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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Aceofspades

Banned
Based on the top 5 top rated game of the decade Nintendo and Rockstar are the one that lead the industry 🤔 and graphics isn't everything at the end. Superior physics system > Ultra realistic graphics.



I have already talked about "Nintendo pass" and I don't want to derail this thread . SAME multiplat game gets higher score on Switch by simply existing on the system while looking and performing worse than PS or Xbox version.

Let's get back to topic , I don't want to derail this thread further.
 
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Bodatan

Banned
I have already talked about "Nintendo pass" and I don't want to derail this thread . SAME multiplat game gets higher score on Switch by simply existing on the system while looking and performing worse than PS or Xbox version.

Let's get back to topic , I don't want to derail this thread further.
Take a look at the video to see how archaic sony open world game vs Rockstar and Nintendo EPD.
 

Mass Shift

Member
You mean OsirisBlack? He said Both machines are capable but PS5 > Scar and had even better RT.

That's why you see Xbox fans in frenzy mode for the past 5 pages.


It really needs to be called "Insider Wars" now because that's literally what we have going on.

It'll be interesting to see who comes out on top. But I'll be surprised if any one person got it all correctly.
 

Fitzchiv

Member
I'm not so sure if 4TF Navi would match 6TF Polaris and therefore run xbox x games. This must be a joke or something😀.

And BTW. consoles are cheap anyway, so 100$ less is not a big difference. If someone cant afford spending 100$ more for the next 8 years investment, then how these people want to pay for games?

By subscription, you smug dumbass.

FFS.
 

pawel86ck

Banned
By subscription, you smug dumbass.

FFS.
I have disrespected you or something? Why you so angry?

I will explain something to you. 10$/euro for the next 8 years is around 1000$ for standard gamepass, and 1440$ for gamepass ultimate. That's still not chip for someone who cant afford 100$ for 8 year investment. MS is clever, because most people dont buy many games like enthusiasts, usually 5-10 games, so that's 250-500$ if you buy new games, and 125-250$ if you buy used games (and not to mention if you buy used games MS will earn nothing). I suspect thanks to gamepass MS will earn even more money than without it and people even with gamepass will still want to buy games normally from time to time because not all great games will be available in gamepass.
 
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henau212

Neo Member
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1517...65-and-765-5g-for-all-in-2020-all-the-details

Qualcomm only's comment is that their process node choices were based on various considerations, including volume. Reading between the lines, it’s possible that Qualcomm wasn’t as confident in Samsung’s ability to manufacture the large quantities needed for the new chip. I’ve also heard murmurs from other sources that Samsung’s process simply doesn’t have as good performance and leakage characteristics as TSMC, and in flagship parts, those aspects have to be taken higher consideration than in say a premium- or mid-range SoC. In any case, it’s a big blow to Samsung’s foundry business as having the design win this year was quite critical, as I do not expect them to win the 2021 flagship contract due to TSMC’s 5nm leadership.
As for the choice between TSMC’s N7P and N7+ (+ is the EUV node), it seems HiSilicon is currently the only client for the node for the time being, with the Kirin 990 5G being the only chipset manufactured on the node until later in 2020. It’s most likely that TSMC here simply doesn’t yet have the EUV volume capacity and yields to fulfil Qualcomm’s demand at this point in time, essentially being in a similar situation as Samsung, with the only difference being that TSMC has a viable high-volume DUV-based process ready as an alternative.

So much for EUV as given... hope is not lost, but the chances are going down. also does not sound too thrilling about Samsung’s EUV process.
 

Fitzchiv

Member
I have disrespected you or something? Why you so angry?

I will explain something to you. 10$/euro for the next 8 years is around 1000$ for standard gamepass, and 1440$ for gamepass ultimate. That's still not chip for someone who cant afford 100$ for 8 year investment. MS is clever, because most people dont buy many games like enthusiasts, usually 5-10 games, so that's 250-500$ if you buy new games, and 125-250$ if you buy used games (and not to mention if you buy used games MS will earn nothing). I suspect thanks to gamepass MS will earn even more money than without it and people even with gamepass will still want to buy games normally from time to time because not all great games will be available in gamepass.

