bitbydeath
Member
Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding it.The console will run Steam, I keep repeating myself with you it seems
Why create/buy a PC if it's the exact same thing minus the BC?
Just a cost situation?
[MLiD] PS6 Dockable Handheld Leak: AMD Canis Specs CRUSH XBOX Ally X!
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
- News Rumor Hardware
Why create/buy a PC if it's the exact same thing minus the BC?
Just a cost situation?
Kataploom
Gold Member
Second analog was literally the C button into a stick since it was literally the same functionality, but I can see how they thought it was better to have as a stick after DualShock, CDs were industry standard format, PCs, Sega, music player etc used it, of anything Nintendo ditched them (with bad results)
Agent X
Member
That makes some sense. I haven't been following the PS6 tech talk and speculation too closely, but I do recall reading about the PS5 "low power" mode, and I see how it could be applied here.
I still don't have a PS5, so I might not be able to try it for myself anytime soon. I'd be interested in hearing from others how it turns out.
If developer intervention is required, then how would the system handle older PS5 games that weren't updated to take advantage of this new feature?
nial
Gold Member
It probably wouldn't play them, but I don't think it'll be much of an issue when 1. a huge chunk of these games also had PS4 versions and 2. newer games with PS6 Portable SKUs will be the main focus of the system.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Yes you're right I remember how Nintendo came up with the completely new concept of releasing a handheld that can be docked to a dock station to both charge the unit and to connect it to a TV with TV output with the Nintendo Switch!
Oh wait what I'm saying? Sony was the one that came up with that with the PSP Go 7 1/2 years before the Switch came out never mind.
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nial
Gold Member
It's kinda crazy how ahead to the curve that thing was, regarding this and being digital only.Yes you're right I remember how Nintendo came up with the completely new concept of releasing a handheld that can be docked to a dock station to both charge the unit and to connect it to a TV with TV output with the Nintendo Switch!
Oh wait what I'm saying? Sony was the one that came up with that with the PSP Go 7 1/2 years before the Switch came out never mind.
Tobimacoss
Member
There's no porting needed, the games are already ported to Xbox environment which runs on Windows kernel.
You do translation when going from one supported architecture to another like x64 to ARM64 translation. Or when going from Windows kernel calls to Linux kernel (Proton).
You do emulation of defunct hardware on more powerful hardware. Like Xbox 360 emulation.
But when it's Windows 11 NT kernel running Windows technologies on the same architecture and even the same AMD APUs, there's no porting, translation, or emulation needed.
Windows 11 Home has the ability to run the following:
Windows SDK created and unpackaged Steam/Epic Win32 games.
GDK created and MSIXVC packaged Win32 Xbox games (Xbox PC/PC Gamepass games).
Windows SDK created and appX packaged WinRT UWP games. (Gears of War 4 and Quantum Break etc).
Xbox OS has ability to run the following:
GDKX created and MSIXVC packaged Win32 games optimized for AMD hardware. (Series games)
XDK created and XVC packaged WinRT ERA games. Plus the older gen emulators. (Xbox One games)
My point is, the Windows 11 NT kernel runs all those games, and it can easily do so in a converged OS.
Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire
This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.
news.xbox.com
Have you watched the video?
I am going to disagree. I will believe Lisa Su's words for now, I think she might be a slightly higher level AMD source than you or MLID.
Publishers aren't ok with Play Anywhere because even though the difference between GDK and GDKX is shrinking, there's still some extra work involved supporting games designed to scale for hundreds of PC configurations and Nvidia hardware. They don't want to do additional work without charging additional costs.
But if everything is running on the exact same APUs, Magnus and Medusa Point, then there's no additional work involved for the publishers. To them, it will be no different than another Xbox console sold, as the device will need to be sold as a Xbox branded device for that sole purpose. MS has likely already had it in the contracts for games to support all Xbox devices regardless of form factors.
Otherwise neither Sony nor MS could get Console library BC on handhelds.
