......

it basically came down to one decision, was the next chip going to be onboard with the MB, and as there was no definite yes/no I decided rightly or wrongly (only time will tell) to go haswell

it was as close as that... a width of a hair decision
 
F

flotsam

Neo Member
Hazaro said:
Updated OP:
06/11/2013: Nvidia 320.18 WHQL Display Drivers CAUSING ISSUES. Uninstall them in safe mode and go back to 314.22(Download Win7/8-64Bit)
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that this isn't really an option for us 770 and 780 users as 314.22 doesn't seem to support the new cards (although I am only going by the descriptive text rather than trying them myself).

It's hard to know what to read into this situation because, of course, the forums and message boards will only attract those who are having issues rather than those for which the drivers are working perfectly. I imagine that whenever Nvidia release new drivers there will always be a subset of people who experience card failures within the same window and put one and one together to get three. The only real metric that would be of use would be the volume of people complaining their cards are dead with 320.18 compared to that with 314.22, which isn't something readily available...

I think my stance will be to carry on using the 320.18 drivers until I see something amiss and then take further action.
 
B

bro1

Banned
flotsam said:
I'm guessing that this isn't really an option for us 770 and 780 users as 314.22 doesn't seem to support the new cards (although I am only going by the descriptive text rather than trying them myself).

It's hard to know what to read into this situation because, of course, the forums and message boards will only attract those who are having issues rather than those for which the drivers are working perfectly. I imagine that whenever Nvidia release new drivers there will always be a subset of people who experience card failures within the same window and put one and one together to get three. The only real metric that would be of use would be the volume of people complaining their cards are dead with 320.18 compared to that with 314.22, which isn't something readily available...

I think my stance will be to carry on using the 320.18 drivers until I see something amiss and then take further action.
Click to expand...

The 320 drivers were awful for my old GTX 670. Artifacts galore. I have a 770 now and can't rollback. Any suggestions?
 
J

jiffy38

Member
After that Sony conference and low price point it may have killed my desire to shell out 1000 more for the PC build. Anyone have any big selling points that justify the huge added cost?
 
Garou

Garou

Member
So I finally got my hands on a cheap Maximus V Gene, upgrading from a simple H61 board and have two questions:

1. Overclock by hand, or by using one of the presets in the Bios (4.2/4.5/4.8GHz)? CPU is a 2500K.

2. LucidLogixMVP is off by default, does that do any good? My GPU is a GTX670.
 
K

kharma45

Member
jiffy38 said:
After that Sony conference and low price point it may have killed my desire to shell out 1000 more for the PC build. Anyone have any big selling points that justify the huge added cost?
Click to expand...

You don't need to spend $1400 for a good PC, even one at half that will be good. Plus with a PC remember it's not just games, it's for work too amongst other things. Games are cheap too, can be up to half the price of a console version at launch.

Garou said:
So I finally got my hands on a cheap Maximus V Gene, upgrading from a simple H61 board and have two questions:

1. Overclock by hand, or by using one of the presets in the Bios (4.2/4.5/4.8GHz)? CPU is a 2500K.

2. LucidLogixMVP is off by default, does that do any good? My GPU is a GTX670.
Click to expand...

Do it yourself to get best results. I'd leave Lucid turned off.
 
H

HoosTrax

Member
jiffy38 said:
After that Sony conference and low price point it may have killed my desire to shell out 1000 more for the PC build. Anyone have any big selling points that justify the huge added cost?
Click to expand...
Eh consoles are toys.

I use my PC for other things as well, like video editing+encoding (Youtube stuff), programming, productivity (office stuff). The first two of those require a PC with a beefy processor anyway. The cost of the discrete GPU is the only additional cost above and beyond that.

---

What do you guys know about these low profile Crucial sticks that NewEgg is giving away for free with some motherboards (Ballistix Sport)? Are they garbage?

(odd that they're just giving you a single stick...I guess they expect you to buy the second one yourself)
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
jiffy38 said:
After that Sony conference and low price point it may have killed my desire to shell out 1000 more for the PC build. Anyone have any big selling points that justify the huge added cost?
Click to expand...

