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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Dodkrake

Banned
Hitman 3 its only one section when PS5 have better famerate, but you too blind and dont see it....Hitman 3 is KO on PS5. Sorry. Try more hard...

That's why I called that his argument was a strawmen. I specified cross-gen vs gen-aware, and Riky didn't address it, he simply brought something I hadn't even discussed.

Also, convenient that you ignore the argument he made around "Village runs better" on 1 section, but then you point out the same for Hitman. At least be coherent with your criticism.

Finally, I stated the differences and said they both trade blows. The argument that one is "clearly superior / superior" is just a lie. I don't care what console people buy, whatever makes them happy.

My main problem is the hypocrisy around Xbox's defence force and the amount smokescreens being thrown just because they can't be happy with what they have is insane. This is not about "what console is better", this is about "playstation must be worse". This is about me stating that the Xbox is the superior console for BC and that not being enough for little console warriors, because it must not only be the superior BC machine, it must reign supreme amongst everybody, and don't you dare suggest otherwise. This is why Sony getting a timed exclusive is considered capital punishment, but MS buying Zenimax is A-OK. (I'm against timed exclusives btw).

People should be grateful they have two very powerful consoles, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, but instead I find myself commenting and either being called a pedophile (btw, one week ban for calling someone a pedophile (y)) or dealing with bad faith arguments that completely derail the original topic. The amount of toxic discussion, mostly (not all of it) coming from "one side" is absolutely insane.

Riky's comment is super fucking weird but thats what happens when you all gang up on one dude and push a man too far. At this point, we know what Riky prefers so lets just move on instead of trying to have heated debates with him every single day. It's Riky who lost it today, it will be someone else tomorrow. Clearly he was a bit frazzled by the constant dogpiling. I think it's time for you all to start using the ignore feature a bit more. Trust me it helps.

"all gang up on one dude". Are you for real? He's the one that can't have a civil discussion, blatantly lies on his comments (as pointed by many users), cherry pics and misrepresents data to suit his narrative... I'm sorry, but that doesn't make him a victim. People dog pile on him because he can't hear the words "PS does X better than Xbox" without going ballistic. Also, the immature LOL and Triggered emojis everyt ime someone politely disagrees with him show that he is not looking for a discussion, but trying to get a reaction.

Btw, no matter how triggered I may get, there's certain lines I'll not cross. Calling someone a pedophile is one of them.

That said, end rant and end mentioning Riky. I'm blocking him, and that's that.
 
Aww you couldn't do it without shitting on the system.

Console breaking shortcomings really?

I know it has some flaws but I wouldn't call it serious. Something like a massive hardware failure rate is but coil whine and serviceable BC isn't.
I've noticed you have a tendency to add words that were not said. I at no point said anything about 'console breaking'. You and I can disagree on what is 'serious', but to me serious does not mean console breaking. That would be a 'fatal' flaw and I have never said the PS5 is fatally flawed. To me coil whine IS serious because it is uncertain if it will ever be addressed and I am reminded of it every time I turn the system on. The BC thing IS serious because another company is offering a significantly better experience for the same price. Things like the UI issues are serious because it affects my enjoyment of using the system. Most of these things can be fixed and I hope they will be with time. It is still missing the ability to upgrade it's internal storage and features like VRR and 1440p support are absent. No one is crapping on the PS5 I am just realistic about it. I suppose that comes from experiencing both consoles (XSX+PS5) first hand so I can see(and hear) the difference.

Read my question again: how many of them do you expect to not release a dedicated current-gen version?
Only for those there might be "major" differences on how the new-gen consoles handle them.
I have no idea. When a developer has to go back and write a specific PS5 version just to utilize its features that is a disadvantage. How long will it take for Biomutant to get patched? 3 months? 6? By the time a PS5 version is complete most of the games biggest fans would have already moved on. They are essentially saying it will get better just wait till some new patch comes out at some uncertain date. That isn't a great thing.

If you know how this works, why do you keep selling last gen advantages as some sort of proof of MS' next gen superiority? Are you finally admitting that your sole purpose here is to argue for a brand and not for reality?

This forum is not for the average consumer. We're a niche, and contrary to what you think, some can smell right through your BS. So yeah, that's why I tagged you
Who said that last gen advantages was proof of next gen superiority? MS approach to running games on their platform is certainly superior when a developer can make a game and get multiple outcomes depending of the platform it is running on. It is more than just BC because as people have stated over and over again the PS5 does BC so if that was case both results would be the same.

In many cases games run BETTER than their last gen version with higher resolutions and framerates. That isn't just BC. It is an objectively better way to receive games. Like how game saves work across different versions of cross gen titles and how smart delivery get you the best version of a game based on the platform. MS was just more thoughtful about how these things work. Just calling it BC is the best way to argue for brand over reality. The times they trade blows is ONLY when a native PS5 version of game is made. Perhaps in a few years time when ONLY current gen games will be made that will be fine but in a era when people are struggling to get newer consoles it matters now.