I stand by my original post. If you can't tell the difference between having $100 extra in the bank today, and accomodating $10 a month, then this is pointless.

It's about affordability, not cash. It's an underpin of most other sectors - it's effectively what a credit card is. It's affordability.

And the fact you assume a basic lack of arithmetic could be part of the issue is just fucking perfect.
 
Based on the top 5 top rated game of the decade Nintendo and Rockstar are the one that lead the industry 🤔 and graphics isn't everything at the end. Superior physics system > Ultra realistic graphics.



Now demake those games for Atari 2600 (good luck with that) and come back to tell us power and graphic and animation and music and controllers are not important in order to enjoy the best and most complete experience. 🤔
Without being so "xxxxxtreeeem" check Shadow of the Colossus on PS2, PS3 and PS4 PRO. The more power the better experience.
 
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pawel86ck

Banned
I stand by my original post. If you can't tell the difference between having $100 extra in the bank today, and accomodating $10 a month, then this is pointless.

It's about affordability, not cash. It's an underpin of most other sectors - it's effectively what a credit card is. It's affordability.

And the fact you assume a basic lack of arithmetic could be part of the issue is just fucking perfect.
You sound like a selfrightous person, but cant you see this affordability is an illusion, because you still have to pay full price in the end (and like I have said probably even more). The same way people can get a bank loan and buy 500$ xbox anaconda console, just to pay very little each month for the next 5-8 years. I would rather do it this way than play on something like lockhart, because games on it will not only look worse but run worse too.
 
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Xdrive05

Member
Wouldn't a two-tiered Scarlett on launch day give Microsoft "permission" to make Anaconda as premium and expensive as they want? I mean they could make a $699 beast as long as they also have a $399 entry level option at the same time. Or they could go the other way and make Lockhart a super-value offering at like $299 while Anaconda can still be sold at PS5 or lower pricing for price competitiveness.

As long as Lockhart is truly capable of the full next gen experience, but just in lower resolution, then it could be a brilliant strategy to get the install base built faster than Sony can at a premium price only.
 
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Nice take...
You hurting.
Maybe Lockhart will be a 1080p/1440p 120fps console if people prefer framerates over resolution....
I don't know about 1440p 120fps, BOY are you CRAZY ?!?
Yeah it's possible but at low or medium not High (details) 1440p.
Outside of VR, no dev is going to target more than 60fps for console games.
What percentage of the 150m console owners have TVs that support that? 0.1%?
Most gamers play with a Monitor not a TV, Input Lag son.
LOL maybe with today graphics
Nope, next gen graphics 1080p.
He literally said a console in his tweet.

"this week I brought my Project Scarlett console home and it's become my primary console, playing my games, connecting to the community and yes, using my Elite Series 2 controller"

Surely he has a home console with unfinished design, but with finalized specs.
Now imagine him say "i brought a Dev kit home" how would that sounds like, i bet you are one of those who believes in santa klaus.
And btw he didnt bring sh!t home, why would he waste he's family time when he mess with Dev Kits at work.
Any common sense having person on this forum should know or guess tht the hw RT will be some mid tier type implementation and not as good as powerful pc's and should be good with tht. Shit I know I am..
Everybody knows that, i'm sure we will see a lot of 1080p RT games, even on the back cover of CD's "support Ray Tracing"
If you or someone don't care about next gen or graphics why waste time posting in the thread? Create a new thread and explain that.
You hurting.
It’s said to have significantly less memory than Anaconda. At best that sounds like 12GB and at worst 8GB.
It's plenty for 1080p/mid 1440p.
I don't even know why you guys are bring Nintendo to the thread.
Discussing business model, cause of your denial posts about an entry level 399$ machine.
look at this Blackmagic:

a console which not exist is more powerful than another console which not exist...

in this crazy world facts don't matter.... feel free to follow your dreams and imaginations... for next 1000 pages
If you dare argue that you will be called a Xbox Fanboy.
 
