Support NeoGAF

[BruceLeeRoy]

When I started lurking here in 2006, the forum seemed more aligned against Sony due to the rising negativity towards PS3 at the time. The first impression was dispelled over time when I saw, that it wasn't the common course of the forum. So, I can kinda understand how it might seem exactly the opposite now, when we're in between the PS4 and XB3 events.

Yeah it was definitely dark days for Sony on here and rightfully so.
I remember the only threads any of us were in was the Oblivion and Kameo threads. Sony threads were dead.

Xbox 360 first 4 years was nothing but AAA games though, and solidified its position to being THE HD console of choice for many people. Their first party studios may be scarce, but that won't stop AAA first party and exclusives from being on the 720.

That being said, some of the criticism is just bullshit.

I think the criticism that they won't have hardcore games is ludicrous, but they will have a stronger strategy for the casual market. That just makes sense.

 

[CaptainSlow]

They might not know what to do with it when it comes to games but I am betting the OS does some pretty incredible stuff now that it is completely integrated.

I'm actually looking forward to Kinect 2.0's use for OS navigation.

Kinect was fun to use on the 360 dash but it was held back by the hardware limitations in the Kinect itself and the 360. Hopefully with 2.0 there is greatly improved accuracy and zero input lag. I hope that instead of keeping your hand over the link you want Kinect to open for 5 seconds, it can track your finger's precise movements and you can use your hand like a mouse and "double tapping the air will open the tab/link/etc.

 

[Baconsammy]

When I started lurking here in 2006, the forum seemed more aligned against Sony due to the rising negativity towards PS3 at the time. The first impression was dispelled over time when I saw, that it wasn't the common course of the forum. So, I can kinda understand how it might seem exactly the opposite now, when we're in between the PS4 and XB3 events.

If you go into pretty much any thread dedicated to any one console or company, there's people complaining about being trolled. It's not limited to MS, Nintendo, or Sony. If you only hang out in threads about your company of choice, though, you might not see the bigger picture. I assume that's why some people think their console is being unfairly victimized.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Money is a big part but they are also a much smarter company when it comes to universal appeal.

When you first saw the Move what was going through every single one of our heads?

STAR WARS

You know what was going through Sonys?

SORCERER GUY!

You know what was going through Microsofts?

STAR WARS, DANCE CENTRAL, DISNEY ADVENTURES!

Microsoft gets it. Sony never will

No, Sony gets it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqkNPcUMffU

Who wouldn't want to buy a PS3 after watching that?

 

[Monty Mole]

Money is a big part but they are also a much smarter company when it comes to universal appeal.

When you first saw the Move what was going through every single one of our heads?

STAR WARS

You know what was going through Sonys?

SORCERER GUY!

You know what was going through Microsofts?

STAR WARS, DANCE CENTRAL, DISNEY ADVENTURES!

Microsoft gets it. Sony never will

Sony did release Dance Star for Move. And Harry Potter is/was popular. But both games sold very poorly in comparison to their Kinect counterparts due to... poor marketing.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I'm actually looking forward to Kinect 2.0's use for OS navigation.

Kinect was fun to use on the 360 dash but it was held back by the hardware limitations in the Kinect itself and the 360. Hopefully with 2.0 there is greatly improved accuracy and zero input lag. I hope that instead of keeping your hand over the link you want Kinect to open for 5 seconds, it can track your finger's precise movements and you can use your hand like a mouse and "double tapping the air will open the tab/link/etc.

Yeah me too. I think it has the potential to be what grabs all the headlines out of E3.

No, Sony gets it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqkNPcUMffU

Who wouldn't want to buy a PS3 after watching that?

Lol. Ahhh what a crazy time in gaming that was.

Sony did release Dance Star for Move. And Harry Potter is/was popular. But both games sold very poorly in comparison to their Kinect counterparts due to... poor marketing.

This perfectly proves my point.
If Sony had any idea WTF they were doing it would have been:

A HARRY POTTER GAME!

Its not just poor marketing its poor conceptualizing.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The PS4 is a very safe system for them.

This is probably the main reason I wasn't blown away by that February event. PS4 is a supercharged version of more of the same games plus that streaming stuff that you've been able to try on your PC for years already and some tacked-on seeming touch control addition. Also felt like it was too much talk and not enough show, and when they did show, it wasn't very exciting or new-enough for a new system. If MS is six months behind, what is Sony when their reveal showed us not very much that couldn't already have been destined for PS3 in some form? I'm kinda ready to have that same reaction to MS' show if we're seeing a majority of its time spent on tech demos, sequels, and philosophy. I hope MS is ready to do much more than that, but I'm guessing E3 will be the place for both to really show us why we should be excited by next-gen.

