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[Endo Punk]

You think they waste this 5 years of engine, game research and assets just because this game did not sell enough. I'm sure they invested this amount of time because they want this as a franchise(even sony too thats why they still market this game by adding Galahad in Super time ultra force, LBP costumes, PS4 cover plates, huge marketing it had for launch, bundles etc.,) which is why we did not have proper ending in this game, perhaps they spent so much time on game engine and world instead of focusing on content in their time to get it released even with a delay. I can see they can do this even better in sequel addressing the problems it had with 10+ hours content and multiplayer with less cinematic. This game problem was just did not have enough content, too much cinematic gameplay and no multiplayer for a $60 game in these days of multiplayer domination and users asking replayablity.

The bundles and guest appearances don't say anything about Sony wanting to go forward with the IP. They still have a bomba game to salvage and they are doing exactly that.

We don't know how flexible the engine is but judging by The Order, to me at least, it looks like it was made for one thing and one thing only, and that's to push visuals and anything that benefits the realism the game is going for unlike something like FOX engine which looks very flexible. Wouldn't be surprised if it were solely made for this IP only and with no grand scheme in mind. By that I mean the engine will need to be heavily retooled to work with other IP's/franchises.

Sony have let go of developers that have done much better like Liverpool. They are doing great but to fund a sequel to the order is not using your revenue wisely and unlike a decade ago they desperately need this revenue. Realistically RAD better start looking at other publishers.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

What is beginning to frighten me or even make me really wonder is why do we have Wii U numbers and no Microsoft numbers?

 

[Welfare]

What is beginning to frighten me or even make me really wonder is why do we have Wii U numbers and no Microsoft numbers?

Because Wii U is up YOY.

 

[biglittleps]

The bundles and guest appearances don't say anything about Sony wanting to go forward with the IP. They still have a bomba game to salvage and they are doing exactly that.

We don't know how flexible the engine is but judging by The Order, to me at least, it looks like it was made for one thing and one thing only, and that's to push visuals and anything that benefits the realism the game is going for unlike something like FOX engine which looks very flexible. Wouldn't be surprised if it were solely made to benefit this IP only and with no grand scheme in mind.

Sony have let go of developers that have done much better like Liverpool. They are doing great but to fund a sequel to the order is not using your revenue wisely and unlike a decade ago they desperately need this revenue. Realistically RAD better start looking at other publishers.

Sony is known to take risks in many games (even big scale they cancelled SSM game last year and Bend game 2 years ago, funded Beyond 2 souls) and i expect they will green lit sequel (already should have be done at first place expecting to be a franchise with 3 games which sony normally do with 2nd party developers) for this game because RAD is talented studio with their previous games and its just they could not make this game(only they failed in this so far) what the gamers want today with multiplayer/co-op and more action gameplay instead they wanted to go for Story telling and cinematic experience which is something new like never done before and even agreed its a big risk for a $60 game today. Now they can fix those in the sequel and make a game that gamers expect today.

Liverpool was shutdown because that game did not sell enough like they expected in Vita which is their last game and even their old games too and sony was in big financial troubles at that time so they had no choice to close to this least selling game making studio. Now sony is in good state with big PS4 success and RAD created a excellent game engine, world and interesting concept that can become a franchise which is already finished in their 5 years research so far with one game and its just they did not have enough time to build game around it in first one. Now they just need to make content the gamers expected today in 2 years which is easy and I'm sure they can nail this time given a second opportunity.

Also sony mostly sign up with 2nd party developers for 3 games contract and fund them which i expect to be same with RAD too.

 

[Mpl90]

Are you saying 1/3 of MH copies were digital? Also does this mean last month cream meant to put the order at less than 200k?

None of this makes sense because the order was definitely ahead of MH on the chart and I don't believe NPD counts special editions in with regular editions. So I guess the question is was the order above or below 200K last month how why would MH have such a high digital attach rate compared to other games.

It's digital + exclusive bundle. The game had a bundle available only at Gamestop, which wasn't counted by NPD: they tend to don't count SKUs available only at one retailer (see: Xenoblade).

 

[Ty4on]

No, it's The Order.

I believe the LTDs doesn't includes special editions, so cream updated The Order.