None of this being true takes away from anyone preferring to play Sony's first party titles so if that is the most important thing to you so be it. I tend to play more 3rd party stuff and in many cases it appears MS solution works best for me.



Well this took all of 5 seconds to find.



I wonder how you are going to strawman this.
How about two quotes one from an engine programmer and another from a lead engine programmer both from a now Microsoft owned studio?


Oh and from the same website you can see a technical producer from a former Microsoft partner calling Series S ‘a trouble’ when it comes to the game development side of the system...

I was HOPING you guys would have some comments from at least this year! The best you can do it point out complaints made BEFORE the XSS even came out. On top of that none of them address things like SFS and VA things to specifically deal with RAM management. Since you guys did your research I'll give a link for everyone else.


Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) – A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2.5x multiplier on average on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance.

2.5x multiplier on average. Do you guys happen to have the comments from the devs you posted from ages ago on how SFS will affect the complaints they made? Can you provide ANY evidence that these features will NOT address their concerns? Are you guys even AWARE that the XSS has the same feature set as the XSX? Are you aware that the XSS is NOT a 4K device and therefore will not need 100GB of memory. It has the same CPU, It has the same SSD. The comments the complaining devs made were not reflective of what development on the XSS will be with a mature dev kit. Bernd Lauert Bernd Lauert also made an excellent point.

People here love posting that tweet over and over again. Just a reminder that id software wanted 64 GB of RAM in the new consoles. Their engine eats up all the available RAM, no matter how much it actually needs. Yet, Doom Eternal runs perfectly fine on a graphics card with 4 GB of VRAM.

It's just hyperbole from a dev who doesn't like any memory constraints at all. Series S is a beast :messenger_beaming:
Brings a tear to my eye. Someone gets it! Thank you.

After all that was said the XSS STILL produces a higher resolution image at 60fps with raytracing on games like RE8 than the X1X(which has more RAM!!) and higher resolution on Biomutant than the PS5 and X1X! Despite the complaints, despite the misinformation the XSS is still providing some pretty impressive outcomes and all that WITHOUT using some of the systems core features. I'll never know why people just can't accept that the XSS is a fantastic value that offers features more expensive consoles lack. It has to simply be console tribalism because at this point the XSS has proven itself at this point. More can be addressed if/when a REAL issue comes up.
 
Thats whats so mind blowing about Rift Apart...its a launch window game. Even comparing it to the PS4 game, which already looked amazing and for it to look like a gen ahead is amazing.

I wouldn't be shocked if Insomniac are doing that with shaders, they didnt wait for UE5 to tap into data streaming so ...lol.
I don’t think they needed to wait for UE5, actually I don’t think several studios need to wait for UE5.

Developers, especially Sony’s first parties should be talented enough to create their own asset streaming pipeline which takes advantage of the low latency and the high bandwidth of the SSD’s.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
"all gang up on one dude". Are you for real? He's the one that can't have a civil discussion, blatantly lies on his comments (as pointed by many users), cherry pics and misrepresents data to suit his narrative... I'm sorry, but that doesn't make him a victim. People dog pile on him because he can't hear the words "PS does X better than Xbox" without going ballistic. Also, the immature LOL and Triggered emojis everyt ime someone politely disagrees with him show that he is not looking for a discussion, but trying to get a reaction.

Btw, no matter how triggered I may get, there's certain lines I'll not cross. Calling someone a pedophile is one of them.

That said, end rant and end mentioning Riky. I'm blocking him, and that's that.
lol I am not defending him. I have had him on ignore since he first started leaving LOL emojis on every single post that dared to talk about MS in a negative light.. It was bizarre and borderline sociopathic, and I was like Im too old for this shit and put him on ignore.

Glad to see you do the same which is what I was trying to say. It will just make the thread much better to browse going forward. There are certain users who derail every single thread, and the onus is on us to not fall for their derails, and putting those guys on ignore goes a long way towards fixing that.

God of War 2 with tessellated ground/rock, million polygon statues/Kratos, and ray traced particles +Dualsense = GOTG

Demon Souls' dual sense implementation doesnt get talked about much, but one of the post release patches upped the speaker sound effects and haptics, and it really enhanced the combat imo. Swords clashing, and piercing armor all had different sounds and feels. Every weapon archetype felt different. I finished the game almost 15 times with every single class and then with pretty much every weapon archetype and aside from Astrobot, it really sold me on the dualsense features for traditional games.
 
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Dodkrake

Banned
Who said that last gen advantages was proof of next gen superiority? MS approach to running games on their platform is certainly superior when a developer can make a game and get multiple outcomes depending of the platform it is running on. It is more than just BC because as people have stated over and over again the PS5 does BC so if that was case both results would be the same.

In many cases games run BETTER than their last gen version with higher resolutions and framerates. That isn't just BC. It is an objectively better way to receive games. Like how game saves work across different versions of cross gen titles and how smart delivery get you the best version of a game based on the platform. MS was just more thoughtful about how these things work. Just calling it BC is the best way to argue for brand over reality. The times they trade blows is ONLY when a native PS5 version of game is made. Perhaps in a few years time when ONLY current gen games will be made that will be fine but in a era when people are struggling to get newer consoles it matters now.

