Support NeoGAF

[cornerman]

It will be interesting.

I think a lot of the success in North America was built upon both an initial year lead and the PS3's terrible pricing. It let them build up a base of consumers that led to something of a bandwagon effect, so that even when the systems reached general parity in terms of software support, price and features, the 360 would still be the more appealing system due to wanting the same system your friends already had.

Technically launching at a similar time should negate such an effect, but whether or not this effect carries across the generational transition will also be interesting to observe. E.g. if a person buys a new XBOX presumably they'll still be able to play COD:Ghosts with the larger NA installed base and/or with their friends that don't jump in to the next gen yet; with the same going for the PlayStation.

I agree. There's no doubt MS will have some wave of enthusiasm to ride into this new generation, but how much? Everyone re-examines the competition at each new generational cycle (they pay attention is a way of putting it I guess). Given what we expect for pricing, I think its still the hardcore that'll be there that first year. I would assume they'll be the ones who pay the most attention, so unless there's some new feature to entice what we call casual gamers...its the hardcore that these company need to convince. Its really an interesting situation to me, because there's alot of variables at play:

new ip vs. old ip: we've got 3rd parties putting out the biggest games of the last gen right at the launch of these consoles. With limited dollars are folks going to try the new IP, or stick with the BFs, ACs, CoDs, etc? If they do, maybe folks just stick with the Xbox in NA cause it feels like an extension of their current experience.

 

[Shayan]

I see no HW sales numbers.

Sarcasm! There is no SW sales since no one owns the HW . How hard is it to understand ?

Europe is all PS3 and will be more like a ps4 land , unless Nintendo makes a comeback

A delayed Euro launch for MS could mean nothing though , since they might be fully focused on US, having known the probable outcome of the other 2 regions

 

[GavinGT]

SW sales numbers, especially multiplatform titles, are generally reflective of HW install base.

But a weekly ordered list of SW sales isn't conclusive proof that "PS3 outsold x360 by a huge margin in PAL/europe". Besides, that's not even the impression I get when I look at those charts. I see more 360 games than PS3.

I'm not arguing that PS3 isn't outselling 360 in Europe, but I don't think it's "by a huge margin" and I don't think those lists support the assertion.

 

[Shayan]

But a weekly ordered list of SW sales isn't conclusive proof that "PS3 outsold x360 by a huge margin in PAL/europe". Besides, that's not even the impression I get when I look at those charts. I see more 360 games than PS3.

I'm not arguing that PS3 isn't outselling 360 in Europe, but I don't think it's "by a huge margin" and I don't think those lists support the assertion.

where do you see more x360 games than PS3 other than UK? thats the only chart where you see X360 games actually.

In some charts , no x360 game is even there . PS3 has outsold x360 by a huge margin in the PAL region

 

[GavinGT]

where do you see more x360 games than PS3 other than UK? thats the only chart where you see X360 games actually.

In some charts , no x360 game is even there . PS3 has outsold x360 by a huge margin in the PAL region

Sorry, the formatting led me to believe that the top list was overall. Fair enough, I see what you're saying. But I still think Sony's lead in Europe is slimmer than Microsoft's lead in the U.S. I doubt it's the huge gap you're making it out to be.

 

[Tyrax]

where do you see more x360 games than PS3 other than UK? thats the only chart where you see X360 games actually.

In some charts , no x360 game is even there . PS3 has outsold x360 by a huge margin in the PAL region

I actually want to hear more about these german, spanish, french, polish, etc charts.
Where do I find them?
The only ones I ever see on American blogs like joystiq, shacknews, etc is NPD (US), UK weekly, Japanese weekly, and sometimes Australian charts.

 

[LowEndTorque]

But a weekly ordered list of SW sales isn't conclusive proof that "PS3 outsold x360 by a huge margin in PAL/europe". Besides, that's not even the impression I get when I look at those charts. I see more 360 games than PS3.

I'm not arguing that PS3 isn't outselling 360 in Europe, but I don't think it's "by a huge margin" and I don't think those lists support the assertion.

My understanding is that the 360 advantage in the US and the PS3 advantage in Europe cancel each other out because the margins are so similar, while the PS3 advantage in Japan and the rest of the world is what has been giving Sony the edge in total global sales. It's the most plausible explanation for why PS3 has been outpacing 360 globally for the past few years.