At least we now know it wasn't close to 300 or even 250

Drop was 80-84% with Feb having two weeks of sales.

 

[dragonfart28]

It seems this gen is even more front loaded than last gen.

 

[Frank Serpico]

Holy shit at Order sales, disappeared from charts. Just shows the power of metacritic

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

You have no idea how big of a flop this IP is considering new engine from scratch, 5 years dev time and state of the art current gen visuals and motion capture. You can't rely on games you did 5 yeats ago based on an existing IP and template after your recent one is a mega bomba.



No new IP from SSM themself after the money sink that was Stig's new IP and restructuring of the studio. Expect GOW 4, 5, 6.

No I'm calling you out on saying RAD are not talented. Creating one mediocre game does not invalidate the great games made in the past or ones you could make in the future. Its up to SCE to decide though. No doubt the Order flopped.

No, it's The Order.

I believe the LTDs doesn't includes special editions, so cream updated The Order.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[KillerMan91]

It seems this gen is even more front loaded than last gen.

Are you talking about hardware sales? if so last gen was anything but frontloaded. Both X360 and PS3 had abnormal late gen sales with both having peak years as late as 2011.

 

[cheesekao]

Holy shit at Order sales, disappeared from charts. Just shows the power of metacritic

Metacritic didn't do Bayo2 much favors tho.

 

[Pop]

Holy shit at Order sales, disappeared from charts. Just shows the power of metacritic

It's sad people need to be told what to play.

 

[Boke1879]

Are you talking about hardware sales? if so last gen was anything but frontloaded. Both X360 and PS3 had abnormal late gen sales with both having peak years as late as 2011.

I think he means software but of course those sales will be front loader. This gem has only been going for a little over a year and this year the heavy hitting games come out

 

[Welfare]

It's sad people need to be told what to play.

It sure is sad that people heard that a game was short as hell and really only good in graphics, and would rather spend $60 on a more worthwhile purchase.

Oh wait.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

The bundles and guest appearances don't say anything about Sony wanting to go forward with the IP. They still have a bomba game to salvage and they are doing exactly that.

At this point, we all know you don't like Sony dude, could you ease up trolling in these threads maybe?

Edit: Or maybe you don't like RAD?, either way 5 posts of whining on the same thing is enough.

 

[dragonfart28]

Are you talking about hardware sales? if so last gen was anything but frontloaded. Both X360 and PS3 had abnormal late gen sales with both having peak years as late as 2011.

Software.

I think hardware is relatively healthy even if the industry is contracting.

 

[Mpl90]

Going by the available / leaked / estimated numbers we have for February and March, here's the weekly averages for consoles and how they changed

PS4 - 85,500 (February) --> 66,000 (March) | (22.8%)
XB1 - 69,000 (February) --> 45,800 (March) | (33.6%)
WIU - 23,750 (February) --> 16,500 (March) | (30.5%)
3DS - 98,750 (February) --> 52,000/54,000 (March) | (45.31/47.34%)

Note: 3DS saw the revision launched in February and tracked for 16 days, it's normal its weekly average dropped the most among the other consoles. I wonder why Xbox One saw bigger drops than PS4 in the weekly average, though.

 

[allan-bh]

At least we now know it wasn't close to 300 or even 250

Drop was 80-84% with Feb having two weeks of sales.

Would be funny to watch if people knew in last month thread that actually sold less than 200k.

This game had potential, unfortunately ended up being disappointing and I don't think that Sony should give a green light for the sequel.

 

[Sangetsu-II]

Would be funny to watch if people knew in last month thread that actually sold less than 200k.

This game had potential, unfortunately ended up being disappointing and I don't think that Sony should give a green light for the sequel.

I would give them a chance at a sequel. They already have the engine, the only thing the have to put is better AI, Multiplayer and NG+ and we have a decent seller formula there.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

You think they waste this 5 years of engine, game research and assets just because this game did not sell enough. I'm sure they invested this amount of time because they want this as a franchise(even sony too thats why they still market this game by adding Galahad in Super time ultra force, LBP costumes, PS4 cover plates, huge marketing it had for launch, bundles etc.,) which is why we did not have proper ending in this game, perhaps they spent so much time on game engine and world instead of focusing on content in their time to get it released even with a delay. I can see they can do this even better in sequel addressing the problems it had with 10+ hours content and multiplayer with less cinematic. This game problem was just did not have enough content, too much cinematic gameplay and no multiplayer for a $60 game in these days of multiplayer domination and users asking replayablity.

