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[dalin80]

Only in this country would we celebrate a loser like Stirling Moss. We love losers.

different era of drivers, moss once went to the stewards after a race about one of his main rivals, not too complain but to back him up as he felt the penalty was unfair.



Also thumbs up to lewis despite red bull having an immense car advantage the guy is just slowly extending his championship lead while team douchbag carry on with their ever public implosion.

 

[Lince]

You don't go off the track and get an advantage, no Ifs, no buts

lets look at the facts:

1) Alonso is pushed wide by Kubica while overtaking, he cuts the chicane and gains unfairly position. Victim: Kubica.

2) Alonso was going to be forced to lift off until Kubica gains back his position (at this point Alonso overtook Alguersuari too, so that would have made him lose two positions instead of just one, pretty fair penalty to me)

3) Kubica has to retire anyway due to a problem, so the only one harmed can no longer be compensated. People harmed: None.

4) Alonso is penaltied anyway (pretty fair, you cant let somebody break the rules and get away with it) but his penalty is delayed, harming him. And not only that, its very harsd because a DT at that point would have made him lose 6 or 7 positions at the very least. Not only that, it is coupled with the exit of the SC so that he ends up LAST.

Result: No one was harmed. He gains one position, with the penalty he looses 14 positions.

Pretty unfair to me.

Now apply the exact same logic to Lewi's case in Valencia.

Result: Alonso and everybody behind him gets harmed. He gains a lot, with the penalty he looses none.

Is that fair to you?

.

 

[John_B]

What happened to Alonso these last couple of races that made him blame everything on everyone else and let his driving turn to shit because of his frustration? I was sure Alonso was going to be the main contender for Hamilton, but he is cracking and it looks awful.

Hamilton is in a league of his own. The car was shit this weekend, and yet he managed to keep up with Webber.

He is slicing everyone (and Vettel's tires) out there this season. He has overtaken everyone, and the comeback has only been leapfrogging and that shady move by Button.

If McLaren produces a RB6 or a BGP 001 in the next couple of seasons it would be domination to the point of FIA ruling for allowing Hamilton to drive with one arm only.

 

[dalin80]

on the alonso issue i will quote what i posted on the autosport forum-

Spa 08 was one of the biggest disgraces in motor racing and was felt by many (me included) to be either completely incompetent or malicious stewarding.

This was entirely different, it doesnt matter who gave who what line the fact is alonso got passed with all of his wheels over the white line. simple, give that position back and its not a problem.

Alonso should have given that position back as he was one of the vocal after spa 08 spouting the very same thing, ferrari were simply unlucky that the renault retired at that point and that a safety car was released for a unreleated incident, but if alonso had followed his own comments from 08 it wouldnt have been an issue.

 

[CurlySaysX]

They need to upgrade the audio systsem at silverstsone.
The anthems sounded like they were being played on a $20 portable radio cassette player.

 

[megateto]

What happened to Alonso these last couple of races that made him blame everything on everyone else and let his driving turn to shit because of his frustration? I was sure Alonso was going to be the main contender for Hamilton, but he is cracking and it looks awful.

Hamilton is in a league of his own. The car was shit this weekend, and yet he managed to keep up with Webber.

He is slicing everyone (and Vettel's tires) out there this season. He has overtaken everyone, and the comeback has only been leapfrogging and that shady move by Button.

If McLaren produces a RB6 or a BGP 001 in the next couple of seasons it would be domination to the point of FIA ruling for allowing Hamilton to drive with one arm only.

The fuck? I know Alonso is damaging his own position right now, but only a blind man could deny that Hamilton is pretty much "the last man to do something before the rule is polished". Hamilton is an amazing driver but if you are to look at things suspiciously, it almost seems as if the FIA wants him to win again. And he really doesn't need that extra help, he's good enough to pull it all by himself.

 

[Dead Man]

Christ. The butthurt Ferrari fans are as bad as the butthurt MacLaren fans.

 

[John_B]

The fuck? I know Alonso is damaging his own position right now, but only a blind man could deny that Hamilton is pretty much "the last man to do something before the rule is polished". Hamilton is an amazing driver but if you are to look at things suspiciously, it almost seems as if the FIA wants him to win again. And he really doesn't need that extra help, he's good enough to pull it all by himself.

I don't really believe this FIA point support conspiracy. There is a new management and they have a new approach this season. I think the outcome has been less shit than some of the previous seasons.

Alonso has cracked in two races now; being more focused on the rules while driving the car, than driving the car while driving the car. Hamilton can get frustrated, and he has made some silly mistakes, but he always keeps it together on the track.

 

[Lince]

Hamilton can get frustrated, and he has made some silly mistakes, but he always keeps it together on the track.

like failing to see a traffic light and bumping into Kimi's car ruining his race, or beaching your car in the sands of China, or that red mist trying to overtake Alonso at Interlagos first lap 2007, or overtaking the safety car last week at Valencia which ruined his own... oh wait!!!! anyway, yup, he always keeps it together.

