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[TheCanisDirus]

Ah, got it. Cool, thanks!



I played against a group that had two McCrees just using fan the hammer over and over again. It was really, really annoying. Friends don't let friends play as McCree.

Eh... "every player is annoying" lol... just head to the sky as Phara and blast that fucker to bits... or hook him with Roadhog from a blind spot or freeze his ass as Mei etc.

Double McCrees, esp when they always stick together are very deadly. I do fucking hate character stacking and think it should be turned off in competitive. (fingers crossed)

 

[wamberz1]

dying, this is sarcasm right

Of course not.
You need to be watching where people are at all times, keep track of the enemies location while leaping around, locate targets who might be low enough on health to kill, keep an eye on where ledges are to try and knock people off, checking where the point boundries are and trying to keep the enemy out of it, knocking healers away from their tanks and keeping flankers off your own healers.

Compare the to almost every other ult, which is just find a concentration of enemies and hit q to kill them.

 

[Gurrry]

I know as soon as you mention a bastion nerf everyone jumps down your throat, but based on that DPS chart, he does nearly three times as much damage as anyone else.

I think his damage can come down just a hair and it wont break the character.

As a roadhog, I feel I can counter him pretty well. However, even when I hook him out of his sentry mode and shoot him, he still doesnt die. He takes atleast 2 shotgun blasts after a hook to kill. Ive hooked many a bastion, only for them to kill me afterwards.

 

[SmartWaffles]

Got a Symmetra flanking tripping kill with the beam, PotG is me orb sniping a bastion and destroying 3 turrets by the opposing Symmetra who clearly doesn't have a clue what he was doing.

 

[pigeon]

I dont think that's right at all. Not in my experience anyway. D.Va's is so much lower to start and it's spread is probably just as bad if not worse than Roadhog's primary fire. Yes she does have altogether further max range... but it does very little damage. If you're within hook distance you're probably losing the DPS battle to Roadhog.... and if you keep firing as D.Va... you can't really move.

And according to this DPS chart http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20744955084

Roadhog has a primary maximum DPS of 225 secondary maximum DPS of 206.25

Diva has a primary maximum DPS of 168 secondary (Bunny light pistol) maximum DPS of 93.25

So I think this analysis is a little too in the vacuum.

First off, D.Va's spread is way, way tighter than Roadhog's. Like, this should be obvious just from playing both characters for a few minutes, and understanding this is actually key to dealing with Roadhog. Outside of point-blank range, Roadhog will just miss most of his pellets.

Roadhog basically has two optimal ranges, one at point blank or very close to it where he can land the majority of his pellets, and one at the explosion point of his canister, where he can do good damage with alt-fire.

In my experience, there is actually a dead zone in between those two areas where Roadhog can't do maximum damage with either attack. He will be missing with a lot of pellets and the canister won't explode. It is a much closer point to Roadhog than you probably feel comfortable -- it's closer than Mei range, but longer than Winston range? I dunno, I wish I had distance markers.

D.Va actually still does close to maximum damage in that range against Roadhog, because her spread is much tighter than Roadhog's. So Roadhog will be doing like half of the optimal DPS above, while D.Va will be doing like 90% of hers. This doesn't include the effect of armor, which is definitely also relevant since Roadhog will be doing half damage the entire time.

But, like, I don't want to theorycraft it forever I can just say, D.Va is actually one of the characters where I'm personally least worried about Roadhog. I don't necessarily want to stand there and DPS his face, obviously that's dangerous and it's a team game. But I don't think he beats her for free.

 

[TheAngryMonkey]

I got 24 on him once.
I also have a pretty decent k/d with Mercy which I find hilarious. If you chase me I will shoot you in the face.

This is the better approach over complaining about how people need to protect Mercy.

 

[aeolist]

I have 0 idea what to do with Winston's ult... trying to punch people against corner would work?
Wish I knew what to do with him, I feel REALLY bad.

jump in and bubble, dump your ammo and wait till you're low on health since the ult heals you to full.

then just try to disrupt and knock people out of position. if there's cliffs aim for that, if there's a sniper picking people off go for them, if there's a mercy about to revive smack her around. leaping in on a reinhardt cluster is especially good, you'll remove their shield.

 

[arimanius]

I added myself to the google doc for PC. I have a couple of friends I play with but solo queue a lot too. Feel free to add me, just let me know you're from Gaf.

Top 3 players I use is Roadhog (9 hours), Junkrat (2 hours), and Solder 76 (2 hours). I really love that hook lol

 

[shiba5]

This is the better approach over complaining about how people need to protect Mercy.

