True. It's like one of those pythons or crocodiles people stupidly think will make good pets; cute as a baby, crazy as an adult.
Although unlike a python or crocodile, the Metroid can kill lots of people even as a baby.
Metroid: Samus Returns (Mercury Steam, Metroid 2 reimagining, 9/15) announced for 3DS
- Thread starter Cerium
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Although unlike a python or crocodile, the Metroid can kill lots of people even as a baby.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Anyone complaining about the baby metroid clearly don't know Metroid 2's plot.
Metroids only develop through that life cycle in SR388's living conditions. It's the same reason why they don't evolve through those stages it in the Prime games.
The BSL in Fusion actively tried to reproduce SR388. Don't ask me how there's a Queen in Other M.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Maybe that's what happens for metroids with the genetic ability to become a queen. I assume not all can, or Metroid 2 would have been a different game
huh, didn't know that. when was it explained, when adam was droning on in fusion?
In the opening narration Samus describes how reporting the extermination of the metroids and space pirates felt dull but momentous to her. Then time passed and people forgot about all that stuff and life got boring. She's been sitting around thinking about all this stuff. The baby metroid's sacrifice planted a seed of doubt in her about her single-mindedness, which didn't just apply to how she dealt with the metroids but how she dealt with other situations like with Adam. Instead of understanding Adam's decision she abandoned him, and when she came to understand it she still didn't try to make amends for making a difficult decision harder. In the end she comes to stand by all of those decisions. She would still try to save Adam's brother if she had to do it again and she still chooses to exterminate the metroids. So basically she reaffirms her identity instead of changing.
Yeah, she doesn't really care about it, it's more the fact that it sacrificed itself to save her made her think. When she encounters another baby in Other M she pauses briefly remembering the baby before deciding to kill it dead.
I hope they add a melee counter to Prime 4 too would be sick/badass.
I think it was explained in the Metroid 2 instruction booklet.
But to By2k's point about why the Metroid in Super didn't evolve just like that, going by what was said/implied in Other M, it was going to become a Queen Metroid, so it's "possible" the evolutionary process is different there.
In all those games you mention, he was part of a team assigned to make a Metroid game, in Other M he was allowed to do whatever, or that's what he communicates anyway (and god, it simply makes no sense that Nintendo wouldn't step in when hearing about design choices as baffling as the sideways wiimote being the default and only option for controls). Read up interviews about the game pre-release, he always makes it very clear that Other M is his baby (yeah) and that he seeks to communicate to players his true vision of Samus as a character.
Other M was ambitious, but only as a Metroid game. Given the right supervision and care it wouldn't have turned out the way it did.
If you're familiar with how the Star Wars trilogies worked, I see Other M being the prequel movies to the original trilogy as far as Sakamoto's involvement goes.
Honestly I'd really rather not talk about OM here, all it does is create unnecessary conflict in a thread about a game most people are excited for.
The Last One
Member
What I don't like about Metroid II is that there isn't that anticipation of finally encountering a Metroid since the game is focused around extermining them.
I love in the prime series where the First time we encounter a Metroid the game changes it's tone to something like a survival horror.
I love in the prime series where the First time we encounter a Metroid the game changes it's tone to something like a survival horror.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Oh, that'd explain it. Haven't read that since about '93.
Prime kinda ruins that moment by making the Metroid so hilariously easy.
Federation Force of all games has an incredible Metroid level.
No he was the director and lead designer and didn't have to compromise. With Other M he had to compromise with Hayashi and sort of with Kitanishi (D-Rockets).
I agee that those moments are usually neat in other Metroid games, but I think RoS still does it in an interesting way. If I remember right you never fight regular metroids until you reach the nest, and when they show up the music changes and they're as bothersome as ever... God, remembering that section of the game makes me all excited for the remake. The music and everything was perfect in the original, so creepy.
Interesting...
FloweryMarston
Member
I mean, if you saw the gameplay and remain skeptical i don't know what to tell you. Take the first few minutes of other m and it's full of tutorials, long cutscenes, while the first few minutes of samus returns shows her getting out of her ship, finding some strange things and shooting them. If you take the elevator it just shows her suit like in prime, no monologue, nothing.
