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[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I totally agree. I have nothing against difficult games (both Dark Souls and Hollow Knight are masterpieces), but Celeste honestly bored the hell out of me. Yes, the controls were precise and the difficulty was fair, but ... I just couldn't bring myself to care. It didn't feel like I was discovering anything or on any sort of journey. I guess the difficulty made "thematic" sense because the game was about mental illness or whatever, but in games like Dark Souls it's just one facet of the game's brilliantly oppressive atmosphere.

So, yeah, I don't want a Mario game to feel like Dark Souls, because it doesn't make sense. Mario should be a joyful experience. That's not to say it should be a fucking joke, but I haven't found any Mario game I've played to be "so easy it's boring" or "brutally hard" (including classics like the OG SMB and SMB3).

Nobody's saying they want Mario to be brutally hard but like ...have you played Wonder? It's too easy.

 

[Dice]

A player not completing the game is considered a failure for Nintendo. Masahiro Sakurai even discusses the topic in one of this YT videos.

They should smack Metroid Dread with the easy stick a couple more times then.

 

[baphomet]

You're just flat out wrong on this one, sorry, but play SM3/smw, new sup mario u deluxe then Wonder. It's not just about level design, it's what they're adding and removing in terms of power ups, lack of timers, forgiving mechanics. For instance in Wonder you get to hold an extra power up at all times during the level! What is that if not one of the most rediculous challenge-killing mechanics ever? You get hit and turn into small mario? Just hold the a button to get a free power up! See? This is what I mean.

Oh, so you could hold another power up just like Super Mario World?

Wow

 

[ahtlas7]

Metroid Dread certainly kicked my ass. I intend to finish it one day.

 

[Represent.]

Because they are for kids, mainly.

 

[BlackTron]

Mario RPG has breezy and normal modes now, but I'm really hoping there is a post game hard mode because yeah, the new changes made the game even easier than it was before. More satisfying to play, but easier. Hard should have been available from the get go. Give me a break, I've already beaten this game a dozen times since 1996!

I always try to rush my way through this game by avoiding encounters and power leveling with stars, which means tougher bosses. I did the same thing here and never even broke a sweat until Nimbus Land.

One of the biggest things that makes it easier is that you can now cycle members into your party during battle. If your teammate is asleep, dead, shroomed whatever you can swap out your ally. Broken! All the new options are cool, but there needs to be a harder mode for them to add up.

I imagine breezy just plays itself.

 

[Robb]

Broader audiences is my guess. Then there’s the fact that your hardcore fans will likely buy your game anyway, so why fine tune it for them instead of for the people who are on the edge. Goes for most games these days for better or worse.

I don’t disagree though. Would love to have difficulty levels in pretty much all games. The more options the better.

 

[mrmustard]

Nowadays people have the attention span of a fish. They don't want manuals or tutorials, they just want to beat games with the least possible effort.

It's not just Nintendo, games like Spiderman, Horizon, Uncharted, Just Cause, Dead Rising, Far Cry etc. are ridiculously easy on normal.

Normal Mode in most games today is like easy mode + cheat codes back in the days.

 

[daninthemix]

I played Mario Wonder with an invincibility cheat on so I'm not totally aligned with the OP

 

[Codes 208]

Metroid Dread certainly kicked my ass. I intend to finish it one day.

Not to mention SMW and even kirby and the forgotten land, while decently easy when playing through the main game, do have some hair pullingingly difficulty spikes in the challenge modes.

Beating the games are a breeze, completing them can be hard af

 

[BlackTron]

I played Mario Wonder with an invincibility cheat on so I'm not totally aligned with the OP

Avatar checks out

 

[killatopak]

I think they should at least add achievements or trophies so people can find something to give them challenge while those that want it easy can be satisfied.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

SMRPG was already babby's first JRPG, it sounds like they just helped tamp down some of the grinding.

 

[Impotaku]

Mario RPG has breezy and normal modes now, but I'm really hoping there is a post game hard mode because yeah, the new changes made the game even easier than it was before. More satisfying to play, but easier. Hard should have been available from the get go. Give me a break, I've already beaten this game a dozen times since 1996!

I always try to rush my way through this game by avoiding encounters and power leveling with stars, which means tougher bosses. I did the same thing here and never even broke a sweat until Nimbus Land.

One of the biggest things that makes it easier is that you can now cycle members into your party during battle. If your teammate is asleep, dead, shroomed whatever you can swap out your ally. Broken! All the new options are cool, but there needs to be a harder mode for them to add up.

I imagine breezy just plays itself.

So basically if you want you can play on it's original difficulty?

 

[yansolo]

theyve gone full play school since the success of the wii with casual players, the gamecube was the last "hardcore" nintendo console

 

[Woopah]

The challenge is often saved for the past game, that's what happened in Pikmin 4 and Wonder and it sounds like the same for SMRPG.