I think the portfolio of Xbox devices they are working on, the ones with the AMD APUs will all share the Console library BC and FC, and Play Anywhere will remain as a program for non AMD PCs.
With today's announcement of Core and Standard tiers also getting PC games, they are likely setting the stage for those tiers being usable on PC form factors if those form factors also have Console BC.
Worst case scenario, MS let's publishers opt out. Play Anywhere is Opt In, but MS could allow certain big publishers like Rockstar or EA opt out GTA6 or NHL.
We shall see how things play out. But her wording is very clear to me. Full BC for the entire roadmap of chips for family of Xbox devices. And Open platform. And seamless play regardless of device you play on.
Third party store cut is only 28% of overall Xbox revenues. They will still get their cut from xCloud Buy and Stream. And Xbox PC store cut is 12%. During Windows 11 announcement, MS stated that they were willing to do the same for Consoles, reduce to 12%. So if they aren't subsidizing hardware, they are no longer losing couple billion in revenues, and more willing to reduce store cut or even free multiplayer. It's a long term play to build a thriving OEM ecosystem built on the back of PC gaming.
Also, Gamepass.
Not just Steam. It should be able to run Epic, EA, Ubisoft, Battle.net, and future Sony PC stores also. Open platform.The console will run Steam, I keep repeating myself with you it seems
Agent X
Member
The PSP Go certainly was ahead of its time, in many ways. I remember that Sony took a lot of criticism for daring to release a system that only played digital downloads. This concept seemed strange at the time, but would have been much more acceptable if it had been released in today's market.
The same delusions from the Windows Phone era, that Microsoft's magical and mysterious software would make everything run on Windows Phone, PC, and Xbox without needing a port.
Account created in 2018 that only became active in 2025.
Don't you Xbox users ever get tired? Don't you have anything to do with your life?
Tobimacoss
Member
Consoles will be more locked down and using the Pluton Security chip. Likely no Desktop UI/mode or File System Access. Third party PC store front access but in a secure container.
Default to Console UI like current consoles with Xbox OS shell.
So they will definitely be cheaper than an equivalent PC on same APU.
PCs will default to Desktop UI/mode and will use the Xbox Full Screen Experience possibly. But retain full PC functionality.
This way the consoles with PC stores don't cannibalize Pre-Built PC sales too much.
However, I still believe "Xbox PCs", Xbox handhelds, will all have Console library BC and FC, and MS is simply tailoring different experiences for different form factors.
ZehDon
Member
My understanding of the push back is less around work - Microsoft has worked hard on platform unification without intervention - and more around license sales. When they signed their games up for the Xbox platform, publishers were agreeing to a specific license for that platform. They also signed up licenses for PlayStation and PC as unique things. Microsoft's one-sided platform unification would effectively be giving away one of those licenses for free with no financial compensation. Some publishers won't care because a lot of older titles just don't sell enough to care - but others might not be too happy about it.
There's no porting needed, the games are already ported to Xbox environment which runs on Windows kernel.
You do translation when going from one supported architecture to another like x64 to ARM64 translation. Or when going from Windows kernel calls to Linux kernel (Proton).
You do emulation of defunct hardware on more powerful hardware. Like Xbox 360 emulation.
But when it's Windows 11 NT kernel running Windows technologies on the same architecture and even the same AMD APUs, there's no porting, translation, or emulation needed.
Windows 11 Home has the ability to run the following:
Windows SDK created and unpackaged Steam/Epic Win32 games.
GDK created and MSIXVC packaged Win32 Xbox games (Xbox PC/PC Gamepass games).
Windows SDK created and appX packaged WinRT UWP games. (Gears of War 4 and Quantum Break etc).
Xbox OS has ability to run the following:
GDKX created and MSIXVC packaged Win32 games optimized for AMD hardware. (Series games)
XDK created and XVC packaged WinRT ERA games. Plus the older gen emulators. (Xbox One games)
My point is, the Windows 11 NT kernel runs all those games, and it can easily do so in a converged OS.
Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire
This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.
Have you watched the video?
I am going to disagree. I will believe Lisa Su's words for now, I think she might be a slightly higher level AMD source than you or MLID.
Publishers aren't ok with Play Anywhere because even though the difference between GDK and GDKX is shrinking, there's still some extra work involved supporting games designed to scale for hundreds of PC configurations and Nvidia hardware. They don't want to do additional work without charging additional costs.
But if everything is running on the exact same APUs, Magnus and Medusa Point, then there's no additional work involved for the publishers. To them, it will be no different than another Xbox console sold, as the device will need to be sold as a Xbox branded device for that sole purpose. MS has likely already had it in the contracts for games to support all Xbox devices regardless of form factors.
Otherwise neither Sony nor MS could get Console library BC on handhelds.
I think the portfolio of Xbox devices they are working on, the ones with the AMD APUs will all share the Console library BC and FC, and Play Anywhere will remain as a program for non AMD PCs.
With today's announcement of Core and Standard tiers also getting PC games, they are likely setting the stage for those tiers being usable on PC form factors if those form factors also have Console BC.
Worst case scenario, MS let's publishers opt out. Play Anywhere is Opt In, but MS could allow certain big publishers like Rockstar or EA opt out GTA6 or NHL.
We shall see how things play out. But her wording is very clear to me. Full BC for the entire roadmap of chips for family of Xbox devices. And Open platform. And seamless play regardless of device you play on.
Third party store cut is only 28% of overall Xbox revenues. They will still get their cut from xCloud Buy and Stream. And Xbox PC store cut is 12%. During Windows 11 announcement, MS stated that they were willing to do the same for Consoles, reduce to 12%. So if they aren't subsidizing hardware, they are no longer losing couple billion in revenues, and more willing to reduce store cut or even free multiplayer. It's a long term play to build a thriving OEM ecosystem built on the back of PC gaming.
Also, Gamepass.
Not just Steam. It should be able to run Epic, EA, Ubisoft, Battle.net, and future Sony PC stores also. Open platform.
All well and good but, licensing is a big deal and big developers are going to make you pay for each and every version. That wall between a PC environment and a proper XBOX console will remain. Unless XBOX console is just a PC.
If there is no PC version of a game, it won't be on an XBOX proper console either. Fast I understand it. Alloy X is just a portable PC.
Exceptions might be something like a handheld that can run native console games as a sideways expansion to the eco system. Unless they intend to break down tradition and current standards.
Unless I am misunderstanding something.
Tobimacoss
Member
Wtf is your problem? Don't like my posts, then ignore them. Idk what my account creation date has to do with anything. I used to lurk and read both Neogaf and Resetera. I post mostly on Reddit, xCloud, Xbox, PCgaming, gamingleaksandrumours subreddits. I only started posting on Neogaf due to Magnus discussions. And the fact that HeisenbergFX, Kepler, ProElite don't post anywhere else. MLID is also banned source in /r/hardware so no discussion there, lol.
Back to topic.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Nah, transfer pak and GBA already did that but let's leave it here, I don't see any problem with Sony following, especially this time around it's very convenient for me, I want hardware to stale a generation for everyone so game devs polish development pipelines and we can go back to normalYes you're right I remember how Nintendo came up with the completely new concept of releasing a handheld that can be docked to a dock station to both charge the unit and to connect it to a TV with TV output with the Nintendo Switch!
Oh wait what I'm saying? Sony was the one that came up with that with the PSP Go 7 1/2 years before the Switch came out never mind.
Sebastian1295
Member
Can nintendo follow sony and microsoft by making an online service that isn't from the year 2010?
If sony were following nintendo then they'd make junk hardware and sell it at a premium like nintendo does. Enough with the lies and astroturfing man.
