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MasterCornholio
Member
I'm not sure I want to be the bottom picture guy
How do you play games like that? lol
He's not human.
I remember doing something like that once and then I hurt myself. Had a really stiff neck for the rest of the day.
P.S Actually a true story from my head banging days.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Right; which Sony all but admitted was a strategy with PS3. (and TBH, PS4 games are evidence they continued with that)
I would hope that they would now be trying to make their customizations at least more documented, and share tools with external companies earlier. It's clear Sony does that internally across their studios; it's rather obvious if you play their games. I would hope they would be sharing that externally now, more than they did in the PS3 days.
But I do think it's also possible Sony purposefully keeps some things internal so they stand out.
It just doesn't come across like some great philosophy to me.
Honestly something in between Sony and MS's approach would be best. Release easy to use SDKs for everything, including your customizations.. document them well, etc. Then allow underlying "to the metal" access if someone wants to try to outdo your SDK.. and if you internally outdo it.. offer at least documentation on that approach.
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fragganaut
Member
I would interpret "easy to learn and hard to master" exactly like, keep the initial hurdle easy manageable while also provide deep and impactful access to the hardware for the experienced developers
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Sure; the thing that might be missing though is educating other developers on how to take advantage.
That was definitely, and admittedly missing in the PS3 era from Sony. Is it still missing? Is that attitude still there?
Because literally saying you set out to make something difficult is not a great thing to advertise lol
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3liteDragon
Member
MasterCornholio
Member
LiquidRex
Member
DEEP SILVER AND 4A GAMES ANNOUNCE METRO EXODUS PC ENHANCED EDITION AND REVEAL MORE DETAILS FOR PLAYSTATION 5 AND XBOX SERIES X|S UPGRADE — 4A Games
4A Games and Deep Silver announce the Metro Exodus PC Enhanced Edition, reveal details about new Ray Tracing features for PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S and PC, and give info on Mac and Linux versions of Metro Exodus.
www.4a-games.com.mt
Awesome
Kholinar
Banned
Jesus tapdancing Christ!! Someone make a thread about this. 4K60 with full RTGI and 4k textures on consoles?
MasterCornholio
Member
I'm definitely interested in seeing the results. Hopefully they don't half ass it (talking about the developers BTW).
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Didnt Cerny imply that RTGI would be far less GPU intensive than RT reflections?
I wonder if thats how they are able to do 4k 60 fps without DLSS.
Interfectum
Member
No doubt there is upscaling involved. No way is it going to be native 4K.
Kholinar
Banned
Oh for sure. The features chart actually say there is next-gen temporal reconstruction tech used.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Setsuna Mudou
Member
That's nitpicking of the highest order though. I suppose it's not quoting, you're right on that, it's paraphrasing
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
He literally said it came from Cerny's mouth lol.... and.. again.. nothing in the DF statement speaks to difficulty.That's nitpicking of the highest order though. I suppose it's not quoting, you're right on that, it's paraphrasing
So:
- Not actually a Cerny quote
- Did not say what he claimed it said
Nitpicking? This forum is fucking insane lol
I mean you guys are actually hyping the idea of something being difficult to master.. meaning we won't see many games using it, or wont' for a long time. I mean.. wut? Something being more advanced that is new/etc. is good... but actually intentionally difficult? Nah.. you sound like clowns to me.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
He says it here. Starts with audio being very light then talks about GI being a bit more taxing, then goes on to say that shadows and reflections are far more taxing with full path tracing being next to impossible.
Timestamped:
Setsuna Mudou
Member
there ya go buddy, use this one next time so
IntentionalPun
will get off your ass difficult to master
Setsuna Mudou
Member
check my previous post, thx
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
He said that about PS4.. I already found that link by googling it. It's a quote from the same deleted interview I couldn't find good quotes from. That wasn't really what was being contested here.check my previous post, thx
Again.. he never said that about PS5, and the sentence that wasn't a quote written by Richard at DF didn't say anything about difficulty lol (nor has he ever claimed that's his "philosophy")
You guys just keep ignoring that part. DF is just reviewing the Road to the PS5 talk anyways.. where yes, he describes features that won't necessarily be used at first. He never once claims they are actually difficult to master. Maybe they are, and maybe that's INTENTIONAL.. if it's intentional, that isn't a good thing lol
And ethomaz responded to me, not the other way around... what's with the dick riding here?
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TheRedRiders
Member
It confused me as well, RT Global Illumination is very expensive on the GPU unless Cerny knows something we don't.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
I can back quote your comment about Cerny "never" having said anything about being difficult to master. Took me about 5 seconds and years of google fu to disprove that.