None of this being true takes away from anyone preferring to play Sony's first party titles so if that is the most important thing to you so be it. I tend to play more 3rd party stuff and in many cases it appears MS solution works best for me.

If you didn't, I'm sorry, but I believe I saw you argue for "victories" while discussing BC games. May be wrong, mea-culpa if that's the case.

As for BC, of course the times they trade blows is when a PS5 version is made. The way Sony and MS approached BC is completely different, with Sony's being basically the same approach the PS2 and PS3 had, and MS's being way more advanced. I've seen some videos from DF (titled accordingly for maximum console warring) where they test BC games and then claim the Series X version is superior to the PS5 version, when there is no PS5 version. That's objectively false, misleads the customer, and creates false poor awareness on a brand.

It's like me comparing an Xbox 360 game running on the Series X to the remastered version for PS5 and saying the later wins. It's asinine, it's false advertising, and misleads the audience. Yes the GDK/XDK are better for porting, and they allow for way more flexibility, and that's cool. But devs not being arsed to unlock the same features on Sony consoles because there's more work compiling the game on a different SDK is... well... Not Sony's fault. Kudos to MS for making it possible, though.

As for Smart Delivery, are you aware the PS5 does the same? When I install a game, if 2 gens are available, it allows me to pick which version to install. Both of them do the exact same.

lol I am not defending him. I have had him on ignore since he first started leaving LOL emojis on every single post that dared to talk about MS in a negative light.. It was bizarre and borderline sociopathic, and I was like Im too old for this shit and put him on ignore.

Glad to see you do the same which is what I was trying to say. It will just make the thread much better to browse going forward. There are certain users who derail every single thread, and the onus is on us to not fall for their derails, and putting those guys on ignore goes a long way towards fixing that.
Big thumbs up to this.
 
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dcmk7

Banned
I've noticed you have a tendency to add words that were not said. I at no point said anything about 'console breaking'. You and I can disagree on what is 'serious', but to me serious does not mean console breaking. That would be a 'fatal' flaw and I have never said the PS5 is fatally flawed. To me coil whine IS serious because it is uncertain if it will ever be addressed and I am reminded of it every time I turn the system on. The BC thing IS serious because another company is offering a significantly better experience for the same price. Things like the UI issues are serious because it affects my enjoyment of using the system. Most of these things can be fixed and I hope they will be with time. It is still missing the ability to upgrade it's internal storage and features like VRR and 1440p support are absent. No one is crapping on the PS5 I am just realistic about it. I suppose that comes from experiencing both consoles (XSX+PS5) first hand so I can see(and hear) the difference.


I have no idea. When a developer has to go back and write a specific PS5 version just to utilize its features that is a disadvantage. How long will it take for Biomutant to get patched? 3 months? 6? By the time a PS5 version is complete most of the games biggest fans would have already moved on. They are essentially saying it will get better just wait till some new patch comes out at some uncertain date. That isn't a great thing.


Who said that last gen advantages was proof of next gen superiority? MS approach to running games on their platform is certainly superior when a developer can make a game and get multiple outcomes depending of the platform it is running on. It is more than just BC because as people have stated over and over again the PS5 does BC so if that was case both results would be the same.

In many cases games run BETTER than their last gen version with higher resolutions and framerates. That isn't just BC. It is an objectively better way to receive games. Like how game saves work across different versions of cross gen titles and how smart delivery get you the best version of a game based on the platform. MS was just more thoughtful about how these things work. Just calling it BC is the best way to argue for brand over reality. The times they trade blows is ONLY when a native PS5 version of game is made. Perhaps in a few years time when ONLY current gen games will be made that will be fine but in a era when people are struggling to get newer consoles it matters now.

None of this being true takes away from anyone preferring to play Sony's first party titles so if that is the most important thing to you so be it. I tend to play more 3rd party stuff and in many cases it appears MS solution works best for me.





I was HOPING you guys would have some comments from at least this year! The best you can do it point out complaints made BEFORE the XSS even came out. On top of that none of them address things like SFS and VA things to specifically deal with RAM management. Since you guys did your research I'll give a link for everyone else.


Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) – A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2.5x multiplier on average on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance.

2.5x multiplier on average. Do you guys happen to have the comments from the devs you posted from ages ago on how SFS will affect the complaints they made? Can you provide ANY evidence that these features will NOT address their concerns? Are you guys even AWARE that the XSS has the same feature set as the XSX? Are you aware that the XSS is NOT a 4K device and therefore will not need 100GB of memory. It has the same CPU, It has the same SSD. The comments the complaining devs made were not reflective of what development on the XSS will be with a mature dev kit. Bernd Lauert Bernd Lauert also made an excellent point.


Brings a tear to my eye. Someone gets it! Thank you.

