You're moving goalposts slightly.
Depends on the Multiplat.
That would lean more towards the Xbox 360.
The last 2 years the PS3 and Xbox 360 are neck in neck in overall sales.
Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]
- Thread starter shinobi602
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You're moving goalposts slightly.
Depends on the Multiplat.
That would lean more towards the Xbox 360.
The last 2 years the PS3 and Xbox 360 are neck in neck in overall sales.
It should be around the price of the ps4.
About the same specs, both have a camera in every box.
pharmboy044
Member
I don't know. I think read someone here mention that Sony might not be including the camera due to them increasing the RAM.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
an expensive console is welcome if the price justifies what is in the box....at least for me at least.
ii Stryker
Banned
E3 2013 is going to be very interesting to say the least.
So far from what we know of all 3 MS seems the most interesting to me. They're in better shape then both Sony and Nintendo who appear to be pandering to their respective fan bases where MS appears to be building a device that fits everyone's needs.
So far from what we know of all 3 MS seems the most interesting to me. They're in better shape then both Sony and Nintendo who appear to be pandering to their respective fan bases where MS appears to be building a device that fits everyone's needs.
NoLootBoxDev
Member
the main concer for everyone should be games, not who have a DVR or apps built into the console. At the end we are gamers, and gaming should be first for us.
The games will be there and will be the primary focus. That should be a given really.
I agree to some extent, but Microsoft is going to make sure that this thing also is the best non-gaming entertainment box as well. Those two ideas don't have to really conflict though.
Either way I think the point is moot because I believe they'll bring the games at the debut and E3.
ii Stryker
Banned
If games are what's most important to you then more power to you. But don't presume to tell me what I want or should be concerned about
I have the need for a device that offers more then simply games. My entertainment interests and my interest for a living room electronics device go well beyond just gaming and MS seems to be giving me just that. Games are important however Nintendo are the only ones with the quality IP and their device is laughably behind the times. My gaming interests lie primarily with third party software so its going to come down to who gets more of the third party stuff first. We've all seen how that played out this gen and I don't look for that trend to change especially considering what this thread is about.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I find funny that now that both consoles are going to run on carbon copy silicon all the spec wars are fought over memory.
They aren't going to run "carbon silicon" - with the PS4s rumoured FLOPS advantage of about +50% over the Xbox Durango, it's clear which platform is going to be more capable.
But some people seem convinced about MS at least offering an equal memory system (which would be a great thing) - unfortunately, this seems highly unlikely.
SpartanN92
Banned
Double post....Sorry.
SpartanN92
Banned
Whoa Whoa... Don't go there. This isn't the thread for that.
specialguy
Banned
i doubt kinect is super expensive and odds are sony is including something somewhat similar anyway.
not to say ms will have superior specs but i dont really buy kinect as the reason.
specialguy
Banned
i'd much rather see 12gb of ddr3 and esram than 8gb gddr5. heck i'd rather probably even see 8gb ddr3 and esram than 8gb ddr5, and play the cost advantages, see what you can do with the esram latency, etc etc. i dont want equal. the cpu's are already the same, the more components are exactly the same the more boring it is.
also, xbox was likely at least 2x ps2 and it didn't even matter that much. the gap between ps4 and 720 as rumored will be smaller. xbox had twice the ram of ps2 (64mb vs 32), ps4 vs 720 both have 8gb.
It didn't matter because they came too late in the game for it to truly make a difference. People forget that era. Sony held all the chips in the PS2 era. They had the install base and the power.
They Xbox got better versions of some games, like Silent Hill 2, but PS2 was where the money was.
There is absolutely no boredom if the machines are as equal as possible. If you want excitement and a difference in 'components' buy a Wii.
12 GB is unnecessary, more bandwidth would be much more beneficial. Bigger performance differences (or challenges, for Durango development) only serve to increase multiplatform development cost, they won't do anything to better gameplay or games in general.
Latency is not a real concern with GDDR5, that's why we're very likely to see computers with a GDDR5 shared memory pool in the future (and DDR3 for more lower-end applications) - AMD is working on such a shared memory architecture with hUMA (which will be similar, but probably less capable than the PS4 Supercharged architecture) which we'll see at the end of 2013 with their Kaveri APUs. JEDEC is also working on a GDDR5 SO-DIMM specification for such purposes.
Many Xbox games performed noticeably better than their PS2s counterparts, even though the Xbox held a comparatively small part of the market and therefore developers probably didn't prioritise Xbox-specific improvements for their games.