 

[dragonbane]

.

The light-bar doesn’t require the camera to function. It’s just a different way of identifying the player. In terms of using the LED [as in the Dualshock 3, with] numbers like 1, 2, 3 and 4, it looked a bit odd. The SCEI people wanted some smarter way of doing it, and the use of a full-colour LED came up. And of course, as Rich’s teams pointed out, other than the depth that required the use of PS Move, identifying the precise 2D location of the player can be [done] by camera, if we put the LED bar on the controller.

So it has a dual – or it could be a triple – role because game designers could use it for some effect. Like when [players are] losing HP, the colour could change from green to red. Like in the Killzone demo, if you were watching Steven playing, [that game] has that function already.

Seems like 2D tracking only. Therefore it really can't be used for motion controlled games. It probably enhances the sixaxis and can be used to navigate the UI. For motion controlled games you still need the Move controller.

 

[mrklaw]

If Move or Eye Toy had been wildly successful we would be seeing the exact same commitment from Sony as MS but they weren't and it is too risky for them to do anything really unique with how dire the company is doing as a whole. The PS4 is a very safe system for them.

There is a big difference in how they are handled by the respective companies though

With psEye and move, Sony basically put their R&D out there as an accessory. The games aren't always great and they aren't pushed heavily, more as an interesting alternative way to play games.

With kinect, MS basically did blitzkrieg marketing - regardless of how capable kinect was, they made everyone want it.

Personally both solutions offer some nice games that benefit from the respective controls. And both fall short of being a fully fledged solution for all games.

 

[ari]

I think the criticism that they won't have hardcore games is ludicrous, but they will have a stronger strategy for the casual market. That just makes sense.

I totally agree, but I guarantee that the features or casual games isn't gonna be the main focus of marketing over hardcore games. Kinect isn't even the main focus currently on the 360. Sure if kinect 2.0 works, it just might be. But halo 4.5 or halo 5 isn't gonna be kinect tethered.

 

[Baconsammy]

Yeah me too. I think it has the potential to be what grabs all the headlines out of E3.

By chance do you use Windows 8? If so, have you activated their voice dictation/command system? I did the other day, and it filled me full of dread about what may be coming as voice support in Kinect 2. It barely got anything I said correct.

 

[Aquamarine]

Nah, there's a Sony bias here.

Ridiculous comments like these only proves your false assessment about a vast disparity in opinions.

When I started lurking here in 2006, the forum seemed more aligned against Sony due to the rising negativity towards PS3 at the time. The first impression was dispelled over time when I saw, that it wasn't the common course of the forum. So, I can kinda understand how it might seem exactly the opposite now, when we're in between the PS4 and XB3 events.

When there's a problem with a company, you see more threads and more comments about it. When a company is doing well, people don't really tend to talk about it all that much.

Sony botched the PS3 launch...that doesn't necessarily correlate to "forum-wide, rising negativity," but rather, it results in greater discussion about the issue.

 

[Flatline]

Really?

Wtf was this shit?

Jesus Christ, are you completely incapable of properly reading other people's posts? He said barely prominent not non-existent. It was just a small segment in an otherwise Move-less conference.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Sony did release Dance Star for Move. And Harry Potter is/was popular. But both games sold very poorly in comparison to their Kinect counterparts due to... poor marketing.

bad implementation too. The demonstration for Wonderbook was poorly done at E3 and they couldn't even get J.K. Rowling to announce it.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

There is a big difference in how they are handled by the respective companies though

With psEye and move, Sony basically put their R&D out there as an accessory. The games aren't always great and they aren't pushed heavily, more as an interesting alternative way to play games.

With kinect, MS basically did blitzkrieg marketing - regardless of how capable kinect was, they made everyone want it.

Personally both solutions offer some nice games that benefit from the respective controls. And both fall short of being a fully fledged solution for all games.

Yeah well said.

By chance do you use Windows 8? If so, have you activated their voice dictation/command system? I did the other day, and it filled me full of dread about what may be coming as voice support in Kinect 2. It barely got anything I said correct.

Haha yeah me and you were talking about how awful that is Bacon. Hopefully they paid some of the engineers behind Google VOICE scrooge mcduck money to make the voice system for Kinect.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Just wondering, do you agree with him?

