This comment is almost as bad as a list war..
If you think that's the problem with your comment you are heading down a bad road....
Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
This comment is almost as bad as a list war..
If you think that's the problem with your comment you are heading down a bad road....
You don't like how the results change if we go by NeoGAF's own stastistics instead of third-party sites?
If you were concerned about list wars it would serve you better if you objected to the person that started it as soon as you saw it.FordGTGuy said:
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
ThisWreckage said:
*COUGHS* Wii *COUGHS*.
Nintendo sold so many Wii's in a short space of time that both Sony and MS are playing catch-up globally to this day. It seems logical to me that Sony would take a far heavier hit than MS to their business due to this for many reasons; most notably them having the huge marketshare to lose, and a broader, less hardcore focussed line-up than XBox.
The fact that its going to take a straight-up miraculous turnaround for Nintendo to repeat this trick in the coming generation is a major indicator that this time things are going to be very different; especially in non English-speaking territories where MS progress has been far less impactful than in NA/UK.
While it would be unwise to discount MS, at this point they cannot afford to take their foot off the gas pedal. XBox as a brand has come a long way, but there's still a lot of work to be done in order to assure success in the coming generation.
I wonder why...
Yeah, that's Playground Games. They're not owned by Microsoft, so I didn't include them. Sony has worked with 39 third-party studios, whilst Microsoft has worked with 89.
We know that 343i is huge and has multiple teams. Rare and Lionhead also have multiple teams. Other than that, it's all pretty secret.
No, I think if anything it shows a disconnect between people's opinions on here versus that of professional critics.
Yes, you're right. SCE published 3 more games than Microsoft in the last year. And still got a lower score. It also shows that Microsoft is clearly hard at work on next-gen.
I think that says more about GAF than anything else, actually.
This is hardly a list war. If someone wants to make a false statement without backing it up with real data, then yes, I'm going to prove otherwise.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Hehe.
I will say that for MS owning 103 IP, they don't do shit with a lot of them. Give me a new Crimson Skies, Conker, Midtown Madness, Crackdown, Bloodwake, Fusion Frenzy, Blast Corps, Jet Set Gemini and Kameo you bastards.
So what if there is a disconnect? We're on this forum right now.
The number difference according to our own Games of the Year thread is much higher than 3.
I don't see how it's a false statement if they do release more games and the publisher has the highest rating on this board's game of the year voting.
Different sources will vary.
This is undoubtedly Microsoft's biggest problem. They're sitting on a ridiculously large portfolio of IP and are using hardly any of it. However, they've invested a lot in new studios recently, so it's likely some of those old IPs will either be revived or joined with new ones.
I know and they have really good IPs too. D:
*Click View Post*
Oh that's why I have you ignored again.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I'm laughing my ass off here.
The fact that you count the number of studios to measure first party output is simply laughable. According to your metric, a dev like Press play made up of only 20 people, is accounted with the same weight as a dev like Naughty Dog. Simply laughable.
Lol using metacritic now? I guess that 0.7 extra on Metacritic really makes MS first party superior.
Yes, but this forum is not necessarily reflective of the core consumer base.
Sony had 3 more exclusive games than Microsoft last year.
This is the statement I'm referring to...
This is completely incorrect, as I've shown. Sources are irrelevant. It's a fact.
That's fine by me. There is a reason I'm on GAF.
If every little team at Sony Santa Monica was spin-off into their own studio, then Sony would have more studios.
He was obviously going by headcount. And as you know about this stuff I don't know how you didn't infer it.
I think the funniest part of the comment is that he asserts that Sony can afford something.
dragonelite
Member
I'm laughing my ass off here.
The fact that you count the number of studios to measure first party output is simply laughable. According to your metric, a dev like Press play made up of only 20 people, is accounted with the same weight as a dev like Naughty Dog. Simply laughable.
Lol using metacritic now? I guess that 0.7 extra on Metacritic really makes MS first party superior.
Moving goalpost much?
I'm addressing your statement that Sony has a larger first party. This isn't true.
No, I'd compare a studio like Press Play to a comparably sized studio at Sony. Unless you want to compare 343i with Media Molecule, perhaps?
It's a review aggregation site.
You know for every member on GAF there's around 1200 current-gen console owners? It's not exactly a comparable statistic.
Same with 343i.
