Support NeoGAF

[F4r0_Atak]

As much as I kinda liked the original game, I would definitely be interested in seeing a sequel to The Order: 1886. Hopefully, SCE will realize the potential of the IP and that it needs two things first... renew/change the way the public/journalist perceive the IP and its game direction (as a franchise). Two things that could be "fixed" if handled by another developer.

Two routes are possible...

Full-on Third-Person Shooter:
- Studio(s) I would consider due to their "knowledge" in that field: Sony Bend (TPS experience), Guerilla Cambridge (they are very good at revamping/refreshing IPs), SSM (with Cory Barlog as the CD).
- The initial premise released in 2012 gave the vibe of a co-op action/horror game with Gears of War kind of gameplay. They should do and build level design around the idea that two people could work together across an entire game, whether in single player or co-op. It would leave more room and options for puzzle solving, platforming and encounters.
- Have a proper Creative Director and a separate Writer, both working together. As the CD will deal with the overall experience (art+gameplay) and the writer with world building and characters development and interactions. The CD of the first game didn't have a clue on how to do both at the same time (same thing goes for David Cage, now has two separate writers for his next game).
- Do not do a full open-world (risk of boring/filler side-quests are too high).
- A more open-areas kind of approach (ala TLOU or Uncharted 4) could be one of the keys to help with the pacing and encounter problems the original had.
- Give QTEs more meaningful purposes (ending each phase of boss battle, environment hazards, falling, etc). Not stuff like opening doors... :/
- Diversify weapons and loadouts. As you progress, the first game's world shows that it is built around the idea that you have a tech guy (Tesla) bringing you new toys/gadgets and weapons. It would be nice to customize our loadouts before going on a "mission".
- Branching storyline... it would be interesting since Galahad's current situation is not entirely black or white (well... as perceived from the first title). Depending on how Uncharted 4 deals with this, it could be a good way to bring players' input into their vision of the story.
- Branching level design... multiple paths but one common goal/objective. Give player freedom/agency in how they proceed their story/missions could benefit the IP to regain its status as a proper game, through player's agency.
- Better and more diverse encounters. The main problem with the first game was the uneven pacing of its level design due to the structure of the several boring encounters.
- Better use the unique natures of these new-age weapons (Arc Gun, Thermite Rifle, etc) in the level design and enemy encounters (got hints of that with The Thermite weapon when you shoot that metal structure).
- Better Close-Quarter-Combat system... In the first game, you never get to use your knife except on a few occasions (alpha half-breed encounters).
- Better Stealth system... no BS like once spotted insta-failed occurs thingy.
- A proper combat behaviour for the different type of Half-Breed, especially the Werewolves. They should be more feral and aggressive, which should portrayed in their combat patterns and animations. No more scary babies that bails the moment they see you... :/


Full-on Cinematic Adventure Game (ala Telltale or Until Dawn):
- Studio(s) I would consider due to their "knowledge" in that field: Supermassive Games.
- Have a proper Creative Director and a separate Writer, both working together. As the CD will deal with the overall experience (art+gameplay) and the writer with world building and characters development and interactions. The CD of the first game didn't have a clue on how to do both at the same time (same thing goes for David Cage, now has two separate writers for his next game).
- More meaningful encounters with the half-breeds

Spoiler

and The Order since they are the main "enemies"

.
- Fix the behaviour Isabeau developed through the last half of the original game. Jealousy or a bitch attitude shouldn't be the source of her anger, especially after knowing Galahad for so long. To me, it seemed really weird and out of place, since she would most likely know Galahad better than that. :/
- Start briefly (and I mean it) with London, then explore the different sources of the Half-Breeds (India, Germany and USA).
- Delivered as episodic titles (ala TellTale games or Life is Strange). It would help lower the scope and the budget needed for this IP.

It needs a game director. Everything else is top notch but it needs someone that knows how to make an engaging experience. The artistry was unreal. It looks incredible, I just wish the game design was more open...

That's the creative director's job, to unify the experience of the player across a game, from an art (music, visuals, art direction, etc) and gameplay perspective. The Game Director is there to assure that the levels design and the game mechanics fits with the CD's vision of the game.

No...... a Reboot of the Order 1886 instead, with a different developer

Honestly, a sequel-first would be more useful than a reboot to "fix" some of the plots issues... that and the weak gameplay elements.

 

[KC Denton]

This is possibly one of the dumbest replies ever addressed to me on GAF.