 

[dalin80]

wow 4 instances in 4 years, about the same as cock-ups by alonso just this half a season.

 

[Britprog]

Glad I avoided Mclaren for this race, chrome box on wheels - again.

LOL perfect answer to this

Credit to the original poster on the autosport boards

 

[The Orange]

I didn't think Alonso's penalty was up for debate, it was obvious he gained a position while cutting a corner, not really much to say. The fact that it was him who had to move, and not Kubica pretty much demonstrates that he hadn't overtaken him at that point.
It was an amateur move to think he'd get away with it, and he only has himself to blame considering how Kubica's race turned out after that.

 

[Pterion]

Oh, and Kobayashi was amazing once again. The guy needs a better drive. We've found a good japanese driver.

 

[curls]

LOL perfect answer to this

Credit to the original poster on the autosport boards

:lol

Hey you, I welcome surprises.

 

[Burai]

Only in this country would we celebrate a loser like Stirling Moss. We love losers.

The man won 16 races, more so than a whole stack of champions. He's the 14th most winning driver of all time. His stats are astonishing for someone that didn't take the big prize.

Mike Hawthorn and Phil Hill hold the dubious honour of winning a title with the fewest wins in their career. They won just 3 races each. Hawthorn and Keke Rosberg are famous for having won just one race each in their championship year.

 

[Stop It]

I missed the Gp due to being at the Flying Legends air show at the Imperial War Musuem at Duxford, but just watched the highlights.

So, is it safe to guess that everyone criticising Hamilton last race is now defending Alonso? Yes, thought so, Karmas a bitch. Good on Webber for sticking Vettel out to dry at Copse, that move has livened the championship battle up a bit. Hamilton took a decent 2nd but that RBR was too fast. Rosberg shown that the Mercedes can race fast for 3rd and Button pulled a blinder to go from 14th to 4th, good stuff.

Honestly though, who has cursed Ferrari? Alonso had a drive through and a puncture, and Massa...oh Felipe....

Predictions for the start of race, bumps will spin a car out, someone will rub another car before the runway area, someone will go off at least.

So, have you got any predictions for anyone other than Massa?

Right, lets go through the check-list, did Massa go off at the start, yes with Alonso and had a puncture. Did he spin out? yes, on his own too, nobody needed to bump him and did he go off? yes, in that very spin. 3 strikes, you're outta here.

 

[Lince]

Hopefully for him, the soccer match can cool his anger. Although I suspect the Dutch will win it...

lol keep betting at the bookies on you FiA rule maker/changer patronized-boy and stop the prophetic stuff on football.

Spoiler

Viva España! Campeones del Mundo! England Who?

 

[Arhal_Katarn]

I love it how BBC only mentioned twice that it was Lewis who gave Vettal that puncture. Red Bull should have won this title by now, if Lewis does win this year he can count himself very fucking lucky.

 

[Lince]

I didn't think Alonso's penalty was up for debate, it was obvious he gained a position while cutting a corner, not really much to say. The fact that it was him who had to move, and not Kubica pretty much demonstrates that he hadn't overtaken him at that point.
It was an amateur move to think he'd get away with it, and he only has himself to blame considering how Kubica's race turned out after that.

yeah sure that's why he immediately asked his Ferrari engineer at the pit wall if he should yield the position back and was answered they were asking Charlie first, I'm not referring to you nor anyone in this thread but I swear to God every time Alonso somewhat fails to meet expectations there's a stupid and ignorant Brit around to claim "lol useless" "lol throwing the toys already" "lol Hamilton the rookie beat him in 2007", that's disgusting.

 

[Dilly]

You seem to think that everyone is British here.

 

[curls]

I love it how BBC only mentioned twice that it was Lewis who gave Vettal that puncture. Red Bull should have won this title by now, if Lewis does win this year he can count himself very fucking lucky.

Red Bull and its shitty politics are the fault.

 

[Shaneus]

As asked earlier, can anyone sum up what Jordan said about Horner? I'm curious.

 

[Seanspeed]

I thougt the rule was if you drive off the racetrack and doing so puts you at an advantage, then you should hand it back. Doesn't make any distinction about why you went off the racetrack

You could argue that kubica ran Alonso off the road. You could also argue that Alonso out his car into a position where kubica would have to close the door on him.

You don't go off the track and get an advantage, no Ifs, no buts

Its a situation where the stewards could have taken the circumstances into account and realized that Kubica forced Alonso into that position unfairly. As much as you can argue that Alonso 'gained an advantage' by running off the track, you can also argue that Kubica gained an advantage by running Alonso off the track, whether Alonso got the penalty or just handed the position back.

