Kazekage1981
Member
what does dual 36 CU mean? Will it have 36 compute units? Or 36 x 2 = 72 Compute Units For the latest PS5 leak?
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Kazekage1981
Member
I am speculating the following for PS5:
36 compute units @ 2 Ghz for backwards compatibility mode with boost in graphics for PS4 games (possibly PS3-PS1) such as: Checkerboard 4K to Native 4K
36 compute units plus activation of additional 36 units to play PS5 games.
36 compute units @ 2 Ghz for backwards compatibility mode with boost in graphics for PS4 games (possibly PS3-PS1) such as: Checkerboard 4K to Native 4K
36 compute units plus activation of additional 36 units to play PS5 games.
RaySoft
Member
See you in february
Reindeer
Member
It's not happening, don't even entertain that idea that's born out of desperation and fantasy of some of the people here.
Reindeer
Member
Well, can't argue with that logic...
Nickolaidas
Member
That ... doesn't sound like a console slightly more powerful than the series x. It sounds like a fucking power plant.
Though truth be told, the V design of the dev kit does entertain that speculation.
36cu's on each side. But it's bull.
I'm not sure how they managed to pull it off but they have successfully stuffed the Era moderation team with Xbox Ambassadors. After one is promoted they start nominating and recommending their friends to the moderation team I suppose.
Ghostcrew for the record is not an Xbox Ambassador but his promotion remains a puzzle to many because he was notorious for anti-Sony baiting and had numerous infractions to his name. Then one month he suddenly starts acting overtly pro Sony. A few of us joked that his account had been hijacked because it was most unusual behaviour. The reason became clear after he was promoted to the moderation team. His buddies must have nominated him and so he adopted an overt stance of neutrality while privately he issues warnings and bans to PlayStation enthusiastic forum members, all the time ignoring similar infractions on the other side.
Era is just a pretence. More and more people are beginning to see it.
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Kazekage1981
Member
Navi 10 is 251mm². Navi 14 is 158mm².
The additional 93mm² gets you 16CUs, 128bit memory bus, 32 rops and 8 pcie 4 lanes and an extra compute engine.
Drop those 8 pcie lanes and 32 rops and you could get a 60CU, 64 rop, 384bit, 3CE config in 344mm². This GPU would have around 14.1B transistors so add in 5% of the total for RT and you are at 14.8B transistors for a total die size on N7 of 361mm².
Zen2 has around 3.9B but is more dense because a lot of it is l3 cache. So has 52 transistors per mm². It seems Renoir is going from 32MB l3 per 8 cores to 8MB and I suspect the same is true for the consoles as the extra L3 on zen2 is to help mitigate the latency from the IO die. Since the memory controller is on die for the console SoCs not as much is needed. It would mean the die size for the CPU in the SoC is around 40mm² in N7.
That puts the total APU size to 401mm² on plain old N7 without any layout optimisation. It also means the CPU portion will use around 2.1B transistors (estimated using 41M trans / mm² for the logic giving around 1.5B transistors for zen2 cores and 2.4B for the cache which I divided by 4 for the APU).
That totals around 17.2B transistors for the entire SoC in 401mm² giving a density of 43M trans/mm².
N7+ has a 15%-20% increase in transistor density over N7 meaning that this SoC on that node would be around 50M trans/mm² and a die size of approx 344mm².
This would fit with last gen and would work with a $499 price point IMO. It also seems like the best use of the currently available tech to balance power consumption, memory amount and peak performance Vs other designs like 36CUs at a stupidly high clockspeed.
The other thing is how do we know that Ariel and oberon are PS5 and not something for Apple? It is not like Sony and MS are AMDs only semi custom clients.
Reindeer
Member
Apple do not do BC with PS4 and PS4 Pro.
Good point.
Reindeer
Member
Plus both ram and ssd are set to go up in price, unless of course they already had set price.
Reindeer
Member
Why do you people do this to yourselves?
72 is absolutely not possible...
Sorry to quote this again but if 316mm² is correct for PS5 and it has the same zen2 with 8MB l3 then it means that the GPU portion is around 13.6B transistors which is 30% larger than Navi 10. Seems unlikely that that none of those transistors are used for additional CUs with that much space to play with.
OTOH a 36CU design with the same extra 5% of GPU transistors added for RT gives a SoC size of around 260mm² on N7+. That would give Sony a pricing advantage but I really doubt that you can clock a 36CU design to 2GHz in a console power and thermal envelope.
Classicrockfan
Banned
So is Sony February show a sure thing or just speculation?
7nm EUV isn't happening. It's mostly taken by high margin products.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Speculation but corroborated by few so called insiders.