At times I do think people go overboard so I can understand where he is coming from but it's happened to other platforms too. First for example I remember a thread about Sonys troubles and if they left gaming I saw members swear to the flag they would quit gaming and then there they were posting antagonistic garbage in other platform specific threads, then having the gaul to say its a persons persecution complex.

Then we have the infamous PS3 launch period, some of that was ridiculous too.

Maybe it's just Xbox's time to see childish crap. The people wanting to keep pushing it are as bad too

"lol"

 

[DeBurgo]

When I started lurking here in 2006, the forum seemed more aligned against Sony due to the rising negativity towards PS3 at the time. The first impression was dispelled over time when I saw, that it wasn't the common course of the forum. So, I can kinda understand how it might seem exactly the opposite now, when we're in between the PS4 and XB3 events.

I had the completely opposite interpretation of the same events. How weird is that!?!

This was the only place (outside of official/fan forums) where I saw at least a few people basically saying "Hey maybe it's not so bad."

 

[avaya]

Money is a big part but they are also a much smarter company when it comes to universal appeal.

When you first saw the Move what was going through every single one of our heads?

STAR WARS

You know what was going through Sonys?

SORCERER GUY!

You know what was going through Microsofts?

STAR WARS, DANCE CENTRAL, DISNEY ADVENTURES!

Microsoft gets it. Sony never will

Sorry, it's all still about money. PS2 demonstrates quite clearly Sony knows how to market to everyone, videogames aren't their only product. Microsoft's marketing has always and will always be about blanketing media with ads.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Sorry, it's all still about money. PS2 demonstrates quite clearly Sony knows how to market to everyone, videogames aren't their only product. Microsoft's marketing has always and will always be about blanketing media with ads.

Oh come on you know Move could have been handled better by any one person on NeoGaf. The fricken thing even looked kind of like a lightsaber!

It was so damn obvious this was made hours after the E3 event:

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Jesus Christ, are you completely incapable of properly reading other people's posts? He said barely prominent not non-existent. It was just a small segment in an otherwise Move-less conference.

Did you watch MS's 2012 E3? Kinect was hardly prominent. Certainly less than Move was at Sony's conference.

And did anyone notice that Kinect looking device at the PS4 event?

Seriously, there's very little difference with these companies.

 

[ari]

Sorry, it's all still about money. PS2 demonstrates quite clearly Sony knows how to market to everyone, videogames aren't their only product. Microsoft's marketing has always and will always be about blanketing media with ads.

Wasn't one of the main focuses of PS3 was bluray also? Yea...THEIR ALL ABOUT THE GAMES.

Remember that psp umd movie bullshit? lol

 

[Bleedorang3]

By chance do you use Windows 8? If so, have you activated their voice dictation/command system? I did the other day, and it filled me full of dread about what may be coming as voice support in Kinect 2. It barely got anything I said correct.

That system is getting greatly enhanced.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4132116/bing-streaming-mode-windows-phone-demo

With all the data they have gathered from Kinect/Windows 8/WP8 in regards to speech recognition and regional dialects they can put together some really good stuff.

 

[avaya]

Oh come on you know Move could have been handled better by any one person on NeoGaf. The fricken thing even looked kind of like a lightsaber!

I was concerned that they thought it would be a good idea releasing a product that looked on first glance to resemble a sex toy.

There is the stupid to begin with.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I was concerned that they thought it would be a good idea releasing a product that looked on first glance to resemble a sex toy.

There is the stupid to begin with.

Hahaha well that is kind of true.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Did you watch MS's 2012 E3? Kinect was hardly prominent. Certainly less than Move was at Sony's conference.

And did anyone notice that Kinect looking device at the PS4 event?

Seriously, there's very little difference with these companies.

I agree, MS toned it down with Kinect last year. It will be interesting to see what they show on the new Xbox. I still think there's room for Kinect as a gaming peripheral and better technology can maybe do it justice.

 

[Bleedorang3]

Jesus Christ, are you completely incapable of properly reading other people's posts? He said barely prominent not non-existent. It was just a small segment in an otherwise Move-less conference.

Haha man those goalposts sure do move fast!

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

I was concerned that they thought it would be a good idea releasing a product that looked on first glance to resemble a sex toy.

There is the stupid to begin with.

The biggest problem with Move is it didn't appear different from the Wii. No marketing can create mass excitement for the 2nd product entry in to a well developed market.

 

[Monty Mole]

Sorry, it's all still about money. PS2 demonstrates quite clearly Sony knows how to market to everyone, videogames aren't their only product. Microsoft's marketing has always and will always be about blanketing media with ads.

