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[KingV]

I only saw part of the debate, so I can't speak too well on the whole thing, but here's my take on the 20 minutes I watched.

Bush:

+Came across as a regular guy, as usual
+Emphasis on staying the course
+Somewhat better insight than usual in his policy decisions
-Still not a very good public speaker
-Maybe came accross as too regular
-Left on the defensive, quite a bit

Kerry:

+Not as pompous sounding as he has been in the past
+Some strong, concrete criticisms of Bush's policies
+Better spoken than Bush
-Still sounded pompous
-Iraq policy still seems muddled, came across as "I'd do what Bush is doing, only better" (perhaps cleared up in other parts of the debate?)


Overall, from what I'd saw, I'd give a slight edge to Kerry, if for no other reason than he came across much better than I expected. I don't see a resounding victory across the board for him, and so far my online reading list seems mixed on the topic of the outcome outside of die hard Bush or Kerry supporters. I think Bush still held his own to some regard, and his focus on the resolve to win the war in Iraq was welcome, at least from my point of view, as I see it as imperative that we follow through, regardless of what you might think of the reasons for invading Iraq. I did not sense that same commitment from Kerry. Strategically, if Bush can continue to stay in the debates whatsoever, I think he effectively wins the war, but not the battle. Anything that can even be mistaken for a tie will likely not make enough of a difference to clinch the election for Kerry.

 

[ErasureAcer]

DemocraticUnderground is at that plus .com

It's a great place for Latest Breaking News and what is going on with campaigns and polls and such. Every now and then there are some conspiracy threads involving Bush co...but can you really blame them? Bush can't be trusted about anything.

Overall a great resource of a site.

 

[KingV]

Link, please.

Well said.

www.democraticunderground.com

Some interesting conspiracy theories on that there site at times.

 

[Suranga3]

I just noticed Bush has bad posture. Bending over the mic like that is not professional!

 

[KingV]

DemocraticUnderground is at that plus .com

It's a great place for Latest Breaking News and what is going on with campaigns and polls and such. Every now and then there are some conspiracy threads involving Bush co...but can you really blame them? Bush can't be trusted about anything.

Overall a great resource of a site.

Maybe a great resource if you lean very heavily to the left. Sometimes there's some good linked stories, but god help you if you read the comments. It took me about 15 seconds to find a post saying that Gadafi was the wisest man alive.

 

[Mike Works]

I just noticed Bush has bad posture. Bending over the mic like that is not professional!

When you've done what he did with Iraq, I think you can get away with bending over the mic.

Besides, maybe he was trying to appeal to the gay vote?

 

[KingV]

When you've done what he did with Iraq, I think you can get away with bending over the mic.

Besides, maybe he was trying to appeal to the gay vote?

negatory, it's his gangsta lean

 

[Socreges]

www.democraticunderground.com

Some interesting conspiracy theories on that there site at times.

Holy shit. That would be the equivalent, though the stupidity didn't seem as prevalent. Well, at least there's no one, such as Meier, promoting the forum as if we should take them seriously.

 

[Suranga3]

That mofu needs to lean back.

 

[Triumph]

I've gotta say, I was impressed with John Kerry tonight. I didn't think the bugger had it in him to go on the offensive as consistently as he did, with as effective results as it generated.

Nonetheless, the fucker still isn't getting my vote. Until he starts seriously addressing corporate crime in America, he's still just another tool of the political duopoloy "running" the country to me. Have fun voting for "the lesser of the two evils" this November, suckers. My conscience will be clean when I cast my vote:

 

[Rorschach]

I've gotta say, I was impressed with John Kerry tonight. I didn't think the bugger had it in him to go on the offensive as consistently as he did, with as effective results as it generated.

Nonetheless, the fucker still isn't getting my vote. Until he starts seriously addressing corporate crime in America, he's still just another tool of the political duopoloy "running" the country to me. Have fun voting for "the lesser of the two evils" this November, suckers. My conscience will be clean when I cast my vote:

 

[ConfusingJazz]

I've gotta say, I was impressed with John Kerry tonight. I didn't think the bugger had it in him to go on the offensive as consistently as he did, with as effective results as it generated.

Nonetheless, the fucker still isn't getting my vote. Until he starts seriously addressing corporate crime in America, he's still just another tool of the political duopoloy "running" the country to me. Have fun voting for "the lesser of the two evils" this November, suckers. My conscience will be clean when I cast my vote:

Um, the focus of the debate was foreign policy. If you didn't notice, Kerry didn't mention anything about the economy at all. You will have to wait for the third debate for that I believe.

