Support NeoGAF

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Mercy has a gun, it's just that most of them forget they have it.

Had a really bad Mercy on 66 assault, healing a 76 almost exclusively who only got aimbot kills and was usually shutdown anyway.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

I really think you should get a loot box for play of the game or like 25 credits

1 per lvl is just not enough when half of the time it's junk

Are you in a hurry? this game will stay with us for a very very long time so i don't get why people complain about loot boxes so much...

 

[AngryNeox]

No, it's terrible design. You should never be completely useless in an FPS, ever. Fuck stuns so hard.

No, it's terrible design. You should never be completely useless in an FPS, ever. Fuck headshots (oneshots) so hard.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

No, it's terrible design. You should never be completely useless in an FPS, ever. Fuck headshots (oneshots) so hard.

No arguments from me.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

No, it's terrible design. You should never be completely useless in an FPS, ever. Fuck stuns so hard.

So you think Reinhardt, Junkrat, McCree, and Roadhog are terribly designed too then

 

[backflip10019]

F Junkrat. F anyone who likes Junkrat. Especially F the developer and designers who made Junkrat. What a garbage character.

 

[Trace]

F Junkrat. F anyone who likes Junkrat. Especially F the developer and designers who made Junkrat. What a garbage character.

Why so mad? He's great. I just think his trap lasts a tad too long.

 

[psyfi]

Well, yeah. If caught off-guard at close range by a class designed for close range, naturally the long range class is disadvantaged. However, no class hardcounters Widowmaker directly per se (like TF2's Soldier in a sense). She has counters, but most are situational or soft; nothing just outright "beats" Widowmaker like McCree does Tracer or Widowmaker does Bastion.

This is obviously a problem when talking about a character that can instantly delete almost every class at any range with a hitscan weapon.

I'm not sure I see the issue here. Why is some sort of obvious hard counter necessary when there are numerous situational solutions, or counters available via teamwork? I really only see Widowmaker being an issue when playing with randoms, which is definitely unfortunate, but that doesn't mean her design is broken at the core. Flush her out with Winston or D.Va, and have a second team mate help take her out.

 

[Sou Da]

F Junkrat. F anyone who likes Junkrat. Especially F the developer and designers who made Junkrat. What a garbage character.

Show me where the riptire touched you.

 

[AngryNeox]

It appears competitive leagues have started banning hero stacking, at least in KOH. This was much needed and I hope Blizzard takes a hint themselves as the game continues to grow.

Can't wait to see the boring meta that will be caused by that.

 

[Manoko]

So you think Reinhardt, Junkrat, McCree, and Roadhog are terribly designed too then

Junkrat is a root though.

 

[wamberz1]

F Junkrat. F anyone who likes Junkrat. Especially F the developer and designers who made Junkrat. What a garbage character.

BBBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRIIIINNNGGGGG

 

[Dominator]

Lmao just noticed the OT2 titles as I was smacked in the face with this.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

So you think Reinhardt, Junkrat, McCree, and Roadhog are terribly designed too then

Can they stun you?

 

[Apathy]

Next time, stay alive or have a healer keep you alive so you can jump on the point yourself. Maybe that would have assured you and your team a victory.

great strategy there buddy, guess you never die? You must be a coach for cloud 9

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Can they stun you?

Lmao

So you don't actually play then

 

[Trace]

I'm not sure I see the issue here. Why is some sort of obvious hard counter necessary when there are numerous situational solutions, or counters available via teamwork? I really only see Widowmaker being an issue when playing with randoms, which is definitely unfortunate, but that doesn't mean her design is broken at the core. Flush her out with Winston or D.Va, and have a second team mate help take her out.

This is why Widow has issues.

 

[Poodlestrike]

No, it's terrible design. You should never be completely useless in an FPS, ever. Fuck stuns so hard.

Oh, I don't disagree, just saying that you can take her apart. Doesn't mean playing against her is fun.

Basically the same as my thoughts on Bastion. Sure, you can wreck Mei's shit pretty easily, with the right pick and the right strategy, but that doesn't make dealing with them entertaining.

