Storm Kyleis
Member
Also, voice chat is essential with friends and terrible with random people. It should be a feature in private lobbies.
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Nintendo has the three best online games this gen, but with the worst online features
- Thread starter Forkball
- Start date
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
But neither of these points excuse the absence of features many consider a standard. Nintendo isn't reinventing anything here, and being slow and behind still makes them slow and behind.
Anyway, I don't do a lot of online gaming on consoles, but can appreciate the frustration people have with missing standards. I think for me the biggest concern with the Wii U and online is its fairly abysmal market penetration in Australia and what that means for latency and online heavy games. I'm going to grab Splatoon, but I'm a bit worried as to how many people in Australia are regularly playing it, because I don't want to play internationally.
Everyone need to start somewhere just like indies. Better later than never.
And don't start with me with the voice chat feature specialy with randoms.
ebullientprism
Member
Settings -> Online -> Mute all.
Hell Mute all by default if Nintendo is terrified of people hearing strangers voices.
This isnt rocket science. Almost every modern online game has this option. Stop trying to make excuses for Nintendo.
Its bizarre how fanboys will try to spin negatives into positives.
The OP literally starts with people being free to disagree and that the topic is about the divide between great game play and poor online features.
Complaining about not agreeing with just that element seems a bit fruitless.
Yeah if they want their cake and eat it they need to have it in friendlies. The director's choice in removing VC is only vindicated if that happens. Hopefully they'll take feedback to heart - I imagine lobbies isn't the only thing due in that update.
Captain_Spanky
Member
Actually in this case I think there is something wrong with options. If you have the option of using it the people that can put up with the abuse/swearing/screechy children/irritating music played through a mic/screaming/singing/conversations with parents have a tactical advantage, whereas those who enjoy peace and quiet do not. This way everyone is on an even footing in that regard.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Nintendo and Nintendo apologists depress me. Not much else to say that hasn't already been said. Just counting the years until Nintendo catches up, and hopefully it'll be in my lifetime.
It should be an option as standard - there are people in the world who won't shout abuse down the microphone at you. There are people who want to co-operate as a team and communicate effectively.
Just include a handy "mute player" button on the touch pad, or disable voice as default and ask the player if they want to turn it on at the start of the match.
Not having it shouldn't be applauded at all.
Turf wars is the 'play for fun' mode, level means very little in terms of skill as you can get level 20 by always loosing if you just play a lot.
Weapons you get at the beginning are as solid as the ones you get at higher level.
The only marginal advantage is gear where higher level characters can have more secondary stats on their gear, but it is almost a non issue with players constantly rotating teams between matches, so if you face what you feel is an OP player he may be on your team in the next round.
Ranked has matchmaking and it seems to work quite well.
You just made me realize that Nintendo literally has the best controller in the world for instantly muting someone and isn't using it.
Congrats on missing the entire point of the thread.
OP should've said "three of the best" instead to avoid idiotic replies like these.
KazenY2J
Member
Thank goodness you didn't see that huge thread about this voice chat debacle.
Sakura
Member
I am going to have to respectively disagree with you on the lack of voice chat.
-The vast majority of the games I play, most of my team, or at least half of the players, are Japanese. I don't see much benefit in voice chat when the other players wouldn't understand you or vice versa.
-I understand the argument about wanting to warn your team mates about this or that. But the other team doesn't have voice chat either, so you aren't at any disadvantage by being unable to talk to your team. If anything, it levels the playing field a bit. Imagine you were on a team that didn't/couldn't talk, while the other team could. Would give them a bit of an edge.
-The game is so fast and hectic, there is only so much communication you would be able to do anyway. In a game like Counter Strike? Yea, communication is a must. In Splat Zones when you are in constant firefights, ink is flying every where, and an entire game may be over in 100 seconds, then I really don't know what kind of voice chat you'd be having. I certainly wouldn't have the time to strategise or call out to specific players. It'd most likely just be angry kids yelling, which I'd not be interested in hearing.
Matchmaking takes place in ranked games. Casual games don't really have matchmaking because it is casual. Skill matters far more than level. Even as a level 6 player it is not difficult to take out a level 19 player.
Some other things you mentioned I believe they are adding.
I agree stats would be cool.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Level isn't really an indicator of skill because it just means that character has been used enough to earn enough points to reach that level. Could be mostly 200 point games lol
Sticky&Sweet
Banned
It has been over a decade since console online gaming has been established as a standard, I have little faith in Nintendo in this regard.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
How could I miss it? Almost had to be hospitalized..