I use to feel that way, but you are looking at it with slighly blinkered vision (no offence meant)

it is the games consoles will never get that I love my PC for... the one where unless steam exsisted they would never get made, I will list a few

Payday 1+2
Chilvary
Swapper
Gunpoint
Natural Selection 2
Trackmania
Arma 2 + 3 + Zombie
Rising Storm
Primal Carnage

They are all recent games that have been in my mind bloody good, and I would of missed a load as well, a few of those games are born out of love sweat and tears from the Dev..

Consoles will never get that
 
A

AliceInJam

Member
Hazaro said:
This is super late, but doing a hard reset usually fixes problems (or you forgot to plug in the 8 pin mobo power). Alternatively the default Video got changed to a different video out (closet port to mobo is usually #1, or it might be labelled on your GPU).

Hard Reset:
Turn off PC. Wait 15s.
Switch PSU off. Wait 15s.
Hold power button for 15s. Wait 15s.
Turn PSU on. Wait 15s.
Power on PC.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply man! I tried the Hard Reset and it didn't fix the issue, but I did some more digging and I think I know what the issue is. Is it possible the the Mobo defaulted the video output through my graphics card since it is in the PCI-e slot ( I was connecting to the monitor through the back panel on the mobo before)?? If that is the case I could use the VGA to DVI adapted and connect straight to the GPU instead of through the mobo.

Does that make sense? Is it possible to output video from the mobo with a graphics card connected through pci-e? would you even need or want to? lol sorry for all the question. first time build so some of these things might be "duh" questions but what can ya do!!
 
C

cory64

Member
So everything with my new build went fine, booted, managed to switch to AHCI without any issues, but the NIC doesn't seem to be working even after online drivers and my GPU isn't being recognized. Board is an ASRock Z87 Pro3.
 
W

Whiteshirt

Member
flotsam said:
I'm guessing that this isn't really an option for us 770 and 780 users as 314.22 doesn't seem to support the new cards (although I am only going by the descriptive text rather than trying them myself).

It's hard to know what to read into this situation because, of course, the forums and message boards will only attract those who are having issues rather than those for which the drivers are working perfectly. I imagine that whenever Nvidia release new drivers there will always be a subset of people who experience card failures within the same window and put one and one together to get three. The only real metric that would be of use would be the volume of people complaining their cards are dead with 320.18 compared to that with 314.22, which isn't something readily available...

I think my stance will be to carry on using the 320.18 drivers until I see something amiss and then take further action.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm in the same position. Anyway...it seems its killing previous generation cards but I'm not sure about this.
 
L

Like the hat?

Banned
So is Haswell worth it? I have $1400 absolute maximum to play with, but that has to include a monitor and everything. The only thing it doesn't need to include is Windows

I'm way overwhelmed.

Right now, I'm thinking of just building the one listed as Excellent - Best Overall in the Hazaro list.
 
K

kennah

Member
Like the hat? said:
So is Haswell worth it? I have $1400 absolute maximum to play with, but that has to include a monitor and everything. The only thing it doesn't need to include is Windows

I'm way overwhelmed.

Right now, I'm thinking of just building the one listed as Excellent - Best Overall in the Hazaro list.
Click to expand...

Go with Ivy. Better back for your buck and you will have an easier time finding deals.




In other news, been trying to post this for hours.

Photo%202013-06-11%2012%2024%2042.jpg
 
K

kharma45

Member
So that AMD FX-9590 then. 5GHz and 220w TDP. Who on earth is going to buy that? The only people I can think of are either die hard AMD fans or people who want to dick wave with massive clock speeds from it.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
kharma45 said:
So that AMD FX-9590 then. 5GHz and 220w TDP. Who on earth is going to buy that? The only people I can think of are either die hard AMD fans or people who want to dick wave with massive clock speeds from it.
Click to expand...
You mean if there's any OC overhead to be had.
lostsupper said:
I'm building in a R4 case. What are my best options for high airflow fans? Noise is not really an issue.