They showed wall jumping, bomb jumping, the impressions are all positive.
While the wii u era disappointed me in many ways, you can't deny that nintendo is listening to their fans VERY closely, they doubted that nintendo would:
- make a hardcore open zelda where you can tackle the final boss anytime, without long tutorials and excessive handholding and they even solved small nitpicks like chests taking too long to open, item explanations that took too long, slow dialogue, unskippable cutscenes and many many things.
- make a 3d mario in the style of mario 64 and a game that runs away from the tired mushroom kingdom artstyle and playing too safe with the enemies. They also are solving small nitpicks like being able to get power moons continually without needing to exit the level every time.
- make a new mainline metroid prime game
- make a new 2d metroid game that goes back to the super/zero mission style of progression.
the notion that nintendo NEVER listens to their fans should go away very soon i hope.
They showed wall jumping, bomb jumping, the impressions are all positive.
While the wii u era disappointed me in many ways, you can't deny that nintendo is listening to their fans VERY closely, they doubted that nintendo would:
- make a hardcore open zelda where you can tackle the final boss anytime, without long tutorials and excessive handholding and they even solved small nitpicks like chests taking too long to open, item explanations that took too long, slow dialogue, unskippable cutscenes and many many things.
- make a 3d mario in the style of mario 64 and a game that runs away from the tired mushroom kingdom artstyle and playing too safe with the enemies. They also are solving small nitpicks like being able to get power moons continually without needing to exit the level every time.
- make a new mainline metroid prime game
- make a new 2d metroid game that goes back to the super/zero mission style of progression.
the notion that nintendo NEVER listens to their fans should go away very soon i hope.
But Sakamoto wanted Other M to be a sidescrolling classic Metroid game like this Metroid 2 remake, but Team Ninja insisted on making it 3D with first person aiming modes. Maybe this remake is more like what Other M would have been like if Sakamoto hadn't given in.
The first encounter is horrifying sure. And then you kill them easy by the dozens. Only the splitting phazons metroids at the end of the game have any chance of really be what they are supposed, almost impervious to everything other than heavy ordnance (and their color coded weakness).
While the whole trilogy is about The Metroid Prime, the Metroids themselves are often easy enemies. Which they shouldn't IMO. We'll see in MP4.
RadarScope1
Member
PokéKong;241124340 said:I find it funny that many people are worrying about MC working on this, when I'm personally more concerned about Sakamoto's involvement. Starting with Fusion the series became more guided, narrow, and focused on plot points which are apparently references to an old manga adaptation. and it all culminated in that mess of Other M when Sakamoto was given full creative reign. He appears to be listed as producer and not director this time, so that nay be a good sign.
But THIS troubles me deeply:
Yeah... and he made sure to mention this both on the Treehouse and on a developer diary video.
Everything in that text is true, though. It's an important part of the Metroid story. I haven't seen the whole context of the interview this came from, but it reads more like a plain statement about the original game than some kind of cryptic insight into the new one. I think you're reading way too much into it. The game will certainly have more of a story than the first three games. That's just how games are made these days. Hopefully it's just in keeping with the minimalist style that fans have said they like over the years.
Oh I know, but I think I recall from an Iwata asks that it was him who insisted on retaining the control setup despite the game being changed to a 3D one. I don't think everything bad with the game is 100% his fault, but I don't think the liberty he was seemingly given for the project is unrelated either.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Can we talk about how out of all the studios doing metroidvanias MercurySteam is the one studio that got to work on both?
Kind of crazy.
We sure hope so! Metroid 5 needs to happen.
He wrote the story. He chose Samus' English VA too.
I'm gonna let that sink in with you for a while.
I don't know who thought the heels were a good idea, though. That guy's a moron.
The way it went down according to the interviews is that Sakamoto insisted on the game being played with sideways wiimote and rejected Team Ninja's desire to make the game 3D. Team Ninja made a demo using the sideways wiimote in 3D and he gave in.