PS2 demonstrated plenty of things a decade ago which are no longer relevant. Sony's marketing has gone downhill in recent years, across the board. It's the big reason why so many of their divisions are no longer market leaders, whether we're talking music players, smartphones, TVs, cameras, etc. they're frequently beaten by the superior marketing of companies like Samsung and Apple. Even... Blackberry.

 

[shinobi602]

Haha man those goalposts sure do move fast!

He's right though. Barely prominent doesn't mean it wasn't there at all. They showed it with one project and that was it.

 

[ari]

I...I still can't believe that people are making it seem as if microsoft is shit because they marketed and supported their peripheral better in order to sell tons of the thing. This is some new territory type shit we're approaching.

 

[rdrr gnr]

I've only had my account activated so I haven't yet been able to contribute much to the PS3, Durango conversation, but I have been lurking for awhile.

That said the way I've seen GAF react to each companies consoles is when Sony said "We're going to be the number one place for games, social networking and entertainment" people go OMG SONY IS ONLY ABOUT GAMES, THEY LOVE US GAMERS, but when Microsoft says "We want Durango to be the games, TV, and entertainment center of the living room" people scream OMG MS IS FOCUSING ON ENTERTAINMENT. THEYVE ABANDONED US GAMERS. Obviously I'm using hyperbole, but that's just what I've observed.

I guarantee Microsoft is going to come out and say the exact same things as Sony and they'll get crucified for it because people looked at the last few years with Kinect and think that's the future, it isn't. Every console towards the end of a gen turns towards the casual crowd to try and boost sales because "hardcore" gamers already have the console anyways. Will Kinect be a part of the next Xbox? Yeah. Will they be as Kinect centered as the last few years? No, because that's not what makes them money.

I think gamers don't fully get how business in the world works. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo don't want your love and affection, they want your money. I remember a Michael Eisner quote that really struck me awhile ago. He said something to the effect of "Disney's goal isn't to make dreams come true, it's to make money" and the same goes with the games industry. It's stupid for fanboys to argue who cares about who more.

Me? Whatever company presents the games that you want, get that console first and the other one later. I got the N64 first, then the PS; then the PS2 first, then Xbox, and this gen it was 360 first, PS3 second.
Whew, end rant. Again, it's my opinion and opinions CAN be wrong, it's just how I see things right now and we'll find out a LOT more after the 21st.

Why are people celebrating this post as if it were insightful? It's rather trite and makes assumptions that are still debatable.

I...I still can't believe that people are making it seem as if microsoft is shit because they marketed and supported their peripheral better in order to sell tons of the thing. This is some new territory type shit we're approaching.

Absolutely delusional.

 

[Baconsammy]

Seems like 2D tracking only. Therefore it really can't be used for motion controlled games. It probably enhances the sixaxis and can be used to navigate the UI. For motion controlled games you still need the Move controller.

It's not 2D only. It's 3D as well. It essentially serves the same purpose as the bulb-light on the end of the Move. I can't find where I first read it, but they talked about how the new dual camera array can track you via that light in a 3D space in the dark. It sounded cool. They also talked about how the light can also simply be used as mood lighting in games, or to differentiate players.

He's right though. Barely prominent doesn't mean it wasn't there at all. They showed it with one project and that was it.

He's not right though. It was quite prominent. They dedicated a long segment of their reveal to it. "Not prominent" would be mentioning its existence, showing it real quick, then moving on. It was prominent.

 

[140.85]

Internally, Microsoft could be totally enamoured with kinect and see it as a priority but it's anybody's guess how much kinect 2.0 will be shown on the 21st.

I'm guessing there is a camp in the gaming division who pushed against it taking center stage at the reveal to get the hardcore on board early and want to opt for an E3 kinect blowout instead. I guess we just have to wait and see.

 

[Bleedorang3]

He's right though. Barely prominent doesn't mean it wasn't there at all. They showed it with one project and that was it.

Clearly this means that Sony isn't focused on core gamers! At least, that's how it has been, and most likely will be spun if Microsoft does the exact same thing.

 

[Krisprolls]

I...I still can't believe that people are making it seem as if microsoft is shit because they marketed and supported their peripheral better in order to sell tons of the thing. This is some new territory type shit we're approaching.

People don't care if it sold. We're not on Forbes, it's a gaming forum.

They just want deep 1st party core games instead of dancing parties and kinectimals.

What is so hard to grasp in this concept ?

 

[ari]

People don't care if it sold. We're not on Forbes, it's a gaming forum.

