Support NeoGAF

[pigeon]

False. McCree is powerful at short range, okay at medium, and poor at long range. He's easily outclassed by many characters offensively except very close, and even then it's not like it's not counterable.

Who do you think counters McCree?

 

[Xeteh]

yeah playing as Mccree i find tracers to be the worst since they move so fast, flashing rarely works. So far i don't find him overpowered him against 3 people is automatic lost even with flashbang.

That is on you, not the character.

Who do you think counters McCree?

People always say snipers even though snipers counter everyone if they can aim.

 

[m4st4]

Who wants to trade for one of my skins I unboxed?

Hate that frog. And I have both. Using default Lucio atm.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

If D.Va wasn't absolutely worthless at everything except for running at people I'd play her.

I think we're beginning to understand what the trouble is...

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Sweet, 2 Widows, a Genji and a Tracer attacking on objective 2 Anubis, thank you guys, you were so helpful!

Genji and Tracer are good at getting past that gate and drawing attention backwards.

The Widows were probably totally worthless though.

 

[Feral Gingy]

I started to hunt some trophies and.... welp... sigh

At least I managed to grab this and this

 

[kingofthedead45]

Who do you think counters McCree?

Widow maker?

 

[Moonlight]

While we're on the nerf train, I hope they look into upping the charge time on Widow's sniper by at least another second.

Spoiler

then instead of two widowmakers in every game we can have three hanzos

 

[packy34]

Who do you think counters McCree?

Anyone with speed, range, and/or explosives can counter McCree. Widow, Hanzo, Junkrat and Pharah are his best counters. 76 can usually get him at medium range, too.

 

[Ken]

What's the best roadhog legendary and why.

 

[Poetaster]

Whenever I'm in a bad team and realize that there's no winning this, I start playing only for myself and get those easy gold medals.

Become the lone bright star of this shitty team.

That does sound like a good idea. I'll try playing the characters that need to be played like I have been, but if the team just isn't progressing I'll start playing like its team death match.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

If D.Va wasn't absolutely worthless at everything except for running at people I'd play her.

Running at people is the point.

Dash at an opponent and then use your guns to get free headshots and rip them apart. Her guns are most effective at that close range anyways.

You have a massive armor pool that neutralizes most character's damage significantly. So burn it and then fly back out.

 

[pigeon]

That is on you, not the character.



People always say snipers even though snipers counter everyone if they can aim.

Yeah, McCree actually has great accuracy with long range poke, since he has a revolver. He is actually one of the better characters against snipers.

The fact that people keep posting "well, McCree is fair, he'll usually die against two or three enemies at once" really illustrates the issue here. It is actually normal for people to die when they're outnumbered. The fact that people think that's a balancing point shows how far the window has shifted in their minds.

 

[dimb]

What's the best roadhog legendary and why.

Sharkbait because it's a shark.

 

[HandsomeCharles]

yeah playing as Mccree i find tracers to be the worst since they move so fast, flashing rarely works. So far i don't find him overpowered him against 3 people is automatic lost even with flashbang.

As a frequent player of Tracer I would say my experience has been exactly the opposite of what you described. In fact, on several occasions where on my client I have blinked and dodged the FB, I have still been stunned and then retro-actively moved back to where I was prior to the blink. It's incredibly annoying.

 

[Moonlight]

Anyone with speed, range, and/or explosives can counter McCree. Widow, Hanzo, Junkrat and Pharah are his best counters. 76 can usually get him at medium range, too.

McCree dunks Pharah if he can aim in my experience. Widowmaker is on your team to deal with Widowmaker, but he can still scare her off because the revolver is respectable.

 

[Xeteh]

What's the best roadhog legendary and why.

Mako or Sharkbait, I like the color schemes on both.

 

[Ken]

Sharkbait because it's a shark.

Is your bnet sodacop cause I ran into a sodacop once and they were very rude.

 

[dimb]

Is your bnet sodacop cause I ran into a sodacop once and they were very rude.

Yes...sorry.

 

[packy34]

McCree dunks Pharah if he can aim in my experience.

"If" is the operating term here. I do agree he can shut her down easily if she's using her ultimate, but anyone can do that.

