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[radcliff]

I love estranged... I actually prefer the live version off their Live 87-93 CD.

Unfortunately, Axl re-recorded the original vocals from the Tokyo concert and the newer vocals aren't nearly as good as the original. The newer vocals are cleaner and as a result, the rawness and sheer emotion was lost.

 

[shantyman]

Fair enough, I was going off of Bach's description:

Scraped - The intro to the song was the one we heard on the promo where Axl sings A Capella . The main Chorus is also the other part of the promo where he says "Don't you try to stop us now!" I really think this song should have been the first single. Its overall a great song. Axl vocals are awesome, the chorus is catchy, A really good 30 sec solo and a powerful whole band finish. This song is not as hard as shackler's revenge or Chinese democracy, but I really like the vibe of the song. If any of the songs are close to having the old gnr style or feel i would say it would be this one especially the verses (they remind me of AFD style), but not so much for the chorus. Overall, this is as close as the new band will come to capturing the AFD style and I'm not saying that as a bad thing (I like the illusions more), Its just nice to hear some old school GNR feel to the new songs. I like this song a lot, and i know its going to grow on me.

Sorry - First and foremost let me start by saying that this song is NOTHING LIKE HOW BACH DESCRIBED IT. I think its obvious that he had to be talking about a different song and mixed up the names. Nothing in the song sounds like November rain or Nightrain. Not to say that the song is bad though, by all means this song is awesome and as well has lots of potential. The style is really slow and its very similar to Metallica's original UNFORGIVEN. Heavy drums with Axl singing over them. The song has a good solo in the middle and the chorus is catchy with a great heavy guitar. "I'm Sorry for you, not sorry for me, you don't know who you can trust now or believe." Like i said the style is very similar to Unforgiven, and Axl sings in a little deeper voice, not as deep as shackler's revenge, but not in the hi pitch scream that Bach was talking about. Overall its a really good song, that will grow on me, but I don't think it was meant to be a big gun. Its definitely a new approach for GNR

This I Love - If you didn't read above, this is NOT SONG NUMBER 2 OF THE PREVIOUS LEAKS. THAT IS PROSTITUTE. Now some of you might think that this song is a filler for prostitute because it is the track before it according to Best Buy. Don't be fooled! Of all the leaks and all the new songs, I was blown away most by this track. Its a very simple track as far as the instruments and the layout. Axl sings over a piano and a soft set of strings. This leads into a 1:45 sec solo that is in my opinion up there with TWAT as the best guitar work on the album. After the solo, axl sings along with the guitar for a strong finale. But also like prostitute there's a nice piano finish with Axl singing softly. Now I don't love the song because of the guitar work, its great and amazing, but this is without a doubt Axl's deepest lyrics on the album. Its a love song at heart, but a deeply written one where Axl is laying his emotions out in an extraordinary way. He sings with passion that reminds me of November rain. His pain is clearly shown in the way he sings the song. This song truly unbelievable and it shows the versatility of Axl and the band to create a song like this. I mean you would never in a million years imagine that a song like this would be on a album that has a song as hard and industrial as Shackler's revenge and it was a joy to listen to. By the way the Chorus is really really really catchy. The piano work is amazing. And it is also a great way to lead into Prostitute.

 

[Jazzy Network]

So when can I pick up my free can of Dr Pepper?

 

[MaverickX9]

So when can I pick up my free can of Dr Pepper?

Is it just a can?

Hopefully, it'll be a 20 oz.

 

[shantyman]

Go to drpepper.com on the 23rd of november, yes it's a 20.

 

[Buckethead]

It's somewhat jarring if you ask me.

Jarring in a good way? That's what I think anyway.

After seeing the tracklist I was pretty surprised that "Shackler's Revenge" would follow "Chinese Democracy", but now it makes sense to me.

The title track is an adrenaline rush that is the perfect opener, just the kick in the balls the opener needs. But the as the CD outro fades with soft synth textures, Buckethead's guitar kicks in on SR and completely fucks with your mind.