 

[GavinGT]

My understanding is that the 360 advantage in the US and the PS3 advantage in Europe cancel each other out because the margins are so similar, while the PS3 advantage in Japan and the rest of the world is what has been giving Sony the edge in total global sales. It's the most plausible explanation for why PS3 has been outpacing 360 globally for the past few years.

I think it's more like Sony's leads in Europe + Japan cancel out (or more) Microsoft's lead in the U.S., and sales in the rest of the world are more or less equal.

 

[LowEndTorque]

I think it's more like Sony's leads in Europe + Japan cancel out (or more) Microsoft's lead in the U.S., and sales in the rest of the world are more or less equal.

I don't know. The 360 was ahead of the PS3 ww by around 6 million units or so at one point. Last I heard that gap is less than 1 million now. For that to have happened there has to be a significant gap in a major market somewhere considering how well the 360 does in the US. There just doesn't seem to be a definitive source to tell us how that gap closed, so we can only surmise.

 

[Mik_Pad]

I actually want to hear more about these german, spanish, french, polish, etc charts.
Where do I find them?
The only ones I ever see on American blogs like joystiq, shacknews, etc is NPD (US), UK weekly, Japanese weekly, and sometimes Australian charts.

I saw this thread the other day:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=546752&highlight=nintendo

maybe it helps.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I think it's more like Sony's leads in Europe + Japan cancel out (or more) Microsoft's lead in the U.S., and sales in the rest of the world are more or less equal.

Perhaps overall, but not if you consider the fact that the Xbox 360 has been on the market for 1-1.5 years longer than the PS3.

 

[Tyrax]

I saw this thread the other day:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=546752&highlight=nintendo

maybe it helps.

Thanks.

The source of information for the "wide margin" of PS3s in Europe is ... Nintendo?

 

[Mik_Pad]

Thanks.

The source of information for the "wide margin" of PS3s in Europe is ... Nintendo?

I'm not savvy on the subject but I think if Nintendo put that charts out it's reliable.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I'm not savvy on the subject but I think if Nintendo put that charts out it's reliable.

Nintendo charts are reliable, but they're don't represent all of Europe, so they don't give you a full picture.

 

[Can Crusher]

Perhaps overall, but not if you consider the fact that the Xbox 360 has been on the market for 1-1.5 years longer than the PS3.

Which doesn't matter one bit as far as estimated revenue goes for software publishers. The difference in pace is minimal.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Which doesn't matter one bit as far as estimated revenue goes for software publishers. The difference in pace is minimal.

Pace is important because it represents growth.

It also gives us a baseline estimate for how next-gen may turn out, especially since both consoles are rumored to be releasing in the same quarter.

 

[Tyrax]

Here is the 2013 picture:

Is that a wide margin?

 

[GavinGT]

Here is the 2013 picture:

Is that a wide margin?

Xbox 360: 95 pixels long
PS3: 133 pixels long

It's a sizeable difference, but not quite what some make it out to be.

 

[Mik_Pad]

I thinks this gives a better idea of the margin:

Repeating my post:

So, using 2012 Q1 weekly sales from Nintendo, the info where they said the European market decreased 29% in 2013 Q1, and the market share, I find these numbers for European sales estimated by Nintendo for Jan, Feb and Mar:

	 2013Q1	   2012Q1
PS3	814,000	  950,000
360	585,000	  698,000
3DS	474,000	  595,000
PSP	290,000	  375,000
WII	222,000	  581,000
PSV	145,000	  394,000
WIU	122,000	
NDS	 38,000	  196,500

But take these with a pile of salt.

If anyone would like to do the same Math and see if the results are similar. =P

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Xbox 360: 95 pixels long
PS3: 133 pixels long

It's a sizeable difference, but not quite what some make it out to be.

40% difference is fairly large.

The difference would be larger if it included all of Europe + Emerging markets + Canada

 

[Tyrax]

I thinks this gives a better idea of the margin:

So are we talking recent sales margins, or lifetime margins?

 

[GavinGT]

So are we talking recent sales margins, or lifetime margins?

Trying to glean lifetime margins from the available information.

