Support NeoGAF

[pigeon]

Sure, you have to protect the teleporter area, but the whole point of the teleporter itself is area denial.

You're putting down the teleporter down in an area to plop out your teammates so that they can deny the area and lock it down. Just like a Bastion or Toblerone. Lucio, or any other support character isn't really doing anything similar regarding denying the enemy an area. The only remotely similar thing is Mercy's ult, which is still more of a sustain over a denial.

Again, I think this is exactly the same as Lucio.

How does Symmetra's ult deny an area? By making it more likely that teammates are in that area, by teleporting them to it if they die.

How does Lucio's aura deny an area? By making it more likely that teammates are in that area, by running them faster to that area and making them less likely to die while in that area.

I think this is not a sensible definition of area denial.

 

[Dead Prince]

How the hell have people reached well past a hundred already?

arcade mode probably.

 

[DrArchon]

May be an unpopular opinion but I feel that Pharah's ult should do more damage. Kinda horseshit that people can take multiple missiles to the face and still be able to shut you down.

Pharah's ult should fire the same amount of rockets but twice as fast or something. The damage is fine, the problem is how long she's vulnerable during it. The only way you can get out alive is to sneak up on every single enemy player, which isn't a realistic requirement.

 

[Rhaknar]

I think Winston's pretty easy to use but then again I use D.va a lot and they are somewhat similar.

Lets be clear here, by use I mean "use well".

I mean, technically I can use Tracer or Reaper, im just trash with them :3

 

[Antiwhippy]

What skill level of players were you facing when all of this happened? Did they all march in one by one into your turrets with no coordination at all? Any opponent with explosion or beam damage( like Winston) just has to look in the general direction of her turrets, fire and they explode.

Nope, very often they come in as a group push. Quite often with a winston or zarya or rein who actually do know to look out for turrets. Thing is, this is a team game. So they're concentrated on this one point, with multiple sources of distraction either from your team or the turrets, and they are taking damage from multiple sources.

People also underestimate the range of her beam. It's very easy to scatter them in a manner that they won't get destroyed by explosions all at once.

 

[pigeon]

May be an unpopular opinion but I feel that Pharah's ult should do more damage. Kinda horseshit that people can take multiple missiles to the face and still be able to shut you down.

Pharah has the worst ult in the game, to be honest.

I would just go hog wild and let her move during the ultimate.

 

[ExVicis]

So I just got the achievement Undying as Symmetra on King's Row against an entire team of Winstons. I have no idea how I lived/we won but goddamn that was tense.

 

[Ardenyal]

getting real tired of torbjorns every matches shitting out turrets after turrets as soon as they get destroyed

why doesn't the cooldown on them start AFTER they're destroyed?

its ridiculous

inb4 "go pharah or junkrat"

I was literally playing a game earlier as pharah where I destroyed 5 turrets in a row. the guy just kept shitting them out. and no you cant kill him straight after destroying the turret because

1) you're weakened by the turret you just destroyed so he can almost just 1 oe 2 shot you (because his gun deals a lot of damage)
2)he's not next to it so he just shits another one on his current position


its getting annoying really

I just had this experience on Hanamura attack B. Two Turdbergs setting turret after turret around the rafters. It would have been beatable if we didn't have 2x mechawaifus, Mei and Genji...

 

[Speely]

It's not the same. I can legitimately only name one character who wouldn't have use in a 'non-ult' mode and that's Symmetra. Think about all of the great skills other characters have without even using their ult. Then think about Symmetra.

Right. But because her Ult is potentially SO powerful, it has to be considered. Played right, you can basically make getting killed a VERY minor inconvenience, in a sustained fashion. You can't just divorce the Ult that defines what makes a hero great from them just because you are presenting a hypothetical that fits your narrative in regard to "what makes a hero useful."

Again, some heroes have less-useful Ults but better cooldowns/clicks. Some are more Ult-dependent. This seems right on point to me in a game that invites players to develop their own metas.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I don't really see the issue with heroes being more effective in certain parts of the map than others. You can switch.

It's that it's like a grand total of... maybe 7 different areas? Out of all the maps? On defense only?

She's way, way more limited than the rest of the cast.

