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[ThisWreckage]

They sold more than three times as many consoles as last time while their competitor sold the least it ever has...

Was that due to Microsoft's strategy or Sony's utter incompetence? Or a combination both. It is definitely because of several reasons. A combination of many factors. Launching a year after your competitor with a 599.99 console that had weak software in its entire first year on the market was something Microsoft capitalized on and that was a storybook opportunity for them. We will get to see what company is better at strategy this time around. Because the consoles will be competitively priced and launching at around the same time. So it's an even playing field.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Was that due to Microsoft's strategy or Sony's utter incompetence? Or a combination both. It is definitely because of several reasons. A combination of many factors. Launching a year after your competitor with a 599.99 console that had weak software in its entire first year on the market was something Microsoft capitalized on and that was a storybook opportunity for them. We will get to see what company is better at strategy this time around. Because the consoles will be competitively priced and launching at around the same time. So it's an even playing field.

Does that matter?

the bottom line is they made better choices than sony did.

PS3 wasn't forced on sony - they created it from a position of 'we can do no wrong'

 

[GoofsterStud]

Does that matter?

the bottom line is they made better choices than sony did.

PS3 wasn't forced on sony - they created it from a position of 'we can do no wrong'

Which seems to by Microsoft's current position. Either way as long as none of them require always online connections and allow me to play my games on multiple systems. I'll own all of them at some point.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Does that matter?

the bottom line is they made better choices than sony did.

PS3 wasn't forced on sony - they created it from a position of 'we can do no wrong'

It most certainly does matter. Making major strides is a different thing from watching your competitor slit their throat.

 

[mrklaw]

Dualshock 4 is effectively a move integrated with a dualshock 3.

Didn't guerrilla or another dev say that they persuaded Sony to upgrade the motion sensors ithe Ds4 so they were in line with move etc? (In one of the 'Sony listens to devs' interviews). So for motion it should be as capable as move or wiiU gamepad. The light is clearly designed to be picked up by the psEye, and IMO the shape of it (not rotationally symmetrical) suggests they won't just detect position but also be able to detect orientation - possible for keeping the motion sensors calibrated. And the relatively wide light may help the two cameras detect distance better.

All in all, it looks setup to be as close to a full move setup out of the box as possible, and all in the standard controller. There will be times when you'll want to use a wand too though

 

[Calvarok]

Which seems to by Microsoft's current position. Either way as long as none of them require always online connections and allow me to play my games on multiple systems. I'll own all of them at some point.

We don't really know microsoft's position though, do we?

Spec details and rumors can't tell us that definitively.

 

[something fishy]

I mean just look at this:

PS3 1st party lineup:
The Last of Us
Beyond
Rain
Puppeteer
Until Dawn

Vs

360 1st party lineup:
Lococcyle (XBL).

Putting so much at the back end of a gen when a lot of people's attention has moved on seems like bad planning in a way.

MS are also a year further along, nearing 8 years, i'm sure next years ps3 will be very similar.

 

[Flatline]

It's fascinating how a brief shift in Microsoft's late-era Xbox 360 strategy to reign in casuals...has produced such a widespread misconception that Microsoft "doesn't care about gamers."

2-3 years = brief?

 

[Melchiah]

They showed five first party games/things, Knack, Killzone, InFamous, Drive Club, and that MM Move thing. I don't know the exactly times, but I think the MM Move thing got the most time out of all of those

Yet it was only one fifth of their first party offerings. None of the four games included motion controls in their presentations.

 

[FordGTGuy]

2-3 years = brief?

2010-11 were better years than 2009 for Xbox 360 and that's not even getting into the Microsoft published XBLA games.

It only makes sense that they slowed down in 2012 with a brand new console coming, they want these studios working on new games for the new console.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Microsoft_Studios

 

[Hindle]

2010-11 were better years than 2009 for Xbox 360 and that's not even getting into the Microsoft published XBLA games.

It only makes sense that they slowed down in 2012 with a brand new console coming, they want these studios working on new games for the new console.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_by_Microsoft_Studios

It's been explained to them many times as this arguement. Through ignorance, or lack of comprehension they don't seem to get it. Or maybe they're just trolling.