 

[Triumph]

Um, the focus of the debate was foreign policy. If you didn't notice, Kerry didn't mention anything about the economy at all. You will have to wait for the third debate for that I believe.

Dur!

Seriously, if you think Kerry is going to tackle that issue sufficiently to earn my(as well as other hard line Nader supporters') vote you must be high on something. I want what you're high on, too!

All I was trying to convey is that Kerry did a good job tonight. But it won't ultimately be enough to sway me. Kerry is the opposite side of the same coin that Dubya is on. I won't be a party to that.

 

[Mike Works]

God damnit, I actually tried hilighting that thinking it was spoiler text.

 

[Catchpenny]

Holy shit, Mike McCurry looks old. He's aged since the Lewinsky era. I feel old now.

Yeah, I hadn't seen him since he retired as Press Secretary. Had the same reaction. It made me a little sad, I've always liked the guy and he was great in the daily briefings.

 

[Leon]

"My opponent's position [...] is that he keeps changing positions..."

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Just a reminder; polls after the first Bush-Gore debate had Gore in the lead, too. There's still plenty of possibility to twist it into a Bush victory. They'll just have to work a bit harder at it.

 

[Zaptruder]

I remember people attacked Gore because he wore... rouge? during one of the debates.

Besides... Bush is still one of the most illegitimate presidents ever. Not only was the popular vote against him, but due to an error in the ballot system used in a critical state, he managed to get the few needed points on Gore. Otherwise, both the electoral and popular vote would've been in Gore's favour.

 

[RiZ III]

I just saw a rerun. Kerry kicked ass

 

[The Chosen One]

I was hoping Kerry would do well, but at the beginning of the debate he was doing so-so at best. I thought it was pretty even early on with Bush possibly taking a slight lead.

But at the midway mark, things just started going south for Bush. We already know Bush isn't the greatest speaker, but not only did he start to fumble verbally, but also he seemed to lose his composure physically. He got testy and seemed to rebuttal just for the sake of rebutting without saying anything meaningful. Kerry seemed a little off at first, however he always seemed in control. Bush looked uneasy for about 80-90% of the debate. Also, Bush's advisers should have told him not to slouch on the podium. Added with his stuttering and long pauses, he looked very un-presidential. His demeanor seemed a lot more like a popular dumb jock running for 11th grade class president rather someone who wants to continue to lead the free world. I realize Bush is trying to be "likable", but I think he came off looking too simple-minded.

As others pointed out, I thought Kerry made a few crucial mistakes, which I thought Bush would pounce on him for. But for whatever reason, Bush either remained silent or he said, "we shouldn't send mixed messages" for the umpteenth time.

Also, the Jeopardy lights seemed to go against Bush more than Kerry, despite what analyst (and probably the Bush campaign) anticipated. Bush went over the limit several times and a few of the times he didn't go over, it was obvious he had to cut his thought/statement abruptly short. Whereas, Kerry was able to tie up his thoughts and statements on the mark almost everytime. He rarely went over and he rarely had a lot of time left. If I was the Bush campaign, I'd get the lights removed from the rest of the debates. It was stupid to begin with.

I wonder if Bush took this debate for granted. While he has anywhere from a 5-10 point lead in the polls, it's still too close for him not to come to the debates mentally prepared. I just hope he's not like this everyday when he's running our country...

Also, the Bush campaign better not swallow their own spin. They're going around like crazy proclaiming Bush won emphatically. However, in private they need to tell Bush he needs to do dramatically better in these upcoming debates or he'll find himself jobless on January 22nd.

 

[videogamer]

Oh please, someone's bound to get a hold of that pad afterwards and it will be revealed he was drawing little kitten pictures to keep himself entertained and calm.

Heh from another forum:

 

[ConfusingJazz]

From Salon.com

Cha-ching

So far, even typically hostile TV pundits -- and some Republicans, including John McCain just now on CNN -- are saying John Kerry more than held his own against Bush tonight. And apparently Kerry's strong performance has many Americans digging into their pockets. The Kerry campaign just sent this one line email to reporters: "As of 10:41 p.m., the Democratic National Committee is receiving 5 online donations per second."

Wow, thats a lot of donations.

EDIT: Go here to get the free 24 hour pass at Salon.com without seeing ads.

 

[DarienA]

I was already in full support of Kerry before this debate but afterwards I was so impressed because there were a few points that I hoped would be brought up that were:

1. Osama attacked us not Iraq.
2. North Korea and Iran developing nuclear weapons why haven't we done more with them.
3. Why the war had less of an international coalition than the repelling of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.
4. Why Oil Ministry was protected more than other locations.
5. Why approx. 14 military bases are being built.

