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[Three]

All AAA games have huge marketing deals. That’s the way it goes. The point is Microsoft are still putting big money into AAA games which people
Said wouldn’t happen because of being free with gamepass day 1

Right, but why ignore the topic being discussed to post irrelevant stuff then with t-shirts and 'macce' pads?

MS are putting big money into f2p type GaaS games. You don't even need a gamepass sub to play Halo multiplayer. It's f2p. They hoped to make that money back by selling MTXs and battle passes but this isn't the case for games like God of War.

Will Sony put their in development GaaS games and Destiny 3 or whatever on PS+ Extra? probably.

You took my reply to that topic:

Halo infinite isn't even a subscription service game at heart, it was primarily a f2p GaaS multiplayer game. With Halo Infinite they aimed to be the next fortnite and spent big. Unfortunately it didn't gain much traction. Now they are buying their 'Fortnite' like franchise in CoD/CoD Warzone.

And turned it into a "yeah well look at this tshirt for sale" whataboutism.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

This is quite hyperbolic. There are specific studios that have had issues. 343i being chief among them. Rare, Obsidian, Coalition, Mojang, and Playground have all delivered multiple titles on time and with good scores. Even 343i's last title that while delayed and still currently unfinished has over an 85 Metacritic score.

You rarely hear ANYTHING about the internal workings of Sony. When the Series consoles launched there were numerous interviews with developers, and people were flown to MS to preview the hardware. Sony did the road to PS5 presentation and a video they did internally showing the hardware. It took months for external hardware reviewers to do a PS5 chip teardown and there are still aspects of the system people don't know. MS is always announcing new features and holding conferences to show aspects of their platform.

Halo is an easy whipping boy but like it or not the core gameplay is sound and if they can get more content it will be a fantastic package. I wouldn't bet against MS or Halo to crumble and disappear any time soon.

Only someone unwilling to be honest with themselves would say this is hyperbolic. Sony has consistently and reliably delivered multiple AAA titles per year. For the past 10+ years they had 2-3 major titles ready to go. Whether those games are your cup of tea is subjective, but they've come and been multi-million sellers.

MS has nothing anywhere remotely close to that track record. The only thing that is consistent with them is delays. There is no reason with their studios that there shouldn't be at least 2 major releases every year. I have consistently given praise to Coalition and Playground, but they can't release a title every year.

"They just got these studios, it takes time" Bullshit. The studios they acquired existed 10+ years before MS ever acquired them and would have been working on projects for ages.

Show me the AAA quality games on a consistent basis.

 

[Godot25]

However, MS has not shown me in any way that they can competently manage first party development. Every game gets delayed 50+ times. Issues about studio management etc. THe way MS has handled the Halo franchise tells you everything you need to know about how their management works.

Really? It's not like Sony's studios had their own share of problems right? Sony Santa Monica almost got shut down after their new IP was cancelled, Sony Japan was actually closed, Bend spent two years after Days Gone release fiddling with their fingers and just got to making a new game. Crunch problems in Naughty Dog...

It's more like "even Sony studios have their problems, but people are overlooking them because other studios are managing to produce fine games." Also it is not helping that Microsoft is really leaky ship and everything is going to the public.

And it's logical. When you have barren 2022 first-party wise, people are scorching every report from XGS with magnifying glass. But in 2023 nobody will probably care about problems in XGS because when you will have Minecraft Legends, Forza Motorsport, Redfall, Starfield, ARA and Diablo IV in first 6 months of 2023, you will not give a shit.

Same with delays. It's funny to bring PlayStation to conversation about delays, when they are masters of delays. And that's not bad thing mind you, as *insert Miyamoto's quote.* Just don't use Sony as an example. Because Horizon was supposed to be out in 2021, same for Ragnarok and Gran Turismo 7. And in PS4 era delays of first-party games were also common.

 

[phil_t98]

Right, but why ignore the topic being discussed to post irrelevant stuff then with t-shirts and 'macce' pads?

