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Overwatch |OT2| A New Low in Unlocking and Microtransaction Systems
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Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
You know what, I don't mean to be abrasive.
J
JeremyEtcetera
Unconfirmed Member
I've been thinking about what skills would another new healer have, and I think it would be interesting if there were a character who transferred their life energy(health) over to you but sucked the life out of enemies as an attack. Sort of an offensive healer like Zenyatta but in a different manner.
The thing that seems to work on me and others(since McCree's usually do it to us) is to be the sneakiest McCree possible. He can be a better ninja than Genji if you find a pathway around to the back of your opponent team, wait for the right moment(usually when your team is trying to push or is putting pressure on the opponent team) and then activate high noon, or simply take them out one by one with stun, fan, dodge, fan and the opponents aren't looking behind themselves.
I feel like she should have a lot more shields than she does. Winston's static bubble and zarya's projected bubble seem like skills that might've been Symmetra's at one point.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
That doesn't tell me what Symmetra does differently.
When I think of a defensive character, I think of characters that we set up to lock down an area.
Junkrat's traps, Bastion's siege mode and Torb's turret.
That's exactly what she does. Symmetra's turrets/teleporter are about area denial. That's a defensive role. Not a support role.
She doesn't "support" the team in the way a support character is thought to. She doesn't heal. She doesn't buff or debuff.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I honestly think another healer being added is a bad idea, because it removes the incentive to play more thoughtfully and know maps/ health pack locations with more dedicated healing.
This comes from a Lucio/Zen/Mercy player tired of changing diapers -_-
This comes from a Lucio/Zen/Mercy player tired of changing diapers -_-
Reapers and Soldiers crying in the spawn room cause of Mei god damn.
Winston is super easy.
1. Jump behind enemy lines
2. Lay the shield down
3. Zap..zap..zap.
4. as soon as you get the option jump out
5. Rinse and repeat.
J
JeremyEtcetera
Unconfirmed Member
I expect at least 1-2 more healers to be added, simply based on the fact that other class types have 5-6 characters each and healers have 3 + Symmetra(who really does not count as healer).
orthodoxy1095
Banned
An interesting idea. I'm not sure how that would work in practice, but it sounds intriguing.
I'd rather have a support character that's not explicitly about healing. I really think we need a better buff/debuff character.
If Sym manages to keep her port up for as long as it takes to build up to another Ult, while that second Ult charged it should buff the teleporter in some way. Some additional effect every time a player passes through it. Nothing big or a suicide meta could develop.
Ideas? I am just spitballing here because it's fun.
Ideas? I am just spitballing here because it's fun.
Shields aren't a buff?
You can boil down any character to a list and it doesn't mean they are easy to use.
Genji:
1 - Shoot shuriken
2 - Jump around and run on walls
3 - Go crazy with ult and escape
Super easy
I don't mind Zenyatta but Widowmaker just ruins his day with just body shots.
Then again it's canon the Widowmaker just assassinates Buddhist-like Omnics.
If you get yourself lined up to a choke point is kill after kill for free.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Considering what they nerfed her shield output to, they're technically a buff on paper, but in practice, they're nigh useless except for the most mobile flankers like Tracer or Genji.
EDIT: But anyways, then what does that make Torb's armor? It's a buff. But he's still defense, because he's clearly area denial.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Or, again, you've only played with and against people who don't know how to handle her, giving an overinflated sense of her power
On offence:
It's not really disputable that her powers are just not well suited to aiding a push. Turrets become rapidly obsolete, if you're winning, and are demonstrably unhelpful if you stall. Her ult is significantly less of an asset for her team here than it is on defense, since cutting down a few seconds when you're pushing isn't nearly as critical, and again, it becomes less useful if you're winning, which is never great.
Her utility drops off enormously on point Bs because of the reduction her Ult's power, plus having a lot less time to set up turrets, PLUS the point Bs are less suited for her turrets in terms of general geometry due to having a lot more approaches to the point. She can still help a lot, and that alt fire isn't to be underestimated, but she's just flat out less useful on point B than she is on point A. And she's not even that useful defending Anubis' point A!
