Support NeoGAF

[SSfox]

Oh another episode of Phil feeling the need to play the police man, how cute

If he want to give lessons on those "muh console war is bad" he should've start with his friends:




Matt made a good point, but don't think those Phil saying are innocent, he wouldn't gave a flying f*ck about all those things if they were leading the marking (which they aren't of course)

 

[Aceofspades]

Xbox chief: the best argument against the Xbox Series S was Sony

Microsoft says it’s behind Sony on manufacturing its next-gen consoles

www.theverge.com

Sorry guys if this has already been discussed, can you give me a heads up on your thoughts if so.... So Phill according to this article has said the reason there aren't so many units compared to PS5 is due to them waiting on AMD to supply the right technology for their chips.

So he's again making the full RDNA 2 claim again I guess.

Whatever MS was waiting for is definitely not worth it

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

PS5 "will likely be the biggest console launch in history"

Sales of the PS5 could be significantly higher than those of the PS4, potentially making the console's launch the biggest in history. In a pair of tweets, GamesIndustry.biz publisher Christopher Dring said that figures from some markets suggested that Sony's console was on course for a record-breaking launch.

PS5 "will likely be the biggest console launch in history"

Sales were probably "much bigger" than for the PS4

www.gamesradar.com

 

[Zheph]

Oh another episode of Phil feeling the need to play the police man, how cute

If he want to give lessons on those "muh console war is bad" he should've start with his friends:




Matt made a good point, but don't think those Phil saying are innocent, he wouldn't gave a flying f*ck about all those things if they were leading the marking (which they aren't of course)

The 3rd screenshot is priceless....

 

[Larvana]

Oh another episode of Phil feeling the need to play the police man, how cute

If he want to give lessons on those "muh console war is bad" he should've start with his friends:




Matt made a good point, but don't think those Phil saying are innocent, he wouldn't gave a flying f*ck about all those things if they were leading the marking (which they aren't of course)

And you're reposting someone whose a known PS fanboy, then again I'm not surprised.

 

[huraga]

I read this yesterday and found it consistent with thoughts I was having about where the final maturity of development will end on both systems and how they'll compare.

Like you, I was thinking that the CU count they've got in the XsX isn't going to be a linear gain, no matter how well they parallelize the workload situation with advance software tooling.

Cache availability per shader array seems to be less per CU in the XsX, even if they are limiting the arrays to 9 active CUs to match the PS5 setup in these early games - just at a clockspeed of almost 400mhz less.
Looking at the faceoff data so far it does feel like a comparison of a 36CU GPU at 1.8GHz versus a 36CU GPU at 2.2Ghz with cache scrubbers - where reducing the frame-time, by upping the frame-rate, pushes too hard on the GPU with less cache bandwidth per frame, and less clock ticks per frame, that then results in needing to reduce LODs and resolution to stay within the data & processing bandwidth as seen in that headlight comparison picture on Dirt5 in performance mode.

Putting aside the major changes that we might expect to see from more use of async and Cerny's geometry engine on the PS5, I'm at a loss as to how the XsX can effectively utilise all of the CUs to its advantage with ICE team level solutions to get to PS5 level day 1 performance/fidelity without XsX needing to target a lower resolution that offsets its deficiency in rasterization disproportionally beyond the clockspeed to freeup cache bandwidth for the extra CUs to contribute evenly with a fully parallelized workload.

I've seen comparison comments about the PS3 and XsX situation and how it will improve, but where the PS3 SPUs are self contained with embedded memory local stores - and could DMA individually or any workgroup combination independent of the PPU once setup and kicked off - the extra XsX CUs within an array will contend for shared cache on every read and write, and won't even have the half-way-house situation of the Tempest Engine.

Like you said, a DLSS solution is probably the intended use case, although I wonder if tessellation could also save cache bandwidth to make up the current difference., even if the DLSS/tessellation might need to be more aggressive coming from lower LOD levels and lower native resolution for high frame-rate modes I expect the XsX with fully advance tool options to exceed the IQ of the Dirt5 120hz mode on the PS5.

Your comment seemed like good food for thought, anyway and even had me wondering if the tools narratives could both be true. Xbox tools to port games are ahead of schedule and not coming in hot, but still far away from the ICE team level solutions they need to match PS5 day1 results with Sony's tools that are coming in hot.

Your explanation is very interesting

But, don´t you think that maybe the engineers from AMD and Microsoft have thought on this? Maybe we don´t have enough knowledge to understand how they will use this...

 

[SSfox]

And you're reposting someone whose a known PS fanboy, then again I'm not surprised.

Doesn't matter who's this guy is (don't know him personally), but what he's posting are facts/aren't fake.

 

[SSfox]

 

[edotlee]

 

[Codexer]

 

[Mr Moose]

"Based on preliminary data VGChartz "
Oh...

