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CJY
Banned
I know how you feel man... but, does that dude not even realise there's a 16-core Ryzen too?i hate the console wars...
thelastword
Banned
Ascension was one hell of a beautiful game, definitely a tour de force in graphics....That last scene.... was pure
..
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Ascension was one hell of a beautiful game, definitely a tour de force in graphics....That last scene.... was pure
Guys here's your daily reminder that Santa Monica are some of the most amazing devs on planet Earth. This was GOW Ascension on the PS3.
FranXico
Member
That needs to be remastered for the PS4 (preferably, with the parry fixed).Guys here's your daily reminder that Santa Monica are some of the most amazing devs on planet Earth. This was GOW Ascension on the PS3.
demigod
Member
Looks like Statham wasn't "man enough" to leave it up.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Come on now, do you think the 360 couldn't run TLOU, it's slow paced and Killzone 2 is basically a on rail shooter the lag is that bad, And as Iots on here say that MS stoped putting effort into exclusives the last 2/3 years of the 360 and could have squeezed more out the 360 if they carried on supporting exclusives, but as it stands I'd say even ish, maybe even Ps3 nudgeing it and that's only because of continued surport and not hardware.Thats not what digital foundry and lens of truth had to say or any expert last gen Killzone 2, TLOU, Uncharted 2/3, God of War had no equals. Gears had a run until Uncharted 2 dropped it blew the door open and comparisons with Gears wasn't even fair. Like come on everyone remembers UC2 reveal no one thought what thy were seeing was possible. Uncharted won tons of awards many of which had to do with graphics and tech
Pound for pound Sony exclusives looked better than their competition in their respective genres for the most part
Uncharted beat all competitors. Gears couldn't compete
TLOU blew ppls minds.
Killzone 2 next level shit even looked better than Halo bullshots micro always tried to pass as gameplay. They then compared Killzone to Crysis on PC which is wild.
God of War idk anything you could compare to it
MLB the Show no competitor to compare but always one of the best looking games.
How Sony Is Leading The Charge With The Best Looking Console Exclusives - Part 1
Our in-depth analysis on how Sony is able to develop an amazing line-up of great…gamingbolt.com
If u don't like gamingbolt many other articles on this. Digital Foundry had Uncharted on a pedastal when you look up theur comparisons to other games
ResilientBanana
Member
llien
Member
Hmm. What?
That is Vegas 64 levels of gaming performance.
CJY
Banned
Yes, but not exactly designed for the consumer segment in fairness.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
It was a fun game. Very underrated. It was rumored to get ported to PS4 like GoW3, but it never came to pass.
Shame. I feel it deserves a second look.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The problem is.....
GOW 1 was an "A" rated game.
GOW 2 was an "A+" rated game.
GOW 3 was an "A-" rated game.
but
GOW Ascension was more like a "B-" rated game.
It's clearly worse than every other GOW game, that it made them recreate the whole game from the floor up.
LordOfChaos
Member
nowhat
Gold Member
4x more poweful = 8 + 4?
Yeah, 8+4 is obviously 84x more powerful, that's just basic math.
Yes, but they could also for example disable CUs in the devkit to hide the true power of the system. The first games will only be souped up PS4/XBONE games. So it would not really matter if the final system is 30% stronger than the devkit since most of the games use dynamic scaling anyways. I would not give that much on leaked information from devkits or target specs atm. Both can be used to put false information into the public.. Also, if they want to hide the die size in devkits they can seal those boxes.
Microsoft showed a lot more than most people think at E3. If the render is real, they must feel pretty confident about it. Now Sony knows perfectly well what to expect from Scarlet in regards to CU count etc. Only question for Sony remaining is the amount of memory and the clock speed. Since both are developing against a similar power envelope, they must have a pretty clear picture what to expect from Microsoft now.
My guess is that both consoles will be very similar in performance (+-10% max). Digital Foundry will be boring the entire next generation..
Imtjnotu
Member
Hdm2e is even better
Some examples for HBM memory bandwidth:
4 GB HBM1 - 4096 bit - 512 GB/s - 1000 MHz => (1 GT/s ÷ 8 x 4096 = 512 GB/s)
8 GB HBM2 - 2048 bit - 409.6 GB/s - 1600 MHz
8 GB HBM2 - 2048 bit - 483.8 GB/s - 1890 MHz
12 GB HBM2 - 3072 bit - 651.3 GB/s - 1696 MHz
16 GB HBM2 - 4096 bit - 1024 GB/s - 2000 MHz
[Samsung : HBM2 data bandwidth calculation]
-An 8GB HBM2 package’s data bandwidth : 2.4Gbps per pin x 1024bit bus = 307.2GB/s
Using four HBM2 packages in a system: 307.2GB/s x 4 = 1228.8GBps = approximately 1.2TB/s
Samsung Starts Producing 8-Gigabyte High Bandwidth Memory-2 with Highest Data Transmission Speed
The new HBM2, Aquabolt™, features today’s highest DRAM performance levels, for use in next-generation supercomputers, AI solutions and graphics systemsnews.samsung.com
pawel86ck
Banned
I can listen to digital foundry and other experts, but I still have my own eyes. Gears Of War 3 was EASILY on pair with PS3 exclusivesThats not what digital foundry and lens of truth had to say or any expert last gen Killzone 2, TLOU, Uncharted 2/3, God of War had no equals. Gears had a run until Uncharted 2 dropped it blew the door open and comparisons with Gears wasn't even fair. Like come on everyone remembers UC2 reveal no one thought what thy were seeing was possible. Uncharted won tons of awards many of which had to do with graphics and tech
Pound for pound Sony exclusives looked better than their competition in their respective genres for the most part
Uncharted beat all competitors. Gears couldn't compete
TLOU blew ppls minds.