Best of ignoring them dude.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Putting so much at the back end of a gen when a lot of people's attention has moved on seems like bad planning in a way.

MS are also a year further along, nearing 8 years, i'm sure next years ps3 will be very similar.

No its something called the ten year plan. Sony for its home consoles has never dropped support for their previous systems when the new ones come out. Its the reason why PS2 continued to sell throughout this generation ( 60 million iirc after the ps3 came out) and why the PS3 will likely continue selling more than any other last gen system in the years to come.

They showed five first party games/things, Knack, Killzone, InFamous, Drive Club, and that MM Move thing. I don't know the exactly times, but I think the MM Move thing got the most time out of all of those

MM new game is not only move, MM have clearly said this. They may or may not use move in some way but it will still be playable with just a normal controller.

 

[patapuf]

No its something called the ten year plan. Sony for its home consoles has never dropped support for their previous systems when the new ones come out. Its the reason why PS2 continued to sell throughout this generation ( 60 million iirc after the ps3 came out) and why the PS3 will likely continue selling more than any other last gen system in the years to come.

What games did sony release for PS2 after the PS3 launched? (serious question, i don't know)

 

[iMax]

No its something called the ten year plan. Sony for its home consoles has never dropped support for their previous systems when the new ones come out. Its the reason why PS2 continued to sell throughout this generation ( 60 million iirc after the ps3 came out) and why the PS3 will likely continue selling more than any other last gen system in the years to come.

So I guess you could say that PS4 won't be Sony's Major Focus? You can be sure the next Xbox will be Microsoft's.

 

[pieatorium]

What games did sony release for PS2 after the PS3 launched? (serious question, i don't know)

God of War2

 

[iMax]

What games did sony release for PS2 after the PS3 launched? (serious question, i don't know)

Not Sony, but still blows my mind that this exists.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Unlike what happened to the PS3 Sony is trying to sell as much PS4s as fast as possible and they are going to need every game that they can get on PS4 to do this.

Not Sony, but still blows my mind that this exists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_hcO2zbChM

Also every rumor right now is pointing towards a rerelease of the Xbox 360 at a cheaper price so Microsoft is most likely keeping a 10 year plan for Xbox 360 too.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

What games did sony release for PS2 after the PS3 launched? (serious question, i don't know)

Its not Sony, but mainly third parties especially in Japan. Notable Sony games after PS3 was release (2007+):

God of War 2
Syphon Filter Dark Mirror
Buzz
Singstar
MLB the show
Motorstorm Arctic Edge

A lot of PSP ports.

Theres a shit ton more third party games though look on the Wiki.

So I guess you could say that PS4 won't be Sony's Major Focus? You can be sure the next Xbox will be Microsoft's.

For Sony's first parties PS4 will definitely be the focus. Furthermore they have a much larger first party so they can afford some of them being lttp for next gen.

 

[Alx]

What games did sony release for PS2 after the PS3 launched? (serious question, i don't know)

According to Wikipedia :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._by_Sony_Computer_Entertainment#PlayStation_2

After 2006, a lot of sport games (yearly MLB, tennis, formula 1,...), God of War II, Ratchet & Clank, Motorstorm.
I would say GoW II was the real "big gun", everything else was just making easy money out of the still profitable PS2.

 

[TheKayle]

What games did sony release for PS2 after the PS3 launched? (serious question, i don't know)

i dont think u will see tha same future support ..that ps2 had ..on the ps3

ps3 was a dollars trash bin for sony pretty much under every aspect

ps2 was a successfull low cost production console easy to develope for...

ps3 is just the opposite

 

[DieH@rd]

Not Sony, but still blows my mind that this exists.

And it sells well.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Are there any PS3 1st party titles confirmed that could end up releasing after the PS4 launch or even in the same window?

 

[TheKayle]

Are there any PS3 1st party titles confirmed that could end up releasing after the PS4 launch or even in the same window?

the last of us should be out 14 june...

dont know if there r other firstparty games around

but i mean god of war 2 (2007 game)...hit the ps2 after 7 years (ps2 go in the market in the 2000)

last of us is hitting the ps3 after 7 years too....theres nothing of special in ps2 gow2 release

the crazy thing about ps2 confirmed the stop of the producion jsut in dcemeber 2012...this mean 5 years later the ps3 hit the market

i dont think sony will do the same with ps3..

seen that ps3 was for sony an economical fiasco

 

[Guymelef]

Are there any PS3 1st party titles confirmed that could end up releasing after the PS4 launch or even in the same window?

