I'm not eager to see a game that even in this generation doesn't look high end. I think that, if they don't reserve it for their digital event in June, tomorrow what is going to drop jaws is Battlefield. They always scale very well with cross-generational tech. Anything else, including Cyberpunk, I expect it to look like a 4K version of a PS4 game.
Something truly novel, fun, ambitious, non-political and agenda-free from a previously unknown studio and publisher.
This should be a size of 1 right?
Linus, is that you?FOOLS! This is the only book you'll ever need:
That's a fair point, but I'm leaning towards hopes for good gameplay rather than impressive graphics as of a now. As you said, we are in cross-gen territory, and in that regard, I'm expecting that much.
Elden Ring! I'm excited to see how the soulsborne formula will evolve. Hopefully they will show something.
#include <unordered_map>
#include <iostream>
int foo() {
std::unordered_map<int, int> m;
m[665] = 123;
int temp = m.size();
m[666] = temp; // <---
return m[666];
}
int main() {
std::cout << foo();
}I'm quite curious about Elden Ring too
That operator[] is an accessor with a side effect. Pure evil. Almost as bad as the infamous auto_ptr.
Goes without saying, not all MSVC bugs are bad. Try specializing a nested class template in MSVC (2015 I think), then try compiling the same code in an actually compliant compiler such as Clang.
I think you are confusing memory size and memory bandwidth
You are right. there are a lot of things coming together to load the games, which is precisely why you are seeing 11 seconds load times for a last gen game with maybe 5gb of ram max. Cerny himself said that simply increasing the ssd speed wont result in faster load times. which is why he made sure to add all that stuff in the i/o to remove every bottleneck there is and ensure that this 100x faster speed in ssd translates into 100x faster loading and streaming.
The screen before this one is the most important because he talked about how a 10x faster ssd only improved the load times by 2x. Which is why they decided to put most of their efforts into the I/O to eliminate those bottlenecks to get 1:1 perf/speed. judging by the demo MS released, i dont think they were able to get that ratio or come anywhere close to that. they had a year to come up with a loading demo to go up against the spiderman loading demo and thats the demo they put out there on youtube. they have been super media savvy this entire marketing run and this doesnt seem like a mistake they would make.
you can watch Cerny talk about the above screenshot here. i've timestamped this clip.
I've said that everything but the SSD could be a bottleneck, not that the SSD is a bottleneck. If I had to guess the PS5's bottleneck, that will be by far the 448GB/s memory bandwidth.
Animations will benefit greatly from the new CPU too, think things like Euphoria that RDR2 uses that deforms and changes animation according to outside forces or ML based animations or more advanced IK. The new CPU will open a whole new world of animations and physics.1.- I am still fascinated about they can load much more data in just one frame in a 60 FPS game than entire title of Spiderman game in one second which was around 25 MB If I remember .
I need the new Ace Combat ....
2.- Also the new SSD for both consoles should help to improve complex animation or use it in much more NPC in the same time as the position for the vertex of these use bandwidth.
In theory, the SSD can allow you infinite detail because as you move closer to something, it can stream in real-time a more and more detailed model of that thing while on PS4 you would have to keep all the levels of detail of that thing in memory. Mesh Shaders (that's how it's called in DX12, Turing, and RDNA2 but Sony calls it "Geometry engine" on PS5) will also allow adding an insane amount of polygons as you get closer to an object. Things like hair need raw processing power, so the SSD doesn't really help there. But you can expect amazing hair next generation, just like the new hair strands tech DICE is using in their next-generation iteration of Frostbite:
I think you are confusing memory size and memory bandwidth
A fast SSD saves on RAM space up until your streaming gets so fast it can feed the GPU for the next frame. Right now there are huge pools of data inside the RAM just in case, because if you need a piece of data, you won't have it available even if you only need it in 20 frames, the HDD isn't fast enough. So basically everything around you is in memory (at least most of it, engines that try to stream some of this stuff with fewer data in memory are the ones that you see blurry texture that pop back in after a few seconds). With an SSD, developers can just keep whatever you see, no need to buffer the whole world around you and as you turn the camera or get closer to an object, the new data can stream into memory. This can work very well if you stream data fast enough, even if all you can do is stream 10 frames forwards. Once you get to 1 frame forward, which means you basically keep nothing "just in case" but feed the memory with the next frame data, you've saved all the data you can and the SSD doesn't save data in memory anymore.
So if a game streams data 8 frames forwards on XSX, it can probably stream ~4 frames forward on PS5 and it will save memory because you are holding less data in memory at a given time (you are holding 4 frames worth of data instead of 8). But when you get to the lowest unit, a single frame, you can't save data using fast streaming. So it's really game by game basis.