So... you think Sony should pursue a sunk cost fallacy?

 

[Steverulez]

I would give them a chance at a sequel. They already have the engine, the only thing the have to put is better AI, Multiplayer and NG+ and we have a decent seller formula there.

I would let them pitch for a sequel, but as much as I likes some things about the order it's clearly very flawed, I wouldn't just give them all that money unless they could show they were actually going to fix the issues and focus on the right stuff.

 

[stryke]

Going by the available / leaked / estimated numbers we have for February and March, here's the weekly averages for consoles and how they changed

PS4 - 85,500 (February) --> 66,000 (March) | (22.8%)
XB1 - 69,000 (February) --> 45,800 (March) | (33.6%)
WIU - 23,750 (February) --> 16,500 (March) | (30.5%)
3DS - 98,750 (February) --> 52,000/54,000 (March) | (45.31/47.34%)

Note: 3DS saw the revision launched in February and tracked for 16 days, it's normal its weekly average dropped the most among the other consoles. I wonder why Xbox One saw bigger drops than PS4 in the weekly average, though.

Probably because no retail exclusive to soften the drop.

 

[Super_Cobra]

I love RAD, I bought their GoW prequels and they are better than GoW 1&2. Not 3 though, nothing can top 3.
I really hope Sony gives them another chance.

 

[BadWolf]

You think they waste this 5 years of engine, game research and assets just because this game did not sell enough. I'm sure they invested this amount of time because they want this as a franchise(even sony too thats why they still market this game by adding Galahad in Super time ultra force, LBP costumes, PS4 cover plates, huge marketing it had for launch, bundles etc.,) which is why we did not have proper ending in this game, perhaps they spent so much time on game engine and world instead of focusing on content in their time to get it released even with a delay. I can see they can do this even better in sequel addressing the problems it had with 10+ hours content and multiplayer with less cinematic. This game problem was just did not have enough content, too much cinematic gameplay and no multiplayer for a $60 game in these days of multiplayer domination and users asking replayablity.

Or they could just take that money and invest it in more games like Bloodborne instead of very expensive failures. More Japan funded games would be nice.

 

[gtj1092]

Going by the available / leaked / estimated numbers we have for February and March, here's the weekly averages for consoles and how they changed

PS4 - 85,500 (February) --> 66,000 (March) | (22.8%)
XB1 - 69,000 (February) --> 45,800 (March) | (33.6%)
WIU - 23,750 (February) --> 16,500 (March) | (30.5%)
3DS - 98,750 (February) --> 52,000/54,000 (March) | (45.31/47.34%)

Note: 3DS saw the revision launched in February and tracked for 16 days, it's normal its weekly average dropped the most among the other consoles. I wonder why Xbox One saw bigger drops than PS4 in the weekly average, though.

Bloodborne and MLB are two reasons I can think of. Seems like the X1 price didn't increase demand so much as to stabilize it and maybe move some of it forward.

Also thanks for the answer above about MH.

 

[Endo Punk]

People seem pleased when Evolve was bombing and rightfully so but the idea that The Order is any better is just silly. The game is just as offensively bad if not more so. It reeks of insecurity in the gaming medium. The way it yanks controls away, makes you interact with items by twirling it just to progress and deliver a childishly bad narrative is not something to be proud of. I don't say this lightly but as a multiplatform title it would never get the support from gamers it is getting as an exclusive.

At this point, we all know you don't like Sony dude, could you ease up trolling in these threads maybe?

Edit: Or maybe you don't like RAD?, either way 5 posts of whining on the same thing is enough.

Check The Order reveal thread and others from last year and edit again. The game showed great potential but very little if at all was realised. Don't be so absorbed with devs and consoles that you can't take critcism for your favourite side. This game is a major cock up and should be recognised as so.