Like you think "wow...ermm..ughh...what?"... you feel a bit disoriented. But then it's brought back around by the layering of Stinson's bass and Bucket's guitar. It keeps you engaged. Personally I think that "Shackler's Revenge" is a great track. The guitar is certainly very technical and not what many are used to when they think of a Guns N' Roses solo, but Axl's vocals are demonic and awesome and the chorus is very catchy.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That's why I also said epic songs. I didn't feel the need to mention Don't Cry, Estranged or November Rain because they're plenty famous, while those I mentioned are much more overlooked.

Coma's too long though. I would have cut a few songs from UYI if I was in charge. There's more than 1 CD of good stuff, but not 2 CDs of worthwhile stuff. Bad Apples could have been cut easy. Duff's "So Fine" could have been cut. Obviously "My World" but I also am not a fan of "Get in the Ring"; the shout outs are embarassingly lame.

 

[SUPREME1]

So, never been into GNR, but I'n very interested in this album.

How is it?

Is it a classic? When I listen to it, is this what I should consider classic GNR?

Is it close to being their best work?


Has time passed them by and it's too late, are they over the hill?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

So, never been into GNR, but I'n very interested in this album.

How is it?

Is it a classic? When I listen to it, is this what I should consider classic GNR?

Is it close to being their best work?


Has time passed them by and it's too late, are they over the hill?

Pretty decent. No. No. Maybe.

This is NOT what you should consider classic GNR nor it is anything like their best work. Do us a favor and listen to Appetite for Destruction.

 

[SUPREME1]

Pretty decent. No. No. Maybe.

This is NOT what you should consider classic GNR not its it anything like their best work. Do us a favor and listen to Appetite for Destruction.

Should I bother buying?

 

[Angry Grimace]

So, never been into GNR, but I'n very interested in this album.

How is it?

Is it a classic? When I listen to it, is this what I should consider classic GNR?

Is it close to being their best work?


Has time passed them by and it's too late, are they over the hill?

How can you be interested if you've never heard the "classic" work?

Appetite for Destruction is an all time classic.

The Use Your Illusion set are classics, but they have a lot of influences you don't hear on AFD and some people don't like that.

Yes, they only have two albums. They have an extended EP called "GN'R Lies" but it sucks and has two decent songs, two covers and a song from their last album played acoustically. And a Covers album which is just old punk covers.

It's hard to explain. If you like Axl Rose's songwriting you'll like Chinese. IF you preferred Izzy Stradline and Slash's writing, you won't. They aren't really similar.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Should I bother buying?

Angry Grimace answers this beautifully. As explained above, "If you like Axl Rose's songwriting you'll like Chinese. IF you preferred Izzy Stradline and Slash's writing, you won't. They aren't really similar."

If you don't want to buy Appetite for Destruction yet, "try" it at youtube. I'm confident you'll like it.

 

[SUPREME1]

Angry Grimace answers this beautifully. As explained above, "If you like Axl Rose's songwriting you'll like Chinese. IF you preferred Izzy Stradline and Slash's writing, you won't. They aren't really similar."

If you don't want to buy Appetite for Destruction yet, "try" it at youtube. I'm confident you'll like it.

So, if I like AFD, I'll like Chinese Democracy?


If so, I'll do just that.... youtube coming up.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

So, if I like AFD, I'll like Chinese Democracy?


If so, I'll do just that.... youtube coming up.

No. If you like AFD, you'll appreciate Chinese Democracy. I can't guarantee the "liking" of Chinese Democracy but so far, it's a very good GNR-less GNR album. Most of the lyrics are written by Axl Rose in AFD, yet most of the music is written by the ex-members. Gah. Hard to explain in words. Let your ears be the judge

 

[Buckethead]

Should I bother buying?

Yes. It's going to be huge or a giant failure. Either way you can tell your grandkids you were there.

 

[Manics]

So, never been into GNR, but I'n very interested in this album.

How is it?

Is it a classic? When I listen to it, is this what I should consider classic GNR?

Is it close to being their best work?