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viveks86
Member
I get where you are coming from, but this is now a debate worthy topic as Kepler and Heisenberg have solid track records. I'm inclined to consider their word over suits making big promises with PR spin and undeclared caveats in marketing videos. You are free to feel the opposite way, of course, and with good reason. Working on a thread to separate this sub topic out. Feel free to contribute to it. Stand by.There's no porting needed, the games are already ported to Xbox environment which runs on Windows kernel.
You do translation when going from one supported architecture to another like x64 to ARM64 translation. Or when going from Windows kernel calls to Linux kernel (Proton).
You do emulation of defunct hardware on more powerful hardware. Like Xbox 360 emulation.
But when it's Windows 11 NT kernel running Windows technologies on the same architecture and even the same AMD APUs, there's no porting, translation, or emulation needed.
Windows 11 Home has the ability to run the following:
Windows SDK created and unpackaged Steam/Epic Win32 games.
GDK created and MSIXVC packaged Win32 Xbox games (Xbox PC/PC Gamepass games).
Windows SDK created and appX packaged WinRT UWP games. (Gears of War 4 and Quantum Break etc).
Xbox OS has ability to run the following:
GDKX created and MSIXVC packaged Win32 games optimized for AMD hardware. (Series games)
XDK created and XVC packaged WinRT ERA games. Plus the older gen emulators. (Xbox One games)
My point is, the Windows 11 NT kernel runs all those games, and it can easily do so in a converged OS.
Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire
This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.
Have you watched the video?
I am going to disagree. I will believe Lisa Su's words for now, I think she might be a slightly higher level AMD source than you or MLID.
Publishers aren't ok with Play Anywhere because even though the difference between GDK and GDKX is shrinking, there's still some extra work involved supporting games designed to scale for hundreds of PC configurations and Nvidia hardware. They don't want to do additional work without charging additional costs.
But if everything is running on the exact same APUs, Magnus and Medusa Point, then there's no additional work involved for the publishers. To them, it will be no different than another Xbox console sold, as the device will need to be sold as a Xbox branded device for that sole purpose. MS has likely already had it in the contracts for games to support all Xbox devices regardless of form factors.
Otherwise neither Sony nor MS could get Console library BC on handhelds.
I think the portfolio of Xbox devices they are working on, the ones with the AMD APUs will all share the Console library BC and FC, and Play Anywhere will remain as a program for non AMD PCs.
With today's announcement of Core and Standard tiers also getting PC games, they are likely setting the stage for those tiers being usable on PC form factors if those form factors also have Console BC.
Worst case scenario, MS let's publishers opt out. Play Anywhere is Opt In, but MS could allow certain big publishers like Rockstar or EA opt out GTA6 or NHL.
We shall see how things play out. But her wording is very clear to me. Full BC for the entire roadmap of chips for family of Xbox devices. And Open platform. And seamless play regardless of device you play on.
Third party store cut is only 28% of overall Xbox revenues. They will still get their cut from xCloud Buy and Stream. And Xbox PC store cut is 12%. During Windows 11 announcement, MS stated that they were willing to do the same for Consoles, reduce to 12%. So if they aren't subsidizing hardware, they are no longer losing couple billion in revenues, and more willing to reduce store cut or even free multiplayer. It's a long term play to build a thriving OEM ecosystem built on the back of PC gaming.
Also, Gamepass.
Not just Steam. It should be able to run Epic, EA, Ubisoft, Battle.net, and future Sony PC stores also. Open platform.
bitbydeath
Member
Microsoft do often speak in unseen asterisks.
viveks86
Member
Done!