Arrow physics and melee combat in HZD says Hi 😜
Final Fight arcade = lots of sprites on screen, great animations, great graphics, 2 players mode.
Final Fight SNES = way less sprites + reduction in grapics + slowdowns for a worse experience. It's awfull to play.
Final Fight SD = great and beautiful game that is only inspired from the original FF and takes from the start of the project the hardware limitations into account. It's a pleasure to play.
Final Fight CD = more sprites + better graphics than SNES + great animations + cd sound + 2 players mode means a better experience, quite close to the arcade and sometimes better.
Final Fight One = new music and sounds but worse than SNES, skins from SFAlpha, low res.
Final Fight HD = perfect experience on HD consoles + online play.

That's how more or less power translate with the same game.
 
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Ar¢tos

Member
You hurting.

I don't know about 1440p 120fps, BOY are you CRAZY ?!?
Yeah it's possible but at low or medium not High (details) 1440p.

Most gamers play with a Monitor not a TV, Input Lag son.

Nope, next gen graphics 1080p.

Now imagine him say "i brought a Dev kit home" how would that sounds like, i bet you are one of those who believes in santa klaus.
And btw he didnt bring sh!t home, why would he waste he's family time when he mess with Dev Kits at work.

Everybody knows that, i'm sure we will see a lot of 1080p RT games, even on the back cover of CD's "support Ray Tracing"

You hurting.

It's plenty for 1080p/mid 1440p.

Discussing business model, cause of your denial posts about an entry level 399$ machine.

If you dare argue that you will be called a Xbox Fanboy.
Do you really believe that 150m home consoles are connected to monitors instead of TVs?
I can assure you that 99% of them aren't. Most console owners are casuals, not hardcore gamers.
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Do you really believe that 150m home consoles are connected to monitors instead of TVs?
I can assure you that 99% of them aren't. Most console owners are casuals, not hardcore gamers.

There is no reason to argue this point as we have no way of knowing how many consoles are hooked up to monitors.

I consider myself a pretty hardcore gamer and I play on monitors and the group of guys I play with around 10 or so most of them use monitors as well.

But then again all of us also PC game.

But by far the larger number are on TVs just we have no way of knowing said number.
 
Do you really believe that 150m home consoles are connected to monitors instead of TVs?
I can assure you that 99% of them aren't. Most console owners are casuals, not hardcore gamers.
There is no reason to argue this point as we have no way of knowing how many consoles are hooked up to monitors.

I consider myself a pretty hardcore gamer and I play on monitors and the group of guys I play with around 10 or so most of them use monitors as well.

But then again all of us also PC game.

But by far the larger number are on TVs just we have no way of knowing said number.
I did think about it before posting it but you gotta think of it this way, most best selling games depend on input lag (response time) Call of Duty, FIFA etc... these sells millions of units each release, people playing those games interact with each other so ... word of mouth type of knowledge & they know the best way to get a higher % of winning is getting themselfs a monitor.
Add to that next gen promotion being 120 fps and most TV's don't display this, most people will buy monitors to play next gen games, TV's cost a fortune, specially a good 120 Hz/4k.
 
Please don't rekindle the feud.
If Eurogamer published something about it, please link.

Well, don't blame me. Blame the devs then. :D

This is nice post :

As a developer I'll tell you why I absolutely hate the idea of Lockhart.

When you go into the next generation of any console, it is always a premium buy-in. Some are ready day one to pay whatever price for next gen, whether that's $399 or $599.

Let's talk about $599. The PS3 did not launch at $599. It launched at $499, with a SKU that was the same base hardware but lesser hard drive space, no extra media slots, and a few other extras that didn't make the cut. Growth of the PS3 didn't start happening until a new $499 SKU was introduced that had more limited backwards compatibility and features.

Think about that for a minute: why would sales growth occur at $499 when the system launched at $499 to begin with? Because the new $499 system wasn't marketed as an "inferior" step down from the $599 version. It was the new PS3 SKU going forward. And because of that, people perceived the price at $499. Then we had the $399 PS3, and so on.