 

[Neo Blaster]

I think the LG C9 and CX OLEDs are both 12 bit color panels. But the CX has a 40 Gb/s HDMI 2.1 port cap (unlike the C9 w/ 48) so it cannot display 2160p @ 120 Hz HDR video with 12 bit color at RGB 4:4:4.

Not a huge issue tho. Both seem great.

There are no 12-bit panels on the market right now, that's just the reason LG reduced HDMI bandwidth on CX to 40Gbps compared to 48 on C9.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

This is the same dude who claimed to be a game tester at Santa Monica and made claims about studio acquisitions by Sony. His profile and tweets always smelt really fishy.

 

[Imtjnotu]

You think I should get a 2nd? Maybe a DE this time?

Just hit mine at 5am pacific

 

[Three Jackdaws]

 

[MasterCornholio]

Screw you scalpers.

Saying this ahead of time because I know I won't be able to get one because of them.

 

[mejin]

 

[sircaw]

Sony certainly does have the Midas touch it seems

 

[TheGejsza]

What's the deal with 2.1 HDMI at the moment?

Do we really expect more than 4k 60FPS current gen (I know there are games in 6k like ORI or 4k 120FPS)? Or there are some other limitations o 2.0 HDMI that I am not aware of, can someone elaborate?

 

[Cherrypepsi]

I don't know man.... I feel like you should not talk about sales numbers before you can actually supply the product in the right quantities to all the markets.

It's ridiculous to even to even call it their biggest console launch ever

It's their biggest console ever, that's a fact!

 

[Three Jackdaws]

 

[Handy Fake]

Law of Transitive Property.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I suspect it´s not only PS5 problem. In Beyond3d, they had share that Xbox version uses XDK, the X1 development kit.

CP2077 kinda looks shit imo. Gameplay and current gen graphics look poor. Writing seems off too.

 

[timmyp53]

What's the deal with 2.1 HDMI at the moment?

Do we really expect more than 4k 60FPS current gen (I know there are games in 6k like ORI or 4k 120FPS)? Or there are some other limitations o 2.0 HDMI that I am not aware of, can someone elaborate?

Not sure what info you want. What limitations do you want clarified?

 

[spartan30gr]

 

[PaintTinJr]

Your explanation is very interesting

But, don´t you think that maybe the engineers from AMD and Microsoft have thought on this? Maybe we don´t have enough knowledge to understand how they will use this...

What additional knowledge would we need that isn't - or hasn't been - available to graphics programmers ?

Cerny purposefully mentioning things like cache scrubbers and doing a hypothetical comparison of the same teraflops at different CU count and clocks, a theory comparison that has greatly informed us all (IMHO). Xbox didn't bring an alternative solution to light in the months that followed, or even in the hotchips reveal - despite tweeting and revealing XsX specific named graphics techniques - so it is safe to assume the XsX works like we expect it to, when the head to head data corroborates this IMO.

(IMHO) What has changed is the strain on the cache bandwidth for XsX, because the target is now to match something quicker doing more work per frame. Had the XsX been more performant, then it would have set the target workload, and chosen an IQ, resolution, and frame-rate that made levering all the CUs in a frame optimal, but playing catch up - on mutliplats - looks like it can only be done by taking a LOD and resolution hit in advance to satisfy the allotted performance per frame on XsX, and do so with enough headroom to bring those other CUs into the equation, and hopefully in a more meaningful gain than the initial drop in IQ.

 

[timmyp53]

So far Spiderman miles morales has the best PS5 card implementation which includes activity times, trophy and activity progress tracking, and the ability to hop right into activities or story missions from the home menu cold in 5-7 secs flat or in game in 2-3 secs.

Utilizing it heavily.

 

[ZywyPL]

I don't know man.... I feel like you should not talk about sales numbers before you can actually supply the product in the right quantities to all the markets.

It's ridiculous to even to even call it their biggest console launch ever

It's their biggest console ever, that's a fact!

Well Sony knows best how many PS5 they have sold and how many PS4 were sold in the same timeframe, whether those consoles went to actual customers or scalpers, that's another story.

What's the deal with 2.1 HDMI at the moment?

Do we really expect more than 4k 60FPS current gen (I know there are games in 6k like ORI or 4k 120FPS)? Or there are some other limitations o 2.0 HDMI that I am not aware of, can someone elaborate?

Time will tell, but after Warzone and R6 I can see many MP-only titles also getting a 120FPS update, we're talking about titles like Fortnite, Minecraft, Apex Legends and such, games that have huge ongoing userbase, and those people are not going anywhere anytime soon. Most of those games already run at 60FPS on Pro/1X, some even on the base consoles.

 

[Md Ray]

 

[DrDamn]

weird that they're selling disc version for so cheap but not digital..