In case you're somehow serious: Why so negative? Because if The Order is being compared to a gallery, it's a really overpriced and mediocre gallery. I could get into a real art gallery full of competent art for a third of the cost.

It's copypasta from the review thread.

 

[hooijdonk17]

OP doesn't deserve an opinion.

 

[Daniel R]

Sure it deserves a sequel. The story is not finished!

But please:

1. Make it less reliant on QTE.
2. Make it 50% longer.
3. Less talking, bigger set pieces and bosses.

 

[Arondight]

This is possibly one of the dumbest replies ever addressed to me on GAF.

In case you're somehow serious: Why so negative? Because if The Order is being compared to a gallery, it's a really overpriced and mediocre gallery. I could get into a real art gallery full of competent art for a third of the cost.

I remember this quote from a while back in another thread. That was hilarious to read.

Since I've been non-stop shitting on this game for over a year, I figure I might as well say what I actually feel it did well and what I did like about it.

Nearly every Order thread I've ever seen I must say lol.

I think it's a game that sequel is incredibly unlikely. Gameplay was rarely well received from the moment they first showed it and up till it's release it really relied on Story and lore to help alleviate it's poor reception that ended up falling flat. It's a game that succeeds in neither game play nor good story telling which are basically the two most important aspects of games.

 

[Rymuth]

Its deserve a prequel first, so we can understand the story and see caracters development!

The Pre-order?

 

[Frag Waffles]

The foundation was there, but that's about it. It needed better writers for a compelling story and better game designers for engaging gameplay. Shame because the graphics, world atmosphere and even tight controls were there.

 

[level1]

Completely agree. I've actually grown quite fond of the game and think there's loads of potential for a sequel.

 

[-tetsuo-]

its a shooting game.

Encounter design that was not terrible.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

It's copypasta from the review thread.

Oh thank God.

Whoever said that and really meant it was a real tool. Holy cow. People are weird.

 

[OléGunner]

Yeah it needs a sequel even though we'll never get it.

With more distance from release I can comfortably say I enjoyed the game quite a bit more than others but it has some notable flaws that need correcting.

Better Lycan fights, better set pieces and more variety in enemy firefights would elevate the game automatically.

I like the OP's parallels of KZ1-->KZ2.
I never played KZ1 but it seems it was generally panned but Guerilla got another chance and KZ2 came out and turned to be a magnificent shooter, one of my all time favourites too.

Doubt RAD would get another go but maybe another studio in a couple years if Sony owns the engine technology could churn out something much more realised.

 

[lebowski4ever]

awful game...but one that paid the price in terms of gameplay because of the graphics..similar to finding a beautiful women only to find she's thick as pigs shit..

 

[UnluckyKate]

yeah give me a sequel and a prequel in india during Gallahad's younger days

 

[Possumowner]

I thought I'd hate,yet when I played it I actually enjoyed it.A sequel would need to be longer obviously and also far less reliant on QTE.So yeah I'd like a sequel.

 

[revolverjgw]

The presentation is superb and I love the world and characters. Shooting people felt good, so the foundation for a good shooter is there, but RAD had no idea how to design a compelling level or measure the pacing. I'm willing to give them a chance since they've made games with these qualities before. Got to figure out how to nail it within the context of a third person shooter, don't let this world go to waste.

 

[bone_and_sinew]

Why not just give the sequel to Naughty Dog?

 

[yanipheonu]

I've never seen a game destroyed by trying to be "cinematic" more than the Order.

I always thought it should have been a series of monster hunts. Just a bunch of levels were you spend the time trying to track down a monster. Like a more involved and cinematic Witcher 3. Build up time looking at tracks and evidence as a way of showcasing their levels, then really concentrate on a good monster battle as a pay off. It doesn't have to be Character Action or Bloodborne, but I think we can all agree that QTEs and those lame werewolf fights were not a great solution.

 

[Coll1der]

I would love to see a sequel in any shape or form. I thought that the game could be easily 7/10 and didn't deserve all the hate.

 

[biglittleps]

Sure it deserves a sequel. The story is not finished!

But please:

1. Make it less reliant on QTE.
2. Make it 50% longer.
3. Less talking, bigger set pieces and bosses.

This. It had great potential and was rushed. So the sequel can solve the problems and can become a great franchise if handled properly based on feedback. Hope Sony listens to the fans and also they spent good amount of money on this IP, so I believe we will see one more game at the end of this generation.