Just a few things that I thought were HARD points that would come up... Bush failed to adequately comment let alone acknowledge many of them IMO.

One debate isn't going to change everyone's mind but I would hope that it brings this race closer(Polls taken by CNN still show that people think Bush has a better Iraq plan... huh?). I look forward to the next 2 debates.

 

[Cool]

IRAQ IS THE CENTER OF TERRORISM.

 

[Prospero]

Kerry clearly won the debate. But Gore won the debates against Bush in 2000 as well, with calm, reasoned, logically rigorous statements against whatever Bush had to say, which wasn't much. And remember how that turned out. It remains to see how the press decides the debate--the amount of spin I was seeing on the morning news shows was ridiculous.

However, this was the first time I looked at Kerry and thought he actually might make good Presidential material, instead of just being the lesser of two evils.

 

[Overseer]

However, this was the first time I looked at Kerry and thought he actually might make good Presidential material, instead of just being the lesser of two evils.

Very true. Before last night I was wondering which would suck less, but now I am thinking Kerry may make a good president.

 

[Cool]

Kerry clearly won the debate. But Gore won the debates against Bush in 2000 as well, with calm, reasoned, logically rigorous statements against whatever Bush had to say, which wasn't much. And remember how that turned out. It remains to see how the press decides the debate--the amount of spin I was seeing on the morning news shows was ridiculous.

However, this was the first time I looked at Kerry and thought he actually might make good Presidential material, instead of just being the lesser of two evils.

Let's just hope nothing gets fucked up with the Florida votes with ole JEB BUSH.

 

[Overseer]

Let's just hope nothing gets fucked up with the Florida votes with ole JEB BUSH.

QUE?

 

[Diablos]

Que another fucking hurricane right on Jeb's doorstep if they fuck up the votes again, that's what I say.

 

[Prospero]

With billions of dollars in federal aid going into Florida right now for disaster relief, I won't be surprised if the state goes Republican.

 

[Catchpenny]

Living in Florida, I don't know that Bush gets a long-term bump from the hurricanes. People are upset and scared right now, so reassuring words and promises of federal aid sound great. When that aid takes its sweet time getting spread around, and people have been without a home for a couple of months or living with a ruined roof, things will turn more against the status quo.

Considering how many trends in the state favor Kerry, I think he will win the state. That's if Kerry is close or in the lead overall, of course.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

I didn't even see this thread up here.

 

[teiresias]

Yeah, because as we all know, Kerry would have just sent absolutely no money to Florida at all and just said, "tough luck" to those affected by the hurricanes.

 

[Gantz]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/debate.main/index.html

 

[DarienA]

Almost forgot kudos to the moderator for addressing Darfur BTW...

 

[Prospero]

Yeah, because as we all know, Kerry would have just sent absolutely no money to Florida at all and just said, "tough luck" to those affected by the hurricanes.

Well, what Kerry can't do right now is what Bush is doing: going to Florida as often as he can, pledging to hand victims money, and happening to stage photo-ops while he's wandering around ruined orchards with a downcast expression on his face. He's milking the incumbent advantage.

EDIT: and re: the online polls showing a Kerry blowout, they were slammed by visitors to the Daily Kos, so they don't mean much. Major newspaper editorials this morning seem to agree that Kerry won, though--even the most conservative papers called it a draw.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Personally I Kerry open more holes in his plans than before the debate.

The things that bothered me most about his cooments were these subjects:

1. He didn't support the war, oh wait he did, did he ? At first he did, then he didn't, oh wait I'm confused, he chages his mind too much on this subject.
He said he'd go to war as a last resort, but when a President asks congress to go to war, that's the sign of "we're going to war if this is approved". Kerry's simply playing dumb acting like there was going to be another vote later, there's only 1 time the president will ask congress and that was it, Kerry knows that, everyone does.

2. Thinking US voters would believe he's going to sweet talk the very stern North Korean leader Kim Jong Il into turning over thier nuclear weapons after spending billions trying to develope them.

3. Saying he's going to get more support from the UN, when the UN never backed or supported the war, from the beginning the UN said the US was on it's own.

4. Incinuating the oil wells are less of a target than the Nuke plant, knowing full well attacks on the oil wells would put more stress on the US military while an attack on a nuke plant would destroy the entire erea for everyone including the locals making it a total loss for even the terrorists own kind.


