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[Jobbs]

Rad needs to make a game not a movie next time.

Despite how much I make fun of TO, I do sorta like it, and I appreciate that they used a fantasy setting in a high budget, cutting edge shooter. I do.

My main complaint doesn't have to do with QTE or a bad story or cliched characters. I just want them to have some more fun with it. Let's shoot some monsters, let's fight

Spoiler

vampires

, let's take on

Spoiler

Dracula

in an epic showdown! It's potentially all very silly and fun, so let's do it! They handled it too seriously and they didn't let us do anything fun, we just shoot gun toting humans the whole time. Fighting vanilla humans should be the first act of the game, and then after that things should just become insane! There was a lot of squandered potential here.

 

[farmerboy]

I agree with you Rapier, almost to the letter. But.......

Quite how this game got so hijacked by the negativity surrounding the letterboxing "issue" astounded me. It became toxic very quickly to the point the game was on a hiding to nothing by the time it got released.

Then it didn't help that the story, pacing and enemy encounters were absolute average fare. End result, the game became a laughing stock.

I agree with your points in the OP that there is still great potential with the game and it's lore. I just can't see them overcoming the negativity of where they are at now.

I'd love to see Sony have the balls to back this in one more time.

RaD delivered a competent game overall. I'm still interested in what they produce next doesn't matter what it is.

 

[Jobbs]

RaD delivered a competent game overall. I'm still interested in what they produce next doesn't matter what it is.

The quality of the graphics is undeniably amazing and they deserve high praise for it. I just wish they made a more interesting and fun game with it. I hope they get another shot at AAA. Seriously.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

Andrea Pessino @AndreaPessino
@Vitoiuvara I don't think it would have made much of a difference... We just have to have to make a better game next time, and we will

https://twitter.com/AndreaPessino/status/679071716639834112?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Almost seems like a confirmation of a sequel along with this tweet.

Andrea Pessino @AndreaPessino
Wow, thanks everyone for the support and the kind comments - we are working on multiple projects, I can't wait to be able to say more.

 

[Psychoward]

Fully disagree. The Order 1886 has shooting as good as Gears of War and Max Payne 3. The cover system is, in mechanical and design terms, the best out of both of those games. The AI is fantastic. The movement is god-tier, and also best in class. The close combat is perfectly handled - one button, well integrated, satisfying.

Indeed, it's the encounter/level design which fails the game. And completely fails it. Some of the encounters are actually still pretty good, but the game barely gives any of them space to breathe before shunting you forward into the next plot point. The AI - which is also very good - also isn't given any space to breathe because they have a super-low shelf life, so tend to be dead before they can do any of their interesting behaviours. They are also almost all in narrow corridors so can't really do much.

I disagree, the cover system in Gears of War is much better, and Max Payne 3 has shootdodge going for it. The AI may be alright but there were still plenty of times where I rounded a corner only to see the AI standing there like a bag of bricks waiting to get shot by me. And it was also cheapened by the fact that you could clearly see them coming out of their spawn points one by one. I also disagree completely about movement being "god-tier". The game has the animation and button in place for rolls yet doesn't even use it outside of the terrible Lycan encounters. Max Payne 3 has you diving all over the place, Gears of War has wall-bouncing, rolling and roadie-running, Vanquish has everything, Mass Effect 3 at least has a roll at all times even if it's a clunky one and they've also got cool things thrown in there like Vanguard's biotic charge. Close combat is fine but nothing the other games didn't do just as well. Enemy variety is also poor with the only unique enemies that they throw at you regularly being the shotgunners.

tl;dr there isn't a single thing the game did that was already done better by other games with better level design, longer length and more interesting and unique mechanics

 

[Shivvy_NTL]

I just got it a few days ago, i really like it. Game just needs to open up abit more. As in its very controlled and linear.