In a fair world, Alonso would have been let go on, but the stewards felt they wanted to penalize him according purely to the letter of the law, which is their justifiable position to do so.

Just reminds me of Spa 08 a bit. Lewis shouldn't have gotten penalized in all fairness, but by the letter of the law, his penalty was justified.

 

[Seanspeed]

It was an amateur move to think he'd get away with it.

He would have almost surely stuck the pass had Kubica not run him off. He had the inside going into the corner, which is exactly where you want to be, as the entry into the corner on the outside is dirty.

Kubica ran him off because he knew he was going to lose the position if he didn't.

 

[curls]

As asked earlier, can anyone sum up what Jordan said about Horner? I'm curious.

Basically accusing Horner of not being genuine when he said he was happy Webber won. Cue Horner squirming in front of the camera.
Probably the most blunt EJ has been yet to Horner's face about the team bias.

 

[The Orange]

yeah sure that's why he immediately asked his Ferrari engineer at the pit wall if he should yield the position back and was answered they were asking Charlie first, I'm not referring to you nor anyone in this thread but I swear to God every time Alonso somewhat fails to meet expectations there's a stupid and ignorant Brit around to claim "lol useless" "lol throwing the toys already" "lol Hamilton the rookie beat him in 2007", that's disgusting.

Well, then he has his team to blame for not clearing it up.

And Seanspeed, almost surely doesn't cut it. His wheels weren't ahead, and he (or his team) should've been smart about it.

 

[Seanspeed]

And Seanspeed, almost surely doesn't cut it. His wheels weren't ahead, and he (or his team) should've been smart about it.

Yes, 'almost' surely does cut it. Its general racing etiquette. You dont have to have your wheels ahead, you just need to be at least about 3/4 alongside and then it becomes pretty much mandatory to leave some room.

I suppose Alonso could have known that Kubica can get a little tough when it comes to defending his position(see Fuji 2007 against Massa), but that doesn't make Alonso more guilty or anything. Drivers shouldn't have to back off against certain drivers just because they know they will race them dirty. Its this lack of etiquette that needs to be addressed. Drivers do it because they know they can get away with it. I dont blame Kubica for doing what he needs to do, but I dont think its fair on Alonso, either.

 

[Shaneus]

Basically accusing Horner of not being genuine when he said he was happy Webber won. Cue Horner squirming in front of the camera.
Probably the most blunt EJ has been yet to Horner's face about the team bias.

Horner was there when he said that? Nice.

It's amazing how many people are starting to root for Webber after this fiasco, too. I can't remember seeing a team being so successful on the track yet so consistently screwing up off of it.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Love Alonso getting the drive-through penalty. Serves the cunt right. :lol

It was a shame Vettel got the bad luck he did... I was hoping to see him, Webber and Hamilton really race it out. Vettel is my pick for the world champ this year, as much as I want to see Button take it again.

Button finishing in such a good position after starting so far back was the highlight for me, though.

 

[magnificent83]

I missed the Gp due to being at the Flying Legends air show at the Imperial War Musuem at Duxford, but just watched the highlights.

So, is it safe to guess that everyone criticising Hamilton last race is now defending Alonso? Yes, thought so, Karmas a bitch. Good on Webber for sticking Vettel out to dry at Copse, that move has livened the championship battle up a bit. Hamilton took a decent 2nd but that RBR was too fast. Rosberg shown that the Mercedes can race fast for 3rd and Button pulled a blinder to go from 14th to 4th, good stuff.

Honestly though, who has cursed Ferrari? Alonso had a drive through and a puncture, and Massa...oh Felipe....


Right, lets go through the check-list, did Massa go off at the start, yes with Alonso and had a puncture. Did he spin out? yes, on his own too, nobody needed to bump him and did he go off? yes, in that very spin. 3 strikes, you're outta here.

LMAO, it makes you wonder if the crash is still on Massa's mind. Its been pretty uncharacteristic of him to be so error prone.

 

[Somtaaw]

http://www.youtube.com/v/S0e_tYqdfnM
Rubens lap on top gear

 

[Funky Functionality]

http://www.youtube.com/v/S0e_tYqdfnM
Rubens lap on top gear

Haha, that was awesome. Rubens is by far the nicest guy in F1, and now, verifiably faster than the Stig.

 

[Shaneus]

Really? Nicest guy in F1? There are far nicer... he's spat more than his fair share of dummies in his time.

Massa strikes me as possibly being the nicest. Although that may be his slightly higher-than-normal voice that makes him seem less intimidating :lol

 

[navanman]

I Sky+ the race so I'll watch it when I get back to Ireland.

Judging by the comments here, its sounds like a great race and full of incidents.

 

[mclem]

Haha, that was awesome. Rubens is by far the nicest guy in F1, and now, verifiably faster than the Stig.