Literally just did that because of how aggressive you were being on what's really a nitpick. It's about Cerny's philosophy and approach to designing a platform. So it would apply to the PS4, PS5 and PS Vita for that matter.
Is it ok now? Feels like we can all be happy and move past this one
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I didn't say that though.. I said I couldn't find him saying that.. and thanked ethomaz for finding the quote. The actual interview that comes from is long-ago deleted.
LOL.. yes his "philosophy" is to intentionally make things difficult. Good stuff.
He's definitely never described it as his philosophy.. it's one thing he said once about PS4 in an interview.
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FranXico
Member
The First Of Them
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's 100% dynamic 4K, which is ok.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
Well I'm not Mark Cerny, but I do think I get the sense. I interpret it in the way that creates accessibility for those that want something quick and simple, it's there. But for those that like to dig deeper and find untapped potential, it's there too. Maybe it's about layers of abstraction. You can have a game engine that is really easy to use, but has very little in terms of customization options. Means you probably can get a basic game done rather quickly, but probably your game will "feel" like most other games in that engine. If the game engine has a lot of customization options, that makes it harder to master, but when you invest the time, you'll have created a piece of work that few people thought possible.
Might be why we have games like GoT and TLoU 2 in hardware that is on paper so underpowered running laps around most modern games built for powerful PCs.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I think people got confused by the unintentional order of this graph:
EDIT: Ok, seems like it's intentional.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
MasterCornholio
Member
I think people got confused by the unintentional order of this graph:
The colors also have people confused. Green (easy) --> Red (hard).
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Which is accumulation though.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
I think people got confused by the unintentional order of this graph:
I don't think the order is unintentional. While showing that slide on the road to PS5 presentation, Cerny refers to the number of rays/second needed and they clearly scale up with each of those features.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
His words are confusing people lol
Check out the video I linked above. He's clearly talking about rays per second.
The chart colors might be counting accumulative cost, but he's used the colors in other places during the presentation to show that not all graphics engines consume power the same way.
Also the fact that the next gen versions of Metro are using RTGI but not reflections on consoles could also point to GI being cheaper to implement on consoles. TBH, This is a good thing. i'd rather have RT GI than RT reflections.
I'll have whatever Joel is on.
TheRedRiders
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well, there is no way reflections in isolation are more taxing than GI or Shadows according to people on here, across the interweb, and even DF, right?
I think the reason we are seeing reflections out of the gate more often versus the other two methods, is that it's easier to implement than rewriting their GI / lighting engines at the moment.
So if true on the taxation level, that's a good thing for gamers from these consoles to PCs for eye candy, and does that mean all those RT experts on analysis sites need to rewrite their thinking? Time will tell.
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ethomaz
Banned
Actually that is the order of light to heavy... even the colors are meant to say that.I think people got confused by the unintentional order of this graph:
He even implied that talking about this slide.
Or you will try to day Metro devs choosing to remove advanced RT reflections instead RT Global Illumination on Series X and PS5 was unintentional too?
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MasterCornholio
Member
Pretty much. Developers can choose what kind of RT they will do in their games. For CoD it was shadows and for Spiderman it was the reflections.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Rest of us
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Insane Metal
Member
The rest of the first of us
LucidFlux
Member
So the day of the die shot has finally come!
Looks like the unified L3 CPU cache was squashed (not terribly surprising), Geometry engine looks rather large right in the middle of the CUs, and the I/O complex is also taking up a nice chunk of silicone as expected. Curious to see if someone is able to identify all the components in that area. Interested to see how much SDRAM was added and overall how much relative space was spent on I/O.
Not too many surprises tbh except does the CPU actually have a total of 16MB of L3 cache? That's 2x more than what was expected is it not? Looking at the XsX diagram it only seems to have 8MB L3 between all 8 CPU cores.
Looks like the unified L3 CPU cache was squashed (not terribly surprising), Geometry engine looks rather large right in the middle of the CUs, and the I/O complex is also taking up a nice chunk of silicone as expected. Curious to see if someone is able to identify all the components in that area. Interested to see how much SDRAM was added and overall how much relative space was spent on I/O.
Not too many surprises tbh except does the CPU actually have a total of 16MB of L3 cache? That's 2x more than what was expected is it not? Looking at the XsX diagram it only seems to have 8MB L3 between all 8 CPU cores.
icerock
Member
There you have it, GamePass version of TLOU II.
Yields are 73%?! Yikes.
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FranXico
Member
I did not notice that, where is that highlighted?
MasterCornholio
Member
What makes you say that? I'm very curious to know how you saw that.
Edit: Ok I think I see it as well.
Very interesting if true.
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Loxus
Member
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