Microsoft wants it all, day one. They want the premium super hardware buyers. They want the soccer moms. They want the kids who only get one big gift per year. They want the busy traveler that can only game in the cloud. They want the subscription junkie that only plays through Game Pass. They think they can get there with two SKUs: one super premium console that's maybe $499 and one lesser console for $399. The market won't see the $399 console because again, the next gen buy-in at launch is ALWAYS PREMIUM. The perception will be the high end SKU is the true next gen console, and it won't be until that one declines in price that you'll see a bigger audience coming into the Xbox ecosystem.

The ramifications for a lesser SKU are huge, just like the Xbox Core/Arcade. You're already seeing that now with Xbox One X/S- some recent games like the Outer Worlds look worse on XB1X than PS4 Pro because they're upscaled ports of XB1S. You will see a LOT of that if there are two SKUs on the market, guaranteed. The premium Xbox will be a worse console because of the existence of Lockhart. Meanwhile, the PS5 has nothing other than itself to scale for, and that's huge.

But wait you say, Apple does this with the iPhone Pro and the standard colorful iPhones! You cannot bring the phone market into the console one. The comparison makes no sense. Eventually, at some point, you will need a new phone. You need it to basically live in this day and age. Sony and MS already have an uphill battle marketing and selling next gen because of the PS4 Pro and XB1X. It will be more difficult showing off amazing looking games because we're already playing amazing looking games. They have to get there with features, with quality of life features, with things that will cause this next gen to be a much slower start than I think this gen was. When your main selling point is less features at a lower price with Lockhart, you have a severe problem.

I hope they don't do this. This feels like marketing and executives meddling in the video game space. It feels aimless and stupid.

 
Wouldn't a two-tiered Scarlett on launch day give Microsoft "permission" to make Anaconda as premium and expensive as they want? I mean they could make a $699 beast as long as they also have a $399 entry level option at the same time. Or they could go the other way and make Lockhart a super-value offering at like $299 while Anaconda can still be sold at PS5 or lower pricing for price competitiveness.

As long as Lockhart is truly capable of the full next gen experience, but just in lower resolution, then it could be a brilliant strategy to get the install base built faster than Sony can at a premium price only.

The problem is a $399 "entry level" system no longer actually fits the "entry level" price. That is the same price as PS4 was at the start of this gen, but the PS4 was by all metrics the premium dollar-for-power offering at its time, whereas Lockhart would be (arguably) the weakest of its offerings for its respective generation?

It gets even worst when you consider Sony could be willing to put PS5 anywhere between $400 and $500. If they position PS5 at just $450, for example, Lockhart loses SO much of its appeal right off the bat. Why pay $50 less for a much weaker offering when the extra $50 gets you a true next-generation experience? It would be almost exactly similar to the situation the 32X found itself in decades ago: viewed as a stopgap, but at least the 32X was modestly priced for its day (compared to launch prices of PS1 and Saturn). A $399 Lockhart would not be modestly priced AT ALL compared to a $450 or even $500 PS5.

You guys are overestimating how much new consoles generally appeal to price-conscious customers, and underestimating how much hardcore and core early adopters (who make up the vast majority of consumers within the launch period, and even going into the first year or two) will pay a premium for systems that can justify it. Even in markets like the U.S and U.K the XBO was selling relatively on pace with the PS4 for the first few months because it had other factors such as key software releases to help justify the premium. It wasn't able to sustain that, obviously, but a few months it did.

A $399 Lockhart is not going to get the casual or mass market rushing to pick a next-gen console up. Even a $299 Lockhart won't necessarily do such. Those types of people tend to wait until around Black Friday and holiday shopping deals are in place to pick systems up, and usually pick up key annual releases alongside them. So a $299 Lockhart does not too much for MS throughout the rest of the year except possibly taking up shelf space and production costs from more Anaconda units.

Now I'm just focusing on a few specific markets here; for all we know Lockhart could just be contained to a few key developing markets where maybe it makes more sense. If the unit is particularly streaming-focused then I can see even more a reason to release it in those given markets but withhold releasing it in places like the U.S, where internet infrastructure is mostly garbage and the market is more tuned with paying a premium for a worthwhile experience. Likewise I can probably see them withholding Anaconda in markets like Brazil, India or South Africa, places where tariffs kill official console releases and prices or have better internet infrastructures to make a system like Lockhart more attractive.