MS are putting big money into f2p type GaaS games. You don't even need a gamepass sub to play Halo multiplayer. It's f2p. They hoped to make that money back by selling MTXs and battle passes but this isn't the case for games like God of War.

Will Sony put their in development GaaS games and Destiny 3 or whatever on PS+ Extra? probably.

You took my reply to that topic:



And turned it into a "yeah well look at this tshirt for sale" whataboutism.

You were ignoring what I was speaking about in that investment into games is still happening with the sub service Microsoft have and they haven’t cooled their spend.

You then show a load of advertising with halo on for some reason which wasn’t in line with the discussion and I showed all company’s do it reguardless. In fact what you showed backs up what I said in terms of the spend not going down on games that are on gamepass

 

[Fess]

So where did the $78 billion come from to pay for the acquisitions?
So gamepass cost MS nothing to start and to sustain? Don't forget thr RROD probably ate most of if not all of MS profits in 360 gen.

MS as a company are obviously doing big investments and as a company they’re still doing fine. But I don’t think Gamepass itself is burning money, I think they gain way more than people think on the recurring payments and I think the percentage who use cheap tricks are way lower as well.

 

[SLB1904]

Phil Spencer Says Game Pass Is Sustainable, Not Burning Cash

"No. Game Pass is very, very sustainable right now."

www.gamespot.com

there you go

Is this a joke. Since when sustainable means profits?
We know is sustainable or it would get axed

 

[drganon]

Is this a joke. Since when sustainable means profits?
We know is sustainable or it would get axed

Rob Peter to pay off Paul.

 

[Leyasu]

Is this a joke. Since when sustainable means profits?
We know is sustainable or it would get axed

Rob Peter to pay off Paul.

It depends on what they are doing/using the money generated for

 

[Godot25]

It depends on what they are doing/using the money generated for

Funnelling them back into Game Pass deals to warrant future growth.

I mean. It's pretty logical. If you want to aggressively grow your service you have to sacrifice profits and send all potential profits back to the service.

 

[Leyasu]

Funnelling them back into Game Pass deals to warrant future growth.

I mean. It's pretty logical. If you want to aggressively grow your service you have to sacrifice profits and send all potential profits back to the service.

Obviously. So are they robbing Peter to pay Paul? And losing money hand over fist like lots of people claim that they are?

 

[Three]

You were ignoring what I was speaking about in that investment into games is still happening with the sub service Microsoft have and they haven’t cooled their spend.

You then show a load of advertising with halo on for some reason which wasn’t in line with the discussion and I showed all company’s do it reguardless. In fact what you showed backs up what I said in terms of the spend not going down on games that are on gamepass

because you're mixing up two conversations. The halo advertising I showed was in line with the discussion I was having with W Wohc and had nothing to do with your conversation. He was suggesting there was barely any marketing for halo amd I showed there was a lot. Halo is a different type of business model. It's a f2p game trying to sell mtxs. it spent big to try and become the next big f2p game and recoup costs from mtxs and battle passes. When it comes to the type of games Playstation makes your argument doesn't work. Single player games with no mtxs will see their budgets cut.

I never ignored what you said whatsoever. You can go back and look and see where you mixed up conversations in this post:

Halo infinite isn't even a subscription service game at heart, it was primarily a f2p GaaS multiplayer game. With Halo Infinite they aimed to be the next fortnite and spent big. Unfortunately it didn't gain much traction. Now they are buying their 'Fortnite' like franchise in CoD/CoD Warzone.

 

[phil_t98]

Is this a joke. Since when sustainable means profits?
We know is sustainable or it would get axed

Sustainable means not loosing money. Now nobody knows what profits there is but sustainable means it can run on its own.

 

[phil_t98]

Because 343 spent years and years on it and the slipspace engine development which I'm sure they kind of regret now, plus its marketing budget was huge and a large part of the budget.