You're just flat out wrong on this one, sorry, but play SM3/smw, new sup mario u deluxe then Wonder. It's not just about level design, it's what they're adding and removing in terms of power ups, lack of timers, forgiving mechanics. For instance in Wonder you get to hold an extra power up at all times during the level! What is that if not one of the most rediculous challenge-killing mechanics ever? You get hit and turn into small mario? Just hold the a button to get a free power up! See? This is what I mean.

The extra power up is optional. You don't have to use it. You can also increase the difficulty by using the badges.

It was the same in Pikmkn 4, where there were items that could make the game quite easy but you never had to use them.

I do think it would be better if Nintendo offered difficulty modes on the menu that removed those helpful mechanics.

 

[NoobSmog]

I stopped buying Nintendo consoles after the gamecube because their games were becoming too easy. I don't need every game to be difficult, but as so many people like to repeat, Nintendo focuses on "gameplay first". The problem with that is when the gameplay is boring because it's too easy, there's not much left. The endgame stuff in some of their games looks fun, but I wouldn't pay full price just for a few good levels at the end.

edit: and just to be clear, super mario rpg is a good game regardless of difficulty! So i'm not really talking about that game.

 

[cireza]

They have been doing this for 15 years OP.

 

[GymWolf]

I don't know why they do this but it is fucking hilarious how all of their games are tailored for 10 years old childs in term of challenge.

And all of their main games are like that, luigi mansion, mario, zelda, pokemon etc.

Dread was a white fly.

Pinnacle of gaming without challenge for sure.

 

[calistan]

The game is brilliant and anything but lazy. You can choose to not take any mushrooms and play the whole game as small Mario where one hit equal death. You can not touch the midway flag poll, and you can not use any badges, and some of the levels would be considered quite difficult for some players.

Yeah, you can also choose to play it with the controller upside down, or with your feet.

 

[GymWolf]

Nowadays people have the attention span of a fish. They don't want manuals or tutorials, they just want to beat games with the least possible effort.

It's not just Nintendo, games like Spiderman, Horizon, Uncharted, Just Cause, Dead Rising, Far Cry etc. are ridiculously easy on normal.

Normal Mode in most games today is like easy mode + cheat codes back in the days.

At least you can chose ultra hard mode in some of them and have an actual challenge.

If you search for a challenge and play on normal it's entirely on you dude, i like challenge so i always chose the max difficulty (when available).

Today's difficulty mode are basically like this:

Easy\ for people with no working limbs
Normal\ at least one working limb
Hard\ normal mode
Very hard\ kinda hard mode
Ultra hard\ finally a challenge

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah, you can also choose to play it with the controller upside down, or with your feet.

Yep, nothing better than doing the devs job and balance the game by yourself

 

[kyussman]

Gaming has more a casual audience these days though doesn't it,games are going to reflect that.The average normal difficulty on most games today isn't the slightest bit challenging if you have any experience at all with gaming.......an unfortunate side effect of gamings success I suppose,when I was a child games were about 20mins long and I'd still fail to get more than half way through most of them because they were so fucking hard,lol.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Damn, I thought the last couple special level in Super Mario 3D World was effin brutal. the one where you have to collect 30 green stars in a row. I never even finished it, and apparently there's an even harder level after that. Can't tell if just unskilled or getting old.

 

[64bitmodels]

That comparison kind of makes me smile, since SMW is a pretty damn easy game too IMO, and why I prefer SMB3 over it.

Mario World gets seriously challenging from like Forest of Illusion onwards.

 

[tatotiburon]

There never was any challenge in the original Mario RPG. Game was piss easy.

and now it's even more easy

 

[64bitmodels]

For instance in Wonder you get to hold an extra power up at all times during the level! What is that if not one of the most rediculous challenge-killing mechanics ever?

..... you could do that in Mario World too? only difference is that it's executed worse since the powerup will automatically drop upon damage taken

 

[SCB3]

They are? I though Kirby and Mario Wonder had some hard parts compared to previous titles also Zelda: TotK was a significantly harder game than BotW, especially the end parts even with max hearts and stamina

 

[Danknugz]

Same as in the 90's though when their games used to be challenging and have an actual curve for players. I grew up during the 90's and remember it well. As kids we could still complete these game. They don't need to remove it entirely like they do today!

Because kids these days either are austistic or have severe ADD.

 

[AV]

Are we pretending SMRPG was in any way difficult for some reason? It's an incredibly simple JRPG that you play for the flavour

 

[KillaJamm]

Breaking news: grown man complains about super mario and other games aimed at kids, more at 6.

 

[ADiTAR]

Breaking news: grown man complains about super mario and other games aimed at kids, more at 6.