After all that was said the XSS STILL produces a higher resolution image at 60fps with raytracing on games like RE8 than the X1X(which has more RAM!!) and higher resolution on Biomutant than the PS5 and X1X! Despite the complaints, despite the misinformation the XSS is still providing some pretty impressive outcomes and all that WITHOUT using some of the systems core features. I'll never know why people just can't accept that the XSS is a fantastic value that offers features more expensive consoles lack. It has to simply be console tribalism because at this point the XSS has proven itself at this point. More can be addressed if/when a REAL issue comes up.
You asked for a quote. You got exactly that.

I don't get why you even asked for one when you were always going to downplay it through sheer ignorance. Not using features (seriously?!) the guys a lead engine developer, I'm sure he knows what's available to him a little better than you.

Just say 'the developers are wrong' next time. Save yourself some time.

It's a very stupid take whether you write blocks of text or a single sentence.

I've noticed you have a tendency to add words that were not said.
You have a tendency to invent complete sentences which weren't said.
 
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I've noticed you have a tendency to add words that were not said. I at no point said anything about 'console breaking'. You and I can disagree on what is 'serious', but to me serious does not mean console breaking. That would be a 'fatal' flaw and I have never said the PS5 is fatally flawed. To me coil whine IS serious because it is uncertain if it will ever be addressed and I am reminded of it every time I turn the system on. The BC thing IS serious because another company is offering a significantly better experience for the same price. Things like the UI issues are serious because it affects my enjoyment of using the system. Most of these things can be fixed and I hope they will be with time. It is still missing the ability to upgrade it's internal storage and features like VRR and 1440p support are absent. No one is crapping on the PS5 I am just realistic about it. I suppose that comes from experiencing both consoles (XSX+PS5) first hand so I can see(and hear) the difference.

Now you're saying it's fatally flawed?

WTF is wrong with you man?

You're acting like the PS5 is going through the RROD. How dare you fabricate a massive hardware issue that doesn't exist. You're just a fake gamer.

:messenger_winking_tongue:

Thanks for the entertainment btw.

Edit: Incase you didn't notice I'm just messing with you.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Looks like Sony reached out to DF to give them an early look at the TLOU2 60 fps patch. Alex also reported an issue directly to Sony Bend about the Days Gone PC port. Sony studios and DF seem to have a great relationship, and I really hope they do some post mortems with Insomniac going into detail about the tech in the game. I really dont want to wait till GDC to get some info on Ratchet and tbh, after years of speculation, I really want these devs to start going into detail about how their engines.

Something like the dev talk they did with Bluepoint would be very helpful to try and figure out just how the i/o and ssd compliment the PS5 GPU. I would also like to know how they are able to push so much traffic and skybox detail. Is it the new CPU thats letting them push it?
 

Dodkrake

Banned
Looks like Sony reached out to DF to give them an early look at the TLOU2 60 fps patch. Alex also reported an issue directly to Sony Bend about the Days Gone PC port. Sony studios and DF seem to have a great relationship, and I really hope they do some post mortems with Insomniac going into detail about the tech in the game. I really dont want to wait till GDC to get some info on Ratchet and tbh, after years of speculation, I really want these devs to start going into detail about how their engines.

Something like the dev talk they did with Bluepoint would be very helpful to try and figure out just how the i/o and ssd compliment the PS5 GPU. I would also like to know how they are able to push so much traffic and skybox detail. Is it the new CPU thats letting them push it?

This is super interesting, especially if you look at Alex's concerns and misconceptions around the SSD and Tom with his highly biased views.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
MS wanted to make a Gamepass machine that is as cheap as possible. That's the entire point of the XSS. I personally think it's a bit too expensive, but once it reaches $250 and lower, it's gonna be a no-brainer for many people. The PS5DE is great value for money, but the games are fucking expensive (up to 100 dollars in some countries).
That's an interesting point, but is Gamepass providing the quality to match $100 playstation games? And what's about Gamepass as an offering if it was compared to the quality/quantity of the ps collection, PS Plus game giveaways, and maybe Ps Now too ?

R&C is coming out next month, as is the update to FF7 remake. They gave me FF7 on PS, I've been admiring the quality of the game - never played any FF game before, 7 should really be called FF Solid Snake IMO to communicate to gamers you aren't 6 games behind - and so bought it on disc, and playing the game slowly waiting for the PS5 upgrade - so probably not buying R&C day1 :) - but if the upgrade wasn't coming, FF7 remake is still a fantastic AAA game from what I've played, that is possibly better than any game in the PS collection,- so the quality bar on gamepass alternative is very high on PS5 DE IMHO, is gamepass really better quality games than that?
 
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arvfab

Banned
I have no idea. When a developer has to go back and write a specific PS5 version just to utilize its features that is a disadvantage. How long will it take for Biomutant to get patched? 3 months? 6? By the time a PS5 version is complete most of the games biggest fans would have already moved on. They are essentially saying it will get better just wait till some new patch comes out at some uncertain date. That isn't a great thing.

Biggest fans would have already played the PS4 version, it's not like the game is not available or unplayable. Is it ideal? No.