On payload missions, she's 2 for 3; strong out of the gate on Route 66, but largely useless after that. Much stronger on Dorado, not as good on Watchpoint Gibraltar but not bad. Again, map geometry plays a huge role here. Unless she's got good turret spots, she's just not as useful as she could be; it's a big difference between her and Torbjorn, he's got a much easier time making his turret count.
On hybrids, she's dominant on the capture phase in Hollywood and Mumbani; both are incredibly good for her. But after the capture phase, she starts being mediocre again. Hollywood is too distributed, too many wide routes, and Mumbani, while better, still doesn't have any particularly good nest spots. London isn't as good as either of those, frankly. Too many long lines of sight around the point, she can't cover it. Still, the long run time makes the ult a potential gamechanger.
On control maps, she again runs into the comparative utility problem. Sure, her ult is always nice, and her alt fire can be hugely effective during a brawl, but with her turrets largely useless on... basically all the maps but Night Market, you're just flat out better off picking somebody else.
Speaking generally, her shields are just not meaningful on anybody but the squishiest characters. Should be a % rather than a flat amount, imo.
Again, she's got her strong points everywhere. And on some areas, she's outright overpowered. But most of the time, you're just going to be better off picking somebody else, and I say that as someone who straight up adores the character.
SiKotikJ30
Member
Gotta rant a little. I don't think I can do pubs anymore. Just can't. Had a game with a Widow that was riding the elevator near first point in Hollywood for an entire game along with teammates who simply couldn't grasp the concept of staying behind my Reinhardt's shield. Then had a game with 3 (!) Torb attacking on Hanamura. Same game I cleared the first point of 5 of 6 defenders as Widowmaker (got POTG) but nobody jumped on the point with me after. Then in the game after that I had a team where half of them literally chased a Reaper around spawn on Anubis for at least a minute at the start. Really hoping the Competitive/Ranked mode weeds these idiots out because it's seriously hampering my enjoyment of the game. Don't care at all about losing if it's well played and I don't pretend to be an expert by any means but some of this crap is just ridiculous. I am indeed a little salty.
Yet Blizz is out giving buff to D.va, damn shame.
to be fair, a shield that can't even withstand a melee attack isn't much of a buff.
Yeah I agree that boiling down heroes to one-dimensional usefulness doesn't account for the many situations they have to adapt to given the objective, enemy team comp, etc. Anyone is potentially easy if you only use them to do what it's easiest for them to do.
And what's easiest sometimes does jack all for taking or defending an objective.
You'll sometimes get the message "finding a more balanced game" after winning or losing a bunch in a row, so yeah.
I had a 6-winstreak, got rematched, and lost 6 in a row before quitting for the night.
Speaking of melees... does anyone ever bother with them? I feel like I'm giving a friendly pat on the back whenever I use them. They're useless.
J
JeremyEtcetera
Unconfirmed Member
That idea sounds like a modified Zenyatta, since he already has the debuff. He would just need a good buff added.
Every time I see a Widowmaker or Hanzo they are always shooting at the other Widowmaker or Hanzo on the opponent's team. I usually switch to Winston and start killing the enemy Widowmaker or Hanzo so that my sniper teammate can not waste time on them and choose another class.
Two good uses: After a Hook and Shotgun blast from Roadhog, a melee is like a finisher. Second use is after Genji's sword dash, if you can quickly turn to the opponent and melee it can either kill them or leave them almost dead.
Edit: Third use(kind of) is when you do a super jump as Winston and land right next to an opponent(since the super jump does damage upon impact) immediately melee and get a free hit.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
The thing is, Sym is a builder like Torb.
If she was "building" healing stations or something, it might make sense for her to be a support.
But what she builds is to defensively control an area, and her ultimate is about...building something to defensively control an area.
As an aside, they might consider saying "no healer" in the pick menu, rather than "no support."
If she was "building" healing stations or something, it might make sense for her to be a support.