 

[shadowfall]

I think Kyle Bosman said it best on Mandatory Update in regards to liking the game, "It makes me feel like a fanboy". I think there's a lot of truth to that, not about him but about the game. It absolutely is an awful game and probably will go down as one of the worst this gen considering the attention and hype it got. But people are holding on to it as some misunderstood masterpiece or justifying PS4 purchase as if countless other games haven't already done so.

This is not this gens Demons Souls guys, please let it go, as one PS gamer to another, it is not worth it. It was a failed experiment, RAD got their shot and failed, move on. Don't embarrass everyone like the blind love for Heavenly Sword which this whole ordeal feels very similar to. Sony make awesome games but they can also make down right bad ones like Knack. It's ok to call a bad game bad. No one will think any less, look forward to and hype the exclusive line up of 2016 but give up on turning The Order into something more than it is, it doesn't even deserve half the attention it has been getting this year.

Wow perhaps the fact that there might be legitimate fans out there for Knack or The Order is clearly not a possibility. I am sorry that my love for those two games embarrasses you. Oh sir please do tell what else embarrass everyone so that we can avoid publicly talking about them.

 

[OsirisBlack]

While the game is not perfect by any means they have laid the ground work for a phenomenal IP. The lore and history is sound and well thought out if not expertly executed. As far as gameplay my only gripes would be that you could not roll whenever you liked and the enemies lacked diversity. Outside of that the weapons feedback, sound and cover control is pretty top notch. There are a lot of things that could be addressed in a sequel and I do believe this game deserves that shot.

Edited to add: the stages could have also been opened up a bit more for traversal and combat options. I think the bridge and the final two areas right before the final boss are actually very good and well executed its just too little of that in the overall package. Also the OST is insane I'm a junkie for a good score.

The time spent working on their engine would be there for them to use on other aspects of the game as I am sure that took quite a bit of time and after completing the game for the I wont admit how many times it just feels like they put it out before it was actually finished.

Spoiler

you don't even get to use what looks to be the most interesting weapon in the entire game.

Still my favorite new IP of the gen.(didn't say my favorite game of the gen) and think it could be a very solid franchise for Sony in the future. Also surprised to see it popping up in the top 10 thread as often as it has.

 

[Apath]

I would buy a sequel day one for what it is worth. I knew what the game was when I went into it and enjoyed it. The game is definitely flawed and the story ended in an unsatisfying way, but I still wanted more.

 

[Skux]

The end of the first game hints at a complete tonal and gameplay shift were a sequel to be created, and I'd love to see that explored.

It basically looks like it's going to become Batman Arkham 1886. And that would be fucking awesome.

 

[Chrisdk]

I feel like i deserve a third act more than a sequel. I'm glad i borrowed the game, because i would have felt ripped off if i had paid money for it. And i had so high hopes when it was announced. One of the biggest letdowns in 2015.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

I agree with you, OP.

Mainly because I think they could hit it out the park with a sequel, to make up for the tiny gem the first game was.

TO1886 is a gem buried deep under the rubble of a skyscraper. A skyscraper of towering ambition and technology which crumbled in on itself under its own weight, compromising how good the experience could have been.



Fully disagree. The Order 1886 has shooting as good as Gears of War and Max Payne 3. The cover system is, in mechanical and design terms, the best out of both of those games. The AI is fantastic. The movement is god-tier, and also best in class. The close combat is perfectly handled - one button, well integrated, satisfying.

Indeed, it's the encounter/level design which fails the game. And completely fails it. Some of the encounters are actually still pretty good, but the game barely gives any of them space to breathe before shunting you forward into the next plot point. The AI - which is also very good - also isn't given any space to breathe because they have a super-low shelf life, so tend to be dead before they can do any of their interesting behaviours. They are also almost all in narrow corridors so can't really do much.

There were moments when it felt like I was playing a third-person F.E.A.R. The guns looked amazing, felt amazing, and the AI reacted to them believably and well. The vibe was just badass and fantastic.