After all that was said the XSS STILL produces a higher resolution image at 60fps with raytracing on games like RE8 than the X1X(which has more RAM!!) and higher resolution on Biomutant than the PS5 and X1X! Despite the complaints, despite the misinformation the XSS is still providing some pretty impressive outcomes and all that WITHOUT using some of the systems core features. I'll never know why people just can't accept that the XSS is a fantastic value that offers features more expensive consoles lack. It has to simply be console tribalism because at this point the XSS has proven itself at this point. More can be addressed if/when a REAL issue comes up.
And this is your typical hypocrisy. You are comparing the XSS with a PS4 game running on a PS5, praising it's performance WITHOUT using it's system core features, but can't acknowledge the same for the PS5.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is super interesting, especially if you look at Alex's concerns and misconceptions around the SSD and Tom with his highly biased views.
It's infuriating tbh. You have a direct line to devs Sony studios and you just use that to report some bugs instead of trying to get some of the more juicier details. I get that there might be NDAs but nothing is stopping them from going off the record.

They are reading the Patreon questions right now and it's funny because for the second week in a row someone has asked them about the PS5 SSD. This time about the file sizes being way smaller on the PS5. I wonder if its someone from this thread lol. I am now thinking of subscribing to their patreon just to ask questions we talk about here. If we keep asking them, they will have no choice but try and get some answers. I am willing to waste $5 to see if Ratchet is using primitive shaders. $10 to see if they can get some more devs criticize the series s. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
Demon Souls' dual sense implementation doesnt get talked about much, but one of the post release patches upped the speaker sound effects and haptics, and it really enhanced the combat imo. Swords clashing, and piercing armor all had different sounds and feels. Every weapon archetype felt different. I finished the game almost 15 times with every single class and then with pretty much every weapon archetype and aside from Astrobot, it really sold me on the dualsense features for traditional games.
Oh when was that update I havent played it since like December
 

assurdum

Banned
Hitman 3
  • 1800p vs 4k is = 36.0656% difference
  • Better framerate on the PS5
RE8
  • That's 1 section. Stop being selective. Mean frame rate across the board is... a whopping 1fps difference. Amazing
  • 500% faster load times on the PS5
  • Source
Outriders
  • They both run at upscaled 4k
  • Internal resolution yields is = 27.5902% difference
  • Better texture filtering on the PS5
  • Source

Funny how you then ignore THPS 1+2, Crash Bandicoot 4, post-update Mortal Shell. But as said, engines perform differently based on the platform engine, and you already derailed again my point about cross-gen vs gen aware. Congratulations.

And no, it doesn't "turn me on", you little creep.

Edit - Corrected an error, I meant engine and not platform.
1800p Vs 4k is 31%. Where you get 36,6%? Oh I see you make an average of both math proportions. But imo I think it's more correct start from the higher to the lower to calculate the proportion.
 
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I have had him on ignore since he first started leaving LOL emojis on every single post that dared to talk about MS in a negative light

aahh yes, what I call the "doncabesa special"

Looks like Sony reached out to DF to give them an early look at the TLOU2 60 fps patch. Alex also reported an issue directly to Sony Bend about the Days Gone PC port. Sony studios and DF seem to have a great relationship, and I really hope they do some post mortems with Insomniac going into detail about the tech in the game. I really dont want to wait till GDC to get some info on Ratchet and tbh, after years of speculation, I really want these devs to start going into detail about how their engines.

Something like the dev talk they did with Bluepoint would be very helpful to try and figure out just how the i/o and ssd compliment the PS5 GPU. I would also like to know how they are able to push so much traffic and skybox detail. Is it the new CPU thats letting them push it?

I do find some of DF's views fan boyish in nature and they should know better given their platform and it's purpose. I was fortunate enough to get my hands on a PS5 a few days ago and one of the first games I played was Spiderman Remastered, the Performance RT transformed the game into something special in my opinion, the responsiveness and fluidity of 60 FPS is very refreshing and ray traced reflections are very pleasant on the eyes. The reason I mention this anyway is because DF are 60 FPS junkies so hopefully they could encourage Sony studios to implement more 60 FPS options within games (especially with ray tracing), at least this way DF could finally be useful lol (I kid of course).
 

sircaw

Banned
aahh yes, what I call the "doncabesa special"



I do find some of DF's views fan boyish in nature and they should know better given their platform and it's purpose. I was fortunate enough to get my hands on a PS5 a few days ago and one of the first games I played was Spiderman Remastered, the Performance RT transformed the game into something special in my opinion, the responsiveness and fluidity of 60 FPS is very refreshing and ray traced reflections are very pleasant on the eyes. The reason I mention this anyway is because DF are 60 FPS junkies so hopefully they could encourage Sony studios to implement more 60 FPS options within games (especially with ray tracing), at least this way DF could finally be useful lol (I kid of course).
Is Doncabesa Doncabesa still around, not heard from him in ages, has he gone all incognito. "lollipop_disappointed:

Show yourself you dirty Dingo.
 
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I think the PS5 is a nice console with some serious shortcomings. Only time will tell how those shortcomings are addressed as time goes on.