 

[Trace]

As a frequent player of Tracer I would say my experience has been exactly the opposite of what you described. In fact, on several occasions where on my client I have blinked and dodged the FB, I have still been stunned and then retro-actively moved back to where I was prior to the blink. It's incredibly annoying.

I can hardly stand to play Tracer because of this. The amount of 20 tick rollback is ridiculous with this "favor the shooter" thing they have going on. I've blinked and gotten killed where I was previously standing 3-4 times per game playing her.

 

[Xevren]

I started to hunt some trophies and.... welp... sigh

At least I managed to grab this and this

Going for the Lucio one is brutal, I swear I've been close on Lijiang maps since you have good area's to ride around. I don't go specifically for the trophy though, I just like going up on the walls and shooting people as him heh.

 

[Clydefrog]

 

[Auctopus]

I started to hunt some trophies and.... welp... sigh

At least I managed to grab this and this

From what I've heard, nobody should be bothering with trophies quite just yet as half of them seem to be glitched.

 

[Fawk Nin]

I'm really excited to play this game but right now it's €70 to go digital which is just ridiculous. Digital prices need a reality check.

 

[Flintty]

Any other Reinhardt players finding that his ultimate is a bit unreliable? It's quite common for the hammer to connect/be correctly aimed but there is no stun effect. I'm not seeing any passive shields or immunity to stop it working - it feels like it's bugged.

 

[Feral Gingy]

Any other Reinhardt players finding that his ultimate is a bit unreliable? It's quite common for the hammer to connect/be correctly aimed but there is no stun effect. I'm not seeing any passive shields or immunity to stop it working - it feels like it's bugged.

I wonder if it can be avoided simply by jumping?

 

[pigeon]

Widow maker?

Why? McCree has great accuracy with a high-damage hitscan weapon. How is he worse off than anybody else against snipers?

Anyone with speed, range, and/or explosives can counter McCree. Widow, Hanzo, Junkrat and Pharah are his best counters. 76 can usually get him at medium range, too.

Same question. Saying "well McCree doesn't have long range" is failing to understand counter picks. Nobody has as much range as the snipers do but snipers don't counterpick everybody in the game. Why is McCree uniquely disadvantaged against snipers? For example, Bastion and Pharah have play patterns that cause them to hold still for lengthy periods out of cover, so snipers can kill them much easier than others.

Also, McCree trashes Pharah (she floats in the air, fan the hammer) and 76 (similar damage, flash bang wins).

 

[Haly]

I ran into Sodacop once and I lost.

 

[kingofthedead45]

What's the best roadhog legendary and why.

"Shark bait who-ha-ha"




Mako.

 

[HandsomeCharles]

I can hardly stand to play Tracer because of this. The amount of 20 tick rollback is ridiculous with this "favor the shooter" thing they have going on. I've blinked and gotten killed where I was previously standing 3-4 times per game playing her.

When competitive mode comes out that's where I'll be spending most of my time, purely because the game will be much more responsive.

 

[Ken]

Any other Reinhardt players finding that his ultimate is a bit unreliable? It's quite common for the hammer to connect/be correctly aimed but there is no stun effect. I'm not seeing any passive shields or immunity to stop it working - it feels like it's bugged.

Yeah but I usually assume it's lag or someone did a knockback and my hammer hit a wall or something instead.

 

[24hr]

Last night was the only night that I got fed up of playing this. It's more than likely because I was playing solo against pre mades. Just makes it so infuriating.

 

[Flintty]

I wonder if it can be avoided simply by jumping?

Potentially, I'll try it with a friend in a custom game. Pretty lame if a simple press of the jump button negates it to be honest. I think the ability needs tweaking to be more effective as it is.

 

[B.O.O.M]

Mei doesn't have a mech

Oops mixed up the two annoying characters. Meant to say D.Va

 

[Squire]

I find the Mccree nerf odd. Like sure he can easily kill you with the flashbang and FTH combo but the flashbangs range is fairly poor so as long as you keep your distance, he shouldn't be a huge problem. His weapon is powerul but also has slow fire rate so it's fairly easy to keep dodging his shots, though I've also seen Mccrees who are really accurate too, but FTH is almost useless if the enemy isn't fairly close because of the kickback.
I guess they can add a CD to the Fan but it wont really help much against people running in his face thinking they can take him on at close range.