All of the above would be fine if the game was longer. It's the truncated length which is The Order's real problem. Just as it's getting going and the combat is getting proper intense, it's over. Even the writing drops to shit-tier in the last scene. They must have mismanaged their resources. Such a tragedy.

TL;DR:

The cover system is garbage. It's functionally lacking, you can't even go around corners while remaining in cover, that's something you can do in Uncharted 1 ffs, TLOU basically showed how a slower third person shooter can let the player stay low with crouch while having sticky covers. The enemies for the most part do not actively try to flank the player by going cover to cover. In cover system terms both the player and the enemies are essentially playing a stupid game of whack-a-mole instead of true hide and seek. You can't stealth because you're always forced to pop up and give away your position, not to mention the moveset doesn't allow you to truly utilize stealth in a meaningful way.

The level design is limiting as well, the game reeked of poor game design, Dana Jan should have never signed off on the button layout, melee system, the limited stealth, how the cover system was implemented but I don't think he knows what a good third person shooter plays like, management probably didn't know any better.

 

[RudoIudo]

The button assignment is whack and is inconsistent, the cover system lacked the ability to go around corners, sometimes you can stealth and most times you can't since it's contextual but it's also timing prompt based which is clunky at best instead of letting the player judge based on distance, they don't have an idea how to pull off basic mechanics consistently.

Their gameplay designers don't have a clue on how to design a good control scheme and that's a huge problem.

Never had a problem with the control scheme.

The stealth part is just dumb but it's limited to one very infamous section (spotted=gameover) and very few other moments that are so scripted they could be Qtes.
It almost seems they just put the stealth on the game to introduce some cheap variety (recycling the same animation) and then everything just backfired.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Never had a problem with the control scheme.

The stealth part is just dumb but it's limited to one very infamous section (spotted=gameover) and very few other moments that are so scripted they could be Qtes.
It almost seems they just put the stealth on the game to introduce some cheap variety (recycling the same animation) and then everything just backfired.

Using the touch pad to change shoulders is clunky at best.

How do you go around a piece of cover while staying in cover? You can't.

Those are just a couple of things wrong with the controls, sure you can still play the game but it's not smooth or optimal.

Stealth is moot if they can't integrate it, it's just the genre has advanced so much from what they thought would be industry standard.

 

[SavoyPrime]

I know it got a TON of hate. But I really enjoyed the game. Would love to see a sequel.

 

[TrojanBlade]

+1

The game deserves a sequel. A lot of the stuff could be fixed. The shooting and weapons feedback was one of the best in a TPS. It just needs to be refined and game needs to have more open levels and less hand holding sequence. I liked the game better than some 8-9+ games honestly. Maybe its just the kind of games I like. Loved the atmosphere and game world. So much potential if handled properly. RAD can learn from the feedback and I am sure they could come up with a much better sequel if they are allowed.

Does Sony owns the IP? I hope they don't give it up on this.

 

[GavinUK86]

Yup, one of my favourite games of the year. The whole package was just sublime.

It really needs a sequel to expand on the vampires' role in everything.

 

[EGM1966]

Deserved is a bit strong.

Concept was good and the tech was sublime but the game was average to mediocre by turns.

If I knew they could seriously up their game I'd be in for a sequel but hard to avoid concern they'd simply under deliver where it counts again.

 

[tryptobphan]

Despite how much I make fun of TO, I do sorta like it, and I appreciate that they used a fantasy setting in a high budget, cutting edge shooter. I do.

My main complaint doesn't have to do with QTE or a bad story or cliched characters. I just want them to have some more fun with it. Let's shoot some monsters, let's fight

Spoiler

vampires

, let's take on

Spoiler

Dracula

in an epic showdown! It's potentially all very silly and fun, so let's do it! They handled it too seriously and they didn't let us do anything fun, we just shoot gun toting humans the whole time. Fighting vanilla humans should be the first act of the game, and then after that things should just become insane! There was a lot of squandered potential here.