I would not say that. It is just not possible in a console launching at the end of 2020.
All that , and more, was implied
FranXico
Member
And history with PS4 reveal.
saintjules
Gold Member
Speculation for right now. Possible it's Feb. based on 'Insider' info.
AMD have finished designing zen3 on N7+ and are building RDNA2 on N7+. They are experienced with the design libraries Sony/MS can leverage that experience.
Besides N7+ already has the same yields as N7 and it is being used for some mobile SoCs like the Kirin 990 5g.
With zen3 on N7+ it is not going to be limited production.
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for consoles ...You just named bunch of high margin products. Consoles ain't one.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I think developers have become so good with rendering light, that the biggest benefit of raytracing is that it's much easier to use than creating baked lighting solutions so it'll save time
Holy shit it's next week. I though it was late Feb.
This is the gift that never stops giving. (there better be news...)
Im gonna give you a hintpatents
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Yep, for PS5 there's Ariel, Oberon, Gonzalo and Prospero. Has anyone seen any numbers for Prospero?
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Zen3 is not high margin in all products. Sure the ones used in Milan will be but the desktop parts will range from high to low margin.
RDNA2 also won't be high margin in all products.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
If we look at the shader processors in nvidia cards, the rtx 2080 only has 46 cu worth of shader processors. Or 2,944.
It typically runs at 1.95ghz on stock clocks. That's an 11.4 tflops gpu. If Sony is indeed going with 40 cu gpu at 2?0 ghz, i dont see why they can't invest an additional 20-25mm2 for 10 additional cus at 1.95 ghz.
A 1/4 cache zen 2 should be 40 mm2. Rt is likely 15 mm2. I/o and bus should be around 20 mm2. 40 cu 5700 is 251mm2 but it should have some pc specific hardware not needed for consoles. You can save 20mm2 there and use it for 8 extra cus. That brings us to 325mm2 on n7.
N7p is around 7% smaller or more power efficient. That's your 300 mm2 46 cu gpu at 2.0 ghz. 11.7 tflops.
It typically runs at 1.95ghz on stock clocks. That's an 11.4 tflops gpu. If Sony is indeed going with 40 cu gpu at 2?0 ghz, i dont see why they can't invest an additional 20-25mm2 for 10 additional cus at 1.95 ghz.
A 1/4 cache zen 2 should be 40 mm2. Rt is likely 15 mm2. I/o and bus should be around 20 mm2. 40 cu 5700 is 251mm2 but it should have some pc specific hardware not needed for consoles. You can save 20mm2 there and use it for 8 extra cus. That brings us to 325mm2 on n7.
N7p is around 7% smaller or more power efficient. That's your 300 mm2 46 cu gpu at 2.0 ghz. 11.7 tflops.
Mostly high margin. High end mobile chips, server CPUs, larger navi GPUs, desktop CPUs.
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Desktop will be the biggest seller so the majority of zen3 chips sold will be in whatever replaces the 3600.
TeamGhobad
Banned
we're at 96 ROPs, had 64 yesterday. which gives more credence they don't know anything.
Disco_
Member
Let's also keep in mind nvidia and amd market their Tfs differently. AMD uses max theoretical boost in their specs while NVIDIA usually uses base clock. What we end up with is AMD cards that almost never reach said Tf rating and NVIDIA cards that are almost always way above it.
I've ventured outside the next gen thread a couple times. Will never do it again. It's scary.
Disco_
Member
Prospero is the dev kit name. Gonzalo is the APU. Arden/ariel are GPU.
I don't see 2GHz being possible in a console thermal and power envelope.
chemical boy
Member
My forecast for PS5 is 12-14 tflops, presentation in February, teaser at CES.
Disco_
Member
Ariel/oberon are gpu. not arden, that's xsx.
Can't edit my post. Fixing mistake here.
TeamGhobad
Banned
Do you guys think XSX or Lockhart will sell more?
You are basically explaining why 7nm+ isn't happening. AMD will be moving to 7nm+ to manufacture their new product lineups. Consoles need mature node with high production output - 7N/7NP
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xPikYx
Member
It's just a feeling, all the recent Sony's declarations (8k, we want to do a premium product, we need to change, zero loading times, and so on) make me think we are about to see something really unexpected and wow
N7+ had the same yield as N7 after 2 quarters. Products built on N7+ are shipping to consumers and it is being used to manufacture mobile SoCs and will have plenty of capacity for consoles.
It is already a mature production ready node.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Yeah but what if Gonzalo and the others are from a scrapped or old design and Prospero has the real numbers? Also didn't Apisak say that AMD were posting incorrect information to throw people off?
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