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
They've yet to release a single game with anywhere near the online functionality and features of Halo 2, an 11-year-old game that's features have been standard elsewhere for the last decade. Splatoon launched without friends lobbies and most games (Splatoon included) still have limited to non-existent voice chat, even with friends, even after they themselves first supported it 9 years ago. Many of their games have bizarre restrictions on features when playing online, such as highly limited selections of modes, whereas most local+online multiplayer games have identical suites for both.
While I suppose technically they're making advances (matchmaking isn't as painfully slow and games aren't as laggy as they were in the past, and Smash and Kart sort of have voice chat now), they're so glacial that I don't see how you could have that impression. Especially as the competition continues to expand faster. Where once they were 2 years behind the competition in 2006, they're now 11 years behind.
I think Splatoon's online makes huge leaps forward while going two steps back on features Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros already successfully implemented.
Joining a friend's game is a matter of luck right now. I understand they will eventually patch in queuing up as teams with a friends, but why is it that I can only join a friends' game at the point where the lobby is full or almost filled? I don't have infinite free time and it's frustrating having to wait almost always at least one full match at best if you want to play with a friend.
Why is it impossible to switch weapons or equipment while being with other players? It's even more tedious if your friend or you are feeling experimental and you have to go through the whole process again just because they or you want to try out some different equipment.
Using the voice commands right now is kinda backwards too. If you use it, your teammates will eventually start using it too, but right now the "To Me!" and the "Nice!" thing kinda leave a lot to be desired for communication. I know Nintendo doesn't want any negative stuff so people don't feel frustrated, but being able to say "Sorry" or a "I can't do that" if, for example what happened today, a teammate is requesting people to come into a zone that where he doesn't really need any help would be nice to have at minimum.
Especially looking torwards the August update, unless they introduce a special playlist where you can play with people that queue up with friends, it's gonna be frustrating to play against a group of people who communicate through some service while you are only left with your two voice command options. I am not for voice chat because having played a lot of Peace Walker on the PS3, I feel like voice commands are great to bridge over the language barrier and are a great replacement for actual voice chat, but with only those two options it's very hard to cooperate much and that will definitely hurt regular battles once you are stuck playing against teams that can communicate freely over Skype and other services while playing together.
Joining a friend's game is a matter of luck right now. I understand they will eventually patch in queuing up as teams with a friends, but why is it that I can only join a friends' game at the point where the lobby is full or almost filled? I don't have infinite free time and it's frustrating having to wait almost always at least one full match at best if you want to play with a friend.
Why is it impossible to switch weapons or equipment while being with other players? It's even more tedious if your friend or you are feeling experimental and you have to go through the whole process again just because they or you want to try out some different equipment.
Using the voice commands right now is kinda backwards too. If you use it, your teammates will eventually start using it too, but right now the "To Me!" and the "Nice!" thing kinda leave a lot to be desired for communication. I know Nintendo doesn't want any negative stuff so people don't feel frustrated, but being able to say "Sorry" or a "I can't do that" if, for example what happened today, a teammate is requesting people to come into a zone that where he doesn't really need any help would be nice to have at minimum.
Especially looking torwards the August update, unless they introduce a special playlist where you can play with people that queue up with friends, it's gonna be frustrating to play against a group of people who communicate through some service while you are only left with your two voice command options. I am not for voice chat because having played a lot of Peace Walker on the PS3, I feel like voice commands are great to bridge over the language barrier and are a great replacement for actual voice chat, but with only those two options it's very hard to cooperate much and that will definitely hurt regular battles once you are stuck playing against teams that can communicate freely over Skype and other services while playing together.
I've said before that Splatoon should have voice chat as an option but it dawned on me when the game came out it would be worthless since half the team doesn't speak my language.
Nintendo though still needs to improve the ping/macro chat system to the same degree of Planetside.
Nintendo though still needs to improve the ping/macro chat system to the same degree of Planetside.
woopWOOP
Member
A lot of these complains are pretty valid.
No stock-mode in online Smash is probably to keep players (trolls) from not doing anything after they kill you. It's already bad enough that there's 80% chance my For Fun match will be full of players dicking around without throwing a punch. Atleast now it'll be over within 2 minutes instead of having to disconnect and having to wait 10 minutes because I disconnected midmatch.