I don't make fun of the game because people already do it (and I suspect most didn't even play it, much less give it more than 30 minutes)...

But I agree with everything you said. So much potential.

 

[TrojanBlade]

I know it got a TON of hate. But I really enjoyed the game. Would love to see a sequel.

Yes some of the hate is overblown IMO. A solid 7/10 for me.

1886

So good

 

[gadwn]

It had some lackluster battle encounters and some really odd game design decisions but I couldn't help but to love it. One of my favorites of the year, I freaking love the world design, lore and characters. The shooting itself was actually pretty damn good also.

As I understand it sold at least decently but I don't think we will never see a sequel because of all the hate. A shame, really, a well made sequel could be GOTY material.

 

[Kelegacy]

I just beat the game his past weekend and loved it. Yes it was short but I really dug the gameplay. I just wish there was a ton more if it. The shooting and reactions from enemies felt great.

I would replay it in a flash but I hate not being able to skip the cutscenes. Otherwise I think it's a very underrated game. If a sequel came along with thrice the length and more gameplay I would be all over it.

 

[Splat]

How do you go around a piece of cover while staying in cover? You can't.

Hold circle.

 

[Aeriscloud]

A reboot would be better, or a coffin. One or the other.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

All the things that weren't great could easily be fixed, the foundation is solid as a rock. 8/10 for me, a proper sequel that improves on the weak areas could easily be a 9/10.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I think Kyle Bosman said it best on Mandatory Update in regards to liking the game, "It makes me feel like a fanboy". I think there's a lot of truth to that, not about him but about the game. It absolutely is an awful game and probably will go down as one of the worst this gen considering the attention and hype it got. But people are holding on to it as some misunderstood masterpiece or justifying PS4 purchase as if countless other games haven't already done so.

This is not this gens Demons Souls guys, please let it go, as one PS gamer to another, it is not worth it. It was a failed experiment, RAD got their shot and failed, move on. Don't embarrass everyone like the blind love for Heavenly Sword which this whole ordeal feels very similar to. Sony make awesome games but they can also make down right bad ones like Knack. It's ok to call a bad game bad. No one will think any less, look forward to and hype the exclusive line up of 2016 but give up on turning The Order into something more than it is, it doesn't even deserve half the attention it has been getting this year.

I hate when people lump everyone into one category, it's so freaking annoying and it shows a general bias to their reasoning. Which is ironic because you're claiming that people are biased just for liking this game.

Some people genuinely like it, like me, that's how it goes. I'm not trying to prop this up as some great exclusive, I loved the game though, from the world, to the characters, to the punchy shooting.

 

[sun-drop]

I liked it too, after getting bored of witcher and phantom I was pretty much over the open wortld thing.

Iysca great directed experience. The only problem I had was that the ending seemed rushed, after the awesome air ship and dockyard chapters the final area seemed ...incomplete...

 

[HarryKS]

It is a failure as a game because it wrestles control from the player every chance it gets. When it forces you to walk slowly and decides it wants to be a visual demo rather than a game. This shit has to die. I'm tired of walking or running slowly behind someone who is talking to me in every game. The Order just happens to be one of the worst offenders.

 

[Sakujou]

let it be a sequel with more in-depth gameplay, more stealth and... well more gameplay. everything else was superb in the game.

loved the state-of-the-art-graphics and the story was awesome too.

an aged man and an indian girl as the main protagonists. something new, thats what i like.

 

[a.wd]

What's with the revisionist history, just because the game was hyped and was dissapointing on every level does not mean that it deserves anything.

It had bad story, pacing, gameplay and the only redeeming feature was the graphics, this is not a worthwhile game to bring back. Psi-ops deserves to come back, freedom fighters deserves to come back. Jet Set Radio deserves to come back. Leave the order alone.

 

[Kodaman]

I don't get this logic.

Every bad game should deserve a sequel then.

 

[Oni Jazar]

I don't get this logic.

Every bad game should deserve a sequel then.