They just want deep 1st party core games instead of dancing parties and kinectimals.

What is so hard to grasp in this concept ?

Kinectimals was marketed for us AND it replaced MS 1st party core games? OK

Can't wait for Kinectimals 2 as my AAA launch title.

 

[avaya]

PS2 demonstrated plenty of things a decade ago which are no longer relevant. Sony's marketing has gone downhill in recent years, across the board. It's the big reason why so many of their divisions are no longer market leaders, whether we're talking music players, smartphones, TVs, cameras, etc. they're frequently beaten by the superior marketing of companies like Samsung and Apple. Even... Blackberry.

I'm sure labour prices, fx, commoditisation, lack of focused R&D and hubris played no part, it was the marketing that was the big reason.

 

[Bleedorang3]

People don't care if it sold. We're not on Forbes, it's a gaming forum.

They just want deep 1st party core games instead of dancing parties and kinectimals.

What is so hard to grasp in this concept ?

This just in: Core games and Casual games cannot coexist on the same platform. To do so means that the platform holder has somehow "lost focus" or has "abandoned teh gamers!".

 

[Monty Mole]

People don't care if it sold. We're not on Forbes, it's a gaming forum.

They just want deep 1st party core games instead of dancing parties and kinectimals.

What is so hard to grasp in this concept ?

Have you forgotten about Sony's first party line up from last year already?

 

[shinobi602]

He's not right though. It was quite prominent. They dedicated a long segment of their reveal to it. "Not prominent" would be mentioning its existence, showing it real quick, then moving on. It was prominent.

I don't know, it lasted maybe, 10 minutes or so? out of a 2 hr+ conference.

 

[Krisprolls]

Kinectimals was marketed for us AND it replaced MS 1st party core games? OK

Yes it did replace them apparently. Otherwise where are the 1st party AAA games in 2013 ?

 

[Flatline]

Did you watch MS's 2012 E3? Kinect was hardly prominent. Certainly less than Move was at Sony's conference.

And did anyone notice that Kinect looking device at the PS4 event?

Seriously, there's very little difference with these companies.

Dude, are you serious? The terrible Madden Kinect presentation was as long as MM's Move presentation. Then there was Fable, voice commands, the Nike craptastic Kinect presentation, voice commands again and Wreckateer and Kinect being mentioned everywhere. Not to mention the majority of the conference was boring "Xbox entertainment" crap.

 

[140.85]

He's not right though. It was quite prominent. They dedicated a long segment of their reveal to it. "Not prominent" would be mentioning its existence, showing it real quick, then moving on. It was prominent.

No, it really wasn't. Regardless of its length or detail it was obvious it was a relative afterthought in the grand scheme of things. I'm not sure why you're trying to convince us otherwise. We saw the reveal, and what was prominent was obvious to almost everyone in short order. You should probably watch it again because it seems your memory of the incident has become warped with time.

 

[Baconsammy]

That system is getting greatly enhanced.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/21/4132116/bing-streaming-mode-windows-phone-demo

With all the data they have gathered from Kinect/Windows 8/WP8 in regards to speech recognition and regional dialects they can put together some really good stuff.

Is the system on Windows Phone different than what's built into Windows 8? The accuracy he was getting on what he called the old method is much better than anything I see on Windows 8. Meanwhile I go into Chrome, click the mic, and it immediately recognizes every single word I say. Pure witchcraft. For an OS offering speech recognition and dictation, I expect nothing less than what Google offers. Granted Google requires an internet connection to function.

 

[Monty Mole]

Yes it did replace them apparently. Otherwise where are the 1st party AAA games in 2013 ?

Durango.

Where were Sony's 1st party AAA games in 2012?

 

[Krisprolls]

Have you forgotten about Sony's first party line up from last year already?

No need for a list war to know Sony has released more 1st party AAA games, especially during the last 3 years.

 

[CookTrain]

Yes it did replace them apparently. Otherwise where are the 1st party AAA games in 2013 ?

Where are the 1st party Kinect-fest games in 2013?

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Yes it did replace them apparently. Otherwise where are the 1st party AAA games in 2013 ?

I'm sure we'll see some in 10 days.

 

[ari]

Yes it did replace them apparently. Otherwise where are the 1st party AAA games in 2013 ?

going on xbox 720? The fuck are you saying? What big kinect game you saw or played lately?

 

[Krisprolls]

Durango.

Where were Sony's 1st party AAA games in 2012?

Journey was great, so was every year actually. 2013 looks greater, but you got the point.