 

[Primethius]

I enjoyed my time with the Order. Thought it was a mostly solid but heavily flawed title. And even I don't disagree that it screams to me as one of those titles that break or make a studio. It flopped both in sales and critically. It was marketed fairly heavily too and came out in a pretty empty month.

At this point, if anything, RAD should be working on a much, much smaller title. Because I'm not actually sure they're capable of following up on a sequel that fixes many of it's design flaws.

Especially since Sony could be using said money to fund other titles. And to be very honest, I'd rather Sony focus even more on Japanese games, so...

 

[Sangetsu-II]

People seem pleased when Evolve was bombing and rightfully so but the idea that The Order is any better is just silly. The game is just as offensively bad if not more so. It reeks of insecurity in the gaming medium. The way it yanks controls away, makes you interact with items by twirling it just to progress and deliver a childishly bad narrative is not something to be proud of. I don't say this lightly but as a multiplatform title it would never get the support from gamers it is getting as an exclusive.



Check The Order reveal thread and others from last year and edit again. The game showed great potential but very little if at all was realised. Don't be so absorbed with devs and consoles that you can't take critcism for your favourite side. This game is a major cock up and should be recognised as so.

True it deserved criticism and rightfully so for not being worth the price at launch and not providing any worthwhile gaming but that's why we had 5 threads of the order pre and post launch with the same shit being said and yet here we are 1 month after the launch and people like you still criticize the devs that worked hard on games and now tell them they don't deserve a second chance and that you would rather let a brand new ip die with a 5 year engine of such calibre? That is just cruel and deserve my voice and opinion on the matter.

PS: I didn't buy The Order 1886 and I haven't made 6 posts complaining about the dev yet.

 

[Lemondish]

Software.

I think hardware is relatively healthy even if the industry is contracting.

NPD doesn't include digital. Which means it doesn't include digital versions of these same retail games and ignores all games only released digitally.

For retail health, NPD is an important metric. For an overview of the health of the industry? I'm not so sure it's that important anymore.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

I would let them pitch for a sequel, but as much as I likes some things about the order it's clearly very flawed, I wouldn't just give them all that money unless they could show they were actually going to fix the issues and focus on the right stuff.

I would get them to do a side-story as DLC like Bioshock 2' Minerva's Den, or even a standalone DLC like Infamous First Light or the Wolfenstein one, that expressly sets out to fix the flaws of the original game. That would give them a chance to see if there is something salvageable in this IP that they've clearly invested a lot of promotion into and it gives RAD a chance to demonstrate if they are capable of delivering a good game out of their ideas, without the risk of committing to a full AAA retail release budget.

 

[Boke1879]

So... you think Sony should pursue a sunk cost fallacy?

I doubt they get a chance with a sequel but I definitely think they can be making nice great downloadable titles.

Also their engine could be used to great use. I doubt the engine goes to waste.

 

[serversurfer]

I don't think there's much "stigma" when it comes to series that are so big that they will do well on both systems regardless.

Would you want all of the commercials for your game to end with, "Now available on the platform nobody wants"?

??? -- Where does his post come across that way to you? Uncharted 4 getting delayed was indeed a pretty good blow in the PS4's lineup for this year so them getting a marketing deal to help with that would be smart.

Right. As I said, PS4 has no gamez. Sony wouldn't go after the CoD deal simply because it's a nice deal to have and won't cost them much as the market leader; they're clearly grasping at straws, desperately trying to plug the gaping holes in their library.

I don't see how that goes against his points. I would assume that offering (substantially) more money can help with those situations involving user base when you aren't in the #1 spot.

It doesn't. As John says, he chooses his words carefully. His points about who's willing/desperate enough to offer the best marketing deal are valid on their own, but again, it's a red herring, because we've been told explicitly that it's all about the market share.

On top of this, we don't know if the COD deal is real and if it is, we also don't know if MS possibly feels that they don't need it because of the series' ties with the brand (that spans almost a decade) and/or them wanting to put all of their focus into Halo 5 (something else that John stated in his post).