Symm is more of a support than a defense, on average. Contrast her with the other builder; they've both got turrets, yes, and they've both got a max health boost (of a sort), but Torbjorn's turret can control a wide area, whereas Symm's turret is much better suited to setting up kills for other players. Torbjorn's primary fire is long ranged, and his secondary fire is well-suited for wrecking close-in combatants, Symm's primary fire is very short ranged (and only works on one person at a time, after buildup), and her secondary fire is best used to, again, disrupt a push so other players can take advantage. Torbjorn's ult tunrs him and his turret into killing machines, Symm's allows her team to come back faster. She's a very defense-y support, but a support none the less.

 

[petethepanda]

Has Blizzard said anything in regards to holiday "event" plans? I've always dug stuff like that and the idea of something along those lines in Overwatch is just unbearably exciting.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

Symmetra turrets can lock down a doorway for at least 1 or 2 kills. Her left click melts people if they dont kill her. Her right click keeps people away, bypasses shields and is great to kill turrets who cant move. You are seriously playing her wrong or havent met good ones.

That's the thing, I've met great Symmetras who've even gotten play of the game in a rare moment. I'm arguing that people only choose her because of her ult, not because she is the best at 'X'. That is the problem. She should be better at one of her regular skills. If there were a tier list right now, McCree would be near the top and Symmetra near the bottom.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Again, I think this is exactly the same as Lucio.

How does Symmetra's ult deny an area? By making it more likely that teammates are in that area, by teleporting them to it if they die.

How does Lucio's aura deny an area? By making it more likely that teammates are in that area, by running them faster to that area and making them less likely to die while in that area.

I think this is not a sensible definition of area denial.

So what? One of Lucio's functions is area denial.

Symmetra's entire function is area denial.

 

[Astral]

How do you say stuff like "Need a healer" or "Need shields" or "Need a tank?" I keep seeing people do it and it'd be really useful if I could figure out how.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

That's the thing, I've met great Symmetras who've even gotten play of the game in a rare moment. I'm arguing that people only choose her because of her ult, not because she is the best at 'X'. That is the problem. She should be better at one of her regular skills. If there were a tier list right now, McCree would be near the top and Symmetra near the bottom.

Her ult is actually the thing I like least about her. I enjoy melting faces much more.

How do you say stuff like "Need a healer" or "Need shields" or "Need a tank?" I keep seeing people do it and it'd be really useful if I could figure out how.

The "need healing" slice on the chat wheel adapts to the situation, i.e. if you don't have a healer it will say "we need a healer"

 

[Zen_Arcade]

What skill level of players were you facing when all of this happened? Did they all march in one by one into your turrets with no coordination at all? Any opponent with explosion or beam damage( like Winston) just has to look in the general direction of her turrets, fire and they explode.

Well you don't put them right in the line of sight. I put them over doorways or around corners. A place that usually gets a lot of people is the little room to the left of the payload on Numbani. You can set up three in the first room and most people can't break all three before taking a lot of damage. There is also a full health pickup in that room, so if I get hit a bunch it's right there for me to recover quickly.

And even if they get past those I hide more in the steps and in the little area to get outside. I've gotten up to 14-15 turret kills a match.

I just won a game because I put two beams on a payload. It was going into Overtime and the two people were so concerned with keeping near the Payload that they didn't even notice that doing so was sucking their health down. I wasn't even alive at the time but it was obviously a deciding factor in the win.

I'm also one of the people who thinks about the teleporter last when picking her. My only real problem is how short the range on her gun is.

 

[eek5]

How do you say stuff like "Need a healer" or "Need shields" or "Need a tank?" I keep seeing people do it and it'd be really useful if I could figure out how.

Pretty sure heroes say that stuff automatically. You can use the emote wheel for some stuff (press c on PC) but theres only need heal, group up, and some others on there

 

[CountAntonius]

I am bad at Genji. I don't want to be bad at Genji. I wish there was s permanent skirmish mode I could join to practice against real people to get better with his movement and aiming.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

May be an unpopular opinion but I feel that Pharah's ult should do more damage. Kinda horseshit that people can take multiple missiles to the face and still be able to shut you down.

Nah, it's a pretty terrible ult. It actually sucks to "rain from above" since it's so easy to shoot her down and/or run away. It's dangerous, but a lot of times I'll just do it in an enclosed area for the uptick in damage potential.

 

[Kayo Police]

Pharah has the worst ult in the game, to be honest.

I would just go hog wild and let her move during the ultimate.

Maybe I'm weird but I think I would have preferred like a unlimited flight mode with insane boosts to speed.

But that's just me, I personally given on learning Pharah. I just can't make her work.