But what she builds is to defensively control an area, and her ultimate is about...building something to defensively control an area.
As an aside, they might consider saying "no healer" in the pick menu, rather than "no support."
I really like the rumored sniper idea. Recon buff-debuff would be intriguing.
The job of a support is to give your team more uptime.
Symmetra's ult does this by eliminating about 70% of the downtime for getting killed, rather than by keeping you from dying so fast in the first place.
That said, I think it's kind of messy that her teleporter ability scales in weird ways depending on offense/defense, progress, and which map you're on. I dunno, I think she's most likely of all characters to get a rework (though I'm not sure I really expect them to do any full reworks) if only for the fact that the combination of "players feel like she sucks" and "super high win rate" is just a terrible place to be from a design perspective.
Symmetra's ult does this by eliminating about 70% of the downtime for getting killed, rather than by keeping you from dying so fast in the first place.
That said, I think it's kind of messy that her teleporter ability scales in weird ways depending on offense/defense, progress, and which map you're on. I dunno, I think she's most likely of all characters to get a rework (though I'm not sure I really expect them to do any full reworks) if only for the fact that the combination of "players feel like she sucks" and "super high win rate" is just a terrible place to be from a design perspective.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Do player's actually think that she sucks though?
I feel like it's more that she's specialised. Which I think is fine for a game like overwatch.
I feel like it's more that she's specialised. Which I think is fine for a game like overwatch.
Dangansona
Member
I was going to ask what GAF thought of Zenyatta. I think he is kind of cool and was wondering if anyone had different opinions of his viability.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, this is the sense I get. Nobody seems to think she sucks, she's just hyperspecialized.
Still probably going to get a rework, tho. Maybe if you gave her the ability to set her turrets up at longer ranges...
swearing-circle
Member
Came across an interesting tactic that was near impossible to counter.
Anubis, choke point before first objective with 2 turrets and Reinhardt shielding them. Any good tips for countering this? The best I had was playing as tracer and darting across but I instantly got wrecked by the rest of the team. My team weren't even being incompetent but it seemed like nobody knew what to do.
I used Pharrah to destroy the shield but that didn't do much really. It was quite funny in actuality but im interested if anyone else has encountered this.
Anubis, choke point before first objective with 2 turrets and Reinhardt shielding them. Any good tips for countering this? The best I had was playing as tracer and darting across but I instantly got wrecked by the rest of the team. My team weren't even being incompetent but it seemed like nobody knew what to do.
I used Pharrah to destroy the shield but that didn't do much really. It was quite funny in actuality but im interested if anyone else has encountered this.
Ah indeed Hanzo
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Are we talking Sym? I think she kinda sucks because she's such a super specific hero. You basically use her on defense, on certain maps. I mean that's fine, but even on the maps that she's viable, I'd often rather make a different pick.
It seems like you can really just as easily call this "area denial," which is defensive, rather than supportive. Her "ult" might be support, but that's about all.
I like his abilities and attacks but is definitely too weak of a character. I don't like playing as him because the second I start taking heat I die.
Dropping D.Va bombs, dropping regular Junk Rat Bombs, Bastion+another Reinhardt. Either of these should do it.
It's for when you burn through your ammo at close range and the enemy has <30hp. It's faster than reloading but in a scenario like that you'd probably win anyway.
You look like a boss in the kill cam though.
Okay. I thought it was like that. Someone was telling me it won't auto-balance and I was telling them I was relatively sure it did.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Reload cancels and knockback
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Eh, his counters are so well known by now and we need a counter for a bunch of tanks just charging in.
J
JeremyEtcetera
Unconfirmed Member
A really good Zenyatta throwing around discord orbs to opponents can easily turn a game around, especially if you know your opponents are outclassing half or more of your team. He is not the best healer but when it comes to damaging an opponent he is really up there, possibly past Reaper.
if i'm on a 1v1 situation where i ran out of ammo and need to have a long reload, and the enemy is almost finished anyways I will often resort to melee, yes.
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