The plot doesn't have any emotional depth.

 

[jufonuk]

Yes, according to GameSpot the new mechanics added are extremely unbalanced and now there's no difficulty whatsoever.

It really kills me to see this. Mario Wonder could've been the best 2d Mario since SMW but it's a cakewalk. They don't even give you challenging Stars to find anymore hidden in levels. They still hide 3 stars/coins in every level. Let's say you get one and die in the process ...when you replay the level you will still have the item. Why do this?

There are many examples like the one above that were changed in Wonder to be extremely easy, such as removing timers in challenge rooms etc

Agree and also disagree.

I can now play Mario wonder with my young daughter who isn’t the best at games and will we be having too much fun laughing instead of her getting upset.

While not the hardest Mario there can still be parts where you will die.

 

[Laieon]

I think it's hilarious that everyone is blaming easy modes on kids when in my experience and anecdotes, it's the exact opposite case. Kids and teens are far more likely to tolerate hard modes than adults, who eventually age out of them because work and the additional responsibilities that comes with age is hard enough and they just want to relax when they get home or get an hour or two away from the kids and wife. Considering the ESA says the average "gamer" is something like 35 and that number continues to rise year after year, I don't think that's a coincidence.

I'm in my mid 30s and have absolutely no interest in anything remotely difficult in games anymore (the only exception maybe being higher difficulty bots in RTS games), which was nowhere near the case 15 years ago.

Even on easy mode, games are pretty damn long these days which means developers don't need to artificially inflate their length by making them ridiculously hard like they were in the 90s and 80s.

 

[sigmaZ]

This is the first thread I've made in the 2 years I've been on Gaf because I'm so upset after learning that Nintendo has removed any and all difficulty in another game, Super Mario RPG. This is a game that I missed out on playing back in the day, so I was really looking forward to this "lovingly and faithfully created remake", only to read GameSpots review where the "con" of the game is "unbalanced new gameplay mechanics that remove ANY challenge".

I can't express how much of a shot to the gut this is to hear because this was a game known for having some difficulty with some of its encounters! Recently, I was really excited about Mario Wonder, but as I've been playing I've been extremely bummed about what "could have been" had Nintendo not nerfed just about every mechanic that used to make the average 2d Mario challenging.

Doesn't Nintendo have Kirby, Yoshi, Pokémon, and many other kid friendly, EASY games? That had to neuter Mario too? Seriously if you don't believe me just play Mario U Deluxe HD on Switch then play Wonder. The same thing happening to Mario RPG was what I was afraid of and here it is.

An argument can be made that Nintendo is making every one of their franchises incredibly easy now compared to how the average Nintendo game was in the past. Zelda might present a bit of challenge here and there but that's it.

A game having some sense of challenge is necessary to be a great game that has any lasting replay value. Nintendo absolutely used to understand this with games like Super Mario World, most Zelda's, Metroid etc. Part of the magic of Nintendo games was they were accessible while still offering a challenge for most players.

This sucks.

Not only Nintendo. Welcome to the era of "accessibility". That's why I still respect the hell out of games like Zelda and Elden Ring where for better or worse the developers take the responsibility of the difficulty upon themselves and how they design the game. Personally, I don't like aggressively difficult games, but I do enjoy games where the challenge is based upon figuring something out and passing a challenge.

 

[Hudo]

Get back to me when you've finished the Champion Road in Super Mario 3D World.

 

[BlackTron]

So basically if you want you can play on it's original difficulty?

Not really. Normal mode may appear like the original game because there's no obvious tampering of stats, but because new mechanics were added that help you out so much, it's quite a bit easier.

The new mechanics are good and make the battle system more interesting and satisfying, but they seem like more options to make a hard mode more engaging. Barring that they're just helping blow through it even faster than the SNES version.

So yeah, I'll be disappointed if there is no post game hard mode.

 

[SmokedMeat]

It’s not just Nintendo.

 

[EDMIX]

smh

Wii basically castrated and neutered them in that area. GameCube was the last system they had for the hardcore in regards to software, after that....easy town, baby land, casual town lol

 

[Fbh]

It's only their more family friendly games though.
Which I think is probably intentional to retain the interest of kids for longer. Back in the day when you got a new game it was often the only new game you'd have for months (outside of the ocasional rental) so even if it was challenging you'd stick with it. These days with the abundance of cheap games and hyper popular F2P stuff, if kids get frustrated they'll probably just go back to playing Roblox, Minecraft, Fortnite, etc.

Their games targeted at an older audience don't follow the same principle.
BotW/TotK are significantly more challenging and less hand holdy than Skyward Sword or Wind Waker
Metroid Dread was pretty challenging
Fire Emblem can be quite challenging if you play classic mode on the more challenging difficulties
etc.