Gran Turismo 6.

 

[stryke]

Are there any PS3 1st party titles confirmed that could end up releasing after the PS4 launch or even in the same window?

Not 1st party but Beyond is cutting it close.

but i mean god of war 2 (2007 game)...hit the ps2 after 7 years (ps2 go in the market in the 2000)

last of us is hitting the ps3 after 7 years too....theres nothing of special in ps2 gow2 release

What? Time span has nothing to with it. GOW2 released in the presence of their next gen console successor. The Last of Us isn't. Still 2 very different scenarios.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Gran Turismo 6.

There is a release date? There is any information at all about the platforms it will release on and when?

 

[pieatorium]

Are there any PS3 1st party titles confirmed that could end up releasing after the PS4 launch or even in the same window?

Puppeteer

 

[Guymelef]

There is a release date? There is any information at all about the platforms it will release on and when?

Nothing official yet, PS3, November.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Nothing official yet, PS3, November.

Aren't all the PS3 platform hints just from online stores?

Puppeteer

Sorry for being lazy but could you link me?

 

[TheKayle]

Not 1st party but Beyond is cutting it close.



What? Time span has nothing to with it. GOW2 released in the presence of their next gen console successor. The Last of Us isn't. Still 2 very different scenarios.

well the time span mean ..give u an idea of support given to the console

 

[iMax]

For Sony's first parties PS4 will definitely be the focus. Furthermore they have a much larger first party so they can afford some of them being lttp for next gen.

Not sure where you're getting this...

Sony Computer Entertainment:

Naughty Dog
Santa Monica
San Diego
Foster City
London
Japan
Guerrilla
Guerrilla Cambridge
Evolution
Media Molecule
Bend
Sucker Punch
Polyphony
Sony Online Entertainment

That's 14.

Microsoft Studios

Rare
343i
BigPark
Black Tusk
MS Victoria
MSLA
MS Redmond
Platform Next
Playful
Skybox
Turn 10
Twisted Pixel
Good Science
ConnectedExperiences
Kids&Lifestyle
Xbox LIVE Productions
Lionhead
Lift London
Soho
Press Play

That's 20.

OK, so how about owned IP and franchises?

Sony Computer Entertainment has 88.
Microsoft Studios has 103.

Now we all know it's about quality, not quantity, right? Well, Metacritic rated Microsoft's average output in the last year higher than Sony's. And has for three years running.

So, Microsoft has more studios, more IP, and better rated games.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Which seems to by Microsoft's current position. Either way as long as none of them require always online connections and allow me to play my games on multiple systems. I'll own all of them at some point.

No it doesn't.

Saying nothing is not the same as "nest gen doesn't start until we say so"

A lot of the current situation is people negatively filling the blanks, and weirdly assuming that because Sony has fixed things MS must be broken.

 

[astroturfing]

Not Sony, but still blows my mind that this exists.

that is.. impressive. really impressive.

 

[iMax]

Also every rumor right now is pointing towards a rerelease of the Xbox 360 at a cheaper price so Microsoft is most likely keeping a 10 year plan for Xbox 360 too.

If this happens, it'll likely be a media-focused Xbox 360 sans-disc drive, with the focus being on VOD-consumption and casual gaming, both Games on Demand and XBLA.

 

[Guymelef]

Aren't all the PS3 platform hints just from online stores?

I hear things.
And:

 

[DEADEVIL]

Not sure where you're getting this...

Sony Computer Entertainment:

Naughty Dog
Santa Monica
San Diego
Foster City
London
Japan
Guerrilla
Guerrilla Cambridge
Evolution
Media Molecule
Bend
Sucker Punch
Polyphony
Sony Online Entertainment

That's 14.

Microsoft Studios

Rare
343i
BigPark
Black Tusk
MS Victoria
MSLA
MS Redmond
Platform Next
Playful
Skybox
Turn 10
Twisted Pixel
Good Science
ConnectedExperiences
Kids&Lifestyle
Xbox LIVE Productions
Lionhead
Lift London
Soho
Press Play

That's 20.

