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[SuperAndroid17]

Reaper is basically a Flow-chart Ken.

For nubs

 

[WonkyPanda]

What I found to be crucial to being handy with winston is focus on being the center of attention while also being the most annoying guy in the room.

Your tesla gun does low damage but it's constant and auto aims, it can also shred through almost any character in the offense and support categorys really quickly.

Don't focus too much on doing damage but just hold the trigger down and jump pack around the room while throwing your shield randomly and then ult when you need to clear a site. Winston is definitely one of the most useful tanks.

His leap is on a 3 second cool down. It's critical to always be leaping. Winston is a tank that excels at causing chaos. Jump. Shied. Hit. Jump. Etc. His ultimate it also beastly as it heals you to full health and sends people flying.

If you run head in as him, you're going to get wrecked. Always leap behind, around, etc.

He's a hugely underrated hero. He does depend on good team synergy but can be unstoppable with good teamwork

 

[HariKari]

Nothing from Blizzard atm but they have nerfed him before in beta. It's hard to say though because I think there should be more time for more new ideas to come out, even Seagull says that teams will eventually find a better team comp than 2 mccrees and it's back to "lets nerf that now"

Mcree is fine. People just hate the flashbang, because it feels "unfair". When you go down a lane a Hanzo or Widow is watching and they take your head off, you think "oh, hey, shouldn't have gone that way." Snipers are an FPS staple and something everyone understands how to avoid. Same thing with a smart Mei or Junkrat. "Guess I need to watch choke points and where I step."

But with Mcree, for some reason people don't stop and think "maybe I shouldn't be in this guy's wheelhouse." It's perfectly okay to get your head blown off clear across the map by a super easy to play Widowmaker but for some reason Mcree makes people lose their shit.

He isn't hard to kill. Aforementioned snipers make quick work of him. He's vulnerable to spam in general due to low mobility. A decent 76 should beat him in a straight up fight at mid range quite easily. A good Mcree is terrifying, sure, but so are a lot of heroes. He doesn't need a major reworking, just his flashbang tweaked in terms of AOE and perhaps cooldown. Pros use him because he has the benefits of a direct damage dealer while also bringing utility to the table with a flashbang and his ult, which is great for zoning. Double tracer is common in control but I don't see a lot of calls for her to be nerfed. They should focus on the characters that rarely get picked and instead look to make them more usable.

 

[zonezeus]

Any pointers? He's the one character I struggle with.

What I found to be crucial to being handy with winston is focus on being the center of attention while also being the most annoying guy in the room.

Your tesla gun does low damage but it's constant and auto aims, it can also shred through almost any character in the offense and support categorys really quickly.

Don't focus too much on doing damage but just hold the trigger down and jump pack around the room while throwing your shield randomly and then ult when you need to clear a site. Winston is definitely one of the most useful tanks.

Pretty much this. Don't overextend yourself, don't go for the kill if you're not 100% sure you can get away with it, use your jump and use it OFTEN both offensively to get deep behind the enemy and defensively to get out of hairy situations. Don't go after heavily armored characters like D.Va or Reinhardt, tesla gun is crap against armor. Target healers and squishy offensive characters instead, pop shield when they spot you and focus fire on you, jump out as soon as the shield is down or even sooner. And two useful tips: you can leap further/higher if you jump before engaging the jetpack and make sure you reload when you can (yeah, I know it sounds silly but with tesla gun it's easy to forget that it actually needs reloading) Practice on Ilios, Gibraltar and Temple of Anubis, I think they are the most Winston-friendly maps out there.

 

[Triscuitable]

So why are complaining about Mei when McCree is much worse for that

That's a fallacy of false equivalence. McCree is undoubtedly one of the most powerful heroes in the game as of late, and is in dire need of adjustment. At the same time, I feel Mei has some issues that should be looked into so as to improve the playing experience for everyone.

Is she broken? No. Is she overpowered? Absolutely not. Is she fun to play against? If you ask me, definitely not. She is, simply put, unpleasant. Not because she's difficult to escape or to counter, but because she's not fun to engage, when you don't completely destroy her, she completely destroys you.

There's simply something about her that is simply not fun to play against. And that's before I mention all the teammates I've played with whose stupidly placed walls ruin everything (but those are so few and far between that it's not worth anything beyond a passing mention).

 

[FeD.nL]

Junker has the better colour scheme imho! But I'm still jealous

I really was in the Junker camp but then I noticed Scavenger has extra details on top and the choice was made.

 

[packy34]

Because McCree can instantly stun and kill you while Mei at least gives you some time to respond if you're a certain hero. McFlashbang? The only heroes mobile enough to survive the initial burst and evade him are D. Va and Winston, both of which fall to a ranged poke, assuming you're the only one doing damage to them.