Can they stun you?

Reinhardt can stun you in... 1, 1.5 different ways, depending on how you count his charge. McCree is legendary for his stun, even though it only lasts .7 seconds. Roadhog hooks you, you're stunned while that happens. Junkrat traps you in place, which actually technically doesn't stun you, since you can still use some abilities; Reaper can go ghost while he's trapped, for instance.

 

[Apathy]

Lmao

So you don't actually play then

Only junkrat's trap can you still defend yourself, the others are full stuns

 

[Zemm]

A simple fix for McCree would be to have the roll either not reload the gun and add some invuln frames to it (if there isn't already) or have the flash bang only stun you if the McCree hits the person face on, not from behind. It's bullshit getting stunned from behind then fanned down.

 

[Xeteh]

No, it's terrible design. You should never be completely useless in an FPS, ever. Fuck stuns so hard.

You can just admit you don't know how to fight her. Its okay.

Hell, I'll even give you all the advice you want on how to counter Mei.

A simple fix for McCree would be to have the roll either not reload the gun and add some invuln frames to it (if there isn't already) or have the flash bang only stun you if the McCree hits the person face on, not from behind. It's bullshit getting stunned from behind then fanned down.

I'm expecting a CD on Fan The Hammer... and I still don't know why Flashbang does damage.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Can they stun you?

Yes.

It even throws a big "STUN!" when they do.

McCree's is worst because it's instant and he just fucking drops you with fan the flames.

 

[OverBlood 3]

I've been having a lot of fun playing Symmetra, finding a little space off to the side fill it full of awkwardly placed turrets then agroing people with my crappy beam (oh i'm so weak and helpless) into the trap and watching all the beams light em up as I run off to heal.

Been getting 15 people killstreaks quite easily. The turrets are pretty powerful. Also giving people a little health boost is nice, actually the teleporter is amazing at keeping the heat on people. I don't want to play as anyone else.

 

[DarkChronic]

So what are the tips for Defending? I feel like that's an automatic loss for me. Out of the 10-15 games I've played I've yet to see Defend team win a game.

Defending a spot for 8 minutes when it takes 30 seconds to fill up seems like a tall order.

 

[Dalek]

I'm suddenly not having any fun. I join a game and no matter who I play, I just get clobbered left and right. It's like everyone else's skill shot through the roof while I was away on the holiday weekend.

 

[Stiler]

McCree has a stun and can basically 1v1
anyone, how do you feel about him

Don't want to get frozen, stay out of range

You can block his stun or dodge it, you can neither block nor dodge mei's freeze.

Also get out of range with winston? Then what?

My poitn is that most abilities have counters or ways to play around them, mei is the only one you have to just "not engage" her to "counter" which is absurd.

 

[rdytoroll]

great strategy there buddy, guess you never die? You must be a coach for cloud 9

Lmao, this small conversation just killed me

 

[MartyStu]

That would awful. Even more people would try for the sick killz instead of playing the objective.

Agreed. I think getting voted up by the opposing team should factor into whether or not you get a free box.

 

[Zemm]

Can't wait to see the boring meta that will be caused by that.

Did you watch the tournaments this weekend? There's no way it can be as boring as watching 4 McCrees trying to stun everyone. The competitive meta is pure trash to watch right now.

Having character caps will definitely help.

 

[Suzushiiro]

Good, good. Now let's see it implemented in Quick Play, Blizzard.

Hero stacking should be constrained to customs and special Brawl modes.

Competitive mode, sure, but in casual play the game should prioritize fun over balance, and the crying over people not getting to play the hero they want because someone else is playing it would harm the experience significantly more than the imbalance that hero stacking can sometimes cause (especially since you need a team more coordinated than the average quick match team for the balance issues in that to really manifest.)

 

[MartyStu]

So what are the tips for Defending? I feel like that's an automatic loss for me. Out of the 10-15 games I've played I've yet to see Defend team win a game.

Defending a spot for 8 minutes when it takes 30 seconds to fill up seems like a tall order.

It is super important that you hold the first point as long as possible.

