-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Opinion: The Order 1886 deserves* a sequel
- Thread starter BiGBoSSMk23
- Start date
Nope, it really doesn't. The gameplay (i.e. stuff that isn't press forward to walk slowly) is nothing, in my first normal difficulty playthrough a few weeks ago I felt like I was on autopilot and even the fleeting moments where you get a cool weapon are just that, fleeting.
The story, which is really all this game has going for it, is both incredibly cliched and way too serious which just leads to what I can safely call pretentiousness. Some of the dialogue is decent but outside of that practically every character fits into a pre-defined archetype and, since this is a super-serious thriller, there's no room for parody or comedy within them. Then there's all the massive plot holes, such as the infamous example where
along with a multitude of others. You also have the scene near the start where "old bearded leader" tells The Order, in a regular company meeting, what their entire purpose is as if they've never heard it before. Finally there's the ending and epilogue which are the most sequel-bait thing I have ever seen; the story literally goes unresolved because they thought Sony would fund an 1887 straight away, that's pretentiousness. That is on top of having perhaps the most cliched, student Tarantino wannabe-tier ending of
So that leaves the two decent aspects of the game; the very basic premise and the graphics, if you took both of those and pretty much rebooted the entire series you may be able to get something alright. I honestly don't think that the faint chance that an Order 1887 (or just "The Order" if you're doing a reboot) might be good is worth $60-$80m.
The story, which is really all this game has going for it, is both incredibly cliched and way too serious which just leads to what I can safely call pretentiousness. Some of the dialogue is decent but outside of that practically every character fits into a pre-defined archetype and, since this is a super-serious thriller, there's no room for parody or comedy within them. Then there's all the massive plot holes, such as the infamous example where
Galahad shoots tens of 'innocent men' after explicitly saying he will not do that
gunshot fade to black.
So that leaves the two decent aspects of the game; the very basic premise and the graphics, if you took both of those and pretty much rebooted the entire series you may be able to get something alright. I honestly don't think that the faint chance that an Order 1887 (or just "The Order" if you're doing a reboot) might be good is worth $60-$80m.
Salz01
Member
Out of all the new IPs I played this gen, besides blood borne, I'd be the most excited for a sequel to this. I still play it time to time, it just needs more enemy encounters and tighter pacing. The lore, ambiance,characters, and graphics are great. I wish it would get a pro patch to boot.
BigEmil
Junior Member
That's strange
lightskintwin
Banned
What's strange?
itshutton
Member
I only played this a couple of months ago and I must say, I thought it was excellent. If you look at successful IPs like Uncharted, Assassin's Creed etc, the first games always show the potential but aren't quite the finished article.
I would replace the Werewolf QTE's with some more exciting gameplay, tweak the shooting and allow real running. Then I think you potentially have a masterpiece, particularly if they manage to flesh out the lore. Who knows, maybe introduce another type of half-breed.
I would replace the Werewolf QTE's with some more exciting gameplay, tweak the shooting and allow real running. Then I think you potentially have a masterpiece, particularly if they manage to flesh out the lore. Who knows, maybe introduce another type of half-breed.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
If the story bits were a movie it would have made me fall asleep. The writing is dull and the plot is predictable. It's very average fare, like that Paul WS Anderson Three Musketeers movie.
The gameplay is below average third person shooter action. Games like Mass Effect 2 and Gears of War are vastly better and more satisfying.
I do commend the game for its execution and astonishing graphics. They're truly breathtaking. But nothing about the game itself impressed me. It was all flourish and execution.
But I suppose now that I consider it, I'd rather have another The Order game than more derivative bland worlds. They'd really have to step up their game though.
The gameplay is below average third person shooter action. Games like Mass Effect 2 and Gears of War are vastly better and more satisfying.
I do commend the game for its execution and astonishing graphics. They're truly breathtaking. But nothing about the game itself impressed me. It was all flourish and execution.
But I suppose now that I consider it, I'd rather have another The Order game than more derivative bland worlds. They'd really have to step up their game though.
Uncharted and Assassin's Creed had some issues but still allowed for lot's of interesting fun gameplay.
The Order is a limited, dull, restrictive, unoriginal, boring, badly paced, poorly written, terribly designed, short, unskippable cutscene ridden mess.