Memory bandwidth is something completely different. The SSD uses it, it doesn't help it. So the 488GB/s the PS5 has is being used at the same time by the GPU, CPU, SSD, and Tempest Engine. So the SSD doesn't help memory bandwidth, actually, the faster it is, the more memory bandwidth it uses.
Two things:
1) What I've said regarding "loading isn't just data", it has nothing to do with the slide you've brought. This slide describes how you can get rid of bottlenecks in order to feed the memory with data quickly, but you still have a lot of CPU work during loading that has nothing to do with streaming data. That's why just because your data flows at x100 faster, don't expect x100 faster loading. If you are expecting PS4 games that take 45 seconds to load, to load on PS5 in 0.45 seconds, forget about it.
2) XSX actually has all of these steps too, except for the coherency engine (or at least we don't know about a coherency engine just yet).
If I would have to guess, then third party games will load less than x2 faster on PS5 because its' IO is x2 faster but loading also needs a lot of CPU work and the CPU is the same.
I've said that everything but the SSD could be a bottleneck, not that the SSD is a bottleneck. If I had to guess the PS5's bottleneck, that will be by far the 448GB/s memory bandwidth.
Animations will benefit greatly from the new CPU too, think things like Euphoria that RDR2 uses that deforms and changes animation according to outside forces or ML based animations or more advanced IK. The new CPU will open a whole new world of animations and physics.
In theory, the SSD can allow you infinite detail because as you move closer to something, it can stream in real-time a more and more detailed model of that thing while on PS4 you would have to keep all the levels of detail of that thing in memory. Mesh Shaders (that's how it's called in DX12, Turing, and RDNA2 but Sony calls it "Geometry engine" on PS5) will also allow adding an insane amount of polygons as you get closer to an object. Things like hair need raw processing power, so the SSD doesn't really help there. But you can expect amazing hair next generation, just like the new hair strands tech DICE is using in their next-generation iteration of Frostbite:
On the basic PS4 they can do 15K short hair strands in just 2.3ms (and 10K long hair strands in 9.2ms) in 900p so I'm sure we are going to see that on a 10TF-12TF systems. But just to be fair, the image above is 70K+ strands each
Imagine a character creator that literally lets you cut your hair the way you want with a pair of virtual "scissors".
I'm currently sporting the Rasputin beard/Terry Nutkins hair combo.
I did this.
if ps4 games would be patched to fully utilize ps5 ssd we would get under 1 second loading times that's near x100 faster compared to ps4 loading times.
from what i know XSX has just 2 blocks inside APU which is related to IO which are DMA controller and decompression block(i might be wrong or we don't know everything eat) compared to total of 6 units inside PS5 and we don't know about coherency engine in XSX because it isn't there. weird logic you have to expect something which isn't there.
i don't think that CPU does game logic when loading more likely some draw calls to GPU or sometihing minor which CPU could do x times faster compared to SSD getting data under 1 second. so CPU isn't bottlenecking SSD when loading.
ps5 have coherency engines which saves bandwidth so for 36CU's it has sufficiently enough of it.
Given how small the raw power differences are between the PS5 ans XSX if one has a GPU/CPU bottleneck the other will have it too.... Weh ave yet to see how it turns out in 4K games, I suspect that more PS5 games will drop resolution to around 1800p from time to time, so in effect I'm not worried.
From the man himself:
As I understand it, it maps certain portions of the SSD drive as memory and swap the data in as needed. This is there to allow close to 1:1 use of the SSD's data transfer speeds.Which is something you apparently don't adhere to.
gicen how MS has made it a point to highlight any and all features of their hardware we can assume that we would have heard about their version of a coherency engine, at least as a dx12 ultimate feature.
It would be a killer move, but let's remember that tomorrow there will be third party only, Sony would probably piss off those publishers.
Tomorrow games will all be playable on ps5. Beside sony would upset 3rd parties so its highly unlikely they would do that . They will post all those trailers on their site immediately and thats all they will do
You can see that the game loads with the same pop-ups, just faster. Not really impressive TBH but that could be the fault of the engine.
To be fair every e3 sony fans watch ms show as it has so many 3rd party announcement. No different here .
I'm curious, why are you saying this? What features is it supposed to have to support this claim? We've seen some gameplay, it's a pretty standard RPG/FPS mix. I'd say that Watch Dogs: Legion has more ambitious ideas (I'm not saying they're going to accomplish what they promise, just the premise).
Just like any browser out there which can recognize the client and then can serve you this or that file package, depending on your OS/CPU/whatever config. There's noting new about it, just a fancy name.