Probably means they have misjudged production, overestimating demand. Lots of physical discs out there not selling mean you get sales in the physical space that don't happen in the digital store.

 

[LivingD3AD]

This Tom Warren guy is a pure fanboy and doing maximum damage control for XSX

Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War also demonstrates the differences between these consoles. It shows an advantage for Xbox Series X in ray tracing performance, but Microsoft’s console falls behind in the 120fps mode. Black Ops Cold Warincludes ray-traced shadows, which aren’t as demanding as ray-traced reflections, but they add some depth to scenes. The PS5 drops to 40fps in some scenes with ray tracing, where the Xbox Series X holds 60fps.

Why is the PS5 outperforming the ‘world’s most powerful console’?

The PS5 is punching well above its weight

www.theverge.com

Would you believe he hasn’t known that those frame dips are minor Bugs on PS5?!

 

[Codexer]

 

[jroc74]

So far Spiderman miles morales has the best PS5 card implementation which includes activity times, trophy and activity progress tracking, and the ability to hop right into activities or story missions from the home menu cold in 5-7 secs flat or in game in 2-3 secs.

Utilizing it heavily.

I agree.

Spider-Man Remastered is close, but it doesn't work that good until you actually start and play the game.

Once you do that and bring up the menu, then the cards are as good.

Miles and Astro Playroom are good examples of card use. I haven't tried Sack Boy yet, but that might be another.

 

[timmyp53]

Impressive RT shadow examples in the game. Ill have to see if it's noticeable in motion compared to cubemapped.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Based on the reports, I think 3d audio really required a premium headset to shine. I think the key is sound separation. Unfortunately, I don’t have an open back. So I wonder if sound stage also has an impact.

Not sure, On Spider-man it is good. On other games they seem not implemented properly. But if you turn off 3D Audio in those games the clarity is extremely good for such a cheap headset. Also bass is nice and not overwhelming, although I would rather have more.

 

[HoofHearted]

Is it me or does ps5 have more smokes in weapons?

Maybe it's because of the higher clock speed on the PS5 generating more heat on the gun?

 

[Md Ray]

2.6 GHz

Where are those who said PS5 GPU was a last min OC?

Remember when this tweet was labelled as FUD?



Doesn't look like FUD anymore does it?

 

[Handy Fake]

It's a haptic-driven VR cock ring.

 

[HoofHearted]

Apologies if this has been confirmed/debunked

Are PS5's shipping with different fan models?

Google Translation:

"The Numerics report that there are 2 models of fans on #PS5 including one that makes a hell of a racket! (and a 3rd on the official Sony teardown video)"

 

[HoofHearted]

I just saw an article that there's more stock available today apparently

Which site?

 

[Insane Metal]

Tom Warren seem concerned.

 

[saintjules]

The only PSVR I want is this

 

[Traxtech]

Tom Warren seem concerned.

Oh Tom, lol.

I bet he's upset the Xbox isn't a smaller profile design so he could ingest it into his ass easier.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

So far Spiderman miles morales has the best PS5 card implementation which includes activity times, trophy and activity progress tracking, and the ability to hop right into activities or story missions from the home menu cold in 5-7 secs flat or in game in 2-3 secs.

Utilizing it heavily.

Have you used the cards in Demon Souls? you could literally hop between worlds within 2-3 seconds without having to ever touch an archstone ever. The level of immediacy sony is able to demonstrate at such an early stage for PS5 via miles and demon's souls is truly commendable. Cold War has it's card system too, but dear lord is it a broken mess.

 

[Traxtech]

Have you used the cards in Demon Souls? you could literally hop between worlds within 2-3 seconds without having to ever touch an archstone ever. The level of immediacy sony is able to demonstrate at such an early stage for PS5 via miles and demon's souls is truly commendable. Cold War has it's card system too, but dear lord is it a broken mess.

Downside to that is you'll have to give up all your souls, otherwise it's brilliant

 

[Md Ray]

Tom Warren seem concerned.

He must be feeling hurt after running with "Yes, Series S has a faster CPU than PS5" suggesting as though even Series S will outperform PS5.

And then reality hit.

 

[Insane Metal]

He must be feeling hurt after running with "Yes, Series S has a faster CPU than PS5" suggesting as if even Series S will outperform PS5.

And then reality hit.

Lol, yes.

I also like how he put the consoles to take the picture just to make PS5 look like a giant piece of shit next to XSX. Low move.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Tom Warren seem concerned.

He wants one to be better than the other, but right it isn't. Also he says he's not in favor of any one console. Tom Hypcrite Warren!

 

[Insane Metal]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. BURN!

 

[MasterCornholio]

Tom Warren seem concerned.

Both systems will see performance gains in the future. What he should ask Microsoft is when they will expect the XSX to vastly outperform the PS5. Hopefully XSX owners don't have to wait long for that to happen because it's something some of the expected from the beginning.