 

[Daft Punk]

That's the thing, I've met great Symmetras who've even gotten play of the game in a rare moment. I'm arguing that people only choose her because of her ult, not because she is the best at 'X'. That is the problem. She should be better at one of her regular skills. If there were a tier list right now, McCree would be near the top and Symmetra near the bottom.

What!? Not even. I choose Symmetra because her click and turrets combined melt people. Her getting a teleporter Ult is a perk.

 

[Poodlestrike]

May be an unpopular opinion but I feel that Pharah's ult should do more damage. Kinda horseshit that people can take multiple missiles to the face and still be able to shut you down.

No, you're on the money here. Her ult does decent damage in total, but it takes FOREVER, and she's incredibly vulnerable while she's using it. Could definitely stand a buff.

 

[Antiwhippy]

That's the thing, I've met great Symmetras who've even gotten play of the game in a rare moment. I'm arguing that people only choose her because of her ult, not because she is the best at 'X'. That is the problem. She should be better at one of her regular skills. If there were a tier list right now, McCree would be near the top and Symmetra near the bottom.

And people have been explaining why they pick sym outside of her ult.

Like, I regularly finish sym with gold or silver in elims. Which either says that most of my teams are terrible for being out elimed by sym, or that she very often contributes to people getting eliminated.

Had one ridiculous match where I racked up 32 elims in route 66, and that's with a team full of junkrat, zarya and winston constantly looking to hunt my turrets, but the point is that while they're hunting it they aren't attacking my team.

 

[Apathy]

why is it always dwarfs, bastions and widows that can't get on a point to stop a cap, it's amazing what must go through their brain

 

[eek5]

Maybe I'm weird but I think I would have preferred like a unlimited flight mode with insane boosts to speed.

But that's just me, I personally given on learning Pharah. I just can't make her work.

Unlimited fuel and maybe increased fire rate/dmg would be so fun.

 

[Kayo Police]

why is it always dwarfs, bastions and widows that can't get on a point to stop a cap, it's amazing what must go through their brain

I'm assuming a vast majority are only thinking about kills sadly.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

That's the thing, I've met great Symmetras who've even gotten play of the game in a rare moment. I'm arguing that people only choose her because of her ult, not because she is the best at 'X'. That is the problem. She should be better at one of her regular skills. If there were a tier list right now, McCree would be near the top and Symmetra near the bottom.

I mean, that's literally what most competitive tiers are showing right now.

Lucio, McCree and Reinhardt are all Tier 1, Sym is Tier 4-5.

 

[SwolBro]

still think torbjorns turret needs a slight nerf on the console version of the game. maybe a reduction in reaction time to an enemy around it.

played a 6v6 today and placing 2 of these suckers in a nice spot with protection and the game bogs down to: PROTECT THE TURRETS Vs DESTROY THE TURRETS

On pc i get it, McCrees, Widows, Hanzos, can take them down quick. On console it's just not as easy.

 

[Nokagi]

why is it always dwarfs, bastions and widows that can't get on a point to stop a cap, it's amazing what must go through their brain

Bastion players only move to go into tank mode.

 

[nhlducks35]

Can't believe in this type of game there's no quick way to say "Push now" or "Go Go Go"

 

[KnightHart]

That's the thing, I've met great Symmetras who've even gotten play of the game in a rare moment. I'm arguing that people only choose her because of her ult, not because she is the best at 'X'. That is the problem. She should be better at one of her regular skills. If there were a tier list right now, McCree would be near the top and Symmetra near the bottom.

I think what it comes down to is when you're picking a support for offense and defense, Reinhardt, Winston, and Lucio are just better and safer picks. With Reinhardt and Lucio being the best supports, followed by Winston, and with Zenyetta and D.VA being situational tanks.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

why is it always dwarfs, bastions and widows that can't get on a point to stop a cap, it's amazing what must go through their brain

Unfortunately, most pub Torb players don't understand to not camp with the turret.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Unfortunately, most pub Torb players don't understand to not camp with the turret.

Seriously, he shoots hot rivets lol

The turret is a distraction/extra bullets, but some people play like they only have a hammer

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

I mean, that's literally what most competitive tiers are showing right now.

Lucio, McCree and Reinhardt are all Tier 1, Sym is Tier 4-5.

Thank you for this.

For those in here who play Symmetra that I'm touching a nerve on, if she doesn't get a buff over time, give the game a few more months for new players to get better at spotting her turrets and teleports, then let me know if you still think she's the best at what she does. I can see the same people here saying 'she's great' start saying 'she needs a buff' a few months from now.