Sure, MS don't even need CoD when they have Halo. That's why MS have always let the deal lapse whenever a new Halo comes out. Oh, wait…

You do realize I was the first person to mention the Battlefront deal right? Months ago. Also, my post is neutral and meant to be informative... How are you reading that I'm claiming one console has no games over the other? I'm mentioning specific illustrative facts to give insight into how these deals work.

Your response confuses me.

When the rumor about Sony getting Blops surfaced, the general reaction was, "WTF? How could Sony afford to out-bribe MS??" Then two different insiders popped up to say the move was all about the market share, which evokes the image of rats leaving a sinking ship. Then you popped up to say nah, it's all about who offers the best bribe, and just look at how hard up Sony are while MS are sitting pretty. But we'd just been told it was about market share rather than bribes, so I called out your attempt to muddy the waters.

Hope that clears things up for you. <3

You should be used to this, some people will console warrior any discussion, it's usually not that obvious though.

How does debunking John's FUD mean I'm starting a console war?

 

[Ty4on]

Very late to the party, but 10 million sales on last gen consoles in the US alone really shows why even million sales (or in The Order's case: ''''''''''''''''300k'''''''''''''''') can be dissapointing. Not that every game should sell CoD or GTA sales, but the gap between the biggest and next biggest titles is insane.

Spoiler

I know that the order sold way less than 300k. I just find all of the "It's not a complete flop" comments from last month funny in hindsight.

Edit:

How does debunking John's FUD mean I'm starting a console war?

You haven't debunked anything though. That's all speculation and John knows this stuff from the inside.

 

[Bgamer90]

Would you want all of the commercials for your game to end with, "Now available on the platform nobody wants"?

Haha, what? Why would I make a game for a certain console if I felt that nobody wanted that console? Are you getting the Wii U and Xbox One mixed up?

Right. As I said, PS4 has no gamez. Sony wouldn't go after the CoD deal simply because it's a nice deal to have and won't cost them much as the market leader; they're clearly grasping at straws, desperately trying to plug the gaping holes in their library.

No. That doesn't mean "PS4 haz no gamez". The situation is similar to if (say) Halo 5 got delayed. The would be a big blow to the Xbox One's lineup but that wouldn't mean the system has "no gamez" (as there would still be Forza 6, Tomb Raider, etc.). In that situation, it would be smart for MS to get a deal to help fill in that delay.

It doesn't. As John says, he chooses his words carefully. His points about who's willing/desperate enough to offer the best marketing deal are valid on their own, but again, it's a red herring, because we've been told explicitly that it's all about the market share.

You are stating this as if it's a fact when we don't even know that yet.

Sure, MS don't even need CoD when they have Halo. That's why MS have always let the deal lapse whenever a new Halo comes out. Oh, wait&#8230;

Silly "point" considering the COD series is old now, on a decline, and is known for being a game on various platforms (especially Xbox). It obviously wasn't as old back during the release of previous Halos.

When the rumor about Sony getting Blops surfaced, the general reaction was, "WTF? How could Sony afford to out-bribe MS??" Then two different insiders popped up to say the move was all about the market share, which evokes the image of rats leaving a sinking ship. Then you popped up to say nah, it's all about who offers the best bribe, and just look at how hard up Sony are while MS are sitting pretty. But we'd just been told it was about market share rather than bribes, so I called out your attempt to muddy the waters.

Hope that clears things up for you. <3

How does debunking John's FUD mean I'm starting a console war?

Yeah, you're definitely in a console war. Huge stretch that you interpreted his post that way (and "platform nobody wants"? haha, really?).

 

[Conduit]

No. That doesn't mean "PS4 haz no gamez". The situation is similar to if (say) Halo 5 got delayed.

No, it's not similar in any way. I don't thin it's a blow to Sony's line-up, cuz even with Uncharted 4 delay, Sony has still plenty of exclusives till end year, more than MS can imagine and that's the problem. Yes, those exclusives is not AAA caliber like Uncharted, but that doesn't mean games won't be good and high quality.

 

[benny_a]

What the hell is going on. All John Harker did was say that it's all about the Benjamins.

And it is. It's just not always easy to understand. 100 dollars exchanging hands is easy to understand, but there are knock-on effects and all those things to consider.