 

[Mik_Pad]

So are we talking recent sales margins, or lifetime margins?

Recent.

 

[gbovo]

I love looking at vintage developer pictures. Some of the old school Miyamoto / Iwata pictures are totally off the wall awesome as well.

I see what u did thar...

 

[specialguy]

Sarcasm! There is no SW sales since no one owns the HW . How hard is it to understand ?

Europe is all PS3 and will be more like a ps4 land , unless Nintendo makes a comeback

A delayed Euro launch for MS could mean nothing though , since they might be fully focused on US, having known the probable outcome of the other 2 regions

it's not all ps3, more like along the rough lines of 2-1 or something in continental europe. it's not like japan or something.

 

[Apath]

Heavy rain was an interesting experiment but the character acting and dialogue ruined the experience really just a longwinded QTE

LBP is a mario clone with editing tools

they're new IP in the branding however the concepts of gameplay are not really new

my comments are referring to next gen anyway based off of fact and rumor because the thread is talking about why Durango is behind in game production.

Whatever either company has done in this gen is irrelevant to the next gen. new systems = clean slate

Wat. You've either never played LBP, Mario, or both.

 

[cornerman]

Heavy rain was an interesting experiment but the character acting and dialogue ruined the experience really just a longwinded QTE

LBP is a mario clone with editing tools

they're new IP in the branding however the concepts of gameplay are not really new

my comments are referring to next gen anyway based off of fact and rumor because the thread is talking about why Durango is behind in game production.

Whatever either company has done in this gen is irrelevant to the next gen. new systems = clean slate

I'm going to assume you either didn't play these games or just didn't like them (well within your right). I'll leave others to make the case as to why Heavy Rain and LBP are games outside the norm regardless of whether they're your cup of tea. I also realize that the games listed are usually cited as the cornerstones of the playstation experience when paired next to xbox's cornerstones (Gears, Forza, Halo, Fable). What I mean is most folks try to pair it up tit for tat across the games that "move" units.

Assuming you're not a Playstation fan (and you very well may be), but assuming you're not. Sales figures aside, Sony has put out a number of games of varying genres that won't pair up with Xbox's offerings. I'm not talking about tastes, you could very well be disinterested in all these genre offerings (well within your right), but their existence and Sony's effort to deliver them shouldn't be dismissed...which is likely why folks are beginning to respond to you the way they have.

Sony's strength/appeal lies in their diversity. At the forefront/at launch, their lineup may appear to be "anemic" to some gamers because the popular genres (FPS for example) will share space with other genres that aren't as popular anymore (Platformers for example). MS may have several popular genres at the forefront and appear to be stronger. And for particular tastes, they may be. Take the current lineup...KZ is in the shooter space and Infamous is in the action space, IP we are familiar with but will hopefully see some compelling changes for the new gen. Those are 2 genres the industry really focuses on, so its easy to walk away with "same ol same ol". Drive Club is a new IP, but car games are all in the feel, and we know what to expect usually. Knack is one of the genres that most folks will write off as "kiddy" as its doesn't represent those popular genres. But know that there's a group of gamers pumped for a new platformer. I would bet that in alot of gamers minds, Sony really showed 2 games that they'd "pay attention" to...and those 2 games were from last gen.

But here's the appeal of Sony, its knowing the long game. Its knowing that it started with Ratchet, and ended up with Sly, LBP, PS Allstars, and Puppeteer. It started with Resistance, UC and Killzone, but you got Infamous, Starhawk/warhawk, MAG, Socom, and Demon's Souls, and the upcoming Last of Us. It started with Flow, and you got Flower, Journey, Heavy Rain, Papo and Yo, Unfinished Swan and upcoming Beyond. You got cart racers, and strange non-game art weirdness. Some of those games didn't burn up the charts, some of those games I didn't like, but the point is Sony makes an effort..and in some cases funds projects most companies wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

So when some folks look at the lineup, they aren't just looking at it for what it is, they're also expecting to see the same output they got for the PS3. Cause those same studios are around (plus they've grown) and Sony's philosophy hasn't changed (they're still about diversity and new games). So yes we'll see some sequels (franchises teams understand so its one less thing to worry about when building new engines maybe, or because they can pull in some dedicated fans initially)..yes some of those games may not be your or my cup of tea...but there will always be new IP...which just means another chance at me liking/loving/experiencing something new.