M this is where you jumped in the conversation I was having with somebody else not me jumping in on your conversation

 

[DarkMage619]

Only someone unwilling to be honest with themselves would say this is hyperbolic. Sony has consistently and reliably delivered multiple AAA titles per year. For the past 10+ years they had 2-3 major titles ready to go. Whether those games are your cup of tea is subjective, but they've come and been multi-million sellers.

MS has nothing anywhere remotely close to that track record. The only thing that is consistent with them is delays. There is no reason with their studios that there shouldn't be at least 2 major releases every year. I have consistently given praise to Coalition and Playground, but they can't release a title every year.

"They just got these studios, it takes time" Bullshit. The studios they acquired existed 10+ years before MS ever acquired them and would have been working on projects for ages.

Show me the AAA quality games on a consistent basis.

Tons of studios delayed their games this year. Harry Potter, Forspoken, Replaced, Stalker, and Kill the Justice League all delayed. I assume you aren't blaming MS for those delays. Plus Horizon, GT7, and God of War were delayed from last year to hit this year.

So yes you are being hyperbolic with the criticisms. Like I said I'll grant 343i but even they delivered a critically acclaimed title that currently is starved for new content. If next year comes and goes with no first party releases from MS, something is wrong but right now multiple studios are delaying games it's not an exclusive MS issue.

 

[Three]

M this is where you jumped in the conversation I was having with somebody else not me jumping in on your conversation

Bloody hell, don't be so sensitive. I didnt say you jumped in to my conversation. You said:

You were ignoring what I was speaking about...
You then show a load of advertising with halo on for some reason which wasn’t in line with the discussion

I'm saying I didn't ignore what you said and I didn't just randomly decide to post Halo advertising. I replied to you about Halo being a f2p game and making money on mtxs and my post showing Halo advertising was to a different person who was saying there was barely any Halo marketing. Hope that makes sense. I wasn't saying don't jump into my conversation.

 

[SLB1904]

Sustainable means not loosing money.

That's not what sustainable means either.
Haven't you heard the sustainable loss term before?

 

[phil_t98]

Bloody hell, don't be so sensitive. I didnt say you jumped in to my conversation. You said:


I'm saying I didn't ignore what you said and I didn't just randomly decide to post Halo advertising. I replied to you about Halo being a f2p game and making money on mtxs and my post showing Halo advertising was to a different person who was saying there was barely any Halo marketing. Hope that makes sense. I wasn't saying don't jump into my conversation.

Makes more sense now lol

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Tons of studios delayed their games this year. Harry Potter, Forspoken, Replaced, Stalker, and Kill the Justice League all delayed. I assume you aren't blaming MS for those delays. Plus Horizon, GT7, and God of War were delayed from last year to hit this year.

So yes you are being hyperbolic with the criticisms. Like I said I'll grant 343i but even they delivered a critically acclaimed title that currently is starved for new content. If next year comes and goes with no first party releases from MS, something is wrong but right now multiple studios are delaying games it's not an exclusive MS issue.

Then how is it that Sony has been able to deliver 2-3 major releases every year? It's simple. They have their ducks in a row when it comes to game development. Delays happen, but when it is a non-stop pattern, it reflects on management not the studios. Even with delays, Sony finds a way. MS, just delays.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Really? It's not like Sony's studios had their own share of problems right? Sony Santa Monica almost got shut down after their new IP was cancelled, Sony Japan was actually closed, Bend spent two years after Days Gone release fiddling with their fingers and just got to making a new game. Crunch problems in Naughty Dog...

It's more like "even Sony studios have their problems, but people are overlooking them because other studios are managing to produce fine games." Also it is not helping that Microsoft is really leaky ship and everything is going to the public.

And it's logical. When you have barren 2022 first-party wise, people are scorching every report from XGS with magnifying glass. But in 2023 nobody will probably care about problems in XGS because when you will have Minecraft Legends, Forza Motorsport, Redfall, Starfield, ARA and Diablo IV in first 6 months of 2023, you will not give a shit.