Either way I though both made good points at times, I certainly support Kerrys stance on stem cell research.
I llitteraly laughed my ass off the other day when hearing about Jesse Ventura's comments on Bush's stem cell research.
I couldn't find the comments on google, but it went something like this...
"I know Bush loves his jesus, but if he's waiting on jesus to save alzheimer's patients he's going to be waiting a long time seeing as he's not done it yet"

Thing I think both need to do to not look as silly as they both did t times:
Bush needs to stop reacting to negative comments with a look of sarcastic disapointed surprise, and Kerry needs to realise the audience he's addressing is on TV, not the few in the crowd or the speaker, he needs more eye to eye contact with the camera.

 

[The Shadow]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/debate.main/index.html

That about wraps it up for Bush....

 

[gofreak]

That about wraps it up for Bush....

But that's CNN! Them damned liburls! Wait for FoxNews!

 

[gofreak]

Kerry needs to realise the audience he's addressing is on TV, not the few in the crowd or the speaker, he needs more eye to eye contact with the camera.

Actually kinda disagree with this point..not saying he was making eye contact with the camera, but I'm not sure if he/they should.

 

[Cool]

But that's CNN! Them damned liburls! Wait for FoxNews!

I find CNN to be pretty balanced.

 

[DarienA]

If I may...

1. He didn't support the war, oh wait he did, did he ? At first he did, then he didn't, oh wait I'm confused, he chages his mind too much on this subject.
He said he'd go to war as a last resort, but when a President asks congress to go to war, that's the sign of "we're going to war if this is approved". Kerry's simply playing dumb acting like there was going to be another vote later, there's only 1 time the president will ask congress and that was it, Kerry knows that, everyone does.

Kerry has always said he supported that we need to go to war in Iraq... he however has also said that he questioned the timing and used the example of the lack of international support vs the support we had when we repelled the invasion of Kuwait.

2. Thinking US voters would believe he's going to sweet talk the very stern North Korean leader Kim Jong Il into turning over thier nuclear weapons after spending billions trying to develope them.

North Korea wants aid this has been in newspapers for so long now I didn't realize people did not know this.. North Korea also wants to speak directly to us about that aid and put together a deal package that gives them aid as they "drill down" their development plans... the US insists that the weapons plans must stop FIRST. Do a news search for the words North Korea US aid to see various articles on the subject.

3. Saying he's going to get more support from the UN, when the UN never backed or supported the war, from the beginning the UN said the US was on it's own.

Bush basically told the UN that you cannot be involved in the rebuilding of Iraq, you cannot bid for contracts for rebuilding Iraq if you did not participate in the invasion i.e. send troops. The UN has offered to support the aftermatch of the war the period we are now in.

4. Incinuating the oil wells are less of a target than the Nuke plant, knowing full well attacks on the oil wells would put more stress on the US military while an attack on a nuke plant would destroy the entire erea for everyone including the locals making it a total loss for even the terrorists own kind.

The problem is perception, what are one of the reasons people use to say the US went to Iraq? Oil... what examples do they use to show this as their "proof" how much emphasis has been placed on guarding oil related facilities.... now whether it's actually true or not is a different thing... the problem here as I said is perception.

 

[Catchpenny]

Daily Kos wasn't the only site, left-wing or right, that was encouraging people to slam the polls. That sort of thing tends to sort itself out. Unless one side is feeling a lot more motivated after the debate.

 

[Makura]

I find CNN to be pretty balanced.

I agree. CNN has been doing very well recently. The coverage on the debate at cnn.com is very balanced.

 

[Makura]

"Deliciously fat pitches split the plate and the President’s bat remained on his shoulder."

- Ronald Wieck

This perfectly describes my reaction to the debate. Kerry spoke well, but his points were weak and fallacious - and surprisingly went unchallenged for the most part.

 

[DarienA]

- Ronald Wieck

This perfectly describes my reaction to the debate. Kerry spoke well, but his points were weak and fallacious - and surprisingly went unchallenged for the most part.

And at the end of the night, Bush remained the man who would always defend America; Kerry, the man who would have to clear it with Jacques Chirac.

Can Mr. Weick (since so many other folks seem to not be able to tell me these days) tell me how attacking Iraq defended America?


EDIT:

Don't know where you can watch it but you can read it here

 

[Doc Holliday]

Can i watch this anywhere online? C-span seems to have it but its down right now.

 

[Makura]

Can i watch this anywhere online? C-span seems to have it but its down right now.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/01/debate.main/index.html

Scroll down. I haven't tested the links.

 

[DarienA]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/01/debate.main/index.html

Scroll down. I haven't tested the links.

Those links require you to sign up for a 14 day trial of Real One Pass IIRC.

You can at least read the full transcript:

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=71504

 

[Doc Holliday]

www.washingtonpost.com

Realplayer stream