OK, so how about owned IP and franchises?

Sony Computer Entertainment has 88.
Microsoft Studios has 103.

Now we all know it's about quality, not quantity, right? Well, Metacritic rated Microsoft's average output in the last year higher than Sony's.

So, Microsoft has more studios, more IP, and better rated games.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

IMAX from the top rope.

 

[DEADEVIL]

No it doesn't.

Saying nothing is not the same as "nest gen doesn't start until we say so"

A lot of the current situation is people negatively filling the blanks, and weirdly assuming that because Sony has fixed things MS must be broken.

So wait. Saying nothing means make up a quote because MS said it.

Nah. Saying nothing while consistently telling the media that you don't comment on rumors is sticking to your guns.

We have had rumors started and dispelled by the same source.

None of the rumors hurt them at all, especially if they prove to be untrue.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I hear things.
And:

Cool I'm kinda hyped to see how that plays out.

If this happens, it'll likely be a media-focused Xbox 360 sans-disc drive, with the focus being on VOD-consumption and casual gaming, both Games on Demand and XBLA.

I didn't mention it earlier but I was going to say that the Xbox 360 is most likely going to be kept afloat through XBLA and GoD after rerelease.

Not sure where you're getting this...

Sony Computer Entertainment:

Naughty Dog
Santa Monica
San Diego
Foster City
London
Japan
Guerrilla
Guerrilla Cambridge
Evolution
Media Molecule
Bend
Sucker Punch
Polyphony
Sony Online Entertainment

That's 14.

Microsoft Studios

Rare
343i
BigPark
Black Tusk
MS Victoria
MSLA
MS Redmond
Platform Next
Playful
Skybox
Turn 10
Twisted Pixel
Good Science
ConnectedExperiences
Kids&Lifestyle
Xbox LIVE Productions
Lionhead
Lift London
Soho
Press Play

That's 20.

OK, so how about owned IP and franchises?

Sony Computer Entertainment has 88.
Microsoft Studios has 103.

Now we all know it's about quality, not quantity, right? Well, Metacritic rated Microsoft's average output in the last year higher than Sony's. And has for three years running.

So, Microsoft has more studios, more IP, and better rated games.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

A lot of their studios have been very quiet coming up to the new Xbox.

 

[iMax]

I didn't mention it earlier but I was going to say that the Xbox 360 is most likely going to be kept afloat through XBLA and GoD after rerelease.

Yeah, that's very likely. I don't think there'll be much AAA first-party development for it though, if any.

 

[pieatorium]

Guerrilla is 2 teams (not inc Cambridge)
Naughty dog 2 teams
Santa Monica 2 teams
Japan Multiple teams
Media Media Molecule 2 teams
SOE Multiple teams (not sure why there really counted since 99% of their stuff is PC but it was brought up,)

 

[gofreak]

the crazy thing about ps2 confirmed the stop of the producion jsut in dcemeber 2012...this mean 5 years later the ps3 hit the market

i dont think sony will do the same with ps3..

seen that ps3 was for sony an economical fiasco

In determining whether Sony will seek to extend and support PS3's life beyond PS4, you have to look at the PS3 business today, not where it was 4 or 5 years ago.

Today it is a profitable business for Sony. I don't see any reason for them to not ride it out as long as they can as a lower cost option, and continue to generate profit on it, if PS4 is going to be commensurately more expensive for some time. And the signs are that they may more aggressively pursue the idea of a multi-machine home strategy, if things like GT6 are really coming to PS3 so late in the day. And the PS3 software platform being their focus in the cloud may give new motivation for Sony to promote and support PS3 for longer.

The challenge for PS3 in this scenario is whether there's a high lower limit on cost reduction for it, or not. If not I don't see any reason why they wouldn't or shouldn't stretch it out as an entry level platform.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Guerrilla is 2 teams (not inc Cambridge)
Naughty dog 2 teams
Santa Monica 2 teams
Japan Multiple teams
Media Media Molecule 2 teams
SOE Multiple teams (not sure why there really counted since 99% of their stuff is PC but it was brought up,)

That list also doesn't include 2nd Parties for instance the Forza Horizon developer is not on that list.