Same with delays. It's funny to bring PlayStation to conversation about delays, when they are masters of delays. And that's not bad thing mind you, as *insert Miyamoto's quote.* Just don't use Sony as an example. Because Horizon was supposed to be out in 2021, same for Ragnarok and Gran Turismo 7. And in PS4 era delays of first-party games were also common.

Sony has 2-3 major releases every year. MS is lucky to have 1.

So NO, they're not remotely close. There is literally no argument you can make that can escape the fact that it's a non-stop consistent pattern of delays with MS, while Sony has exclusives always ready to go. None.

 

[phil_t98]

Then how is it that Sony has been able to deliver 2-3 major releases every year? It's simple. They have their ducks in a row when it comes to game development. Delays happen, but when it is a non-stop pattern, it reflects on management not the studios. Even with delays, Sony finds a way. MS, just delays.

So what way does Sony find? They didn’t have any major releases last christmas. wasn't God of War originally meant to be released last year? from the first reveal

 

[Bernd Lauert]

That's not what sustainable means either.
Haven't you heard the sustainable loss term before?

That's mental gymnastics. The CEO of Microsoft gaming explicitly said that they're not burning any money. Simple as.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's mental gymnastics. The CEO of Microsoft gaming explicitly said that they're not burning any money. Simple as.

Their last several GP drops have proven as such.

 

[phil_t98]

Their last several GP drops have proven as such.

what's that even meant to mean

 

[DeepEnigma]

what's that even meant to mean

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

 

[JohnnyFootball]

So what way does Sony find? They didn’t have any major releases last christmas. wasn't God of War originally meant to be released last year? from the first reveal

They had Deathloop and Horizon Forbidden West less than 6 months apart....

 

[phil_t98]

They had Deathloop and Horizon Forbidden West less than 6 months apart....

Again horizon was delayed past its release date, Deathloop
Ain’t a Sony game is it? What did they have released in time for Christmas last year?

Xbox had forza horizon 5 and Halo (which was delayed) they had flight sim launch earlier in the year to

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Again horizon was delayed past its release date, Deathloop
Ain’t a Sony game is it? What did they have released in time for Christmas last year?

Xbox had forza horizon 5 and Halo (which was delayed) they had flight sim launch earlier in the year to

You have literally failed to comprehend the point I am making in every single fucking way. Even WITH delays, once again, Sony always has 2-3 exclusives ready to go every single year for their platform. This makes ANY argument for MS you have meaningless. MS has simply and utterly failed in this regard. They are lucky to have 1 major release in a year and when that release comes it is usually after being delayed multiple times. There are TONS of issues I have with the Sony Playstation, but game releases are not one of them. For Xbox, that is THE issue. For Sony every time there is a delay, it's usually for a few months and there end up being multiple exclusives per year. For MS, it "yeah, we had a delay, but next year will be the year the games drop...." I really truly hope MS turns this around. But I am tired of this being a recurrent issue under Phil Spencer and I am even more sick of Xbox fanboys defending this crap. There are good delays that are needed for polish and there are delays due to incompetence.

Whether those exclusives are everyone's cup of tea is up to debate. I am personally not buying The Last of Us Remake until it's much cheaper, but it IS there.

 

[Menzies]

You have literally failed to comprehend the point I am making in every single fucking way. Even WITH delays, once again, Sony always has 2-3 exclusives ready to go every single year for their platform. This makes ANY argument for MS you have meaningless. MS has simply and utterly failed in this regard. They are lucky to have 1 major release in a year and when that release comes it is usually after being delayed multiple times. There are TONS of issues I have with the Sony Playstation, but game releases are not one of them. For Xbox, that is THE issue.

Whether those exclusives are everyone's cup of tea is up to debate. I am personally not buying The Last of Us Remake until it's much cheaper, but it IS there.

I think you need to recognize the reality and reset expectations. It is only very recently that Microsoft had a parity in number of internal studios. Many of these are building up head counts and moving into new offices.