As for Splatoon: Voicechat wouldn't work (with randoms) because you connect to players from around the world. Shouting orders to other players will most likely have Japanese/German players tell me they don't understand/shut the hell up. A better ping system would be key. Tap locations to tell other people something of importance is happening down where. Maybe even be able to draw arrows and stuff, tho in that case people would just end up drawing dicks 95% of the time.
The map rotation is probably so you can select what loadout best works for you on these maps before you jump in. It's pretty annoying/clumsy that you can't change loadouts between matches, but I guess that's done to decrease the wait time between matches. MK8 can take longer than a minute between matches, Splatoon is like 20 seconds at most (hardly have time to even post here between matches).
No stock-mode in online Smash is probably to keep players (trolls) from not doing anything after they kill you. It's already bad enough that there's 80% chance my For Fun match will be full of players dicking around without throwing a punch. Atleast now it'll be over within 2 minutes instead of having to disconnect and having to wait 10 minutes because I disconnected midmatch.
As for Splatoon: Voicechat wouldn't work (with randoms) because you connect to players from around the world. Shouting orders to other players will most likely have Japanese/German players tell me they don't understand/shut the hell up. A better ping system would be key. Tap locations to tell other people something of importance is happening down where. Maybe even be able to draw arrows and stuff, tho in that case people would just end up drawing dicks 95% of the time.
The map rotation is probably so you can select what loadout best works for you on these maps before you jump in. It's pretty annoying/clumsy that you can't change loadouts between matches, but I guess that's done to decrease the wait time between matches. MK8 can take longer than a minute between matches, Splatoon is like 20 seconds at most (hardly have time to even post here between matches).
Everyone need to start somewhere just like indies. Better later than never.
And don't start with me with the voice chat feature specialy with randoms.
So Nintendo's philosophy should be "let's not keep up with the time because of the kid yelling into his mic".
Aight
It's an interesting development to be sure.
Nintendo's implementation of online multiplayer in these games is definitely simplistic but they've spent the time in crafting fun, high quality games first and foremost, so even if (IF) the online is a relative afterthought, that underlying high level of game quality is apparently enough to elevate the experience above what it sounds like it should be 'on paper' into being something special. I've not yet played Splatoon, but in the cases of MK8 and Smash Bros Wii U, that's the feeling I've gotten when playing them.
To give a (somewhat flawed) example here from my perspective at least: I've only really played two racing games this console gen: Forza 5 and MK8. MK8's online feature set is lacking in many ways but actually playing the game online is a tremendously fun experience despite this, whereas Forza 5 has all the online features you could possibly ask for and then some but the underlying experience is still hollow and boring even with that. I know those are two very different kinds of racers, yes, but I feel it illustrates my point well enough. Plus I don't really have anything I can compare with Smash Bros this gen, so I worked with what I had :/
tl, dr: Fantastic game with basic functional online will always be better than boring game stuffed with online features.
Would more robust online implementation be welcome in Nintendo games? Of course, fucking hell of course it would! But it doesn't have to be the be all and end all. Plus... y'know... having free online is a big help for the Nintendo games as well.
Nintendo's implementation of online multiplayer in these games is definitely simplistic but they've spent the time in crafting fun, high quality games first and foremost, so even if (IF) the online is a relative afterthought, that underlying high level of game quality is apparently enough to elevate the experience above what it sounds like it should be 'on paper' into being something special. I've not yet played Splatoon, but in the cases of MK8 and Smash Bros Wii U, that's the feeling I've gotten when playing them.
To give a (somewhat flawed) example here from my perspective at least: I've only really played two racing games this console gen: Forza 5 and MK8. MK8's online feature set is lacking in many ways but actually playing the game online is a tremendously fun experience despite this, whereas Forza 5 has all the online features you could possibly ask for and then some but the underlying experience is still hollow and boring even with that. I know those are two very different kinds of racers, yes, but I feel it illustrates my point well enough. Plus I don't really have anything I can compare with Smash Bros this gen, so I worked with what I had :/
tl, dr: Fantastic game with basic functional online will always be better than boring game stuffed with online features.
Would more robust online implementation be welcome in Nintendo games? Of course, fucking hell of course it would! But it doesn't have to be the be all and end all. Plus... y'know... having free online is a big help for the Nintendo games as well.
timetokill
Banned
I can't say I miss voice chat in Splatoon. When I play it's like 80% Japanese players so it wouldn't do much for me. any additional lag from voice transmission wouldn't be worth it to me.