Sakamoto's insistence on using sideways wiimote was weird, but Team Ninja's insistence on making the game 3D was also awful cuz 2D Metroid rocks. And by their powers combined they created something mediocre.
Still, Other M had some good ideas like making Samus more agile, and I'm glad they haven't completely abandoned those ideas. The melee counter looks great.
The Last One
Member
Maybe they should punish more the player for let the Metroids grab them. In prime game you just need to turn into morphball and place a bombe, it's really easy.
I totally forgot about this in Metroid II. I guess I should replay it soon, will try the fan-made remake.
I agree that it's too easy im Prime 1, which is weird since that game has many tough parts. This definitely could be one of them.
TheMoon
Member
The thing is, since half the game of most Metroids is finding upgrades, creating a creature that is scary enough the whole game is kind of moot but it being at key moments is the goal I think.
The first Metroid you encounter, you barely have enough missiles to kill one and no ice beam. ''Oh shit'' you go.
But the fifth, not only you got more missiles but you also have more energy tanks, this makes the fights less stressful. (And you get used to it by now).
But then, which is kind of the force of the concept of Metroid 2 I think, is that they throw a meaner and bigger metroid to you.
If made well, this ''concept'' can make Omega Metroids a force to be reckoned with well until the player has almost all upgrades.
And be seeing how much damage Gamma Metroids do, it might be where they are going. And nothing prevent them of using nasty level designs and well... having more than one at the same time.
Personally, I'm excited
(This does not take account player skill levels where some people can pretty much kill anything with one health point left)
The first Metroid you encounter, you barely have enough missiles to kill one and no ice beam. ''Oh shit'' you go.
But the fifth, not only you got more missiles but you also have more energy tanks, this makes the fights less stressful. (And you get used to it by now).
But then, which is kind of the force of the concept of Metroid 2 I think, is that they throw a meaner and bigger metroid to you.
If made well, this ''concept'' can make Omega Metroids a force to be reckoned with well until the player has almost all upgrades.
And be seeing how much damage Gamma Metroids do, it might be where they are going. And nothing prevent them of using nasty level designs and well... having more than one at the same time.
Personally, I'm excited
(This does not take account player skill levels where some people can pretty much kill anything with one health point left)
Honestly the only way I could see this selling well is if they get it over to the Switch as well. Metroid 2 is not an easy sell, and remakes are not usually big sellers either. It faces an uphill climb even if it reviews as well as Zero Mission or Fusion.
I can certainly see the scenario of MS getting more Nintendo do work though, although based on comments it sounds like this game had a troubled development so who knows.
A remake of Metroid 2 is something a lot of people have wanted for a long time since the original is more impossible to play than the original Metroid.
I think a Switch port will come in a year, because that's about how long it took them to port it to PS3/360/PC.
TheGreatLugia
Banned
About how long is Zero Mission? In terms of the 2D entries, I've played through Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion, but Zero Mission wasn't available on the North American eshop when I first wanted to check it out.
Bananastand
Member
About 3/4 hours for your first time I think.
10 hours is probably a generous estimate for a first playthrough if you get lost a lot? Probably closer to half that?
I mostly just replay Super Metroid a lot so I could be misrembering. But it isn't long.
TheDinoman
Member
Ultimately I think the problem with Other M's gameplay is there's basically two completely different visions and directions clashing directly against each other.
Sakamoto's vision was obviously just another one of his 2(.5)D Metroid games, complete with simple 2D controls. Team Ninja's vision on the other hand, was just another one of their 3D character action games with slick and stylish combat/animations. They tried to make a compromise between both directions and it just didn't really work. They should of chosen one path.
It probably should of just been 2.5D, but I do kinda agree with The Gaming Brit that a full fledged Metroid themed character action game utilizing beam combos and shine-sparking and stuff could of been neat if done right.
Sakamoto's vision was obviously just another one of his 2(.5)D Metroid games, complete with simple 2D controls. Team Ninja's vision on the other hand, was just another one of their 3D character action games with slick and stylish combat/animations. They tried to make a compromise between both directions and it just didn't really work. They should of chosen one path.