BlazingDarkness
Member
'Pandering' lol, you mean catering?
Gemüsepizza
Member
Both consoles may have 8 GB RAM, but the amount which developers can use for games will likely vary, according to rumors it's 5-5.5GB (Xbox) vs 7.5GB (PS4), which would be quite substantial.
Baconsammy
Banned
At the end of the day, I'm a father, husband, and consumer of content. All content. If having one or two boxes connected to my TV enables me to get as much content that I and my family could want, then that's a win for me. Obviously the games are important, and there's been absolutely no signs that the Xbox will be lacking. In fact the rumors are suggesting that it's getting some pretty cool ones.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Oh, the games will be there...at first. Just like with the 360. But Microsoft has a history of abandoning gamers. They'll sucker in the hardcore with some moneyhats and some legitimately cool in house titles and then their strategy will shift dramatically from that. It's their history. Look at how Microsoft gave up on the Xbox after the 360 launched. Look at their software releases after they released Kinect.
ii Stryker
Banned
When you try to appease a vocal minority it comes off as pandering.
MS appears to be taking the blue skies approach next gen where Sony and Nintendo appear to be more one dimensional, at least when it comes to their respective launch strategies.
Baconsammy
Banned
You're starting to get ridiculous, especially considering we haven't seen anything from Microsoft yet. But if "Blue Skies" means "HDMI in for a TV receiver" to you, I really don't know what's exciting about that. Devices that provide media functionality are a dime a dozen, that's not going to get many people to buy a $500 machine: Microsoft will probably focus on the gamer as well.
For the PS4, Shuhei Yoshida has made clear that they are going to talk about "Apps" at a later date, and that the initial reveal was designed to appeal to the core audience of the PS4: The gamers who are sure to be the most interested in a video games console.
specialguy
Banned
Gemüsepizza;57391458 said:
yeah, that's the worst case. i happen to expect more like 7gb free at best on ps4, and interference at b3d says there is 1gb of the 3gb durango reserve that is in limbo not being used for anything currently. so it could end up 7-6 or even less.
but yeah worst case maybe 5-7.5. point is both machines ship with 8gb regardless any other differentiations are artificial.
I disagree, I think 12GB would be very beneficial and I hope it happens. Anyway keep in mind it would be 9GB usable (3 reserved) which is only a little above PS4.
I have heard one of devs top complaints about Durango to MS was the amount of OS reserve (2nd was lack of raw flops). Since it's rumored at 2 cores and 3GB, I doubt they're worried too much about freeing up one CPU core (especially since we hear SHAPE audio block lightens the load). So it means at least they'd like more than 5GB with certainty.
Oh, this again.
BlazingDarkness
Member
There's really no proof of any of that, you're being pretty presumptuous.
And I'm not sure it could be described a 'vocal minority' of people concerned about games first and foremost, when the price of investment for these consoles will be pretty steep - games are what matter.
Nobody knows what MS will offer which is such a gamechanger compared to the competition, people sing about apps and other stuff but what exactly? We don't know. A lot of consumers will be happy with more of the same (Netflix etc) there's no real proof there's any demand for anything more than that.
Just because MS (apparently) are moving towards the TV sector with their next console doesn't suddenly make it be so that the demand is there. They're offering a convergence device which may offer more functionality than a traditional console - it doesn't necessarily mean that the traditional games market has changed. We saw a similar thing when Nintendo branched out to the Wii 'casual' demographic by offering something different, and we all know that the demand for traditional systems remained.
Anyway, it's all conjecture. But claiming they are 'pandering to' and not 'catering for' is pretty silly.
Alex
Member
I don't really like much of anything game-wise from Microsoft anymore, I mean they make a wonderful box, probably the best, IMHO, if you just want one all-around console but their first party is so meek.
And it's sad, it used to be fucking amazing, they used to command some really fantastic franchises and now it's all just rotting. It'd be nice to see some older titles at least get drug back up for putting some good F2P kit on XBLA next gen to get the ball rolling. I have zero intentions of buying this console but even my attention would caught with updates to Crimson Skies or Midtown Madness.
And it's sad, it used to be fucking amazing, they used to command some really fantastic franchises and now it's all just rotting. It'd be nice to see some older titles at least get drug back up for putting some good F2P kit on XBLA next gen to get the ball rolling. I have zero intentions of buying this console but even my attention would caught with updates to Crimson Skies or Midtown Madness.