WTF is XSS is then if PS5 has some serious shortcommings?

The drunk ones ignore PS5 issues.

LOL. Looks who is talking about ignoring issues, yet you ignore devs serious concerning about XSS for current-gen development.


You're drunk.

Yeah, he is messed up. Just like Xbox.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
lol I am not defending him. I have had him on ignore since he first started leaving LOL emojis on every single post that dared to talk about MS in a negative light.. It was bizarre and borderline sociopathic, and I was like Im too old for this shit and put him on ignore.

Glad to see you do the same which is what I was trying to say. It will just make the thread much better to browse going forward. There are certain users who derail every single thread, and the onus is on us to not fall for their derails, and putting those guys on ignore goes a long way towards fixing that.



Demon Souls' dual sense implementation doesnt get talked about much, but one of the post release patches upped the speaker sound effects and haptics, and it really enhanced the combat imo. Swords clashing, and piercing armor all had different sounds and feels. Every weapon archetype felt different. I finished the game almost 15 times with every single class and then with pretty much every weapon archetype and aside from Astrobot, it really sold me on the dualsense features for traditional games.

dang. 15 times!!!!

I haven’t played the game much since launch, haven’t checked out the dual sense improvements

should I do ng+ or try a different class?

i beat the game once as a mage so I kind of missed out on the sword/shield combat
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
dang. 15 times!!!!

I haven’t played the game much since launch, haven’t checked out the dual sense improvements

should I do ng+ or try a different class?

i beat the game once as a mage so I kind of missed out on the sword/shield combat
Probably best to do a NG run but if you do NG+ you should have all the boss souls and make their weapons which are by far the best weapons in the game. Leveling up in NG+ is much harder, but if you might be able to use your mage build to boost the damage of your weapons by using the light weapon spell. Most weapons should scale with that spell. Blueblood sword is my favorite, it scales with the luck stat but tbh, it was extremely OP for a straight sword even without putting many points into luck. One important tip is to make yourself a bow if you do a NG+ melee run. Otherwise, your mage spells should be fine for range combat.

One of my favorite Dualsense features is the speaker sound when you collect souls, like a delayed woosh as if your controller is absorbing the souls. it really makes you FEEL like a demon's soul. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
aahh yes, what I call the "doncabesa special"



I do find some of DF's views fan boyish in nature and they should know better given their platform and it's purpose. I was fortunate enough to get my hands on a PS5 a few days ago and one of the first games I played was Spiderman Remastered, the Performance RT transformed the game into something special in my opinion, the responsiveness and fluidity of 60 FPS is very refreshing and ray traced reflections are very pleasant on the eyes. The reason I mention this anyway is because DF are 60 FPS junkies so hopefully they could encourage Sony studios to implement more 60 FPS options within games (especially with ray tracing), at least this way DF could finally be useful lol (I kid of course).
Congrats!

As good as Spiderman Remastered looks, Miles looks even better. I'd highly recommend you try that next. They must have known about ray tracing way ahead of time because like every story mission in that game is set in rooms with reflections everywhere. Floors, windows, panels. It is easily the most impressive ray tracing showcase I have seen yet.

I am not a big fan of 60 fps coming at the expense of visuals, but I would be ok with what some Sony devs did on the PS4 pro. GoW and SoTC were 4k30 fps and 1440p 30 fps respectively, and they had a separate 60 fps mode at 1080p. I'd rather they do that then go for a native 4k 30 fps implementation and then give us a 1440p 60 fps game which is what Demon Souls and R&C seem to be doing. Returnal shows that you can take a 1080p base image and use TAA AND checkerboarding to get a clean image. That pixel budget for it should only be equivalent to a 4kcb 30 fps game so hopefully they stick to that going forward.
 

Markio128

Gold Member

It doesn’t feel safe in this thread 😂
 

The last geometry feature alone will make this generation of games look so much better, and for some, it will be the generational leap that they think they've been missing when the next-gen only games come around using this (or the same feature in a different game engine since the idea is not proprietary just the execution)

And with this feature, streaming geometry (NOT TEXTURES) will be a thing everyone will talk about when devs start using it.
 
Seriously wondering if Ratchet is doing some of this.

short1tzkmw.gif


The amount of detail in the environments reminds me of the UE5 demo. They could be streaming a ton of geometry/high quality assets on the fly.
I believe they did since the objects are each looking distinct enough not to be just a clever texture tessellation trick used. But the proof would be when we get our hands on the game and start closing in on some of these and then when right next to them zoom further in. Though the art direction is smooth, comic-like objects with simpler geometry compared to anything on UE5 demo, so I'm not sure if that would be a definite proof or disproof either way.
 

LucasBR

Member
Seriously wondering if Ratchet is doing some of this.

short1tzkmw.gif


The amount of detail in the environments reminds me of the UE5 demo. They could be streaming a ton of geometry/high quality assets on the fly.

Why are you so skeptical about this game? I do believe Insomniac will deliver something jaw-dropping and will be a glimpse on how powerful PS5 and its SSD are and can be.
 