There is nothing redeeming about it aside from the graphics.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Setting and aesthetic wise open world games have never been this diverse. Compare the New Bordeaux in Mafia III to WD2's rendition of San Francisco or Far Cry Primal's prehistoric location or The Division's New York. Tons of different atmospheres. The Order 1886 seriously represented so many things that were wrong linear third person shooters.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I was mainly thinking of The Order's other TPS contemporaries. I'm getting tired of the "Indiana Jones adventure" of Uncharted and Tomb Raider as well as the "grim dark future" of Gears of War. I still haven't bought GOW4, even though I really like the gameplay of that series.
I agree that open worlds are very diverse. I never said otherwise.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
They should do a CG-movie a la Resident Evil Degeneration.
lightskintwin
Banned
What about Quantum Break?
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I haven't played it, but I will once it drops to a good price or there's a demo so I can be sure it'll run on my PC.
As far as all of the media I consume is concerned, Quantum Break is about as average as you can get (it's basically a sci-fi TV show, some Netflix Original, or a decently budgeted indie sci-fi movie). But I'm willing to give it a go in game form, partially because I like stuff like that.
I really loved the setting especially due to amazing engine and visuals. To be honest instead of TPS wanna be it could had been a great adventure game. Seems like engine was limiting them when it comes to gameplay. It's obvious that to get those visuals gameplay needed to be sacrificed to small corridors etc. But then ah it should had been an mysery adventure set in that era.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Resident Evil Degeneration is a terrible film with pretty shitty animation/CGI so no they really shouldn't.
The IP has a lot of potential, and I would love to see more games in this universe. That and this game has the most realistic graphics I have ever seen and will for a while. I hold the opinion that in order to succeed you need to be able to fail and learn from mistakes and I think they certainly deserve an opportunity to learn from mistakes. Ask any developer and you will know that launching an original IP is the single most hardest thing to do.
They not only had the pressure of making a good game which is the most difficult you can imagine, they also had to launch a new IP on top of this which definitely can take away focus from areas that might needed a bit more
I always cringe hard when I see people trash on years of hard work like this, thinking "man if only they would had a different team" These games are team efforts with thousands of variables, and for most you can never fully control the outcome no matter how hard you want to and to just say something like that tells me most of you have no clue what you are talking about.
Read post postmortems on gamesutra, or for example read up on the development of uncharted or the last of us where up until months before release the game was absolute shit. These aren't just cute stories to boast but this demonstrates the unstable nature of game development. There are just too many possibilities and most of them you cant just tick a box for.
Sure, things could have gone a bit different with a bit more focus here instead of here. all development has problems, this isn't a choice between good or bad development. this is simply development that either turns out good or turns out bad. Changing a team makes little difference.
I am just grateful the team did something very brave and launched a new IP and I think they should be celebrated for that instead of being ripped upon by people who clearly have never developed anything in their lives.
They not only had the pressure of making a good game which is the most difficult you can imagine, they also had to launch a new IP on top of this which definitely can take away focus from areas that might needed a bit more
I always cringe hard when I see people trash on years of hard work like this, thinking "man if only they would had a different team" These games are team efforts with thousands of variables, and for most you can never fully control the outcome no matter how hard you want to and to just say something like that tells me most of you have no clue what you are talking about.
Read post postmortems on gamesutra, or for example read up on the development of uncharted or the last of us where up until months before release the game was absolute shit. These aren't just cute stories to boast but this demonstrates the unstable nature of game development. There are just too many possibilities and most of them you cant just tick a box for.
Sure, things could have gone a bit different with a bit more focus here instead of here. all development has problems, this isn't a choice between good or bad development. this is simply development that either turns out good or turns out bad. Changing a team makes little difference.
I am just grateful the team did something very brave and launched a new IP and I think they should be celebrated for that instead of being ripped upon by people who clearly have never developed anything in their lives.