McCree can melt tanks at mid-close range and FTH (and how easy it is to re-up on it) make his normal rate of fire practically irrelevant.

 

[dimb]

I ran into Sodacop once and I lost.

I could swear we were on the same team and won at least a few times.

 

[packy34]

Same question. Saying "well McCree doesn't have long range" is failing to understand counter picks. Nobody has as much range as the snipers do but snipers don't counterpick everybody in the game. Why is McCree uniquely disadvantaged against snipers? For example, Bastion and Pharah have play patterns that cause them to hold still for lengthy periods out of cover, so snipers can kill them much easier than others.

Also, McCree trashes Pharah (she floats in the air, fan the hammer) and 76 (similar damage, flash bang wins).

He's not uniquely disadvantaged against snipers. Everyone with low health and low speed is - and he falls into that category. He's the strongest against them, but still overall weaker than an accurate widow or hanzo. A headshot from his pistol won't kill either of them but a headshot will kill McCree.

Anyone can trash a Pharah that floats in one spot, and that player deserves it. A good Pharah uses her boost for movement, not hovering. That's why her ult sucks and rarely gets multikills.

I specifically said 76 wins at mid-range. Mid-range means out of flashbang range. 76 puts out way more DPS than McCree with a pretty accurate weapon.

 

[StoicFnord]

I'm starting to like Zarya, but feel her barriers are quite hard to use. Charge into bastion turret; pop a barrier; still die after the second it goes down. So, lesson learned, don't do that again. But the barriers are so short, and my teammates always go for cover when i've shielded them, that I hardly ever get that damage boost. On consoles, i feel like they could decrease the cooldown timer or something. Because aiming is hard with that beam.

Getting used to Barrier duration and guessign when an idiot teammate is going to pop out and get smashed are key Zarya skills.

Dont charge into Bastion, pop out, get your 50 energy and lob grenades at his head. When your teammate rushes out (Soldier Dad is great for this) whack it on, and you can hit 100 pretty quickly. At 100 your grenades do INSANE damage. And bastion is a sitting duck

 

[Stalk]

I've been having matches in the mornings before going to work and I swear every day this week has been nothing Hanzo / Widowmaker / Widowmaker comps with a dash of Tracers 7am BST is hell it seems.

 

[Xeteh]

I specifically said 76 wins at mid-range. Mid-range means out of flashbang range. 76 puts out way more DPS than McCree with a pretty accurate weapon.

Why would you even try to fight a Soldier at that range? You run and try to get closer for the advantage.

 

[nOoblet16]

I'm pretty sure people have explained this to you multiple times, but you've consistently ignored it. Soldier 76 doesn't make McCree obsolete and if you think you do you drastically misunderstand what McCree is for. Because McCree is overtuned and his kit, currently, allows that misunderstanding. Soldier 76 is supposed to be a 'frontline' hero, he has built-in sustain, a decent rapid fire weapon with decent accuracy and decent range and can decently contest objectives.

What does McCree have? Better range and better damage on his weapon, letting him effectively respond to characters like Widowmaker, and more importantly the most insane burst damage in the game that comes with Fan the Hammer that instantly deletes any non-tank hero. Soldier 76 doesn't have anything that compares with that. Numerically, he cannot measure up to the damage that McCree can pour on.

There is nothing that Soldier 76 can do against Genji besides straight forwardly trying to outplay him by kiting him out and evading his shit and shooting back. McCree presses E, throws it by his feet, and hits right click to instantly delete him. Tracer and Reaper go down the same way. His CC nullifies their traditional escape options and his burst damage means that they can't activate them before McCree destroys them. Which is fine, which is how it's supposed to be. But McCree isn't supposed to stare down Roadhog and right click, shift, right click and melt that Roadhog in three seconds. Reinhardt has his shield up? Just E over that and rinse and repeat.