Has time passed them by and it's too late, are they over the hill?

It's way too late and it's only Axl. If they had split up for only a few years and say, gotten back together in the late 90s to release a follow up disc to Use Your Illusion than maybe it would have been something. This is like listening to new Black Sabbath discs with only Tony Iommi as the founding member in the band, it's totally not the same thing at all.

 

[Manics]

Yes. It's going to be huge or a giant failure. Either way you can tell your grandkids you were there.

This I agree with, it may be total shit, but probably will sell a ton of copies just from the interest / nostalgia alone.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's way too late and it's only Axl. If they had split up for only a few years and say, gotten back together in the late 90s to release a follow up disc to Use Your Illusion than maybe it would have been something. This is like listening to new Black Sabbath discs with only Tony Iommi as the founding member in the band, it's totally not the same thing at all.

Black Sabbath in 1989!

 

[laserbeam]

There are plenty of samples of what to expect from Chinese Democracy around as well to make your decision. I enjoy what I have heard for the most part and thats well over half the album

 

[jett]

I too am in the FOR camp, I've really liked all of the demos that have been leaked over the years.

 

[Teddman]

Chinese Democracy is a great album, I already feel from the leaks that it's a classic GnR album.

Enough comparing every album of the band's to Appetite, it's really annoying...

 

[shantyman]

Chinese Democracy is a great album, I already feel from the leaks that it's a classic GnR album.

Enough comparing every album of the band's to Appetite, it's really annoying...

Amen to that. In terms of quality, the songs may actually be on par with Appetite (to me).

The only song I am iffy on is IRS but I would not classify it as worse than Anything Goes. Illusions obviously should have been 1 album so it is stronger than either of those two as well.

 

[shantyman]

If you pre order starting this sunday you get an immediate d/l of the title track from iTunes or Napster.

 

[reilo]

Retail version has leaked...

 

[Reave]

Retail version has leaked...

:O O:

 

[alr1ght]

lies

 

[Tim-E]

Retail version has leaked...

Nope. The one I saw labeled "retail" that was posted various places yesterday had a tracklist that was completely incorrect and only had 12 songs, not 14.

No retail link yet, guise.

 

[shantyman]

I pre ordered w/pickup at bestuy.com and got a code for the track.

 

[John Dunbar]

Rolling Stone reviewed the album.

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/24024297/review/24161281/chinese_democracy

4/5

 

[twinturbo2]

If you pre order starting this sunday you get an immediate d/l of the title track from iTunes or Napster.

OH SHIT SON.

Can I do this through retail stores?

 

[agrajag]

Who actually ended up recording guitars on the album Buckethead or Ron Thal?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Rolling Stone reviewed the album.

http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/24024297/review/24161281/chinese_democracy

4/5

Rolling Stone: ultimate band wagon jumpers.

Everything I've heard so far has rocked, well at least Shackler's Revenge which is horrible.

 

[Buckethead]

Who actually ended up recording guitars on the album Buckethead or Ron Thal?

Rhythm: Richard Fortus, Paul Tobias
Lead: Robin Finck, Buckethead, and Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal.
Actually Axl plays guitar on one of the songs. :lol

But the majority of the guitar work was done by Buckethead, Robin Finck, and Bumblefoot.
Each of the members play on all of the tracks and they trade on and off with solos. It's very balanced in-terms of participation.

But if I made a decision, it'd be more Buckethead than anything else.

 

[shantyman]

Here is the text of the review from David Fricke (obviously a good choice to review any major album:

Let's get right to it: The first Guns n' Roses album of new, original songs since the first Bush administration is a great, audacious, unhinged and uncompromising hard-rock record. In other words, it sounds a lot like the Guns n' Roses you know. At times, it's the clenched-fist five that made 1987's perfect storm, Appetite for Destruction; more often, it's the one sprawled across the maxed-out CDs of 1991's Use Your Illusion I and II, but here compressed into a convulsive single disc of supershred guitars, orchestral fanfares, hip-hop electronics, metallic tabernacle choirs and Axl Rose's still-virile, rusted-siren singing.