Beerman462
Member
I kind of understand what your saying, but if I buy a games console, I want the best games console I can buy. All the extra shit is extra. DVR? Current cable/sat providers have great multi-device DVRs. Netflix/Hulu=Roku or current PS360. I'm looking forward to the Nextbox reveal, but I don't see how one box that does DVR, Streaming, and games can sufficiently replace devices that already do it as good or maybe even better.
What about it? A couple Halo games, a couple Gears games, some Forza, Fable, and I think a Crackdown game about the same time as Kinect launched, though I admittedly don't know when in 2010 it actually debuted. That's excluding all the XBLA stuff they put out.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Specialguy these are some bad points your contending
Baconsammy
Banned
I have no idea what their intentions are when it comes to DVRs. If it's a main focus, I think they're idiots. Seems like more people are cutting the cable now, not moving towards it. With all the apps they currently offer on the 360, I don't need cable anymore. And what they don't have, I can get on my laptop. It would be an amazingly backwards-thinking move to embrace cable/satellite at this point. Maybe I'm out of touch with reality, but all the people I know are sick to death of cable bills.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Dispute what I said. It's exactly what happened with their past two consoles.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Agreed. I think the system which offers the best gaming related services is a more important factor. Basically, which of the two offers the best Xbox Live equivalent going into the generation is important - as that's partly what gave the 360 such a lead earlier on, people were tied to the system because their friends were on Live.
We've heard from Sony about the streaming thing, about recording 15 minutes(?) of gameplay and uploading them online, and having people jump into your games and spectators and whatnot - all sounds pretty neat. Now we wait and see what Microsoft offers.
Like what franchise were 'f-cking amazing' that makes them sad compared to now.
Yup. It's completely boring at this point
Baconsammy
Banned
Yes, by all means get into a list-war with the thread shitter. Jesus christ.
Beerman462
Member
I think the sharing of video game experiences is very important. I have two daughters. They both love Minecraft and they both love to watch Cupquake
That's the future and Sony/MS need to cash in on it.
ThisWreckage
Banned
With the original Xbox, there would be no list because they completely shut down development to focus on the 360. And the 360's software list is awfully paltry this year too. So it wouldn't take much of his time at all.
No, because we've danced this dance before and I don't wish to give you the attention again for such an asinine statement. You know what you said is bull.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
But, like, what if people disagree with you about what the Xbox 360 had to offer hardcore gamers? I didn't feel at all like the Xbox 360 was abandoned as far as titles that hardcore gamers can enjoy are concerned. There were plenty of solid games in a range of different genres on a far higher level than was ever present on the original Xbox.
I don't think it matters that Microsoft didn't release a bunch of new hardcore ip later into the gen. Since when is that a requirement? Microsoft released first party titles consistently all gen that a lot of people enjoyed and purchased in the millions, and those first party titles were always accompanied by a range of high quality third party titles. Just because you personally prefer another console's offerings does not somehow make the Xbox 360's inferior for everybody else.
He's not the only one using the "I want things to be different because it's interesting" argument. I really hate that train of thought. It has no basis in reality and is setting everyone that thinks that up for some serious disappointment.
Anytime someone mentions Microsoft turning their back on gamers I imagine Fragmaster from SA reading their posts. It is a pretty ridiculous statement to make.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-uTnqYHZ-I&list=PLA794CF274329AE93
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-uTnqYHZ-I&list=PLA794CF274329AE93
I think things will be different, but that is for things outside gaming. I don't see it affecting multiplats at all.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Well the original Xbox was losing MS a lot of money. I don't think we'll see the same this time around. They do have some great digital games coming out (State of Decay, LocoCycle for example). It wouldn't surprise me to see some new games announced at E3, especially if they're going to put out an Xbox Mini.
Fahrenheit
Banned
If it was anyone besides Kotaku I would believe it but being they have zero credibility and make thinks up for the hits I'll take this with a grain of salt. Won't even give them the hit to read the article.
Of course the performance difference will affect multiplatform games: "Multimedia" apps don't require much processing power, they would run equally well on a machine of much lower specifications.
Developers will have to deal with the differences and will have to find ways around some of the Durangos limitations: This will complicate development. That's why people are hoping for GDDR5, which isn't going to happen (at least I don't expect it to). The more similar these machines are, the more efficient development could be: Similarities are in our gamer's best interest.