 

[Dead Prince]

that KOTH match on Ilios was too intense.

other team managed to get close to 99% and we somehow managed to get 99% and ended up going to over time. i think we got lucky because someone was still contesting the area and i was lucio who i rarely play did some speed boost to reach the point. we were just going back and forth eventually they didn't spawn fast enough and didn't kill me fast (we also had a mercy) who was healing as i was too. always felt like both team were about to lose until it was contested lol

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Has Blizzard said anything in regards to holiday "event" plans? I've always dug stuff like that and the idea of something along those lines in Overwatch is just unbearably exciting.

Oh yeah i agree, that would be really cool.

But i think they will do something like that:

For example Halloween skins

 

[ExVicis]

why is it always dwarfs, bastions and widows that can't get on a point to stop a cap, it's amazing what must go through their brain

Yo man someone's gotta watch this hallway. Sure we may be 30 seconds away from losing, but you'll thank me when someone comes in here and gets fucked up!

*Genji walks in a proceeds to reflect them to death*

Gaaah, it's because I didn't have any team SUPPORT! Jesus, you guys lost us this game!

 

[SDBurton]

Glad to see so many of you are of the same belief in regards to Pharah's ult.

Get to work Blizz!

 

[KarmaCow]

Playing Symmetra 90% of the time for me is setting up turrets and then one person just takes them out by farting in the general direction of the turret. I honestly don't get how they are effective against a team with even a tiny bit of coordination or even a single person with splash damage.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Thank you for this.

For those in here who play Symmetra that I'm touching a nerve on, if she doesn't get a buff over time, give the game a few more months for new players to get better at spotting her turrets and teleports, then let me know if you still think she's the best at what she does. I can see the same people here saying 'she's great' start saying 'she needs a buff' a few months from now.

Did you have a Sym on your team that lost you a match or something

 

[ExVicis]

Goddammit I want that Mercy picture as a skin. Blizzard I don't care if you put in holidays but please make this a thing!

 

[Antiwhippy]

Thank you for this.

For those in here who play Symmetra that I'm touching a nerve on, if she doesn't get a buff over time, give the game a few more months for new players to get better at spotting her turrets and teleports, then let me know if you still think she's the best at what she does. I can see the same people here saying 'she's great' start saying 'she needs a buff' a few months from now.

I expect that to happen, but on the other hand, it's useless to compare competitive to pub, because it very rarely works like that. I'm not even saying she's great, but at the level of quick play currently she can be a force in some very specific situations.

Also pub turning into competitive is a very good way to make me stop playing. Not even due to skill, just from the meta being super boring.

 

[Zaventem]

Goddammit I want that Mercy picture as a skin. Blizzard I don't care if you put in holidays but please make this a thing!

Would rock it so hard. Better than anything she has now currenty.

 

[Spine_Ripper]

Oh yeah i agree, that would be really cool.

But i think they will do something like that:

For example Halloween skins

That Mercy outfit

Blizzard plz

 

[ExVicis]

Did you have a Sym on your team that lost you a match or something

I think he was one of the people in this match.

 

[Apathy]

I really can't wait for that sweet sweet mccree nerf. since the stupid tournament hes been popping up more and more. And really all i want is for flash to not stun you from behind and i'll be happy

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Seriously, he shoots hot rivets lol

The turret is a distraction/extra bullets, but some people play like they only have a hammer

It's all about distraction.

https://gfycat.com/AptBadDuiker

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's all about distraction.

https://gfycat.com/AptBadDuiker

yessssssssss

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Thank you for this.

For those in here who play Symmetra that I'm touching a nerve on, if she doesn't get a buff over time, give the game a few more months for new players to get better at spotting her turrets and teleports, then let me know if you still think she's the best at what she does. I can see the same people here saying 'she's great' start saying 'she needs a buff' a few months from now.

I mean, you're not touching a nerve. You asked people a question and they responded.

People are always going to have to adjust strategy and placement. That's just a factor of having a long standing meta game.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Playing Symmetra 90% of the time for me is setting up turrets and then one person just takes them out by farting in the general direction of the turret. I honestly don't get how they are effective against a team with even a tiny bit of coordination or even a single person with splash damage.

You can mitigate this with proper placement. Spread your turrets out as much as you can while keeping them in range of the choke point and out of sight. Floor AND ceiling.