3liteDragon

Member
Seriously wondering if Ratchet is doing some of this.

short1tzkmw.gif


The amount of detail in the environments reminds me of the UE5 demo. They could be streaming a ton of geometry/high quality assets on the fly.
Nah I don’t think it’s using the GE at all tbh, Spider-Man 2 will probably be the first game from Insomniac that uses primitive shaders and we’ll see the huge difference then.
 
You asked for a quote. You got exactly that.

I don't get why you even asked for one when you were always going to downplay it through sheer ignorance. Not using features (seriously?!) the guys a lead engine developer, I'm sure he knows what's available to him a little better than you.

Just say 'the developers are wrong' next time. Save yourself some time.

It's a very stupid take whether you write blocks of text or a single sentence.


You have a tendency to invent complete sentences which weren't said.
You didn't address any of my points. Those devs you quote were old and also didn't address any of my points. You can bring your old quotes and I can bring some logic and reasoning. You could save yourself some time and just say I personally don't like the XSS and stop right there. Why not simply explain to us why SFS and VA will not address the RAM issues you keep bringing up in your ancient quotes? You want to say the XSS is a problem for current gen gaming give us the break down.

Biggest fans would have already played the PS4 version, it's not like the game is not available or unplayable. Is it ideal? No.


And this is your typical hypocrisy. You are comparing the XSS with a PS4 game running on a PS5, praising it's performance WITHOUT using it's system core features, but can't acknowledge the same for the PS5.
I am comparing the game as it is on XSS, the 'bad' console, and PS5 the 'best' console according to some here. You act like the Xbox version has a special patch and the PS5 was neglected. There is nothing hypocritical about stating a fact. If the PS5 gets a specific patch in the future hopefully the game will run better. It just points out the weakness on how some games are handled on the PS5. Don't take it personally.

If you didn't, I'm sorry, but I believe I saw you argue for "victories" while discussing BC games. May be wrong, mea-culpa if that's the case.

As for BC, of course the times they trade blows is when a PS5 version is made. The way Sony and MS approached BC is completely different, with Sony's being basically the same approach the PS2 and PS3 had, and MS's being way more advanced. I've seen some videos from DF (titled accordingly for maximum console warring) where they test BC games and then claim the Series X version is superior to the PS5 version, when there is no PS5 version. That's objectively false, misleads the customer, and creates false poor awareness on a brand.

It's like me comparing an Xbox 360 game running on the Series X to the remastered version for PS5 and saying the later wins. It's asinine, it's false advertising, and misleads the audience. Yes the GDK/XDK are better for porting, and they allow for way more flexibility, and that's cool. But devs not being arsed to unlock the same features on Sony consoles because there's more work compiling the game on a different SDK is... well... Not Sony's fault. Kudos to MS for making it possible, though.

As for Smart Delivery, are you aware the PS5 does the same? When I install a game, if 2 gens are available, it allows me to pick which version to install. Both of them do the exact same.


Big thumbs up to this.
There is a lot to unpack here so let's see how to address this. I don' t know about victories but there have been several cases of games performing quite well on the XSS, a much maligned system here. Whenever the XSS runs at a lower resolution or has a hiccup it is proclaimed that it has 'ruined' this generation. When it has more games running at 120fps than the PS5 special conditions are created to make the PS5 look good instead of just admitting that the XSS is doing good work. There is a bit of an odd double standard. Again the XSS wasn't expected to do ANYTHING better than the PS5. Some compared it to the Switch after all.

Your comment about console warring DF video sounds like you are taking those videos too personally. Please give an example of an "objectively false, misleads the customer, and creates false poor awareness on a brand." from DF. Look at this statement "test BC games and then claim the Series X version is superior to the PS5 version, when there is no PS5 version. ' There isn't an Series version of the game either though right? I could see your point if the Xbox version was tailor-made and the PS5 version was not but that isn't the case. So if DF says the game runs better on XSX that may objectively be true. That's why I said that calling it BC oversimplifies it because PS5 is also doing BC. Would you say they are doing the same thing? The XSX|S isn't running the games like the X1 so its much more than BC.

Your comment "It's like me comparing an Xbox 360 game running on the Series X to the remastered version for PS5 and saying the later wins. It's asinine, it's false advertising, and misleads the audience." is pretty amazing though. Comparing the X360 game running on the XSX vs a completely new version running on the PS5 is exactly OPPOSITE of what is happening though. The XSX|S and PS5 are running the SAME game, like Biomutant for example and getting different outcomes. There is no special remaster and in many cases the developers aren't needed to get the improvements. You see this with FPS boost too, no dev involvement.

Saying " Yes the GDK/XDK are better for porting, and they allow for way more flexibility, and that's cool. But devs not being arsed to unlock the same features on Sony consoles because there's more work compiling the game on a different SDK is... well... Not Sony's fault. Kudos to MS for making it possible, though." is funny because it IS Sony 'fault'. Just like it's MS 'fault' for releasing the XSS and hurting the current generation right? It is asking devs to do extra work to get performance out of the system. Platform holders should be making game development easier. That's why it's on MS to ensure that the XSX|S's features are easy to utilize. The one point I will concede is that if the Xbox didn't exist PS5's way would be the best way of handling this whole thing. Sadly there has been proven to be a better way and MS has shown that. Sony should adopt these things.