There are lots of bad games that have no redeeming values. The Order is not one of them.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

+1

Does Sony owns the IP? I hope they don't give it up on this.

Yes they do, but not the engine it was built on.

 

[Frillen]

I love how the OP doesn't mentioned shit about gameplay. Because there's really nothing to praise. No, I do not want a sequel to that game, leave it to die.

I wonder how many would actually defend this title if it wasn't an exclusive.

 

[Dimorphic]

I knew what The Order was going to be as I went into it and as such really enjoyed it.

Sometimes having a curated, linear story is nice after the deluge of open-world, sprawling "epics" that are constantly released.

 

[Oni Jazar]

I love how the OP doesn't mentioned shit about gameplay. Because there's really nothing to praise. No, I do not want a sequel to that game, leave it to die.

I wonder how many would actually defend this title if it wasn't an exclusive.

I'll praise it. The game plays well. Guns feel strong, movement feels tight. The final encounter was a lot of fun on hard difficulty.

 

[Marjar]

If they wanted to make a sequel they probably should have thought about making a good game in the first place.

 

[Psychoward]

There are lots of bad games that have no redeeming values. The Order is not one of them.

The only redeeming values of the game were the graphics, voice acting and gun feedback. That's it. Those are literally the only things I can praise.

 

[sn00zer]

A "The Order" game that learned from its mistakes could be an absolute monster of a game. They did some really mind blowing things in that game.

 

[Frillen]

A "The Order" game that learned from its mistakes could be an absolute monster of a game. They did some really mind blowing things in that game.

The only mind blowing thing about the game was how many times they took away the controls from you. I especially hated the part where they forced you to move in a 2D space after you received the sniper rifle.

Every single game could be an absolute monster of a game if if the devs learned from their mistakes.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Hold circle.

Doesn't work.

 

[Scoops]

I mean the gameplay would have to be drastically different...

 

[Splat]

Doesn't work.

Hold circle and move stick towards corner doesn't work?

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Hold circle and move stick towards corner doesn't work?

Many of the cover boxes aren't built to allow this, it's badly thought-out. Compare this to Uncharted 1 how easy it is to move toward a corner, hold circle and up to go around a corner while remaining snapped in cover, you can do it at will whereas it's an afterthought in the order. It's careless level design and poor testing by the designers, it's like they difn't play the game to see how it plays and what's missing.

 

[WickedLaharl]

no thanks it was a pretty shit game that wasn't even good during the shooting bits. i'd rather see a sequel to blood on the sand. sony should give fifty a call.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

The only mind blowing thing about the game was how many times they took away the controls from you. I especially hated the part where they forced you to move in a 2D space after you received the sniper rifle.

Every single game could be an absolute monster of a game if if the devs learned from their mistakes.

Well... Naughty Dog did prove that Uncharted 2 was another beast compared to the first title. So did Guerrilla Games with Killzone 2 compared to the first game. Mistakes can easily be fixed if the mind and heart is set to overcome them.

 

[Kodaman]

There are lots of bad games that have no redeeming values. The Order is not one of them.

If you look closely, there are far more bad games that have one or two redeeming values that the ones that don't. The Order is just one more of a long pile.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I love how the OP doesn't mentioned shit about gameplay. Because there's really nothing to praise. No, I do not want a sequel to that game, leave it to die.

I wonder how many would actually defend this title if it wasn't an exclusive.

I would, so there's 1 at least

 

[GavinUK86]

I love how the OP doesn't mentioned shit about gameplay. Because there's really nothing to praise. No, I do not want a sequel to that game, leave it to die.

I wonder how many would actually defend this title if it wasn't an exclusive.

I would. I do. It's one of my favourite games of the year. Love everything about it. You may not want a sequel but plenty do.

 

[Psychoward]

I would. I do. It's one of my favourite games of the year. Love everything about it. You may not want a sequel but plenty do.

ehhh let's not get carried away here