We also have no idea how many of those Xbox teams have multiple teams too.

Does anyone have the figure on how many PS2s were sold by the time the PS3 launched compared to how many PS3s will be sold?

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

*Ether*

 

[RiverBed]

Dualshock 4 is effectively a move integrated with a dualshock 3.

Didn't guerrilla or another dev say that they persuaded Sony to upgrade the motion sensors ithe Ds4 so they were in line with move etc? (In one of the 'Sony listens to devs' interviews). So for motion it should be as capable as move or wiiU gamepad. The light is clearly designed to be picked up by the psEye, and IMO the shape of it (not rotationally symmetrical) suggests they won't just detect position but also be able to detect orientation - possible for keeping the motion sensors calibrated. And the relatively wide light may help the two cameras detect distance better.

All in all, it looks setup to be as close to a full move setup out of the box as possible, and all in the standard controller. There will be times when you'll want to use a wand too though

I'm thinking 3D menus at some time.

 

[pieatorium]

That list also doesn't include 2nd Parties for instance the Forza Horizon developer is not on that list.

We also have no idea how many of those Xbox teams have multiple teams too.

Does anyone have the figure on how many PS2s were sold by the time the PS3 launched compared to how many PS3s will be sold?

Also doesnt include sony second part either though like Clap Hanz, Quantic Dream, Novarama etc

 

[stryke]

In determining whether Sony will seek to extend and support PS3's life beyond PS4, you have to look at the PS3 business today, not where it was 4 or 5 years ago.

Today it is a profitable business for Sony. I don't see any reason for them to not ride it out as long as they can as a lower cost option, and continue to generate profit on it, if PS4 is going to be commensurately more expensive for some time. And the signs are that they may more aggressively pursue the idea of a multi-machine home strategy, if things like GT6 are really coming to PS3 so late in the day. And the PS3 software platform being their focus in the cloud may give new motivation for Sony to promote and support PS3 for longer.

The challenge for PS3 in this scenario is whether there's a high lower limit on cost reduction for it, or not. If not I don't see any reason why they wouldn't or shouldn't stretch it out as an entry level platform.

I think they may just rely on third parties to keep producing PS3 content. On the IGN Beyond podcast post Playstation Meeting, they quoted Shuhei saying that all 1st party developers are working on a PS4 title in some capacity. After this year, I have a suspicion we won't see another first party PS3 title anymore.

 

[benny_a]

So, Microsoft has more studios, more IP, and better rated games.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

As we're on GAF, let's see what GAF's rates the better publisher as voted by members of GAF.

2012: Sony over MS
2011: Sony over MS (MS didn't even rate in the top 10)
2010: Sony over MS

That link also reveals how bad Microsoft's output is quantitative despite having more studios numerically.

 

[Thorgal]

What games did sony release for PS2 after the PS3 launched? (serious question, i don't know)

syphon filter : dark mirror and logans shadow ?

they where cross platform with psp but still

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Not sure where you're getting this...

Sony Computer Entertainment:

Naughty Dog
Santa Monica
San Diego
Foster City
London
Japan
Guerrilla
Guerrilla Cambridge
Evolution
Media Molecule
Bend
Sucker Punch
Polyphony
Sony Online Entertainment

That's 14.

Microsoft Studios

Rare
343i
BigPark
Black Tusk
MS Victoria
MSLA
MS Redmond
Platform Next
Playful
Skybox
Turn 10
Twisted Pixel
Good Science
ConnectedExperiences
Kids&Lifestyle
Xbox LIVE Productions
Lionhead
Lift London
Soho
Press Play

That's 20.

OK, so how about owned IP and franchises?

Sony Computer Entertainment has 88.
Microsoft Studios has 103.

Now we all know it's about quality, not quantity, right? Well, Metacritic rated Microsoft's average output in the last year higher than Sony's. And has for three years running.

So, Microsoft has more studios, more IP, and better rated games.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[Impeccable]

I personally feel if we're being completely fair, if I can play it on another platform it doesn't really count. I love my 360 but the last couple of years have been in terms of exclusives been more exciting on the Sony side of things for me personally.

... also, list wars.