 

[Kosma]

Game was good fun,would love to see it fleshed out.

Next to the great graphics the world and writing were sublime, as was the sound design

 

[d9b]

I enjoyed it and would buy a sequel.

 

[Big_Al]

I really enjoyed the first game and would definitely love a sequel. Would be very interested to see where they go and expand with a sequel. Just give me more time with that wonderful shotgun.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

This is possibly one of the dumbest replies ever addressed to me on GAF.

In case you're somehow serious: Why so negative? Because if The Order is being compared to a gallery, it's a really overpriced and mediocre gallery. I could get into a real art gallery full of competent art for a third of the cost.

THE SUN NEVER SETS ON THE JOURNALIST EMPIRE

 

[yurinka]

I really liked the game, it was so fucking great in many areas. Yes, had some flaws, but I think it should be easy for them to fix them in a sequel.

 

[OléGunner]

Why not just give the sequel to Naughty Dog?

ND are far more interested in cultivating their own IP.

Plus I need my space sci-fi game before they touch anyone else's work

Spoiler

or TLOU2.

 

[Kosma]

You'd fight an uphill battle selling a sequel when the first game was as widely and badly panned as The Order was. It's a shame really. You could compare it to Lair on the PS3 which also would have been a great concept for a franchise.

Still sold better then Rise of the Tomb Raider so there is hope

 

[T.O.P]

There are other games that are much more worthy of a sequel than this thing

At least it left an amazing review thread lol

 

[shadowfall]

I have a feeling there will be a sequel. I would like to get some numbers around Sales. I hope the game sold atleast 500K copies globally.

Game has issues but I really enjoyed playing it. This and Knack are two games which I finished and had fun playing it but most people seem to despise it.

 

[Exodust]

Why must every game be forced into some narrow genre box of your devising? What total fascist nonsense.

lol,

Pretty sure that was not what he was saying. Calm down, fella.

 

[Nerix]

Absolutely agreed. I enjoyed my playthrough very much, the atmosphere, graphics and production values are top notch.

A sequel could improve gameplay and dive more deeply into the universe.

Andrea Pessino (CTO of RaD) is also on gaf (nick: Itacud). Asked him once, he said a sequel is totally up to Sony... So lets write shu / Adam

 

[Psychoward]

The gameplay isn't even good. Sure the actual shooting mechanics are serviceable but other than that it falls apart. Forced stealth sections with insta failing, poor level design, poor enemy spawning and AI, poor pacing, poor weapon variety, dodge being contextual and only tied to Lycan encounters instead of being in the base gameplay, average story, poor cover movement. The people who say the game could magically be better by reversing the amount of cutscenes and gameplay are delusional. The only good thing the game had going for it were the production values.

 

[SprachBrooks]

I would definitely be down for a sequel and I greatly enjoyed what I played. Of course, a caveat to this was that I did not pay full price for it, nevertheless if the sequel was fully fleshed out and incorporated more complex gameplay elements and expanded on the story to a satisfactory end, then I'd be there day one.

 

[Myggen]

I would rather that dev do something different tbh. Didn't like The Order and I frankly don't see much of a potential for a sequel there.

 

[lherre]

Yes! We need a sequel desperately. This is the franchise that has the most untapped potential of this generation IMO. Imagine a second game featuring:
- 2-3 hour longer campaign
- a co-op mode for a few hours
- online MP
- interesting world more fleshed out
- better use of boss fights
- enemy encounter to be a bit more interesting, it felt like a last gen game in this regard

The guns feel good, atmosphere is one of the best out there, VA is top notch, characters are all interesting and the world is ripe with intrigue (Tesla needs more screen time), music is great, graphics are still the best, and theme/concept is very unique.

This

 

[Alkastelca]

Dat fucking statue tho

It's fantastic.

And The Art of Order 1886 artbook is also pretty good.

Will buy the sequel day1.

 

[danmaku]

It deserves a better writer. RAD managed to waste every interesting bit of the setting with a story that goes nowhere without a single decent character. It feels like it was written by a 3rd rate hollywood bot. I'm talking about the story because it looked like their n°1 priority and there's nothing wrong about that, if you can deliver a good story. Except they didn't so the whole game fell apart.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Just take the extra few steps and make The Order 1887 a movie, wouldn't have to change much.