Killzone 2 next level shit even looked better than Halo bullshots micro always tried to pass as gameplay. They then compared Killzone to Crysis on PC which is wild.
God of War idk anything you could compare to it
MLB the Show no competitor to compare but always one of the best looking games.
How Sony Is Leading The Charge With The Best Looking Console Exclusives - Part 1
Our in-depth analysis on how Sony is able to develop an amazing line-up of great…
If u don't like gamingbolt many other articles on this. Digital Foundry had Uncharted on a pedastal when you look up theur comparisons to other games
That submarine level still looks amazing even today (although people have to keep in mind, it's Xbox X gameplay in 4K, while x360 version run at 720p)
Bioshock - xbox 720p, ps3 680p
Dead Rising 2 - xbox 720p, ps3 576p
Ghoshtbusters - xbox 720p, ps3 576p
GTA 4 - xbox 720p, ps3 640p
Red Read Redemption - xbox 720p, ps3 640p
The Darkness - xbox 720p, ps3 576p
Just to name a few. PS3 despite being more powerful had problems running multiplatform games, only TES: oblivion or Ridge Racer run better on PS3 but these were xbox 360 launch titles if I remember correctly, so it's obvious why PS3 ports were improved one year later. It was very strange situation, PS3 was more powerful console thanks to CELL, yet it had problems running so many games because of slower GPU. It looks like it's better to launch console with much better GPU and a little bit slower CPU compared to much better CPU and slower GPU.
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ResilientBanana
Member
But GDDR6 is faster than GDDR5, also even at 28Gbps per chip I have more bandwidth with 4 chips. 112Gbps (GDDR5) vs 100Gbps (HBM2).
Some examples for HBM memory bandwidth:
4 GB HBM1 - 4096 bit - 512 GB/s - 1000 MHz => (1 GT/s ÷ 8 x 4096 = 512 GB/s)
8 GB HBM2 - 2048 bit - 409.6 GB/s - 1600 MHz
8 GB HBM2 - 2048 bit - 483.8 GB/s - 1890 MHz
12 GB HBM2 - 3072 bit - 651.3 GB/s - 1696 MHz
16 GB HBM2 - 4096 bit - 1024 GB/s - 2000 MHz
[Samsung : HBM2 data bandwidth calculation]
-An 8GB HBM2 package’s data bandwidth : 2.4Gbps per pin x 1024bit bus = 307.2GB/s
Using four HBM2 packages in a system: 307.2GB/s x 4 = 1228.8GBps = approximately 1.2TB/s
Samsung Starts Producing 8-Gigabyte High Bandwidth Memory-2 with Highest Data Transmission Speed
The new HBM2, Aquabolt™, features today’s highest DRAM performance levels, for use in next-generation supercomputers, AI solutions and graphics systems
Ovech-King
Member
Here's my logical assumption of the day for yall. In 2012 the best graphics cards on the market had 2GB of GDDR5. The PS4 at the end of 2013 ended up with 8GB , a multiple of 4.
Based on this premise, the strongest cards are averaging 8GB Gddr6 it's fair to assume that the PS5 will have between 24 to 32 GB of RAM.
Now will that be a 399? Good question ... I think Sony can do it because with all the revenue they added since 2013 with the mandatory online subscription payment , they added a major revenue stream they didn't even have back in 2013.
Based on this premise, the strongest cards are averaging 8GB Gddr6 it's fair to assume that the PS5 will have between 24 to 32 GB of RAM.
Now will that be a 399? Good question ... I think Sony can do it because with all the revenue they added since 2013 with the mandatory online subscription payment , they added a major revenue stream they didn't even have back in 2013.
Imtjnotu
Member
Doesn't mean they want to lose a shit ton of money. Especially after what ps3 did to them
Ovech-King
Member
Fair enough but that and the 4k drive going down fast , I expect 499 buy 399 is still an option I believe
LordOfChaos
Member
Several top end cards were 3GB in 2012, but also don't forget it was launched a month away from 2013, as to barely scrape a 2012 console qualifier. By 2013 more high end cards were moving to 3-4GB instead of 2.