And, for that matter, Schumacher - in exactly the same car. I can't help but think he feels *really* good about that...

 

[mrklaw]

Its a situation where the stewards could have taken the circumstances into account and realized that Kubica forced Alonso into that position unfairly. As much as you can argue that Alonso 'gained an advantage' by running off the track, you can also argue that Kubica gained an advantage by running Alonso off the track, whether Alonso got the penalty or just handed the position back.

In a fair world, Alonso would have been let go on, but the stewards felt they wanted to penalize him according purely to the letter of the law, which is their justifiable position to do so.

Just reminds me of Spa 08 a bit. Lewis shouldn't have gotten penalized in all fairness, but by the letter of the law, his penalty was justified.

I'll reiterate

You don't go off the track and get an advantage, no Ifs, no buts

 

[Seanspeed]

Well thats your opinion.

I'd say thats massively unfair to Alonso, or any driver thats put in a similar position. And sets a very bad precedent. Basically, its saying that drivers can run a legitimate attacking car off the road, and the passing car just has to deal with it.

Not exactly what we want if we want to see great racing.

 

[Aegus]

What? Alonso knew that Kubica was going to close the door in his face and he'd have to be a moron to expect otherwise. Alonso should have braked.

 

[Shaneus]

What the hell?

Battle of Britain? And the rest. Red Bull were facing accusations of rank civil war after an extraordinary British Grand Prix won by Australia's Mark Webber ended with one half of the team's garage allegedly taunting the other with a body part from the winning car.

:lol

If that was actually done, I'd say it was more in jest than with any serious malice. Given that it was apparently only worth 1/10th and Webber won by far more than that, I doubt it was serious.

 

[Luckyman]

The Times says Red Bull is in Civil War between mechanics.

Good times.

 

[S. L.]

the internal command structure at RBR certainly is interesting. From what i read it is Newey who makes (and made) the calls on what car gets which parts and not Horner

 

[state_vector_collapse]

I'll reiterate

Reiterate all you want - but if it was as set in stone as you'd like to believe, it wouldn't need a team of stewards with ex-drivers to sit and review situations. It would be an auto penalty as soon as it happened. The fact it took however long it was - and that ex drivers like Brundle and Coulthard thought it was harsh, shows it is anything but black and white.

 

[curls]

The Times says Red Bull is in Civil War between mechanics.

Good times.

Speaking of Red Bull, what is the point of Toro Rosso? Seems like your sister team is the best and the other is left to rot.

 

[dalin80]

Well thats your opinion.

I'd say thats massively unfair to Alonso, or any driver thats put in a similar position. And sets a very bad precedent. Basically, its saying that drivers can run a legitimate attacking car off the road, and the passing car just has to deal with it.

Not exactly what we want if we want to see great racing.

Precedent was set in spa 08, and then hamilton did give the place back.

'you cant gain a place that way, it should always be given back' said by mr alonso just after spa 08.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

The Times says Red Bull is in Civil War between mechanics.

Good times.

 

[navanman]

the internal command structure at RBR certainly is interesting. From what i read it is Newey who makes (and made) the calls on what car gets which parts and not Horner

So by that logic, is the article confirming that Newey has some real role in running the team and that was one of the reasons he also moved to RBR?

 

[mrklaw]

the internal command structure at RBR certainly is interesting. From what i read it is Newey who makes (and made) the calls on what car gets which parts and not Horner

it was a bad decision, and IMO RBR should come out and admit it. Did Webber have the new wing on his car already, or was it just in the garage? Isn't it just as simple as Vettel broke his, so he'll have to go back to the previous one?

Never mind team relationships, there is surely some benefit to having both drivers try it out to get better information back on how well its working.

 

[navanman]

Come on update the F1racemanager website.

I want to check on my results before I go to bed.

 

[S. L.]

it was a bad decision, and IMO RBR should come out and admit it. Did Webber have the new wing on his car already, or was it just in the garage? Isn't it just as simple as Vettel broke his, so he'll have to go back to the previous one?

Never mind team relationships, there is surely some benefit to having both drivers try it out to get better information back on how well its working.

eh, i think the whole thing is a bit overblown. It is pretty obvious that Vettel is their #1 driver. What makes the whole ordeal so 'controversial' is that Webber is too good for number 2 driver, would he be another Kovalainen or some guy of that sort nobody would have said anything.

and racemanager sure takes long. the Senna/Sakon swap probably made their database implode :lol :lol

 

[prettyvacant77]

Missed the race, was driving home from Sheffield. The Five Live commentary is soddin' awesome though.

Also, loved Alonso on the radio after his drive through:

"NO MORRREEE RRRRRADIO FOR THE RRRRRRRREST OF THE RRRRRRACE!!!"

:lol :lol :lol