I'm a big fan of Sony for sure. But like you I don't think MS is gonna come out with just the same IP either. There will be a returning cast, but there will be new IP that the hardcore cares about. And yes there will be Kinect games too. I have no interest in Kinect, but I do feel they need to follow through with it now that its supposely matured. If there is any fun to be had, we'll never know if someone doesn't push or enough people don't push. My question for Microsoft isn't regarding the initial launch...its the long game. Id don't suspect they are stupid, surely they know they have to appeal to the hardcore. Surely they know they need new franchises (heck everyone is coming with new IP). But will they keep pushing 3 years in.

 

[trmas]

Expect MS to have four or more FPS games at launch, not a lot of diversity. Their software output has been crap for a while now - it is the new management

 

[Melchiah]

Not surprising considering what we've heard of MS's next gen offerings and their focus is working on new original IP while all we've seen from Sony are more sequels of same ol same ol.

MS seems to be focusing more on new ideas which are going to take longer to iterate on and be the more risky route while Sony is simply playing the safe bet giving us more of the same only marginally prettier. at least going by what they've shown so far.

So what new did Microsoft bring to the table when they moved from the first Xbox to the 360? Halo, Fable, Project Gotham Racing, and Forza were all sequels. Kameo, Dead Rising, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears of War and Alan Wake were new IPs, and five of them weren't even developed by Microsoft studios.

 

[Iacobellis]

So what new did Microsoft bring to the table when they moved from the first Xbox to the 360? Halo, Fable, Project Gotham Racing, and Forza were all sequels. Kameo, Dead Rising, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Gears of War and Alan Wake were new IPs, and five of them weren't even developed by Microsoft studios.

Crackdown.

 

[jayu26]

40% difference is fairly large.

The difference would be larger if it included all of Europe + Emerging markets + Canada

Canada is Xbox territory like US

 

[Melchiah]

Crackdown.

Forgot that one, but Realtime Worlds was also an independent studio.

 

[DEADEVIL]

40% difference is fairly large.

The difference would be larger if it included all of Europe + Emerging markets + Canada

We see Canada every single NPD. You can definitely glean what's going on there.

We all know what happened this gen, not sure why it's a mystery at this point.


MS is the most successful in US/Canada, competitive in Europe and on existent in Japan.

But, MS has not needed Japan at all to have the huge success they have enjoyed with it's key software.

Even if they have a repeat performance next gen and Sony is leading, the software sales will tell the story.

Which is why MS is in control of it's own destiny and if they deliver at E3, we are simply going to see the same HD twin race that we currently see today, with both consoles successful in their own right.

 

[Sounddeli]

Of course there is delay. Dev are late getting hardware (with optimized software) because of lower than expected yields with oban. They had to make due with sdk with close app hardware. The first batch of Infinity games will not use the hardware optimized at all with the move engines. Games literally will run off the gpus with 6 display plains ( no crossfire and no Oban optimization.) the reason there is a delay is for testing on final hardware which devs are only recently receiving. Oban will be worked into the infinity sdks ( final sdks) so there is no learning curve. Any soc can be used to aid another with this oban blitter blasting every thing around, except locked down cores for system usage to run parllel apps ( facebook, ie, netflix ect). But that will be for future projects.

Interesting, but I thought there were only 3 display planes??

 

[DieH@rd]

Interesting, but I thought there were only 3 display planes??

Yes. OS, HUD and Game.

 

[kittoo]

Of course there is delay. Dev are late getting hardware (with optimized software) because of lower than expected yields with oban. They had to make due with sdk with close app hardware. The first batch of Infinity games will not use the hardware optimized at all with the move engines. Games literally will run off the gpus with 6 display plains ( no crossfire and no Oban optimization.) the reason there is a delay is for testing on final hardware which devs are only recently receiving. Oban will be worked into the infinity sdks ( final sdks) so there is no learning curve. Any soc can be used to aid another with this oban blitter blasting every thing around, except locked down cores for system usage to run parllel apps ( facebook, ie, netflix ect). But that will be for future projects.