Brad Grenz
Member
But the thing is, you're wrong. You've counted support studios and teams that mostly do Windows phone projects. Meanwhile Sony first party studios employ more than Nintendo and Microsoft first party combined. That's the reality. Sony World Wide dwarfs Microsoft's development apparatus. Oh, and like a third of those MS studios are brand new and have never shipped a single game.
Wickerbasket
Member
How have MS managed to release fewer games than Sony each year despite having more studios?
I mean look at this:
2013 Scored Products
Microsoft: 44
Sony: 49
2012 Scored Products
Microsoft: 25
Sony: 35
2011 Scored Products
Microsoft: 21
Sony: 48
I mean, wtf are those studios doing?
I mean look at this:
2013 Scored Products
Microsoft: 44
Sony: 49
2012 Scored Products
Microsoft: 25
Sony: 35
2011 Scored Products
Microsoft: 21
Sony: 48
I mean, wtf are those studios doing?
And for every professional critic listed on MC there are 30 members on NeoGAF. (Alternatively: For every publication that ever published anything on Metacritic there are 90 registered members on GAF.)
So you know the folly of counting the amount of studios while ignoring output & headcount.
Seems like you're deliberately interpreting the statement of him so you could create a list copy-pasted from Wikipedia.
Preparing for the most numerous first-party launch line-up ever.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
No its not a fact, and the fact that you think it is one makes you delusional.
As you can see, if your read it properly:
I clearly state larger not who has the most studio's. SCEJ for instance probably has more people than a third of the devs on that list with over 400. If you could prove to me that MS game studios has more people working for them than SCE then I can agree with you.
How about you learn to read first.
Thats really worrying.
That explains it lol.
this is a sony problem most of them dotn reach enough sales..
A lot of those studios are brand new and haven't released a game yet because of this.
Most of them are most likely working on content for the Xbox 720.
Wickerbasket
Member
I've been on GAF so long I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.
And Sony hasn't been working on PS4 content?
I just don't get how Sony can output roughly double the games MS have since 2010. I'm sure the years before that would be similar, but metacritic doesn't do comparisons that far back.
Brad Grenz
Member
No kidding, but the whole point of the article that spawned this thread was that MS is trying to build all these studios at the same time and that doesn't always go according to plan. If you want to get in a list war I will take any of the Sony teams, which all have long track records for quality products, over any of these secret Microsoft teams who haven't proven they can ship a game at all, let alone a good one.
Woo! List warz! *high fives self*
Mikey Jr.
Member
Separate from everything else, you aren't serious with this, right?
Right?
Half those "developers" you listed don't even have a single game made and were just recently created. I mean, no offense, but you have to scrape the absolute bottom of the shit barrel to come up with some of those 20 on there.
Also, your average score thing shows Sony behind MS by literally 0.7.
"Better rated" is taking it a bit too far, don't you think?
Whole point of the article is to get clicks, every studio I've seen has said they always wish they had more time.
When did I say Sony isn't?
Studios in bold are currently working on core Xbox titles. Studios that aren't are either unknown, or working on other Xbox experiences. I didn't count any studios that 'mostly do Windows Phone projects'.
Rare
343i
BigPark
Black Tusk
MS Victoria (Rumoured)
MSLA
MS Redmond (Rumoured)
Platform Next
Playful
Skybox
Turn 10
Twisted Pixel
Good Science
ConnectedExperiences
Kids&Lifestyle
Xbox LIVE Productions
Lionhead
Lift London
Soho
Press Play
There are 5 additional support studios that I didn't count.
If you've got data on this, I'd genuinely love to see it.
Correct. But 343i did alright when they shipped their first game. Also, bear in mind, these 'new studios' are made up of seasoned industry professionals, and between them, have shipped tonnes of games.
Wickerbasket
Member
Well if I'm asking why Sony manages to put double the games out than MS do then why give an answer that is applicable to both of them?
If they are both producing games for next gen, that still doesn't explain why Sony has outputed almost double the games with fewer studios for the past 3 years.
I would too, unless he is only considering certain developers.
Because it takes 2-3 years for a new studio to make a new game?... I honestly don't know what answer you're looking for here.
We know Microsoft killed a lot of studios that cause the games to dry up but then they opened a crap ton of new studios that are working on next-gen games. I would think the reasoning for why we haven't seen new games on the Xbox 360 from these studios would be pretty obvious.