If Rose ever had a moment's doubt or repentance over what Chinese Democracy has cost him in time (13 years), money (14 studios are listed in the credits) and body count — including the exit of every other founding member of the band — he left no room for it in these 14 songs. "I bet you think I'm doin' this all for my health," Rose cracks through the saturation-bombing guitars in "I.R.S.," one of several glancing references on the album to what he knows a lot of people think of him: that Rose, now 46, has spent the last third of his life running off the rails, in half-light. But when he snaps, "All things are possible/I am unstoppable," in the thumper "Scraped," that's not loony hubris — just a good old rock & roll "fuck you," the kind that made him and the old band hot and famous in the first place.

Something else Rose broadcasts over and over on Chinese Democracy: Restraint is for suckers. There is plenty of familiar guitar firepower — the stabbing-dagger lick that opens the first track, "Chinese Democracy," the sand-devil fuzz in "Riad N' the Bedouins" and the looping squeals over the grand anguish of "Street of Dreams." But what Slash and Izzy Stradlin used to do with two guitars now takes a wall of 'em. On some tracks, Rose has up to five guys — Robin Finck, Buckethead, Paul Tobias, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal and Richard Fortus — riffing and soloing in broad, saw-toothed blurs. And that's no drag. I still think the wild, superstuffed "Oh My God" — the early Chinese Democracy track wasted on the 1999 End of Days soundtrack — beats everything on Guns n' Roses' 1993 covers album, The Spaghetti Incident?

Most of these songs also go through multiple U-turns in personality, as if Rose kept trying new approaches to a hook or a bridge and then decided, "What the hell, they're all cool." "Better" starts with what sounds like hip-hop voicemail — severely pinched guitar, drum machine and a near-falsetto Rose ("No one ever told me when/I was alone/They just thought I'd know better") — before blowing up into vintage Sunset Strip wallop. "If the World" has Buckethead plucking acoustic Spanish guitar over a blaxploitation-film groove, while Rose shows that he still holds a long-breath vowel — part torture victim, part screaming jet — like no other rock singer.

And there is so much going on in "There Was a Time" — strings and Mellotron, a full-strength choir and Rose's overdubbed sour-growl harmonies, wah-wah guitar and a false ending (more choir) — that it's easy to believe Rose spent most of the past decade on that arrangement alone. But it is never a mess, more like a loud mass of bad memories and hard lessons. In the first lines, Rose goes back to a beginning much like his own — "Broken glass and cigarettes/ Writin' on the wall/It was a bargain for the summer/An' I thought I had it all" — then piles on the wreckage along with the orchestra and guitars. By the end, it's one big melt of missing and kiss-off ("If I could go back in time . . . But I don't want to know it now"). If this is the Guns n' Roses that Rose kept hearing in his head all this time, it is obvious why two guitars, bass and drums were never going to be enough.

It is plain, too, that he thinks this Guns n' Roses is a band, as much as the one that recorded "Welcome to the Jungle," "Sweet Child O' Mine," "Used to Love Her" and "Civil War." The voluminous credits that come with Chinese Democracy certainly give detailed credit where it is due. My favorite: "Initial arrangement suggestions: Youth on 'Madagascar." Rose takes the big one — "Lyrics N' Melodies by Axl Rose" — but shares full-song bylines with other players on all but one track. Bassist Tommy Stinson plays on nearly every song, and keyboardist Dizzy Reed, the only survivor from the Illusion lineup, does the Elton John-style piano honors on "Street of Dreams."

But Rose still sings a lot about the power of sheer, solitary will even when he throws himself into a bigger fight, like "Chinese Democracy." In "Madagascar," which Rose has played live for several years now, he samples both Dr. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech and dialogue from Cool Hand Luke. And at the end of the album, on the bluntly titled "Prostitute," Rose veers from an almost conversational tenor, over a ticking-bomb shuffle, to five-guitar barrage, orchestral lightning and righteous howl: "Ask yourself/Why I would choose/To prostitute myself/To live with fortune and shame." To him, the long march to Chinese Democracy was not about paranoia and control. It was about saying "I won't" when everyone else insisted, "You must." You may debate whether any rock record is worth that extreme self-indulgence. Actually, the most rock & roll thing about Chinese Democracy is he doesn't care if you do.