K KeplerL2
HeisenbergFX4
T
Tobimacoss
bitbydeath
Jinzo Prime
Fess
Proelite
Sorry if I missed anyone that seems interested in the topic. Let's take the Xbox console and pc conversation to a separate Xbox thread. Too many distracting topics if we mix this with handheld and MLiD:
Xbox Console vs Xbox PC
K KeplerL2
HeisenbergFX4
T
Tobimacoss
bitbydeath
Jinzo Prime
Fess
Proelite
Sorry if I missed anyone that seems interested in the topic. Let's take the Xbox console and pc conversation to a separate Xbox thread. Too many distracting topics if we mix this with handheld and MLiD:
Xbox Console vs Xbox PC
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Felessan
Member
WTF is 3-10 Gb AI requirement. It sounds like invented bullshit. Why console would need to run full scale general-purpose, shit-quality LLM models and not just tailored models like DLSS4, which takes ~300Mb at 4K
Like Sony wants people to migrate from PS4 but they do it slowly. Because even if you have zero competition, price is a factor in itself and consoles are not essential goods for people to not be able skip buying them - mass market always can switch to mobile or cheap laptop gaming if consoles are too expensive.
Sony earns money on ecosystem - so the more people in ecosystem, more profits they have. And pricing out customers on hardware will reduce number of people in ecosystem.
Market elasticity.
Like Sony wants people to migrate from PS4 but they do it slowly. Because even if you have zero competition, price is a factor in itself and consoles are not essential goods for people to not be able skip buying them - mass market always can switch to mobile or cheap laptop gaming if consoles are too expensive.
Sony earns money on ecosystem - so the more people in ecosystem, more profits they have. And pricing out customers on hardware will reduce number of people in ecosystem.
Great device, small, slick, light and very convinient. One of the best handheld.
nial
Gold Member
Not even in the same ballpark as PSP Go and Nintendo Switch (Super Game Boy was a much better example than Transfer Pak, btw).
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
This is basically what I expect this "PS6 S" to be.
A dock able digital only handheld because I don't expect Sony to adopt an old medium or come up with a new storage solution just to have physical games on this handheld so it will be their 2nd attempt at a PSP Go.
If Sony REALLY wants to do physical games for this handheld without running into Nintendo's issues with the microSD Express cartridges than my only solution would be to sell these games on the old Switch 1 like cartridges (so basically non-Exoress microSD cartridges) BUT make the games mandatory to install in order to play the games the same way the PS3/PS5 works that way Sony gets to have a physical cheap to manufactur presence on store shelfs without needing to worry about the read/wrote speeds of the cartridge.
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Kataploom
Gold Member
Well, this is what the thread is about, isn't it?Can nintendo follow sony and microsoft by making an online service that isn't from the year 2010?
If sony were following nintendo then they'd make junk hardware and sell it at a premium like nintendo does. Enough with the lies and astroturfing man.
jm89
Member
Ps6s? Yeah I'm calling bullshit on this one.
Either MLID is off with his info(shocking I know) or as someone mentioned in the other thread his sprinkling in false info to protect his sources.
I just can't imagine sony being this stupid. But with the current leadership who knows.
Either MLID is off with his info(shocking I know) or as someone mentioned in the other thread his sprinkling in false info to protect his sources.
I just can't imagine sony being this stupid. But with the current leadership who knows.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Pictures, specs, and the estimated cost of the powerful APU inside PlayStation 6 "S"!
Chapters:
0:00 Pictures of AMD Canis based on Dimensions & Specs!
1:02 PS6 Handheld Specs Overview
2:51 BEWARE of FAKE Rumors
4:37 Sony MASSIVELY upgraded the Specs!
5:29 PS6 Canis & PS6 Orion -Cost Estimate
12:30 This wasn't Easy! Subscribe & Join Patreon!!!
12:30 Game Dev Testimonials on Required RAM
17:57 PS6S Performance & Full Specs Leak
25:30 Sony wants PS4 Gamers to UPGRADE
PS6 "Consoles" estimated costs:-
Anonymous Game Dev Testimonials on Next-Gen RAM Requirements:-
As I was thinking, 24 GB of RAM for PS6 in the era of UE 5.x and AI would be really bad. 32+ GB for the win
.
nial
Gold Member
Pretty sure that's his own speculation, but it would be the exact same PS6P chip running on a TV console (similar to the Vita TV), so I'm not sure what's the big deal about it.