If I'm being focus-fired there's nothing I can do, but one-on-one usually surprises people because they are expecting a free kill. I shot a Tracer in the head yesterday, and that player didn't come near me the rest of the match.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

Of course not.
You need to be watching where people are at all times, keep track of the enemies location while leaping around, locate targets who might be low enough on health to kill, keep an eye on where ledges are to try and knock people off, checking where the point boundries are and trying to keep the enemy out of it, knocking healers away from their tanks and keeping flankers off your own healers.

Compare the to almost every other ult, which is just find a concentration of enemies and hit q to kill them.

Most of this is stuff you should be doing all the time

edit: was gonna upload an hilarious EU-gaf highlight from 4 winstons ulting and 2 lucios, but the game decided to bug out and crash. I really hope they let us archive these in the future.

 

[Meia]

I know as soon as you mention a bastion nerf everyone jumps down your throat, but based on that DPS chart, he does nearly three times as much damage as anyone else.

I think his damage can come down just a hair and it wont break the character.

As a roadhog, I feel I can counter him pretty well. However, even when I hook him out of his sentry mode and shoot him, he still doesnt die. He takes atleast 2 shotgun blasts after a hook to kill. Ive hooked many a bastion, only for them to kill me afterwards.

Bastion's damage dropoff is huge at range, and it's insane at medium/close range. You can't really do anything to that without making him an ineffective character(which he mostly is anyway since players can just pop out of cover, fire a shot, pop back in cover, repeat til dead).


I still say the only sure-fire way to nerf McCree is to remove the roll reloading his revolver thing. It should be a dodge, not a dps cooldown. It would also remove the reason why he's stupidly strong against a tank.

 

[BY2K]

I expect a lot of salt once McCree gets nerfed.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

I expect a lot of salt once McCree gets nerfed.

"McCree was fine! All you had to do was switch to Tracer and use your ult on him! It's that easy!"

 

[orthodoxy1095]

That's actually better then her default imo

I actually have her default in an orange alt recolor and I actually prefer that.

 

[The Omega Man]

I expect a lot of salt once McCree gets nerfed.

I expect a lot of salt when people realize the nerf was just on tanks and they are still comboe'd to death

 

[Lesath]

I dont think that's right at all. Not in my experience anyway. D.Va's is so much lower to start and it's spread is probably just as bad if not worse than Roadhog's primary fire. Yes she does have altogether further max range... but it does very little damage. If you're within hook distance you're probably losing the DPS battle to Roadhog.... and if you keep firing as D.Va... you can't really move.

And according to this DPS chart http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20744955084

Roadhog has a primary maximum DPS of 225 secondary maximum DPS of 206.25

Diva has a primary maximum DPS of 168 secondary (Bunny light pistol) maximum DPS of 93.25

So this has come to mind a lot in the past few days. If Mercy's damage boost is 30%, and given a hero that does 200 DPS (few do, but let's make the assumption), then the contribution to DPS would be 60. Wouldn't Mercy be better off using her pistol, which offers 100 DPS, assuming equal ability to aim?

 

[Gurrry]

Bastion's damage dropoff is huge at range, and it's insane at medium/close range. You can't really do anything to that without making him an ineffective character(which he mostly is anyway since players can just pop out of cover, fire a shot, pop back in cover, repeat til dead).


I still say the only sure-fire way to nerf McCree is to remove the roll reloading his revolver thing. It should be a dodge, not a dps cooldown. It would also remove the reason why he's stupidly strong against a tank.

See, i disagree with this. His damage drop off really isnt that bad at long range. Sure it isnt the same as medium/close, but its still better than all of the cast.

Alot of the times, you cant even counter him with most characters unless you are in medium/close range.

The reason I am voicing my concern now is because last night was the first time ive ever felt like we HAD to have a bastion to win. Im starting to feel like he is a necessity to win on certain maps/game modes. When we dont have him, I feel like we are at a disadvantage.

I really dont think a slight damage nerf, or a slower start up speed from normal > turret mode would hurt him all that much. I understand its a delicate balance, but when the character is doing 3 times as much damage as the rest of the cast, a slight nerf wont make him useless.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I expect a lot of salt once McCree gets nerfed.

If they weaken him too much (like they have with other characters), there will be major reversal from all the people who don't realize how important he is to keep all the damn Tracers and Genjis in check.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

If they weaken him too much (like they have with other characters), there will be major reversal from all the people who don't realize how important he is to keep all the damn Tracers and Genjis in check.