The design ethos behind Mei is completely different from that of McCree. But rather than being difficult to contend with in a 1v1 like Mei, McCree can literally win all of those battles as long as he engages with a cool head.

Tanks? Fan-flash-roll-fan. Anyone else? Flash-fan. It's brainless and stops the game's pacing when a McCree rolls in from out of nowhere, stuns you from a stupidly long range, rolls in, and fans you down. All he needs to do is wait on a brief flashbang cooldown, and he can do it again. And again. And again.

Not to mention McCree's ultimate locks down an area for six seconds, and he can cancel it for 50% charge. Additionally, he's actually really strong at midrange combat; so strong, in fact, that with good accuracy, you can put down 200HP heroes down with a bodyshot and a headshot (not that most McCree players realize this, because they're so busy cheesing his dominant strategy).

The fact that he's so dominant at a range and up-close, in addition to his very forgiving ult (compared to pretty much every other ult in the game) is why he's so popular in competitive Overwatch. He's got a pickrate of approximately 120%, meaning he's present on every team, and often picked twice, because he's just that good.

Two things:

His flashbang doesn't have that much distance to it. I don't understand what you mean by "stupidly long range". You need to be within slapping distance to use it reliably.

His ult, while forgiving in terms of the 50% charge cancel, actually kind of sucks for doing damage. All experienced players will immediately hide when they hear IT'S HIGH NOON. It also leaves him slow and wide open to easy widow headshots while he's trying to lock on. I rarely get more than 2 kills with a single use of it, and 2 isn't even that common anymore. It's not reliable at all to use in most situations; I generally end up saving it as a desperation move near the end of a round.

The only nerfs I could suggest for him would be to add a second or 2 to both his ability cooldowns and/or reduce his ranged damage. Make him more focused on close to mid-range.

 

[Firestorm]

High Noon isn't so much about the kills so much as forcing them off the point.

 

[RandomExpletive]

more fun games tonight, weird last one where a really solid comp was shutting us down. A good junkrat/rein/mcree. We had all the classes we needed but werent doing anything so I just swapped to pharra (my best class) and bam apparently they cant shoot anything more than 5 feet off the ground, and we take it to last for the win. Really weird how some teams fall apart even when they're running your counters...


the double mcree is real though... ITS HI-ITS HIGH NO-NOON

DR-DRAW!

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

That's a fallacy of false equivalence. McCree is undoubtedly one of the most powerful heroes in the game as of late, and is in dire need of adjustment. At the same time, I feel Mei has some issues that should be looked into so as to improve the playing experience for everyone.

Is she broken? No. Is she overpowered? Absolutely not. Is she fun to play against? If you ask me, definitely not. She is, simply put, unpleasant. Not because she's difficult to escape or to counter, but because she's not fun to engage, when you don't completely destroy her, she completely destroys you.

There's simply something about her that is simply not fun to play against. And that's before I mention all the teammates I've played with whose stupidly placed walls ruin everything (but those are so few and far between that it's not worth anything beyond a passing mention).

You don't like her because she's not easy for you to kill?

ok

 

[Antiwhippy]

That's a fallacy of false equivalence. McCree is undoubtedly one of the most powerful heroes in the game as of late, and is in dire need of adjustment. At the same time, I feel Mei has some issues that should be looked into so as to improve the playing experience for everyone.

Is she broken? No. Is she overpowered? Absolutely not. Is she fun to play against? If you ask me, definitely not. She is, simply put, unpleasant. Not because she's difficult to escape or to counter, but because she's not fun to engage, when you don't completely destroy her, she completely destroys you.

There's simply something about her that is simply not fun to play against. And that's before I mention all the teammates I've played with whose stupidly placed walls ruin everything (but those are so few and far between that it's not worth anything beyond a passing mention).

That just feels like opinion rather than something that is specific.

Like, I find junkrat unpleasant when I get caught in his traps and then get blasted away. He basically plays the same role in area denial except he does it in a distance.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I'll side with anyone who thinks Mei isn't fun to play with/against.

The only time the experience is alright is when I play with a GAF Mei.

 

[ShadowsFell]

Using Reinhardt's rushing attack to smash someone into a wall for an elimination is probably one of the most satisfying things in the game for me.

 

[Triscuitable]

You don't like her because she's not easy for you to kill?

ok

Read my post again, because that's not what I said.

I don't like playing against Mei because there's only a handful of ways to engage her: keep your distance and shoot her down easily, take her down up close and back out with a mobility skill, or evade her.

It's not that she's difficult to kill, rather her limited abilities make fighting her an extremely bland and one-note experience. It doesn't feel like she adds anything to the game. She doesn't detract anything, either; she's just there.

 

[Gryph]

That's a fallacy of false equivalence. McCree is undoubtedly one of the most powerful heroes in the game as of late, and is in dire need of adjustment. At the same time, I feel Mei has some issues that should be looked into so as to improve the playing experience for everyone.