Wait...what? Crossfire? WTH am I reading? Did I miss something?

 

[madmackem]

Ms cant afford to delay the nextbox in the uk, this market is fickle as fuck and seems to swap sides every generation, ms holds it atm but a delay here i can see a large chunk swinging back to sony.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Are Oban Yields behind this?

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/yields-could-delay-xbox-720-beyond-planned-september-2013-launch/0102438

Anyone got any insight?


This is why it is laughable that anyone thinks the system will radically change before launch... they were proving the chips LAST YEAR.

 

[pswii60]

Are Oban Yields behind this?

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/yields-could-delay-xbox-720-beyond-planned-september-2013-launch/0102438

Anyone got any insight?


This is why it is laughable that anyone thinks the system will radically change before launch... they were proving the chips LAST YEAR.

This thread is about game production, not hardware production.

 

[specialguy]

it's not called oban, charlie was wrong about everything (for example, he said it was an IBM CPU in that same article, which I think said "Oban" went in to mass production in late 2011)

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/18/xbox-nextxbox-720-chips-in-production/

So, time for a little speculation. Oban is being made by IBM primarily, so that almost definitively puts to bed the idea of an x86 CPU that has been floating. We said we were 99+% sure that the XBox Next/720 is a Power PC CPU plus an ATI GCN/HD7000/Southern Islands GPU, and with this last data point, we are now confident that it is 99.9+%. Why? Several licensing agreements that cover what can be made where will enrich a fleet of lawyers if Oban is x86, but do not preclude the possibility entirely, hence the last .1%.

LOL Charlie, And people still pretend he's right on the bad news.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Are Oban Yields behind this?

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/yields-could-delay-xbox-720-beyond-planned-september-2013-launch/0102438

Anyone got any insight?


This is why it is laughable that anyone thinks the system will radically change before launch... they were proving the chips LAST YEAR.

I doubt SemiAccurate really know anything about that

 

[itsgreen]

it's not called oban, charlie was wrong about everything (for example, he said it was an IBM CPU in that same article, which I think said "Oban" went in to mass production in late 2011)

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/18/xbox-nextxbox-720-chips-in-production/



LOL Charlie, And people still pretend he's right on the bad news.

Could also be a new part for 360 refresh or something. Could be that he was just plain wrong.

 

[ekim]

Interesting, but I thought there were only 3 display planes??

Where's that quote from?

 

[eso76]

Yes. OS, HUD and Game.

i was thinking the different display planes are also there so that the dvr-share function can capture the 'game' plane only, with no hud and notification overlays.
Just a thought.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Are Oban Yields behind this?

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/yields-could-delay-xbox-720-beyond-planned-september-2013-launch/0102438

Anyone got any insight?

This is why it is laughable that anyone thinks the system will radically change before launch... they were proving the chips LAST YEAR.

Oban is the IBM Xbox 360 CPU or SoC (unclear) and was taped out Dec 2011 so Charlie gets a 2 out of three but it's not for the Xbox 720. This has already been discussed on NeoGAF and other sites:

http://67.227.255.239/forum/showpost.php?p=52524705&postcount=74

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.p...box-Power-PC&p=7912482&viewfull=1#post7912482

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180631&postcount=256

Charlie assumed Oban was the Xbox 720 Kryptos and in trying to explain the production quantities being produced with it being a year too early for the Xbox 720, started saying yield issues were to blame. This is where he gets a deserved knock.

I had some speculation that Oban (large blank Japanese gold coin) was the interposer for the Xbox 720 and possibly the PS4 too. That's now obviously wrong but Oban might still contain/need an interposer but active interposers are more expensive to build. Anyway the Xbox 360 CPU or SoC is built on 32nm SOI and rumors of a Xbox 360/ARM combination similar to the Xbox 720 and PS4 containing ARM for low power would have a ARM 28nm HPM chip connected to a 32nm SOI chip (interposer might be needed).

PS4 Thebe and Xbox 360 Kryptos are 28nm LP silicon while most performance ARM chips are now 28nm on HPM silicon. This might be why the PS4 has a "Second Custom Chip".

 

[KillerMan91]

Sorry, the formatting led me to believe that the top list was overall. Fair enough, I see what you're saying. But I still think Sony's lead in Europe is slimmer than Microsoft's lead in the U.S. I doubt it's the huge gap you're making it out to be.