It probably should of just been 2.5D, but I do kinda agree with The Gaming Brit that a full fledged Metroid themed character action game utilizing beam combos and shine-sparking and stuff could of been neat if done right.
TheMoon
Member
If all those "Metroid fans" who managed to cry for years would just put their money were their fucking huge ass mouths are then we'd be good.
seems right, started it a few hours ago and am about ready to meet the mother of babies
My money is very much going there
. (And no it didn't go to Other M or Federation Force. I find there to be no point in being there for a commercial franchise when it isn't delivering what I want. That isn't a demerit to being a fan).StoppedInTracks
Member
Heh that's actually my plan as well. I avoided them like the true garbage they are but now playing MP4 without playing them first will feel "weird" to me. Kind of incomplete.
Hopefully they are both dirt cheap nowadays.
StoppedInTracks
Member
And it's a Spain based studio as well.
Crazy x2!
Maybe after working both on Castlevania and Metroid they will be able to create their own, original Metroidvania. Lots of companies (indie) tried and succeeded (Ori, Guacamelee, Hollow Knight, Outland).
I'm pretty sure Nintendo is aware of the risks involved and that's the reason they only called it Samus Returns, without a number. Most people won't know this is a remake before buying it, and the people who do won't have a problem because they're probably part of the group that celebrated AM2R and are probably happy that Nintendo is producing their own take on a M2 remake.
Also I have to imagine by now Nintendo are wise enough to give the game a budget comparable to reasonable sales expectations for a Metroid game lol. And honestly, a low poly 2.5D game made with a pre-existing 3rd party engine for 3DS with no Switch port is as budget of a project as it gets, IMO.
In the gameplay demo their third save is at Area 4 there are 16 metroids left and the file is at 1:04:47 and 5.3% completion.
In the original game there were 11 areas. Considering 16 metroids left is where the original Area 4 would be. That implies they are still going to have at least 11 areas, but the areas are much bigger and more complex. You also encounter later stages of the life-cycle earlier, as the first Zeta normally isn't encountered until Area 6. Makes sense since the original game only had 3 Zetas total.
In the original game there were 11 areas. Considering 16 metroids left is where the original Area 4 would be. That implies they are still going to have at least 11 areas, but the areas are much bigger and more complex. You also encounter later stages of the life-cycle earlier, as the first Zeta normally isn't encountered until Area 6. Makes sense since the original game only had 3 Zetas total.
AmayaPapaya
Banned
To me, it's weird that people judge Tenabe's ability to create a Metroid game by Federation Force. The game was an obvious spin off, not meant to be exactly like a traditional Metroid game. It was about the Federation and had co-op, a soccer game, etc...For what it was, I heard it was a good game. Spin-off quality.
Not75Drops
Member
Do the Metroids become less resistant to Samus' regular weaponary the more they evolve? I know they become stronger and have more health, but that Alpha Metroid in the demo went down pretty easily, while in Super, you would usually need to freeze Metroids before being able to damage them.
Only the babies require freezing. Babies still require freezing in Metroid 2, but you don't encounter them until towards the end.
forknknife
Banned
This game looks super fun and fast but man, the 3DS resolution is really a big bummer...
TheMoon
Member
Neither of them is "true garbage" ...
"not what I want" != "bad game"
Yup, spot on. But it's hard to see that for most through all the red from those blood-shot rage eyes.
Do they, though? I haven't seen much worry about him being the producer yet again. And I don't think he has much of a leading role outside of dictating a creative frame for the Prime projects anyway.
And most of the criticism for FF comes from the fact that we find it baffling he deemed that game something that would appeal to anyone or that was a good idea to release in the context it did. Which is pretty damn valid all things considered.
Claude Augario
Member
Tenabe was just catching the Sakamoto runoff. People spent so many years making up false rumors about how Sakamoto hates women and harasses Retro employees as some sort of mean spirited revenge fanfiction over Other M that it only seemed natural to teach Tenabe a lesson too for Federation Force. But he never caught it as bad since most of the pondscum in the fanbase altered their agendas at that point.