As you say, 8 minutes is much too long to hold a single point, but 3 - 5 is not so bad.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So what are the tips for Defending? I feel like that's an automatic loss for me. Out of the 10-15 games I've played I've yet to see Defend team win a game.

Defending a spot for 8 minutes when it takes 30 seconds to fill up seems like a tall order.

There at usually a number of choke points along the route where sometimes it's best to group up and concentrate your efforts while some people flank, instead of colliding headfirst.

You can block his stun or dodge it, you can neither block nor dodge mei's freeze.

Also get out of range with winston? Then what?

My poitn is that most abilities have counters or ways to play around them, mei is the only one you have to just "not engage" her to "counter" which is absurd.

I mean

It's a team game, taking on a character alone shouldn't be your main strategy, especially if you don't want to counter pick

 

[Stone Ocean]

No, it's terrible design. You should never be completely useless in an FPS, ever. Fuck stuns so hard.

It's not the game's fault you are mindlessly walking into a character's range. Learn to counterpick and outplay her.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

My best games are as Torb. had a 20 kill streak last night and I wasn't just hanging back and letting just the turret do work. Shotgun is so strong.

Usually hate playing as the go to OP character or class and hope that Torb isn't seen that way. Rarely see him being played though.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Did you watch the tournaments this weekend? There's no way it can be as boring as watching 4 McCrees trying to stun everyone. The competitive meta is pure trash to watch right now.

Having character caps will definitely help.

Yeah seriously. As bad as pubs are, if the game starts becoming more like competitive and not change, I'll just straight up stop. Does not look fun.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I'm not sure I see the issue here. Why is some sort of obvious hard counter necessary when there are numerous situational solutions, or counters available via teamwork? I really only see Widowmaker being an issue when playing with randoms, which is definitely unfortunate, but that doesn't mean her design is broken at the core. Flush her out with Winston or D.Va, and have a second team mate help take her out.

It's not bad design in and of itself. However, we should maybe be asking ourselves if it's good design for a class that can instakill you, see you through walls, and cover her back with proxy mines to only be countered by things like "sneaking up on her."

 

[Stone Ocean]

You can block his stun or dodge it, you can neither block nor dodge mei's freeze.

Also get out of range with winston? Then what?

My poitn is that most abilities have counters or ways to play around them, mei is the only one you have to just "not engage" her to "counter" which is absurd.

Staying out of her range doesn't mean not engaging. You have guns, she has a short ranged spray and no mobility, do the math.

 

[psyfi]

This is why Widow has issues.

Hahaha, whoa. Really though, that player was exceptionally talented, and shouldn't be used as a basis to judge any character's OPness. Not to mention there was a Mercy healing/buffing him the entire time, plus a few other team mates helping with kills.

Quickscoping and overly easy sniping is one of THE most annoying things in competitive FPSs to me, but I'm still not convinced Widow needs tweaking. Maybe I'll be more concerned in a few months from now when I see more players totally exploiting this stuff.

It's not bad design in and of itself. However, we should maybe be asking ourselves if it's good design for a class that can instakill you, see you through walls, and cover her back with proxy mines to only be countered by things like "sneaking up on her."

What? Sneaking up behind snipers is Competitive FPS 101. The only major issue I see here is that only a few classes have the height mobility to do so.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Lmao

So you don't actually play then

I was being rhetorical.

Stuns do not belong in any FPS, ever.

Hahaha, whoa. Really though, that player was exceptionally talented, and shouldn't be used as a basis to judge any character's OPness. Not to mention there was a Mercy healing/buffing him the entire time, plus a few other team mates helping with kills.

The game should be balanced from the top down. Widowmaker shouldn't be balanced around the assumption that most players can't aim.

What? Sneaking up behind snipers is Competitive FPS 101. The only major issue I see here is that only a few classes have the height mobility to do so.

But she has a myriad of ways to make sneaking up on her difficult. Wallhack ultimate. Proximity mines.

 

[wamberz1]

You can block his stun or dodge it, you can neither block nor dodge mei's freeze.