High Noon also scales way better into higher skill levels than Soldier 76's aimbot, which is strictly a crutch ultimate that doesn't actually do anything to affect his damage besides guarantee that it'll hit. High Noon threatens to take out entire teams in a flash and refunds you back 50% of its' charge if you use it strictly to scare people off the objective.

There are some things Soldier 76 does better than McCree. But he doesn't 'outclass him in every way' and again, the fact you feel that they exist in the exact same space in a team comp really says what the problem with McCree is at the moment.

You are talking about best case scenario, rarely seen in gameplay. Just because he has a gun that is hitscan and accurate does not mean he can effectively respond against Widowmaker. Considering how slow the gun fires you have to be a terrible widowmaker to not kill McCree while he is trying to snipe you. It is actually really hard to land two consecutive shots (with atleast one headshot) consistently with the left click at range, no matter how MLG pro you are. Which is why eventhough when speaking in purely numerical manner you can say McCree's one headshot and one bodyshot kills squishies, but it is extremely hard to land that consecutively on small and fast moving targets at range with a slow firing weapon.

Soldier 76 is just better equipped to go up against McCree when fighting at medium range or long ranger he is faster, he can heal in combat, has the DPS with Helix rockets and has a faster weapon which is about just as accurate. He is obviously a lot worse than McCree in close range.

 

[packy34]

Why would you even try to fight a Soldier at that range? You run and try to get closer for the advantage.

No one tries to, but sometimes people find themselves in those situations. McCree doesn't have enough health to get closer in time if 76 spots him far enough away.

 

[NeoN1]

When competitive mode comes out that's where I'll be spending most of my time, purely because the game will be much more responsive.

Is it confirmed that ranked play will have higher tick rate ?

 

[Nickle]

Any other Reinhardt players finding that his ultimate is a bit unreliable? It's quite common for the hammer to connect/be correctly aimed but there is no stun effect. I'm not seeing any passive shields or immunity to stop it working - it feels like it's bugged.

It only works with line of sight, and a shield will block it.

 

[Feral Gingy]

Can anyone confirm if Soldier 76 ult makes his rockets automatically seek the enemy in line of sight? I mean like following a moving target.

 

[-MD-]

yeah playing as Mccree i find tracers to be the worst since they move so fast, flashing rarely works. So far i don't find him overpowered him against 3 people is automatic lost even with flashbang.

You should chew through Tracer as McCree, I rarely ever see flashbangs miss anymore.

 

[Moonlight]

Soldier 76 is just better equipped to go up against McCree when fighting at medium range he is faster, he can heal in combat, has the DPS with Helix rockets and has a faster weapon which is about just as accurate.

Did you quote the wrong person? I didn't really talk about his match-up against Widowmaker, but he's certainly more threatening to her at range than the other offensive characters are. The fact he can still poke her for a chunk of life with a hitscan weapon is better than what other characters in his class can boast.

The question I was answering was 'why would you ever play McCree when Soldier 76 does everything better' (which is that S76 is not, actually, just McCree except better). Not the match-up of who wins in a 1v1.

 

[psyfi]

There have been a few times now that I've used Lucio to hold an objective all by myself in overtime. I just use speed boost and move around erratically, then pop health boost as needed. I'm basically a self-healing Tracer. It feels so good.

 

[truestatic]

I find the Mccree nerf odd. Like sure he can easily kill you with the flashbang and FTH combo but the flashbangs range is fairly poor so as long as you keep your distance, he shouldn't be a huge problem. His weapon is powerul but also has slow fire rate so it's fairly easy to keep dodging his shots, though I've also seen Mccrees who are really accurate too, but FTH is almost useless if the enemy isn't fairly close because of the kickback.
I guess they can add a CD to the Fan but it wont really help much against people running in his face thinking they can take him on at close range.

HIm wiping out MOST people who close his fine. Him wiping out tanks who close is Blizzard's issue. McCree can 100-0 any character in the game with his abilities with relative impunity. Tanks won't even be a counter to McCree. Making it so that fan roll fan doesn't 100% kill them won't make going toe to toe with him wise. It'll just make him slightly less ludicrous and the slightly less the obvious best pick basically all the time.