Felessan
Member
What's the issue? It's forever docked handheld - so it'll have a support of handheld at no extra cost. And most thing points out that handheld is coming.
What will be the policy in regards of console/handheld parity support is yet to see
kat_on_the_roof
Member
Can someone summarize the specs for someone with little tech experience to understand how capable the PS6 handheld could be?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Now this is a guy that gets under my skin. He loves to milk warring for engagement. Its rank.
Hopefully this device is good but it looks like we got a series s situation all over again.
Hopefully this device is good but it looks like we got a series s situation all over again.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Yes you're right I remember how Nintendo came up with the completely new concept of releasing a handheld that can be docked to a dock station to both charge the unit and to connect it to a TV with TV output with the Nintendo Switch!
Oh wait what I'm saying? Sony was the one that came up with that with the PSP Go 7 1/2 years before the Switch came out never mind.
Oh nice! Did it turn into a home console once you docked it?
PlayStaytion
Member
Xbox Ally is everywhere and nowhere. It has many names.
Zathalus
Member
It shouldn't be a problem, 50% larger memory bus, 16MB MALL cache for the GPU, and the much better memory system of RDNA5 should mostly resolve it. Compared to the Switch 2 or Steam Deck it will have over double the memory bandwidth, the extra cache, and the better memory compression.
PlayStaytion
Member
The Switch 2 will shine when studios start to utilize the hardware a %100. It's definitely not doa out of the box yet for sure.
nial
Gold Member
It did, basically.
PlayStaytion
Member
Am I the only who thinks we're just getting PS6 and Xbox next vanillas at launch?
tusharngf
Member
I would love to get a handheld that can play first party games
Zathalus
Member
An inexpensive digital-only PS2/1 handheld with DualSense Will struggle to outsell the Steam Deck. Never mind the Switch.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Basically yeah they had added Bluetooth to the PSP Go that the previous 3 PSP models didn't have sp you were able to connect a PS3 controller to control the system and games.
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apple_of_enlightenment
Member
Wouldn't be surprised if they try to invigorate PS5 lifespan with the Nintendo design. Early signs (outside Japan) is PS5 is getting hammered.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
I don't understand are you expecting some sort of secret sauce to be found on the Switch 2 that will make games run better?
The Switch 2 is using a modified 5 year old APU that got DLSS support added to it there's nothing else going on under the hood that's special so "X Company confirms X game runs at 30FPS on the Nintendo Switch 2" shouldn't be a surprise it should be expectation.
Madserb2023
Member
It will probably be less powerful than people think. One thing that doesn't seem to improve much is battery life and thermals which the latter still has a limiting factor when docked. It will have a relatively low clock speed when used as a handheld otherwise it will last 30 minutes with those specs.
PSP Go released in a time where most PSP games didn't have digital version.
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Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
We are at the point where people are sticking Desktop APUs on a handheld for a commercial product battery life be damned
So I will say that the idea that we should exclusively be expecting Handhelds to stick to only mobile APUs is out the window
Baemono
Member
Not sure about that, Nintendo heavily downclocked the thing + 8nm, so not really the powerhouse it could be. Sony could decide to go full power to reach PS5-- (or PS4 Pro++) levels and be a bit more powerful than the Switch 2
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
So, will this play PS6 games?
If its good enough and the right price I might grab one instead of a PS6.
If its good enough and the right price I might grab one instead of a PS6.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Modern 3nm TSMC vs older Samsung 8-10nm process. Latest RDNA4 architecture and Zen 6 derived cores vs older GPU design and 1 GHz ARM cores (good ARM cores but not in the same league).
Madjako
Member
That's the question. MILD keeps comparing it to PS5. But it's supposed to be a portable PS6. How can a hardware That's roughly PS5 power run PS6 games ??