I do think that they should add more communication features to the touch screen and D-Pad to help coordinate.
That said. they should absolutely have voice chat in friend lobbies/games.
I do think that they should add more communication features to the touch screen and D-Pad to help coordinate.
That said. they should absolutely have voice chat in friend lobbies/games.
I was going to make a thread, but figured I might as well try asking in here first:
What does Nintendo need to have a modern online infrastructure?
Honest question from somebody who's never paid for PSN or Xbox Live and hardly ever plays online. I see it mentioned a lot that Nintendo needs to get with the times with their online infrastructure, but beyond embracing voice chat, I'm not clear on what that exactly means. Could somebody clarify?
What does Nintendo need to have a modern online infrastructure?
Honest question from somebody who's never paid for PSN or Xbox Live and hardly ever plays online. I see it mentioned a lot that Nintendo needs to get with the times with their online infrastructure, but beyond embracing voice chat, I'm not clear on what that exactly means. Could somebody clarify?
Here For The Free Feed
Member
its not impossible to add racers on mario kart
home>friend list>player history
home>friend list>player history
woopWOOP
Member
So THAT's how random people kept adding me!its not impossible to add racers on mario kart
home>friend list>player history
Mindblown
Here For The Free Feed
Member
haha, i figure this works for all players you encounter during online games also, not just mario kart.
it also displays both nnid & in game name.
Shotgun Kiss
Member
Anybody who defends the lack of voicechat as if it's a good thing is an idiot. Voicechat is an option. Therefore it's inclusion is objectively a good thing, as it adds to the experience without taking anything away. Don't like it? Switch it off. Like it? Great; you can now enjoy the game more.
Maybe you don't have friends online you can talk to, but some of us do. And while randoms may sometimes be dicks/kids, I've played 360 games online for years, and met plenty of people I was happy to talk to and add as friends.
Not to mention that there are Private lobbies, where you can choose who you play with.
Maybe you don't have friends online you can talk to, but some of us do. And while randoms may sometimes be dicks/kids, I've played 360 games online for years, and met plenty of people I was happy to talk to and add as friends.
Not to mention that there are Private lobbies, where you can choose who you play with.
The12thGripper
Member
There are more of them, 3 of them in fact. They're all locked behind amiibo though.
Seth Enosh
Member
There are no private lobbies in Splatoon till August.
Voice chat in the game would be mostly pointless right now for game purposes since even if you join on a friend, they may be placed in to the enemy team 50% of the time. Randoms are from all over the world and voice chat would be worse than useless with them.
That said I have actually played with one friend while talking on skype to taunt him when I kill him and that is something that could be worth it. Wii U really just needs a system wide party chat.
Edit: also if voice chat with randoms really did give an advantage in this game, then everyone would have to opt in in Ranked mode. Muting your team mates would be a competitive disadvantage and keep you from A-ranking. So it wouldn't be simply optional or an easy choice to "mute all".
I guess most people don't know because they are so used to the terrible and broken PS3 player "history", which simply doesn't work at all for most games.
Interceptor
Banned
Starwolf_UK
Member
My problem is lag. I've got a wired connection but if everyone else is Australian playing on wireless it isn't doing much good.
As far as lag goes I'll accept the various time delay problems of KO'd opponent in Splatoon not dying, then their corpse killing me or hitting someone with an item in Mario Kart and them not flinching.
But what I really hate is when lag starts to directly affect me such as the item wheel in Mairo Kart taking 3 times as long to pick me an item in which time I've been pummeled by a shell I should have been able to block or in Splatoon where the paint refuses to stick to the floor leaving me as a sitting duck or in the case of splat zones giving the enemy more control of a zone than they should have, I have even seen the game come to an end and the paint update to show yep, our team had the zone but the games over now total knockout 0 points for your 4 minutes match. Maybe in splat zones game sync is more important but it just makes it all the more frustrating especially as there is more on the line (potentially ranking down and wasting your time earning no money).
I hear Splatoon is quite the monstrous consumer of upstream bandwidth judging by anecdotal reports of people not being able to watch youtube while playing and the like.
As far as lag goes I'll accept the various time delay problems of KO'd opponent in Splatoon not dying, then their corpse killing me or hitting someone with an item in Mario Kart and them not flinching.