Agreed. I had a blast playing it, really, although I only borrowed my friend's copy so I didn't have that nagging feeling behind my head of whether it was worth the $60 or not. The gameplay wasn't anything special at all, but I love me some cover-based third-person shooters, so I was satisfied. I didn't expect it to be special in that regard anyway, so my expectations weren't too high nor too low. To be fair, though, the melee was weak as hell. "Boss fights" were pretty shit too. What I loved the most, though, was the setting and premise. It was intriguing and I would really love to see more of Sir Gallahad's story and find out what happens next. That, and all the other half-breeds. They teased us with the... shit, which did we have in the game? Werewolves or vampires? I think it was the former? Yeah. They teased us with vampires, which I didn't even consider to exist in this universe, so knowing that they do means others could as well, so I'd love to see more of the half-breeds in any potential sequel.
Something that I think could really help is if they didn't give us any chapters that were solely cutscenes and walking around. If they lessened the number of chapters in order to put together combat-less chapters with action-filled chapters or something, I think less people would have been dissatisfied with the length and whatnot. Of course, that could end up with the presentation looking messy, so I wouldn't suggest that for the first game but for potential sequels. For them to better plan and pace things.
Having us play with a lot more of their neat little toys and gadgets would be great too. It was exciting to use the thermite rifle and arc gun, etc. but I expected more weapons and gadgets. More open combat scenarios would certainly help too, as opposed to the rigid "corridors" we have in the game.
Something that I think could really help is if they didn't give us any chapters that were solely cutscenes and walking around. If they lessened the number of chapters in order to put together combat-less chapters with action-filled chapters or something, I think less people would have been dissatisfied with the length and whatnot. Of course, that could end up with the presentation looking messy, so I wouldn't suggest that for the first game but for potential sequels. For them to better plan and pace things.
Having us play with a lot more of their neat little toys and gadgets would be great too. It was exciting to use the thermite rifle and arc gun, etc. but I expected more weapons and gadgets. More open combat scenarios would certainly help too, as opposed to the rigid "corridors" we have in the game.
Shai-Tan
Banned
I played this recently. The graphics are fantastic and I'm a little bit sad there is no Pro patch. The combat arenas on the other hand were quite frustrating. They went on and on to the point that I would kill myself out of boredom (rushing) which led to frustration about repeating the entire encounter (probably intentional to keep the completion time longer than 4 hours), sometimes several times due to their poor checkpointing (they even have a few moronic instances of a dude hiding behind the checkpoint door instantly killing you with a shotgun). And in the end it seems unfinished consdering the plot stops on a completely uninteresting cliffhanger visually aping/implying the birth of a batman-esque hero/antihero after repeating a boss fight from earlier in the game.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Whenever I see people say this game had a good story and characters, I always think back to that Previously Recorded review. They start ripping on talking about the story about here. That and the rest of the review sums up how I feel about the game. It's a shame, because I REALLY liked the premise and setting.
They can solve almost all the problems of OG game has the lack of gameplay variety,content etc.Story (not the way that they handled),world and charecters are really interesting IMO.
This deserves a sequel.
A New Graphical Benchmark - The Order 1886
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1005928
This deserves a sequel.
A New Graphical Benchmark - The Order 1886
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1005928
Fachasaurus
Member
E3 2017.
Comfort Jones
Banned
"Graphics deserve a sequel" the thread.
The only interesting thing it had going for it to me was the story and they completely flubbed that aspect. Game looked nice but I didn't enjoy playing it at all. Even with the one cool weapon they had the enemy encounters were largely terrible. Let's not even talk about their use of Werewolves.
I'm not going to say it shouldn't get a sequel but they'd have to expand on the original considerably to get me to play it. People harp on about the jump between Assassins Creed 1 and 2 but in the end while flawed I still really enjoyed playing 1 at the time.
I'm not going to say it shouldn't get a sequel but they'd have to expand on the original considerably to get me to play it. People harp on about the jump between Assassins Creed 1 and 2 but in the end while flawed I still really enjoyed playing 1 at the time.
Maybe you could actually have some decent werewolf fights in the sequel. Seriously, it's absurd how in a game with the central premise of an organization made to fight supernatural creatures, you fight hundreds of dudes with guns and maybe 10 werewolves... And the werewolf fights suck!
Comfort Jones
Banned
But it had werewolves and it looked pretty so it DESERVES a sequel! Never mind that the game fucking sucked and prob didn't sell as well as they hoped and basically every element of its presentation outside of the graphics needs to just be scrapped and redone to actually make proper use of this supposedly imaginative setting.