He should be applauded for writing about the album and the music- great review. I agree that what makes this so great is it does sound like GnR, even if only one member remains.

Also, Prostitute is such an amazing song. The lyrics are some of Axl's best.

 

[Manics]

So the CD comes out in 11 days and there's no official leak yet? I have lost faith in the leak system.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

So the CD comes out in 11 days and there's no official leak yet? I have lost faith in the leak system.

They've managed to keep it under wraps for 13 years, you don't think they can make it another 11 days?

 

[Manics]

They've managed to keep it under wraps for 13 years, you don't think they can make it another 11 days?

Well not entirely, a bunch of demos of the songs leaked a while ago.

 

[agrajag]

Rhythm: Richard Fortus, Paul Tobias
Lead: Robin Finck, Buckethead, and Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal.
Actually Axl plays guitar on one of the songs. :lol

But the majority of the guitar work was done by Buckethead, Robin Finck, and Bumblefoot.
Each of the members play on all of the tracks and they trade on and off with solos. It's very balanced in-terms of participation.

But if I made a decision, it'd be more Buckethead than anything else.

Agreed on Buckethead. And Robin Finck is one of the shittiest guitarists I've ever heard.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Rhythm: Richard Fortus, Paul Tobias
Lead: Robin Finck, Buckethead, and Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal.
Actually Axl plays guitar on one of the songs. :lol

But the majority of the guitar work was done by Buckethead, Robin Finck, and Bumblefoot.
Each of the members play on all of the tracks and they trade on and off with solos. It's very balanced in-terms of participation.

But if I made a decision, it'd be more Buckethead than anything else.

I don't believe that's entirely accurate. I am not of the impression that Paul Huge played on the actual retail album; he left the band in 2002 and the album has been entirely re-recorded multiple times since then. I'm not sure of how much that old stuff is still around.

I'm also certain that Ron Thal did rhythm guitars, because he stated he re-recorded the "mechanical" parts (you can hear his "non-mechanical" slightly off time rhythm on the title track.) My guess is that Robin played basically everything other than some solos, and he played a lot of those too. We'll never know unless the liners have the players. AFAIK they have the writing credits but not the actual performance credits.

As for Axl, he also played a rhythm guitar track on "Shotgun Blues" on Use Your Illusion II. I knew a guy that actually worked as a asst. Engineer at one of the many studios that Axl recorded in. He said there are tape after tapes of Axl from the late 90s/early 00s trying to play guitar tracks. :lol

Axl, being friends with Izzy again, shoulda asked for a little writing help, but whatever.

 

[Coins]

Agreed on Buckethead. And Robin Finck is one of the shittiest guitarists I've ever heard.

What have you heard Robin Finck on besides NIN? He is an awesome guitarist and if youre judging by NIN then you arent really hearing his work anyway.

 

[Angry Grimace]

What have you heard Robin Finck on besides NIN? He is an awesome guitarist and if youre judging by NIN then you arent really hearing his work anyway.

There's lots of examples of his Chinese Democracy work, and it's mostly not good.

 

[Coins]

There's lots of examples of his Chinese Democracy work, and it's mostly not good.

Im not sure if you could judge that, either. He does have King Axl telling him exactly what to do. I doubt that anyone but Axl had any musical input on this album whatsoever.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Im not sure if you could judge that, either. He does have King Axl telling him exactly what to do. I doubt that anyone but Axl had any musical input on this album whatsoever.

Because I went to a GN'R concert where he played his own solos where Slash's used to go and they were not good. He plays a lot of weird intervals in his solos which sound bad. Even on Chinese, the songs still call for Bluesy solos, hence why Slash would have been the best choice.