2006
Microsoft Studios purchases Lionhead Studios, known for developing critically acclaimed titles such as Black & White and Fable.
Microsoft Studios acquires Massive Incorporated, an in-game advertising company to provide additional revenues from their gaming platforms.
2007
Microsoft Studios announces the opening of a European office in Reading, England, headed by General manager Phil Spencer.
Microsoft Studios disbands FASA Studio, best known for their work on the MechWarrior series.
Halo developers Bungie announced that they would split from Microsoft Studios in order to become a privately held independent company.
2008
Microsoft Studios disbands casual games studio Carbonated Games.
Microsoft Studios announces the formation of Xbox Live Productions to develop "high-quality digital content" for Xbox Live Arcade.
Microsoft Studios begins recruiting for 343 Industries to take over development of the Halo franchise after the former developer, Bungie, regained independent status. 343 Industries was first officially revealed as steward of the Halo series in mid-2009 with the announcement of the animated project, Halo Legends.
2009
Microsoft Studios closes both Ensemble Studios and Aces Studio due to the effects of the late-2000s financial crisis and the restructuring of their game development studios.
In May, Microsoft acquires Canadian developer BigPark Inc. and integrates them into Microsoft Games.
Phil Spencer is promoted to Corporate Vice President of Microsoft Studios in order to replace the retiring Shane Kim.
Microsoft Studios forms Good Science Studio to develop software for Kinect.
2010
Microsoft Studios forms a Mobile Gaming studio focused on developing gaming and entertainment multimedia for Windows Phone.
Microsoft Studios expands Rare Ltd. to a second additional 90+ person in Digbeth, Birmingham to produce further titles.
Microsoft Studios forms new internal studio named Microsoft Game Studios - Vancouver.
Microsoft Studios forms new internal studio named Microsoft Flight Development Team to bring Microsoft Flight to PC.
2011
Microsoft Studios opens new development studios in Soho London, Redmond, Washington and Victoria, British Columbia.
Microsoft Studios acquires indie game developer Twisted Pixel Games, known for developing titles including 'Splosion Man and The Gunstringer.
2012
The Splatters is an Xbox Live Arcade game that was developed by a third party studio and published by Microsoft Studios in 2012
Phil Harrison, the former Sony world wide studios head joins Microsoft as head of Microsoft European Studios and IEB.
Microsoft Studios recruits for new development studios in Redmond — Microsoft Studios - Playful Learning.
Microsoft Studios recruits for new development studios in Redmond — Microsoft Studios - The Connected Experiences.
Microsoft Studios acquires developer Press Play, known for developing Tentacles and Max & the Magic Marker.
Microsoft Studios announces plans to expand Microsoft Studios Victoria to between 80-100 people.
Microsoft reveals the final name of their sports entertainment development studio - Skybox Sports - in a recruitment release.
Microsoft reveals plans to open a new games development studio in London, England to develop various free-to-play, online and social games for Xbox platforms.
Microsoft downsizes Microsoft Studios - Vancouver due to the cancellation of the Kinect family title "Project Columbia" and announces ongoing development of the free-to-play PC title Microsoft Flight has ceased due to portfolio evaluation.
Microsoft Studios Vancouver is officially renamed Black Tusk Studios. They aim to create Microsoft Studios' next big IP to rival their most successful series, Halo.
Microsoft recruits for a new development studio in Los Angeles, California to develop interactive Televised Entertainment for Microsoft platforms - Microsoft Studios - LA.
2013
Microsoft renames Microsoft Studios London to "Lift London" studios; a studio that would create games for the cloud and Microsoft claims is staffed by the most incredible talent ever seen in a start-up.