GPU 2012 Benchmarks - Compare Products on AnandTech
GPU 2012 benchmarks: Compare two products side-by-side or see a cascading list of product ratings along with our annotations.
Not pooping on the 24GB thesis, but I don't particularly look at multiples of current GPUs as a way to get there, all sorts of different reasons go into it
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vpance
Member
It's about the sum of everything. Power usage, space savings and long term cost for similar or better bandwidth.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
So "Lockhart" is dead until it's not.
A discless MS box makes too much sense to push people towards gamepass and other subs. It was the only thing Lockhart really had going for it imho.
- Promote 2 SKUs
- Publically kill one
- Shock final reveal - 2 SKUs - same power - one is discless at a lower price to undercut the PS5 399 mic drop
- Price advantage but no negative developer impact unlike the "original" Lockhart plan
A discless MS box makes too much sense to push people towards gamepass and other subs. It was the only thing Lockhart really had going for it imho.
LordOfChaos
Member
Otoh a diskless PS5 is a much easier, much faster turnaround, than a cut down spec one. They could remove the drive and offer similar in no time.
I'd probably buy it too, only disks I had this gen were given to me.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
bandwitdth is not an issue. latency is. cpu tasks are very latency sensitive. this is why supposedly sony split the pool.
xool
Member
Bluray disc drives are ~$25 BOM - so there's no significant incentive to cut one.
Of course turkeys always vote for christmas - so keep paying $59 for a game download 6 months after release when the disc versions have reached $30-40
..at those numbers they could start thinking about giving away a discless version .. the downside to that plan is that people would recognize the [initial] deal is too good to be true .. and maybe even realize that game downloads = distributor monopoly
Of course turkeys always vote for christmas - so keep paying $59 for a game download 6 months after release when the disc versions have reached $30-40
..at those numbers they could start thinking about giving away a discless version .. the downside to that plan is that people would recognize the [initial] deal is too good to be true .. and maybe even realize that game downloads = distributor monopoly
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SpinningBirdKick
Banned
But we all know it's not just the BOM savings that make this attractive.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
A discless console is only going to save MS about $20, so.........how much cheaper do you think the console will be?
Aceofspades
Banned
$25 is huge huge saving in the manufacturering process. Any cent can make a huge difference when you manufacture a million units a month.
DJ12
Member
Not sure I follow you there.
Information suggests PS5 devkits are currently more powerful (obviously running code on both to make this assumtion) and in addition to this the target spec discussed with devs are also higher than "anaconda", even when there were two consoles being muted from Microsoft.
Anaconda dev kits < PS5 dev kits
Anaconda target specs < PS4 target specs
*based on current leaks and comments that are attributed to devs.
So how does lockhart being cancelled make any difference to this?
MS would not make Anaconda weaker because they cancelled a cheaper, less powerful box, if anything they would just swollow the loss at launch and sell it at a comparible price to the PS5.
Fact is MS did not know what to aim for, they designed what they wanted, got the best the could for their BOM target and hoped it would be good enough, this was the same for Sony too.
It's too late in the game now to change anything other than clock speeds, but I guess they will rush through an 'X' version as soon as it's viable to do so with further shrinks to try and stop Sony building on the PS4 momentum.
GermanZepp
Member
Incentive for the consumers i think he meant
FrostyJ93
Member
I think its too late to for that. PS5 being BC alone already makes taking some of their userbase pretty difficult as is. Scarlett is going to be an enthusiast box for core xbox fans.
Negotiator
Member
Replace Bit Warz with Teraflop Warz and here we are... human nature never changes!
Negotiator
Member
That doesn't make any sense to me.
OG PS4, Pro and XB1X have a unified GDDR5 pool. How many developers have complained about CPU DRAM latency? Zero, nada.
Rest assured, next-gen CPUs will even have L3 cache, so latency will be even less of an issue (if it ever was).
The question is, how much would that reduce MSRP/RRP? That's what the consumer cares about.
Unless it's $100 cheaper, I don't think it's worth it from a consumer standpoint.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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Negotiator
Member
It's like asking for a woman to be super hot, intelligent, rich, all at the same time.
Imtjnotu
Member
FranXico
Member
In other words, one feature taken out, and Microsoft takes a big hit per console sold.$20 disk drive drops the price by a hundred
Fake
Member
Native 4K? Hum...
ethomaz
Banned
If he take a bit more time to read maybe he will know they talk is that PS5 DevKit is stronger than Xbox Scarlett Dev Kit... not the final hardware lol
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bitbydeath
Member
Why?
If they’re both planning to use the latest AMD hardware the only option for MS would be to jump ship to NVIDIA or start putting in dual GPU’s.
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