Finally "As for Smart Delivery, are you aware the PS5 does the same? When I install a game, if 2 gens are available, it allows me to pick which version to install. Both of them do the exact same.' This has not been my experience. Multiple games that have a specific PS5 version tend to NOT have saves that cross both versions. From the systems perspective they are different games. This again shows how MS was quite thoughtful with how they handled games in general across their platform. When I downloaded Destiny 2 I got both the PS4 and PS5 versions. I had to stop downloading one and erase it. Games like Spiderman had to be patched to support their old saves. It just shows Sony didn't think about these things much because I don't think compatibility was something they were concerned about. That makes sense because Sony philosophy has always been for you to get a new box and get rid of the old. MS wanted to blend generations and like I said before that has not turned out too badly for them, or developers who don't want to go back to patch games to take advantage of the new hardware.
 
Well this took all of 5 seconds to find.



I wonder how you are going to strawman this.
Don't worry, he will, it's called cognitive dissonance :)

"Cognitive dissonance refers to a situation involving conflicting attitudes, beliefs or behaviors. This produces a feeling of mental discomfort leading to an alteration in one of the attitudes, beliefs or behaviors to reduce the discomfort and restore balance."

Really cool article to read here :)

cognitive dissonance experiments

I love the results on the forced compliance study that had people putting round pegs into holes for 1h in a mind numbing boring task. They are then paid different sums of money to tell the next participant how fun the task was.

"Results

When the participants were asked to evaluate the experiment, the participants who were paid only $1 rated the tedious task as more fun and enjoyable than the participants who were paid $20 to lie.

Conclusion

Being paid only $1 is not sufficient incentive for lying and so those who were paid $1 experienced dissonance. They could only overcome that dissonance by coming to believe that the tasks really were interesting and enjoyable. Being paid $20 provides a reason for turning pegs, and there is therefore no dissonance."
 
Appeal to authority is not an argument :messenger_winking: I even gave you an example with Doom Eternal.
Appeal to authority fallacy is when you appeal to someone that's an expert "authority" in a given field and transpose that to a completely different one. A silly but understandable example would be finding a quote of Einstein saying how vaccines cause autism (fake example ok?) and use it to support that narrative. So yeah, while Einstein was a genius level intellect when it comes to physics, he's not a biologist and his comments on the efficacy of vaccines hold no authority in a discussion.

You're welcome :messenger_winking:
 
Appeal to authority fallacy is when you appeal to someone that's an expert "authority" in a given field and transpose that to a completely different one. A silly but understandable example would be finding a quote of Einstein saying how vaccines cause autism (fake example ok?) and use it to support that narrative. So yeah, while Einstein was a genius level intellect when it comes to physics, he's not a biologist and his comments on the efficacy of vaccines hold no authority in a discussion.

You're welcome :messenger_winking:

Some say that Einstein had autism. And if Vaccines cause autism then the Covid vaccine can make people as smart as Einstein by giving them autism.

:messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

dcmk7

Banned
You didn't address any of my points. Those devs you quote were old and also didn't address any of my points. You can bring your old quotes and I can bring some logic and reasoning. You could save yourself some time and just say I personally don't like the XSS and stop right there. Why not simply explain to us why SFS and VA will not address the RAM issues you keep bringing up in your ancient quotes? You want to say the XSS is a problem for current gen gaming give us the break down.
The quotes are less than a year old.. You asked for a quote, you didn't specify ANY time limitations. Putting a time limit on quote is weird as hell though.. almost as if you are attempting a strawman here.

But, I did see your post. I saw you dismissing his comments by very ignorantly and rudely saying the lead engine developer doesn't understand the new features he can use, therefore you weren't going to take his comments seriously. It might be difficult to believe but he knows faaaar more about game development then you.

But it's ok, I understand you're massively into the XSS, and you don't want to see its name besmirched. I sort of get it.

But I think you need to see it's performance dispassionately. It's not doing a good enough job at the moment. I mean explain why 570p resolutions at a very unsteady 120fps, in 2021, is good enough? It shouldn't be.

XSS doesn't even seem like it can run cross gen titles without it being heavily compromised, I mean 45fps (what the hell is that.. innovation?), 900p without raytracing, and a tiny harddrive can barely fit CoD on. Isn't good enough.

So like it or not, the PS5DE is the entry point, on price, for next gen consoles which can run titles without any caveats.

It's fully future-proofed up as well, runs 120hz better. 4k gaming. Quicker loading, more immersive controller, and a lot more hard-drive space to boot. All that, for only £100 extra.

I don't think you would be able to find a console which can run games at the performance of PS5DE for less.

It's no wonder they are all sold out whilst XSS are readily available here.

I'm sure you would begrudgingly agree to that, when you think about it without brand allegiance involved.
 
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