Microsoft Studios announces that the successor to the Xbox 360 will be officially revealed on May 21, 2013.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Games_Studio
United States
343 Industries – Halo series
Connected Experiences – Untitled Project – Design Large scale multiplayer title and help other first party studios
Good Science Studio – Kinect Adventures, Kinect Fun Labs
Kids and Lifestyle Entertainment – Next generation fitness project - Original IP
Microsoft Studios – Los Angeles – Next generation core cinematic title
Microsoft Studios – Mobile Gaming – ilomilo
Microsoft Studios – Redmond Publishing – Overseeing and co-developing multiple projects in conjunction with third party development studios
Platform Next Studios – Next generation core title
Playful Learning – Next generation family project
Skybox Sports – Next generation sports project
Turn 10 Studios – Forza Motorsport series
Twisted Pixel Games – The Gunstringer, LocoCycle
Xbox Live Productions – South Park Let's Go Tower Defense Play!, South Park: Tenorman's Revenge, Avatar Kinect
Europe
Lionhead Studios – Fable series, Black & White series, Unannounced MMO-like New IP - (2 team studio - Concurrent development of Fable: The Journey, Fable Heroes and an unannounced next generation title)
Lift London – Multiple Cloud Based gaming projects
Rare Ltd. – Banjo-Kazooie series, Viva Piñata series, Perfect Dark series, Kinect Sports series- (3 team studio - Concurrent development of various titles)
Soho Productions – Kinect Sesame Street TV
Press Play – Max: The Curse of Brotherhood
Canada
BigPark – Joy Ride series, Kinect Sports: Season Two
Black Tusk Studios – Untitled Project - (an unannounced next generation title)
Microsoft Studios Victoria – Untitled Project
Miles Quaritch
Member
Sony fans are getting a little anxious. They need to establish and maintain the message that Sony is the best before the 21st.
It's not as clear as you think, actually. You don't know how big Microsoft's teams are either.
It's only going to get worse, too.
Wickerbasket
Member
I think we're having a misunderstanding.
I was replying to iMax suggesting that MS's first party had been bigger than Sony's and he mentioned a comparison of quality for the last 3 years on metacritic. I took that to mean he was comparing them over those 3 years.
All I did was looked at the comparison, noticed that Sony had twice the games released each year and wondered how the fuck that happened.
Anyway, it makes a lot more sense if MS has only recently opened a lot of new studios.
Pretty much. Microsoft has significantly bulked up its internal teams to prepare for next-gen.
Someone said the Sony currently has a larger 1st Party and he retorted that by showing the current studios that exist right now that out number the amount Sony has open.
I'm not touching the rating or metacritic stuff with a 10 foot pole.
Wickerbasket
Member
Yeah I missed that, I just noticed the giant list of studios and thought I better read that post.
Makes a lot more sense now.
If MS don't deliver at least a 9/10 reveal, they can Fuck right off. Ain't nobody got time for that!
Brad Grenz
Member
According to who? Just off the top of your head? Because when they annonced the LA studio they mostly talked about transmedia experiences like that Seasame Street Kinect thing. That's also who's running point on their TV production deals, so unless we're counting a revival of the show Heroes a "core game" they shouldn't be bolded. Xbox Live Productions is also mostly responsible for original video programming, too, but they do occasionally make shitty licensed XBLA games like Tennorman's Revenge. Strike them, as well. And Kids & Lifestyle? Are you joking? They're supposedly working on a fitness title. Good Science? From the maker of Kinectimals? Big Park, the Joy Ride people? And speaking of Sesame Street, you've included the maker of that game, Soho for some reason. Your bolding here is a joke.
Realistically MS have the following internal studios working on core IP for next gen:
343
Turn 10
Lionhead
Black Tusk
Victoria
Platform Next
Maybe a team in Redmond
Only three of those have a track record to look at, so to pretend like we know MS first party can hold their own against Sony's is a bit premature, if not completely daft.
Anyone can go to Wikipedia and start adding up employment estimates. Even if you assume each of the new MS studios is over 200 people, SCEWW is way bigger.
Microsoft Studios – Los Angeles – Next generation core cinematic title
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Games_Studio
But whatever...
Estimates mean nothing.
So now Microsoft is not allowed to have new studios and we should only care about studios with a track record? What kind of crap is that?
343i and Playground Games didn't have a track record either and both released great games on their first try.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
May 21st = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nax7YiPDfI
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
There's nothing pretty about it that's for sure.
How do you get this out of the conversation?
The list he posted was based on a questionable at best foundation. Amount of studios don't mean a thing.
SOE was rumored to lay off 250 people 2 years ago. That means 10 Twisted Pixel sized studios just to lay off from one studio.
All that is being pointed out is that amount of studios is not a good metric.
That doesn't mean Sony has the better first-party and that MS does shitty games, it just means that the basis for his comparison was flawed.
Steverulez
Member
The way people come into this thread and others similar with agendas and just shit them up is really annoying. Gaf is usually such a great place to be on but recently its been extremely pro-Sony PS3/PS4 (Don't get me started on Vita threads though).