None of that is FUD and interpreting him as spreading "ps4 has no gaemz" narrative is silly.
Having a huge game every two months that gets people to pre-order and walk into GameStop because of it is a good association. So when one game of that caliber (like Uncharted) gets pushed to next year then it's good to have something else take its marketing place. (Like Battlefront.)

That doesn't mean Battlefront will be better than Tearaway or Rime or whatever, but it's more attractive to the hype culture that drives AAA.

 

[Eolz]

No, it's not similar in any way. I don't thin it's a blow to Sony's line-up, cuz even with Uncharted 4 delay, Sony has still plenty of exclusives till end year, more than MS can imagine and that's the problem. Yes, those exclusives is not AAA caliber like Uncharted, but that doesn't mean games won't be good and high quality.

We're talking about sales here.

 

[Bgamer90]

No, it's not similar in any way. Even with Uncharted 4 delay, Sony has still plenty of exclusives till end year, more than MS can imagine and that's the problem.

You really need to get off console war mode. It would be similar since the game getting delayed would be the biggest AAA game that was originally set for that console's lineup for the year. This isn't about what console has more exclusives and/or list wars.

Yes, those exclusives is not AAA caliber like Uncharted, but that doesn't mean games won't be good and high quality.

I never said that would be the case in my post at all.

 

[wachie]

The Order could still be close to a million WW. Would that still be a bomb?

 

[gtj1092]

Hasn't Sony had battlefront marketing since before the UC4 delay. I don't think they ran to EA desperate looking to save their holiday season. I'm not seeing the connection between UC4 delay and Battlefront. Both MS and Sony have these marketing deals every year wether they are launching big games or not.

 

[FonkyByNature]

I liked "The Order" but i'm not gonna lie, the game needed more time in the oven. The game needs a multiplayer mode. The gunplay is too awesome for not supporting a multiplayer mode. This is one of those games where when shooting, you feel like shooting and feel the gun pressure when shooting... i loved it for that. The QTE, dead ends, bad design made the game less appealing though. Graphics are the most impressive i've ever seen in a videogame, i mean it's fucking incredible !!

 

[ZhugeEX]

The Order could still be close to a million WW.

lol ok.

 

[Primethius]

The Order could still be close to a million WW. Would that still be a bomb?

It's probably close to 500k WW, I don't see how it would be near 1 million WW discounting digital (which probably isn't a large part anyways).

 

[Elandyll]

Hasn't Sony had battlefront marketing since before the UC4 delay. I don't think they ran to EA desperate looking to save their holiday season. I'm not seeing the connection between UC4 delay and Battlefront. Both MS and Sony have these marketing deals every year wether they are launching big games or not.

Some are saying Sony got Battlefront because of the UC4 delay ?

These marketing deals are worked out months, if not years before launch.

My point of view for UC4 is still that it is likely we will have some surprise reveals at E3, given that you don't delay your blockbuster AAA -8 months before launch- without a plan. Seems logical tbh.

 

[Conduit]

You really need to get off console war mode. It would be similar since the game getting delayed would be the biggest AAA game that was originally set for that console's lineup for the year. This isn't about what console has more exclusives and/or list wars.

I never said that would be the case in my post at all.

I compare number of exclusives, i'm not categorizing them. That's why i don't think it is a blow. Well, for those who play ONLY AAA games it is a blow.

 

[Kyoufu]

You do realize I was the first person to mention the Battlefront deal right? Months ago.

Your response confuses me.

Heh.

 

[John Harker]

Heh.

Touché.

I waited till after DPS

 

[Zero173]

I felt like this was the best thread to ask. I'm doing a study for school, and I was wondering if anyone knew a reliable site for finding the top selling games in Japan and the US for the past few years.

 

[DC1]

Holy shit at Order sales, disappeared from charts. Just shows the power of metacritic

No ..more like the power of word of month.

Metacritic is flaws and anyone worth their intellect knows it.

With regard to limited exposer: My Son's middle school universe of all things relevant doesn't even know what a metacritic is.

 

[Servbot24]

It seems this gen is even more front loaded than last gen.

Huh? How can this be front-loaded when Bloodborne is more or less the only essential game that has come out so far (not including Wii U)? Not to mention last gen got better and better as it went unless you were stuck with a 360.