 

[Alkastelca]

Mandatory reload gif:

 

[nib95]

Mandatory reload gif:

All about that shotgun.

 

[Rymuth]

Mandatory reload gif:

All about that shotgun.

Pffft~ Revolver says get on my level, folks

 

[Officerrob]

Nah, flush that turd down the toilet.

 

[SomTervo]

I noticed you didn't mention gameplay. I think that is the problem with the GAME.

The gameplay is for the most part excellent.

It's just over before it really gains momentum.

 

[Alkastelca]

All about that shotgun.

I prefer the arc rifle:

Seriously all weapons felt so good and were fun to use. Too bad you only use some once in the game and never again...

 

[Roussow]

I'm quite thrown off by people saying the game relied to much on qte's. I really didn't think they were all that bad, it's only that one stealth section that frustrates if you can't get down the timing. Beyond that, there are a few rather interesting variants on qte's, moving the stick to different options, it reminded me of Shadow of Mordor's near death mini-game. They could be even more interesting if you were to get more options to select, giving variation to these mini-games (I don't even want to call them qte's, they're a little more interesting.

I also should note, I don't think the length of the game is the problem, a game sub-six hours isn't necessarily problematic on it's own, but The Order left a bunch of threads really open, it's begging for a sequel, there isn't really much closure, it really could have used a more elaborate third act. Even if they didn't want to

Spoiler

kill off their Vampire big bad

, they could've concluded stronger.

 

[supernormal]

I think there's enough to improve upon. The shooting mechanics were solid they just need better designed encounters and battles. To me the game never really delivered a payoff. The boss battle(s) and the Lycan encounters where pure copy paste each time, it would have been better to vary those moments drastically. It's also really disappointing that the story and writing were subpar when that's what the hype was about the whole time.

 

[Psychoward]

The gameplay is for the most part excellent.

It's just over before it really gains momentum.

What did you like about the gameplay besides the actual shooting? It pales in comparison to its direct competition ala Vanquish, Gears of War and Max Payne 3 from an AI, encounter design, movement, level design and overall mechanic standpoint.


Hell even Mass Effect 3 which has clunkier movement at least allows you to roll in a non contextual standing and has a ton more weapon variety along with the draw of all the powers and more enemy variety and open levels.

 

[TiM3_4_P4iN]

i enjoyed the game as well, but for a sequel they should first do a longer campaign and second add something that will either increase the replayability or maybe a coop mode

the gmae was way too short and if you played it one time it's over, no motivation to play it a second time

 

[Roussow]

What did you like about the gameplay besides the actual shooting? It pales in comparison to its direct competition ala Vanquish, Gears of War and Max Payne 3 from an AI, encounter design, movement, level design and overall mechanic standpoint.


Hell even Mass Effect 3 which has clunkier movement at least allows you to roll in a non contextual standing and has a ton more weapon variety along with the draw of all the powers.

You just named a few of the best third person shooters available, it might not be as good as those mentioned (with the exception of ME3), but it's still extremely satisfying, and shooting has great visual and auditory feedback. It's incredibly well executed, if unambitious.

 

[Psychoward]

You just named a few of the best third person shooters available, it might not be as good as those mentioned (with the exception of ME3), but it's still extremely satisfying, and shooting has great visual and auditory feedback.

I just named some of the ONLY third person shooters available. The only major ones I'm missing are Uncharted which I haven't played yet and Binary Domain which is also better than The Order but I forgot about it until this post. And yes I'd argue that ME3 is a better overall gameplay experience than The Order.

I just don't see the point in having a sequel where it's clear they don't understand what good gameplay entails. Like okay great shooting feels nice too bad there isn't a single other remarkable thing about the gameplay. They tied rolling to a QTE for only one enemy for crying out loud. I thought that long fight against the Rebels with the marquis might have had infinitely respawning enemies because it dragged on for so long and you could clearly see the enemies coming out of their spawn points again and again. There's a gif floating around that shows this. When the frequency of encounters is as low as it was it's just hilarious that the few encounters that exist are mostly poor.

 

[HassanJamal]

Sure, but make it less, less like its first outing and make it more something like The Last of Us/Uncharted. Story wise, its basically the Resistance of this generation so yeah, I'm interested to see what else exist in this universe. We've already got Werewolves and

Spoiler

Vampires

, bring on the whole other monstrous bunch. Plus being able to use more The Order weapons is a bonus.