Shoulda just sent a tape over to Slash's house and let him just rip, and then sent him a royalty check.

 

[jett]

I'm also certain that Ron Thal did rhythm guitars, because he stated he re-recorded the "mechanical" parts (you can hear his "non-mechanical" slightly off time rhythm on the title track.) My guess is that Robin played basically everything other than some solos, and he played a lot of those too. We'll never know unless the liners have the players. AFAIK they have the writing credits but not the actual performance credits.

To Buckethead fans, it's pretty clear which parts were recorded by him.

 

[Angry Grimace]

To Buckethead fans, it's pretty clear which parts were recorded by him.

I was more referring to the rhythm parts.

I can tell who did the leads between Bucket and the other guys.

 

[agrajag]

What have you heard Robin Finck on besides NIN? He is an awesome guitarist and if youre judging by NIN then you arent really hearing his work anyway.

No, he's not. He's terrible.

I am judging him by this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmqlPxUbhAk

not.a.single.note.in.key.

Buckethead and Ron Thal are both fantastic guitarists. Finck is awful.

 

[shantyman]

So the CD comes out in 11 days and there's no official leak yet? I have lost faith in the leak system.

So you are badmouthing them in this thread and want it to leak? Buy it you cheapskate!

 

[shantyman]

I don't believe that's entirely accurate. I am not of the impression that Paul Huge played on the actual retail album; he left the band in 2002 and the album has been entirely re-recorded multiple times since then. I'm not sure of how much that old stuff is still around.

I'm also certain that Ron Thal did rhythm guitars, because he stated he re-recorded the "mechanical" parts (you can hear his "non-mechanical" slightly off time rhythm on the title track.) My guess is that Robin played basically everything other than some solos, and he played a lot of those too. We'll never know unless the liners have the players. AFAIK they have the writing credits but not the actual performance credits.

As for Axl, he also played a rhythm guitar track on "Shotgun Blues" on Use Your Illusion II. I knew a guy that actually worked as a asst. Engineer at one of the many studios that Axl recorded in. He said there are tape after tapes of Axl from the late 90s/early 00s trying to play guitar tracks. :lol

Axl, being friends with Izzy again, shoulda asked for a little writing help, but whatever.

Huge/Tobias is credited on the album. Ron Thal is not a rhythm guitarist in general, he is a lead and was brought in to approximate Buckethead. He played most of Shackler's Revenge.

But what Slash and Izzy Stradlin used to do with two guitars now takes a wall of 'em. On some tracks, Rose has up to five guys — Robin Finck, Buckethead, Paul Tobias, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal and Richard Fortus — riffing and soloing in broad, saw-toothed blurs.

He did ask for help- Finck (Better), Buckethead (Shackler's Revenge), etc. all helped write tracks:

It is plain, too, that he thinks this Guns n' Roses is a band, as much as the one that recorded "Welcome to the Jungle," "Sweet Child O' Mine," "Used to Love Her" and "Civil War." The voluminous credits that come with Chinese Democracy certainly give detailed credit where it is due. My favorite: "Initial arrangement suggestions: Youth on 'Madagascar." Rose takes the big one — "Lyrics N' Melodies by Axl Rose" — but shares full-song bylines with other players on all but one track. Bassist Tommy Stinson plays on nearly every song, and keyboardist Dizzy Reed, the only survivor from the Illusion lineup, does the Elton John-style piano honors on "Street of Dreams."

Read the review above. I even bolded these parts!

 

[Teddman]

Agreed on Buckethead. And Robin Finck is one of the shittiest guitarists I've ever heard.

I've seen him live with Gn'R and he was awesome. Easily the most charismatic and talented guy onstage besides Axl. He sounded great on the new songs and old songs alike, many classic hits he hammered home with accuracy and brio.

Judging by the leaks, I'd say Finck is the most represented guitar player on the record and the one who was with the Chinese Democracy project the longest. I like his work on it overall.

 

[agrajag]

Well, I don't mean to come across as forceful. But as a guitar player, I have to totally disagree. He is a complete hack.