The point stands and it is Microsoft's problem to fix, fair enough. It also won't happen overnight, but I think will most likely sort itself out by next year.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I think you need to recognize the reality and reset expectations. It is only very recently that Microsoft had a parity in number of internal studios. Many of these are building up head counts and moving into new offices.

The point stands and it is Microsoft's problem to fix, fair enough. It also won't happen overnight, but I think will most likely sort itself out by next year.

No. Even under the MS umbrella, these studios have existed for 10+ years. Games were in development at those studios long before MS acquired them. No reason with all their acquisitions that they shouldn't be dropping 2-3 major releases a year. None.

 

[Menzies]

No. Even under the MS umbrella, these studios have existed for 10+ years. Games were in development at those studios long before MS acquired them. No reason with all their acquisitions that they shouldn't be dropping 2-3 major releases a year. None.

Yes, but there were literally 5 of them a short while ago.

 

[solidus12]

A question for Xbox players: Are you tired of waiting for games to come on Xbox?

I think the argument of first party games hitting gamepass day and date should not be used as a win for Microsoft considering the barren year they’ve had as well as all the previous years…

 

[phil_t98]

You have literally failed to comprehend the point I am making in every single fucking way. Even WITH delays, once again, Sony always has 2-3 exclusives ready to go every single year for their platform. This makes ANY argument for MS you have meaningless. MS has simply and utterly failed in this regard. They are lucky to have 1 major release in a year and when that release comes it is usually after being delayed multiple times. There are TONS of issues I have with the Sony Playstation, but game releases are not one of them. For Xbox, that is THE issue. For Sony every time there is a delay, it's usually for a few months and there end up being multiple exclusives per year. For MS, it "yeah, we had a delay, but next year will be the year the games drop...." I really truly hope MS turns this around. But I am tired of this being a recurrent issue under Phil Spencer and I am even more sick of Xbox fanboys defending this crap. There are good delays that are needed for polish and there are delays due to incompetence.

Whether those exclusives are everyone's cup of tea is up to debate. I am personally not buying The Last of Us Remake until it's much cheaper, but it IS there.

So
What 2 to 3 games did Sony have last year? Come on AAA games?

The thing is they were hit by covid and had to delay games like everybody else, last year it hit them. This year it’s hit Microsoft.
Don’t act like it isn’t a thing in the gaming industry.

Last years releases for Sony was meant to be

God of way
Horizon zero dawn 2
Gran Turismo 7

They have all hit this year.

Your missing the point that Microsoft do release game and they do get delays just like Sony games do. Stop acting like it doesn’t effect everybody

Most usual years with Microsoft it’s usually
A gears game plus a forza game
A halo game plus a forza game

Microsoft usually have at least 2 major games every year so stop acting like they don’t, they year they been hit with delays like Sony were

Microsoft is Metacritic's Publisher of the Year After 100% Good Rating

Microsoft, or Xbox Game Studios, has become Metacritic gaming publisher of the year for 2021 after every game managed to garner a "good" or "great" rating.

www.gamerevolution.com

According to that Microsoft released 5 major games last year

 

[Three]

God of way
Horizon zero dawn 2
Gran Turismo 7

God of War
Horizon Forbidden West


As for games last year you had
Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
Returnal

The Christmas before that year
Spiderman Miles Morales
Demon's Souls

 

[phil_t98]

God of War
Horizon Forbidden West


As for games last year you had
Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart
Returnal

The Christmas before that year
Spiderman Miles Morales
Demon's Souls

Am I not wrong though? God of war, Gran turismo and horizon were all delayed to 2022 after an initial reveal for 2021

 

[DonJimbo]

Obligatory GIF:

Jimbo the Monkey Face

 

[Three]

Am I not wrong though? God of war, Gran turismo and horizon were all delayed to 2022 after an initial reveal for 2021

No, you're absolutely right. I was just joking around with the game names you used.

 

[phil_t98]

No, you're absolutely right. I was just joking around with the game names you used.