I asked this some months ago while building in a Define Mini. I went with the Scythe gt-15 that were recommended and was very happy. Is this still the way to go? Aesthetically, I like the Corsair SP120 high performance, but have no idea if they're any good.
Click to expand...
SP120s are for radiators and heatsinks. AF120s are for case airflow. Yes, they are definitely good.
HoosTrax said:
I...I must have lost all perspective hanging out in this thread. I didn't realize that $499 was a lot for a entire "system", considering $500 for a video card seems reasonably priced in my book.
Click to expand...
I know, right?
jiffy38 said:
After that Sony conference and low price point it may have killed my desire to shell out 1000 more for the PC build. Anyone have any big selling points that justify the huge added cost?
Click to expand...
Play games at any resolution you want.

Play games at any refresh rate/frame time you want. 33.3ms frame times not good enough? Want that 16.7? How about 8.3ms frame times at 120Hz?

Free online.

Cheap games.

Content any way you want it.

The ultimate multitasking machine. You can't be on GAF, be playing a game, watching a stream, and do taxes on a console.

Fully backwards compatible.

Awesome exclusives.

It's pretty much this: if you are an enthusiast gamer, PC is objectively a better platform. Every tiny bit of it can be tweaked to be exactly what you want it to be. You're not at the mercy of what devs decide runs well. But, as an enthusiast gamer, it should never be a question of either/or.

I know I'll be buying a PS4 to complement my Vita day 1.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Vita is amazing. I play it when running benchmarks. Have something like 50 hours into P4G and I *hate* JRPGs. Plus Super Stardust Delta.

Every part of the device just oozes quality. I loves it.
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
Woot, my Data Vac came. Love it. Question for people that own it: Is it normal for the Data Vac to get hot? Also, which attachment do you usually use? I'm thinking the long small stem is the safest to use.
 
H

HoosTrax

Member
CreepingFear said:
Woot, my Data Vac came. Love it. Question for people that own it: Is it normal for the Data Vac to get hot?
Click to expand...
How loud is it?

ochobit said:
So that explains why my 670 decided to die.
Click to expand...
Are people being serious with this, or just blowing it out of proportion? I understand the instability thing, like I mentioned before, I got stuck with my friend's GPU for the weekend troubleshooting this. But literally kill? How? By what means? Because I haven't seen any evidence of fans being stopped, or overvoltage being applied.
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
HoosTrax said:
How loud is it?


Are people being serious with this, or just blowing it out of proportion? I understand the instability thing, like I mentioned before, I got stuck with my friend's GPU for the weekend troubleshooting this. But literally kill? How? By what means? Because I haven't seen any evidence of fans being stopped, or overvoltage being applied.
Click to expand...

It's about as loud as a vacuum cleaner.

I have the 320.18 driver installed. I let you know if it kills my gpu.
 
H

HoosTrax

Member
Wait just how big is this thing? Because I got the impression looking at pictures of it that it's roughly the same size as a can of air. I hope it's not like propane tank-sized, because I was considering getting one, but not if it's huge.
 
K

kharma45

Member
mkenyon said:
Vita is amazing. I play it when running benchmarks. Have something like 50 hours into P4G and I *hate* JRPGs. Plus Super Stardust Delta.

Every part of the device just oozes quality. I loves it.
Click to expand...

Each to their own I guess. It doesnt have much for me to justify it even with them sharply dropping in price here. Seems sort of dead and an afterthought from Sony.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
HoosTrax said:
Wait just how big is this thing? Because I got the impression looking at pictures of it that it's roughly the same size as a can of air. I hope it's not like propane tank-sized, because I was considering getting one, but not if it's huge.
Click to expand...
It's a miniature air compressor, pretty small.
kharma45 said:
Each to their own I guess. It doesnt have much for me to justify it even with them sharply dropping in price here. Seems sort of dead and an afterthought from Sony.
Click to expand...
I get that. Being a DINK makes these sorts of justifications a bit easier to swallow. I don't think I would have bought it if I were on a tighter budget, but it's definitely been my #2 most played device since I bought it during Black Friday.
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
HoosTrax said:
Wait just how big is this thing? Because I got the impression looking at pictures of it that it's roughly the same size as a can of air. I hope it's not like propane tank-sized, because I was considering getting one, but not if it's huge.
Click to expand...

Here is some perspective. Sorry about the crappy photo. I'm no photographer and I have crappy lighting.

photo.JPG
 
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