Combined Road's numbers with NPD and MC for Jan-Mar.

	US+EU+JP	US	EU	JP
3DS	2,296,000	564,000	474,000	1,258,000
PS3	1,793,000	675,000	814,000	304,000
X360	1,439,000	844,000	585,000	10,000
PSV	587,000		106,000	145,000	336,000
WIU	539,000		190,000	122,000	227,000
WII	538,000		290,000	222,000	26,000
PSP	527,000		27,000	290,000	210,000
NDS	295,000		257,000	38,000

So far this year even without Japan PS3 has sold sligly more (1,489 million vs. 1,429 million). Of course lifetime the lead in Europe for PS3 is smaller than the lead for X360 in US but that is pretty much because PS3 launched one and half year later than X360 in Europe. So nowadays the the US lead of X360 is canceled by the EU lead of PS3 and Japan and developing countries are the reason why PS3 is constantly catching X360 in lifetime sales.

 

[specialguy]

So far this year even without Japan PS3 has sold sligly more (1,489 million vs. 1,429 million). Of course lifetime the lead in Europe for PS3 is smaller than the lead for X360 in US but that is pretty much because PS3 launched one and half year later than X360 in Europe. So nowadays the the US lead of X360 is canceled by the EU lead of PS3 and Japan and developing countries are the reason why PS3 is constantly catching X360 in lifetime sales.

we dont know the sales in developing countries. sounds like some kind of invisible boogeyman.

without ps3-only shipping number coming out of sony for a while, we really dont have much idea of ww sales. the difference is not much whoevers winning. as i recall 360 shipped more in calender in 2011, in 2012 sony changed to not report ps3 separate.

ps3 might be "winning" worldwide but the difference is small on a year total basis. Ps3 wins by more in Jan-Oct, 360 wins Nov-Dec.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Oban is the IBM Xbox 360 CPU or SoC (unclear) and was taped out Dec 2011 so Charlie gets a 2 out of three but it's not for the Xbox 720. This has already been discussed on NeoGAF and other sites:

http://67.227.255.239/forum/showpost.php?p=52524705&postcount=74

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.p...box-Power-PC&p=7912482&viewfull=1#post7912482

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180631&postcount=256

Charlie assumed Oban was the Xbox 720 Kryptos and in trying to explain the production quantities being produced with it being a year too early for the Xbox 720, started saying yield issues were to blame. This is where he gets a deserved knock.

I had some speculation that Oban (large blank Japanese gold coin) was the interposer for the Xbox 720 and possibly the PS4 too. That's now obviously wrong but Oban might still contain/need an interposer but active interposers are more expensive to build. Anyway the Xbox 360 CPU or SoC is built on 32nm SOI and rumors of a Xbox 360/ARM combination similar to the Xbox 720 and PS4 containing ARM for low power would have a ARM 28nm HPM chip connected to a 32nm SOI chip (interposer might be needed).

PS4 Thebe and Xbox 360 Kryptos are 28nm LP silicon while most performance ARM chips are now 28nm on HPM silicon. This might be why the PS4 has a "Second Custom Chip".

Jeff do you think new Xbox 360 is shown in May or at E3?

 

[Thorgal]

So far this year even without Japan PS3 has sold sligly more (1,489 million vs. 1,429 million). Of course lifetime the lead in Europe for PS3 is smaller than the lead for X360 in US but that is pretty much because PS3 launched one and half year later than X360 in Europe. So nowadays the the US lead of X360 is canceled by the EU lead of PS3 and Japan and developing countries are the reason why PS3 is constantly catching X360 in lifetime sales.

heh .wait till they can ship consoles to china.
their sales will explode.

but it also beggs the question

its pretty much clear that japan has rejected the Xbox brand.
will the rest of Asia take the same stance or will they embrace it?

 

[HocusPocus]

Best thing possible then for Xbox 720 or whatever they want to call it. They need to give up the fantasy that there is profitability with a lot of first party development. This last generation had the best experiences with 3rd parties. Incentivise, encourage, and fund their efforts as they have the talent. Awesome news that they will put more focus on 3rd parties.