If they plan on nerfing his fan only, it doesn't even affect his tracer match up significantly. She is still going to die to any fan and decent players can just headshot during the stun, which he has ample time to do.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

So this has come to mind a lot in the past few days. If Mercy's damage boost is 30%, and given a hero that does 200 DPS (few do, but let's make the assumption), then the contribution to DPS would be 60. Wouldn't Mercy be better off using her pistol, which offers 100 DPS, assuming equal ability to aim?

 

[Anteo]

Shoutout to my Symettra haha.

I had my Symetria put a portal into a dropoff to the bottom of the stage. People died

 

[Kyoufu]

If they weaken him too much (like they have with other characters), there will be major reversal from all the people who don't realize how important he is to keep all the damn Tracers and Genjis in check.

There was a Genji who was terrorising my entire team last night so I decided to switch to McCree to counter him.

Nope. Still terrorised. Dude was deflecting my fucking stuns. I couldn't touch him at all.

I say nerf Genji!

 

[mbpm1]

"McCree was fine! All you had to do was switch to Tracer and use your ult on him! It's that easy!"

"McCree vs my character is a bad matchup for him

If I use my Ult.

If I'm not caught by surprise.

If I flank him."

 

[orthodoxy1095]

There was a Genji who was terrorising my entire team last night so I decided to switch to McCree to counter him.

Nope. Still terrorised. Dude was deflecting my fucking stuns. I couldn't touch him at all.

I say nerf Genji!

I've had some rough games over the past few days with some super good Tracers. Kinda worried about them because even with McCree being a bit OP right now, I can't kill them.

 

[CoLaN]

I would love if a lot of ultimates still required some kind of aiming skill, it would be a lot more satisfying

 

[wamberz1]

Most of this is stuff you should be doing all the time

edit: was gonna upload an hilarious EU-gaf highlight from 4 winstons ulting and 2 lucios, but the game decided to bug out and crash. I really hope they let us archive these in the future.

of course but having 1000 fucking health and the ability to punch people across the map kind of changes your game plan and the amount of things you have to keep track of.

 

[Lesath]

http://i.imgur.com/fdB7qlO.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

So essentially it's only really worth it to damage boost Bastion and characters that can do splash damage.

 

[peakish]

Mei POTG: https://gfycat.com/FlimsyChubbyHerald

-_-

This triggered me.

 

[pigeon]

So essentially it's only really worth it to damage boost Bastion.

Damage boost is mostly for characters who can deliver damage more effectively than Mercy (i.e., Pharah, Junkrat) or to reduce the time and effort cost of switching back to healing (which really shouldn't be much, but you know) or if you just can't hit shit with your pistol.

 

[kagamin]

.

That 0 energy Zarya though.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I would love if a lot of ultimates still required some kind of aiming skill, it would be a lot more satisfying

Even soldier 76's autoaim takes aiming skill because if your opponent's are weaving back and forth, your aim is gonna switch back and forth and you might not actually have enough damage output to kill anyone and it certainly drops out effectiveness a lot. And if you really don't have any aiming skill, you can't prioritize targets. You really need to kill that mercy or she is definitely going to revive everyone you killed, so you have to actually make sure mercy is getting hit. And even using helix rocket during it, you want to fire it off so it actually hits someone and not just whizzes by harmlessly.

Then take mccree's for example. Even his requires a good amount of judgment. Sometimes even though my target has a skull, if he gets behind cover during the firing animation, he might survive unscathed.

I mean, certainly the skill cap isn't gonna be high in terms of tracking or twitch aiming on these abilities, but there is some amount of aiming skill involved. And a ton of judgment involved too imo.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Positioning yourself properly is a type of aiming skill.

So essentially it's only really worth it to damage boost Bastion and characters that can do splash damage.

If you disregard that using your pistol puts you in the line of fire, yes.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

So essentially it's only really worth it to damage boost Bastion and characters that can do splash damage.

Your own aim still matters of course. The pistol is not as easy of a killer necessarily as other guns.

You shouldn't be swapping out your gun in such a way that puts you in the line of fire. You're a super squishy healer, not a DPS machine.

You should also always be boosting when teammates are about to use their Ults.

You should learn who to boost and when. A Bastion, 76, McCree, Junkrat, Pharah or Zarya are all excellent choices for a damage boost.

That 0 energy Zarya though.

Yep lol. She's a great choice to damage boost with that energy potential.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Damage boost is mostly for characters who can deliver damage more effectively than Mercy (i.e., Pharah, Junkrat) or to reduce the time and effort cost of switching back to healing (which really shouldn't be much, but you know) or if you just can't hit shit with your pistol.

If you disregard damage abilities... maybe. And line of sight required to shoot, time it takes to change weapons...

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

So essentially it's only really worth it to damage boost Bastion and characters that can do splash damage.