Also get out of range with winston? Then what?

My poitn is that most abilities have counters or ways to play around them, mei is the only one you have to just "not engage" her to "counter" which is absurd.

First off, dodging meis freeze is 10000000x easier than dodging mccrees.

Second, this game encourages hard counters. Their are matchups in this game that will be 10-0. For example, junkrat is great at countering mei. Just bombard her Dr a distance then drop a trap at her feet when she enters cryo.

 

[Antiwhippy]

It's not bad design in and of itself. However, we should maybe be asking ourselves if it's good design for a class that can instakill you, see you through walls, and cover her back with proxy mines to only be countered by things like "sneaking up on her."

I mean the maps are clearly designed for it. If you have a good tracer she'll be in the backlines harassing her or outright killing her enough.

 

[Wanderer5]

LOL

https://gfycat.com/AmusedCharmingCatfish

What the hell..

https://gfycat.com/UnimportantShinyBaldeagle

Woah at that second one. Sucks for that Mercy lol.

 

[AngryNeox]

Did you watch the tournaments this weekend? There's no way it can be as boring as watching 4 McCrees trying to stun everyone. The competitive meta is pure trash to watch right now.

Having character caps will definitely help.

Well a cap of maybe 2 would be ok. But I can already see something like "Lucio, McCree, Winston, Zarya, Reaper and a situational pick" to become the meta with only one per team.

Also the no limit just shows which heroes are broken. McCree is just super strong even without stacking.

 

[Squire]

i would love to know what type of people blizzard focused tested this game on

"omg aiming is too hard, how am i suppose to hit people if they keep moving!?"

"ok we added console style aim assist/snapping and ridiculously large hitboxes and projectile/bullet sizes even tho its a m&kb game. how about now?"

"sometimes i can land shots but its still too hard yo!"

"ok, we gave almost every character an ability where you just press a button to freeze your enemies in place. can you hit them now?"

"its still hard, farmville and bejeweled blitz never gave me this much trouble!"

"ok, with absolutely nothing required of you an ultimate will charge up. just press q for results. how is it now"

"omg this game roxx!!!"

There's plenty of shooters out there just for you, pretty sure. CSGO is free. Play that.

 

[Trace]

Hahaha, whoa. Really though, that player was exceptionally talented, and shouldn't be used as a basis to judge any character's OPness. Not to mention there was a Mercy healing/buffing him the entire time, plus a few other team mates helping with kills..

I understand she shouldn't be balanced around a pocket mercy, but she would be balanced around the assumption a player can actually aim. And if the Widow can, she's absolutely mental. 80% of those kills she would have gotten without the Mercy, and she basically held a whole team back by herself.

 

[ramyeon]

I have honestly never had an issue with any character's stuns in this game, Mei included. "Stuns don't belong in any FPS" is a silly blanket statement and within the context of Overwatch I think they work fine.

It honestly sounds like the people complaining have just had a few bad rounds against Meis and are salty about it.

 

[Antiwhippy]

First off, dodging meis freeze is 10000000x easier than dodging mccrees.

Second, this game encourages hard counters. Their are matchups in this game that will be 10-0. For example, junkrat is great at countering mei. Just bombard her Dr a distance then drop a trap at her feet when she enters cryo.

Speaking of which, is there a hard counter for junkrat?

Because fuck that guy.

I do tend to have good luck chasing him down with D.va.

 

[Apathy]

Speaking of which, is there a hard counter for junkrat?

Because fuck that guy.

I do tend to have good luck chasing him down with D.va.

pharah\

zarya in a way, cause of all her shields + absorb bubble, and mccree cause he likes to counter everyone

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Speaking of which, is there a hard counter for junkrat?

Because fuck that guy.

I do tend to have good luck chasing him down with D.va.

Pharah can fly.

 

[icecold1983]

No, it's terrible design. You should never be completely useless in an FPS, ever. Fuck headshots (oneshots) so hard.

do you honestly not see the difference between headshotting someone(not in this game because the aiming is lol) and simply pressing a button to freeze someone/everyone in your screen?