My bigger hang-up with Lockhart is still the idea that it could be focusing too much on localized (non-streaming) gaming at lower fidelity/resolution; the fact it'll have lesser resources than PS5 and Anaconda means that it can hold back the scope of 3rd-party games on those systems in areas besides graphics; I'm talking things like AI, physics systems, neural network adaptive learning algorithms etc. If Lockhart's just mostly focused on streaming then it wouldn't be as big of a deal, and could probably even just come out for $199 and be a genuine value offering for key markets where it'd benefit the most this early in the generation.

Guess we'll see where the pieces fall.
 

MadAnon

Member
Another thing which puts 7nm+ into question is the fact that it uses different design rules while 6nm, 5nm EUV nodes will use the same as 7nm for easier transition. 7nm+ sounds a bit like an outlier node you can't just easily shrink existing 7nm designs to. That's why there are reports of majority skipping 7nm+ and jumping straight to 6nm. If both Sony and MS are planning mid gen refreshes or slim versions then 7nm+ makes no sense. Would mean that full RDNA2 isn't a thing in consoles either.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member

McHuj

Member
12 TF and a 3.5 GHz CPU? That's new.

Also 13 GB of games and 3 for the OS. That's new info as well. Defintely rules out a DDR4 pool for the OS.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Lets say that it is in fact 16GB of total RAM. Is that enough?
Yes they won't be targeting over 4k. They had to cut some where and the wide bus gets expensive board tracings and can make node shrinks harder more expensive. 32 gigs would be way expensive unless you want to cut the cooling and TF back a lot. I'll hold reservations on this because if MS hit 12 that means Sony is in the mid 13s from the insider's which I can't believe.
 
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Fitzchiv

Member
You sound like a selfrightous person, but cant you see this affordability is an illusion, because you still have to pay full price in the end (and like I have said probably even more). The same way people can get a bank loan and buy 500$ xbox anaconda console, just to pay very little each month for the next 5-8 years. I would rather do it this way than play on something like lockhart, because games on it will not only look worse but run worse too.

Jesus Christ. It is NOT about people being unable to add up.

What you, or I, would prefer is based on our circumstances. What others prefer is based on theirs. There are people out there who don't have $100 extra in the bank today, but may feel an extra $10 a month is manageable. They're the ones who could buy a console on credit, or subscription, and who may look at a cheaper machine with a huge library of games for a standing charge as how they give their kid a game console for Christmas.

Call me self righteous, but I can see that difference in affordability - because I don't have my head up my arse.
 

bitbydeath

Member
And the 12tf crew is going strong and will eventually be vindicated. 8/9 TF ninjas fall back.

giphy.gif
 
I kind of expected news this week since OsirisBlack OsirisBlack resurfaced with info as he knew this stuff was coming out and wasnt worried about burning his source.
or he's completely full of shit and doesn't know anything at all. Has he successfully predicted anything that people didn't already know?

Also, wasn't his prediction for Scarlet less than 10TF? If this latest Windows Central rumor is true, then he's quite a bit off base.
 
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Fake

Gold Member
According to several sources familiar with Microsoft's plans, Anaconda is targeting around 12 teraflops (TF) of computing power, compared to the Xbox One X's 6TF, and the Xbox One S's 1.4.
Both Lockhart and Anaconda reportedly sport eight CPU cores targetting around 3.5GHz, with Anaconda reaching a bit higher per core than Lockhart.

We're told that Scarlett will guarantee 13GB of RAM for games, with 3GB on the OS a total of 16GB. The X, by comparison, offered a "maximum" of 9GB for games, which often varied based on what the OS was doing.
As noted, always take rumors with a pinch of salt, but we're confident in our sourcing on this.
 

Aceofspades

Banned
or he's completely full of shit and doesn't know anything at all. Has he successfully predicted anything that people didn't already know?

Also, wasn't his prediction for Scarlet less than 10TF? If this latest Windows Central rumor is true, then he's quite a bit off base.

No, the opposite really, he said both are north of 10TF with PS5 slight advantage.
 
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