No, damage boost is really underused. Like how many mercy mains, know you can increase mcrees ult speed by 30%?

 

[ant_]

So essentially it's only really worth it to damage boost Bastion and characters that can do splash damage.

This also assumes 100% hit percentage with your pistol

 

[Goldenroad]

Got to level 19 last night. Decided to play one more match and got my second ever Play of the Game. I have been maining Roadhog for the most part, and I was on fire with him last night. Pretty sure I was on the winning end of 6 or 7 games in a row. Really made it hard to quit playing. I don't know if I'm going to do much else this weekend other than play Overwatch.

 

[brawly]

After complaining yesterday I finally got my first play of the game with Genji's ult.

Got the angry Winston victory pose which is pretty cool.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The thing with damage boosting is that even if I could do equivalent damage with my pistol, I can do damage boosting from a far safer position.

 

[Sifl]

There's basically no fun to be had in this game for me anymore. I play support/tank almost every match since everyone I'm paired with is usually a dps and we get steamrolled every match. I don't even remember the last time I qued for a game and we didn't get obliterated.

 

[vypek]

When people are on attack, they should pay attention to their doors. Multiple time I have trapped and mined someone at the central door with Junkrat. Its most satisfactory with a Tracer

 

[LiK]

There's basically no fun to be had in this game for me anymore. I play support/tank almost every match since everyone I'm paired with is usually a dps and we get steamrolled every match. I don't even remember the last time I qued for a game and we didn't get obliterated.

play a character you want to play. don't force yourself to play a specific character just because the Game Tips tells you to.

 

[Omega Kirby]

I will become one of the few bastions that kills people in recon mode.

 

[pigeon]

If you disregard damage abilities... maybe. And line of sight required to shoot, time it takes to change weapons...

You are responding to a post that mentions every single one of those points.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Even soldier 76's autoaim takes aiming skill because if your opponent's are weaving back and forth, your aim is gonna switch back and forth and you might not actually have enough damage output to kill anyone and it certainly drops out effectiveness a lot. And if you really don't have any aiming skill, you can't prioritize targets. You really need to kill that mercy or she is definitely going to revive everyone you killed, so you have to actually make sure mercy is getting hit. And even using helix rocket during it, you want to fire it off so it actually hits someone and not just whizzes by harmlessly.

Then take mccree's for example. Even his requires a good amount of judgment. Sometimes even though my target has a skull, if he gets behind cover during the firing animation, he might survive unscathed.

I mean, certainly the skill cap isn't gonna be high in terms of tracking or twitch aiming on these abilities, but there is some amount of aiming skill involved. And a ton of judgment involved too imo.

I dont agree personally. But that's just my opinion.

Get near some enemies and hold right trigger down and roughly swing your cursor around the screen you're going to get a number of kills. You dont need to target manage in pubs or worry about team revives as you're likely going to get back to back to back Ults as S76. Pop and forget.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

There's basically no fun to be had in this game for me anymore. I play support/tank almost every match since everyone I'm paired with is usually a dps and we get steamrolled every match. I don't even remember the last time I qued for a game and we didn't get obliterated.

Play in a group?

 

[Kyne]

There's basically no fun to be had in this game for me anymore. I play support/tank almost every match since everyone I'm paired with is usually a dps and we get steamrolled every match. I don't even remember the last time I qued for a game and we didn't get obliterated.

Find friends. Use GAF. Use forums. Stop solo-queueing.

 

[Sorral]

I've had some rough games over the past few days with some super good Tracers. Kinda worried about them because even with McCree being a bit OP right now, I can't kill them.

Decent Genjis should know how to counter McCree pretty easily. I have seen it and it happened to me once by a really good Genji. The same with a good tracer that dodges to the sides or back to waste McCree's flashbang. I don't play McCree as much these days since I figure I shouldn't get too attached to a character that's likely to get nerfed.

But just playing against him now and after knowing how McCree is, it is really easy to make McCrees waste the flashbang by using heroes with good movement/mobility. No ults needed.

 

[shiba5]

The thing with damage boosting is that even if I could do equivalent damage with my pistol, I can do damage boosting from a far safer position.

Exactly. I only use my pistol if I know I'm going to die otherwise.

 

[Drewfonse]

There's basically no fun to be had in this game for me anymore. I play support/tank almost every match since everyone I'm paired with is usually a dps and we get steamrolled every match. I don't even remember the last time I qued for a game and we didn't get obliterated.

What system are you playing on? I'm forced to play Lucio on regular basis and my win % is steadily going up. And I'm nothing special. Xbox One.

I exclusively solo queue

Bad luck with matchmaking, maybe?