In my opinion it absolutely does not deserve a sequel.
I'd love to see another game with a similar setting.
I'd love to see another game using the incredible graphics engine.
But The Order 1886 does absolutely not 'deserve' a direct sequel. The gameplay was unremarkable, the writing was extremely poor and my god the ending was a complete disaster in every respect. They ignored the opportunity to do anything interesting with the cool setting and the copy-pasting of the QTE fights was almost insulting.
Sure, the guns felt good, but that in itself does not earn a sequel. Other games have guns that feel good too. Guns that feel good are not tied to this IP.
A reboot? Maybe. A spiritual sequel? Maybe. A direct sequel? No.
If it does end up getting a direct sequel and it turns out to be good, I'll happily play it, but even then I will still believe that The Order 1886 did not deserve a sequel as it did nothing to earn it.
I feel like the people that think this game should get a sequel are judging this game more for what it could have been than for what it actually was.
I'd love to see another game with a similar setting.
I'd love to see another game using the incredible graphics engine.
But The Order 1886 does absolutely not 'deserve' a direct sequel. The gameplay was unremarkable, the writing was extremely poor and my god the ending was a complete disaster in every respect. They ignored the opportunity to do anything interesting with the cool setting and the copy-pasting of the QTE fights was almost insulting.
Sure, the guns felt good, but that in itself does not earn a sequel. Other games have guns that feel good too. Guns that feel good are not tied to this IP.
A reboot? Maybe. A spiritual sequel? Maybe. A direct sequel? No.
If it does end up getting a direct sequel and it turns out to be good, I'll happily play it, but even then I will still believe that The Order 1886 did not deserve a sequel as it did nothing to earn it.
I feel like the people that think this game should get a sequel are judging this game more for what it could have been than for what it actually was.
FTFY
SolidusDave
Member
Would have loved a sequel that deals with the shipped vampires, with levels in various locations in the steampunk Commonwealth. Especially their take on India, (bonus if featuring the same strong, non-sexualized, non-white female character from the first game).
lightskintwin
Banned
Despite it being a bog standard TPS when you actually had control, I think it's biggest mistake was basing the combat around bog standard TPS weapons like pistol, assault rifle, shotgun, and sniper rifle; when the game should've been built around the more interesting science weapons that you only get to use in limited sections, like the lightning gun, thermite rifle, grenade launcher, and bazooka. You could've built more interesting enemy encounters, destructible environments needed to defeat certain enemies or bosses, and gameplay scenarios including puzzles that required either or a combination of fire, electricity, or explosions to solve.
So much wasted potential on a great premise.
So much wasted potential on a great premise.
Sqrt_minus_one
Member
I never played the game but its one of the few that I actually watched a walkthrough from beginning to end - I thought the setting and the lore were amazing.
On the other hand I also agree with this post - they need to come back with an excellent core gameplay loop. How you fight with the werewolves/humans/vampires. If they get that down - think it will be a great sequel/reboot.
clarknova156
Member
Nah. Great graphics but that was all. Take the engine and use it but ditch that story and gameplay.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
This game was Ready At Dawn's fuck you to anyone who played it. Such a bad, unpolished, and completely lacking game, especially gameplay wise.
DrunkShogun
Member
I think it deserves a second attempt but that's only due to the potential of the games setting. Wouldn't require major gameplay changes and to correct all the errors in the first game. Whether it's worth the effort is on Sony.
I feel like the game would have gone more in that direction if it wasn't rushed out. Sony kinda sent it out to die because they needed more first party games on the shelves. It probably should have been an early 2016 game instead of an early 2015 game.
I guess NeoGAF mods have gone full alt-fact mode.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1174583
They have invested a lot in the initial technology and assets, Sony has a good history of cultivating IPs even if they dont take off the first go around and I think it would make a good replacement for the Uncharted series in the 3rd person action/shooter.
I hope they learn from the criticism of the first game, theres definitely potential there.
I hope they learn from the criticism of the first game, theres definitely potential there.
lightskintwin
Banned
No amount of time would've saved it, Sony gave RAD a major delay. The game was fundamentally flawed in its design from the start.
This is fake news. You should be ashamed.