I am typing on my phone and it autocorrects everything lol I also didn’t have time hahaha

End of the day delays happen

 

[johnjohn]

A question for Xbox players: Are you tired of waiting for games to come on Xbox?

I think the argument of first party games hitting gamepass day and date should not be used as a win for Microsoft considering the barren year they’ve had as well as all the previous years…

Huh? MS has delivered plenty of games... Not sure why you're so worried about MS getting wins....

 

[bootaski]

What do you guys think of the following idea for improving ps plus premium in comparison to game pass: giving subscribers one free first party game to own, of their choice, once a year - any first party game, including day 1 new releases like gow: ragnarok, for example. PS premium subs would get to own a new release, instead of just renting like with game pass, and would get more value out of their sub compared to ps extra

 

[DarkMage619]

Then how is it that Sony has been able to deliver 2-3 major releases every year? It's simple. They have their ducks in a row when it comes to game development. Delays happen, but when it is a non-stop pattern, it reflects on management not the studios. Even with delays, Sony finds a way. MS, just delays.

Like I said talk to me next year if MS fails to deliver any titles. MS got publisher of the year just last year. Not too shabby for a company that has only ever delayed. You've already acknowledged that even the mighty Sony delays games and no one is immune.

Huh? MS has delivered plenty of games... Not sure why you're so worried about MS getting wins....

Very true and only need to look back ONE year to see MS get a whole mess of wins. I'm sure he feels much better now.

 

[Menzies]

What do you guys think of the following idea for improving ps plus premium in comparison to game pass: giving subscribers one free first party game to own, of their choice, once a year - any first party game, including day 1 new releases like gow: ragnarok, for example. PS premium subs would get to own a new release, instead of just renting like with game pass, and would get more value out of their sub compared to ps extra

The problem would be the luck of the draw in what you select.

Say I pick GT:7 and then next month Sony decides to roll that into PS Extra, that's a bit more than just unfortunate. It's not a bad idea overall though.

 

[quest]

A question for Xbox players: Are you tired of waiting for games to come on Xbox?

I think the argument of first party games hitting gamepass day and date should not be used as a win for Microsoft considering the barren year they’ve had as well as all the previous years…

Sure if they weren't doing anything about it. They spent 80 billion dollars on the situation. Now is just time to wait on the studios to produce. Unless you think every studio is just doing nothing and everything will be canceled . Many of the studios have released games since being purchased just because of contracts they were not exclusives. Obsidian, double fine, tango works, inexile, arkane for example have all released non exclusive games since being purchased. I think playground has released 2 exclusives since purchased.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Indeed because there is no way on God's earth that I'm paying £70 for new games. And even Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart has never dropped below £50 yet.

Yup.

I just flat out refuse to buy games at full price nowadays, it’s not going to happen.

 

[Esppiral]

Shouldn't the title say "would" instead of " "will"? Is MS assuming that Sony will end up putting their first party games day one on the service?

 

[bootaski]

The problem would be the luck of the draw in what you select.

Say I pick GT:7 and then next month Sony decides to roll that into PS Extra, that's a bit more than just unfortunate. It's not a bad idea overall though.

Maybe have the free pick be limited to a pool of games that won't be rolled into Extra for a couple of years?

 

[Menzies]

Maybe have the free pick be limited to a pool of games that won't be rolled into Extra for a couple of years?

That's robbing Peter to pay Paul. You increase Premium subs, but then you sacrifice growth in Extra due to the content lacking. Gotta feed the subscription beast with regular content else people will unsubscribe.

The other obvious issue is: what's stopping anyone from subscribing to premium for 1 month, getting a game which retails at $70 and then cancelling?

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

damn , microsoft is really concerned for sony

why?

Cause Sony is really concerned for MS after it bought ActiBlizz.

 

[kikii]

 

[Menzies]

That's some major clickbait drivel.

To any level-headed person applying an ounce of reason, you would understand that terms such as 'unique', 'original', and 'must-have' have different interpretations in legalese, versus how consumers interpret them.