But what I really hate is when lag starts to directly affect me such as the item wheel in Mairo Kart taking 3 times as long to pick me an item in which time I've been pummeled by a shell I should have been able to block or in Splatoon where the paint refuses to stick to the floor leaving me as a sitting duck or in the case of splat zones giving the enemy more control of a zone than they should have, I have even seen the game come to an end and the paint update to show yep, our team had the zone but the games over now total knockout 0 points for your 4 minutes match. Maybe in splat zones game sync is more important but it just makes it all the more frustrating especially as there is more on the line (potentially ranking down and wasting your time earning no money).
I hear Splatoon is quite the monstrous consumer of upstream bandwidth judging by anecdotal reports of people not being able to watch youtube while playing and the like.
Sometimes it will throw you into a room whose game has just started and a timer for the match will appear (usually the 2:50 mark) then it will be another 20 seconds of announcing results. I've started using a 3DS for these situations.
You tell me, is it on par?
What are Omega stages? Wide Final Destination, Thin Final Destination, Star Fox only final destination etc. Competitive smash is more than fox only final destination NEXT time on Dragon Ball Z. It is why many players are hoping for say, Gamma stages which are battlefield style.
If you were PAL you wouldn't because Nintendo considers Australia part of Europe making the mode potentially far worse than global.
When this happens you can back out. I'm sorry to hear you have lag, I play wirelessly at the same time my housemate plays on his Wii U and had noticeable lag maybe two times and that was on launch night.
I will defend its omission for random matches. it gives an unfair disadvantage to the people that don't want to use it or be bothered by it. however it should be a feature in private lobbies.
evilromero
Member
What does this mean? From the get-go? TPC didn't even exist as more than just a toy store until 2000.
Seth Enosh
Member
Yeah it's going to be pretty weird if the 8 person custom lobbies in August don't have this feature, how will people discuss the map and mode to play without it? Nintendo hasn't really said one way or another but they'd need a much better communication system if it's going to be similar to smash and all the rules will be modifiable in custom lobbies.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm not expecting it. so far Nintendo hasn't had voice chat during games, lobbies only. although even just having it in lobbies would be nice and better than nothing. at least that way you could give quick strategies before a match starts.
MarkMclovin
Member
Splatoon begs for voice chat, moreso than most online shooters. So many times, I've had to pull back to base to recover what 1 single person managed to grab. It gets pretty frustrating. Don't players look at their fucking screens?
Also, can't have a 2nd person play online with me? Even though I have a seperate fucking screen?
What year is this?
Also, can't have a 2nd person play online with me? Even though I have a seperate fucking screen?
What year is this?
Seth Enosh
Member
Voice chat been players with the same language may give a competitive advantage. If someone doesn't want voice chat and also wants to be on a even playing field with everyone else in the game, it makes sense to be happy no one has it. Muting doesn't solve this as you can no longer communicate with your team when muted.
Think about the bolded parts and think how two player online could work. Not to mention having to render two scenes at the same time.
Birgitte2004
Member
I'm at the point where I think Nintendo's next console could require a needle injected to periodically withdraw blood and some people would be talking about how great a feature it is and how they couldn't imagine a console without it.
The Elite
BOSS
Yeah, I don't like using voice chat at all unless I'm with friends and my friends rarely game. I can understand why others want it though.
I am honestly more bothered by games that leave voice chat on by default and don't give you the ability to permanently turn it off in games. Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto V are both offenders of this. There usually is a temporary "mute all" solution but once new people jump into the lobby they aren't muted. Same goes for loading into a new game.
I just want to be able to turn off voice chat across the board and only be able to turn it on when I want to use.
Conversely, it would have been fine if Nintendo had left voice chat off by default and then given people the option to turn it on as they chose. They could have kept it behind some sort of parental lock of they are so concerned.
zero shift
Banned
Everyone need to start somewhere just like indies. Better later than never.
And don't start with me with the voice chat feature specialy with randoms.
It is more than possible to have a quality online experience with voice chat on. As long as server is strict you can have people engage in friendly competitive conversation online. I mainly online gamed on Red Orchestra 2 and Global Offensive and rarely did I experience any outlandish voice chat behavior in most servers I played on.
There have also been many times when I played Splatoon that I wish I could have gotten my teams attention to cover a certain area or converse about certain strategies with them.
If you don't think Nintendo's online games should have voice chat because you don't like it, then you're a horrible person. There's absolutely no reason to not have voice chat as an OPTION.
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