 

[cireza]

Get back to me when you've finished the Champion Road in Super Mario 3D World.

I really enjoyed Mario 3D World but honestly the game is super super easy. Champion Road was actually the only challenging level in the entire game.

Donkey Kong games offer a bit more challenge in my opinion.

 

[Rran]

Oh, so you could hold another power up just like Super Mario World?

Wow

That's true, but SMW's power-up system was less forgiving than Wonder's. In SMW, any hit from a power-up would reduce you to small Mario, while Wonder has the SMB3 (US) power-up system where 2nd tier power-ups like the Fire Flower and Elephant fruit thing give you two hits before small Mario.

Effectively speaking, this means Mario World gets you 3 hits total (two one-hit power-ups and small Mario) while Wonder gets you 5 (two two-hit power-ups and small Mario).

 

[lughnasadh123]

What happened to respecting the devs vision?

 

[Fake]

Not to state the obvious, but that's what difficulty settings are for. If it's for everyone and not just hardcore gamers, that "everyone" should stil include, I'd imagine, hardcore gamers.

'Its for everyone, but not for everyone'.

 

[Phobos Base]

I think it's hilarious that everyone is blaming easy modes on kids when in my experience and anecdotes, it's the exact opposite case. Kids and teens are far more likely to tolerate hard modes than adults, who eventually age out of them because work and the additional responsibilities that comes with age is hard enough and they just want to relax when they get home or get an hour or two away from the kids and wife. Considering the ESA says the average "gamer" is something like 35 and that number continues to rise year after year, I don't think that's a coincidence.

I'm in my mid 30s and have absolutely no interest in anything remotely difficult in games anymore (the only exception maybe being higher difficulty bots in RTS games), which was nowhere near the case 15 years ago.

Even on easy mode, games are pretty damn long these days which means developers don't need to artificially inflate their length by making them ridiculously hard like they were in the 90s and 80s.

I find that as well, if I've spent 8 hours at work with nearly an hour commute each way, I don't want to spend my remaining free time taking 20 attempts to beat a boss or pull off frame perfect combos.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Is it that unreasonable to ask for an optional hard mode? It’s not like this is some huge undertaking. Why are people acting like this is some unrealistic request that would require enormous effort and ruin Nintendo’s appeal?

Especially something like Super Mario RPG. It’s stat/menu-driven combat. It’s not going to require a ton of development effort to tweak the difficulty.

 

[mrmustard]

At least you can chose ultra hard mode in some of them and have an actual challenge.

If you search for a challenge and play on normal it's entirely on you dude, i like challenge so i always chose the max difficulty (when available).

Today's difficulty mode are basically like this:

Easy\ for people with no working limbs
Normal\ at least one working limb
Hard\ normal mode
Very hard\ kinda hard mode
Ultra hard\ finally a challenge

It's not all games. Some are fine or even a bit tough on normal. Cuphead, Atomic Heart, Kingdom Come Deliverance, Dying Light 2 or Grounded for example.

Another problem is that some games like Days Gone or the latest AC for example start with an ok challenge, but after some skillpoints and gear you become Superman and onehit everything.

 

[Chuck Berry]

I dont think the game needed lightning reflexes or was a real brain buster back in the day. It was always seen as a pretty chill, easygoing experience.

Also, why are you believing what some irrelevant GameSpot reviewer thinks? Play it for yourself. Maybe you'll completely suck at the timed offense and defense actions. Who knows.

The notion that if one person says a game is easy, then it's easy for everyone is baffling to me.

 

[STARSBarry]

I enjoyed mario wonder even if it was super easy. I do wish the special world had gone on a bit longer, in many ways I felt the challange worlds of the recent kirby game where better in that regard.

I hope they make a super Luigi equivalent... maybe with Rosalina as the new character and with much tougher levels, perhaps with a new badge that when equipped gives the old unique stats to each character, like Luigi's higher jump when equipped on him or peaches float when equipped on her.

 

[GymWolf]

It's not all games. Some are fine or even a bit tough on normal. Cuphead, Atomic Heart, Kingdom Come Deliverance, Dying Light 2 or Grounded for example.

Another problem is that some games like Days Gone or the latest AC for example start with an ok challenge, but after some skillpoints and gear you become Superman and onehit everything.

That is a common problem of almost all games.

It must be almost impossible to balance a game with an op character and still give a big sense of progression, some games do that better than others but very few get it right.

Atomic heart was pretty easy on max difficulty when you metabolize how the combat work and when you unlock the double buzzsaw mace and telekinesis, i haven't played the others but one was a super realistic simulation (so bounded to be hard by definition), the other is an old school shooter (same as before) and the third one is a survival (so again, a genre that is based on challenge).

Most normal games are piss easy nowadays, especially open worlds (most of the time even on max difficulty).