Is she broken? No. Is she overpowered? Absolutely not. Is she fun to play against? If you ask me, definitely not. She is, simply put, unpleasant. Not because she's difficult to escape or to counter, but because she's not fun to engage, when you don't completely destroy her, she completely destroys you.

There's simply something about her that is simply not fun to play against. And that's before I mention all the teammates I've played with whose stupidly placed walls ruin everything (but those are so few and far between that it's not worth anything beyond a passing mention).

If this thread is anything to go by, I'm in the minority...

But I don't have any less or more fun fighting Mei, she seems just like fighting everyone else to me. She has a different kit, but I don't find it anymore of a deal than the others...

Anecdotal, I know, but still... people like me are out there.

 

[MarioHead3]

I decided to ignore everyone's suggestions and I bought Yeti Hunter.

Spoiler

No regrets.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Read my post again, because that's not what I said.

I don't like playing against Mei because there's only a handful of ways to engage her: keep your distance and shoot her down easily, take her down up close and back out with a mobility skill, or evade her.

It's not that she's difficult to kill, rather her limited abilities make fighting her an extremely bland and one-note experience. It doesn't feel like she adds anything to the game. She doesn't detract anything, either; she's just there.

Who do you enjoy fighting then?

I don't really understand this perspective of characters being "not fun to engage," I just clean them all up

 

[spiritfox]

I decided to ignore everyone's suggestions and I bought Yeti Hunter.

Spoiler

No regrets.

Well I like it.

 

[R0ckman]

Mcree is fine. People just hate the flashbang, because it feels "unfair". When you go down a lane a Hanzo or Widow is watching and they take your head off, you think "oh, hey, shouldn't have gone that way." Snipers are an FPS staple and something everyone understands how to avoid. Same thing with a smart Mei or Junkrat. "Guess I need to watch choke points and where I step."

But with Mcree, for some reason people don't stop and think "maybe I shouldn't be in this guy's wheelhouse." It's perfectly okay to get your head blown off clear across the map by a super easy to play Widowmaker but for some reason Mcree makes people lose their shit.

He isn't hard to kill. Aforementioned snipers make quick work of him. He's vulnerable to spam in general due to low mobility. A decent 76 should beat him in a straight up fight at mid range quite easily. A good Mcree is terrifying, sure, but so are a lot of heroes. He doesn't need a major reworking, just his flashbang tweaked in terms of AOE and perhaps cooldown. Pros use him because he has the benefits of a direct damage dealer while also bringing utility to the table with a flashbang and his ult, which is great for zoning. Double tracer is common in control but I don't see a lot of calls for her to be nerfed. They should focus on the characters that rarely get picked and instead look to make them more usable.

I agree with you 100%, I do run from McCree if I know he is aware of my presence before shooting him in a 1 on 1. No one should be walking up to him for a direct 1 on 1 duel. That's his throne. Not sure while people can't get that. You can try ambushing him too.

 

[Blizzard]

Is she fun to play against? If you ask me, definitely not. She is, simply put, unpleasant. Not because she's difficult to escape or to counter, but because she's not fun to engage, when you don't completely destroy her, she completely destroys you.

There's simply something about her that is simply not fun to play against.

I feel these same sentiments apply to Tracer (or even worse, double Tracer), which is also why I think it's so key the flashbang remains as a counter for her.

 

[Gryph]

I decided to ignore everyone's suggestions and I bought Yeti Hunter.

Spoiler

No regrets.

Follow your heart...

 

[Antiwhippy]

Read my post again, because that's not what I said.

I don't like playing against Mei because there's only a handful of ways to engage her: keep your distance and shoot her down easily, take her down up close and back out with a mobility skill, or evade her.

It's not that she's difficult to kill, rather her limited abilities make fighting her an extremely bland and one-note experience. It doesn't feel like she adds anything to the game. She doesn't detract anything, either; she's just there.

Well what does fighting her have to do with her being just there? She's there to block off chokepoints, stop enemy advancements, lock specific targets for your team to kill, block off bastions/turrets. Not everything about overwatch is about the 1vs1 battle, which is what attracted to me to the game.

 

[m4st4]

His leap is on a 3 second cool down. It's critical to always be leaping. Winston is a tank that excels at causing chaos. Jump. Shied. Hit. Jump. Etc. His ultimate it also beastly as it heals you to full health and sends people flying.

If you run head in as him, you're going to get wrecked. Always leap behind, around, etc.

He's a hugely underrated hero. He does depend on good team synergy but can be unstoppable with good teamwork

Indeed. Try switching to him on Route 66 Defense, final point. With good enough team they won't get through.

 

[KuroNeeko]

My most played character is Mei. She's fun as hell. She reminds me of playing a hybrid Druid back in Warsong Gulch (or trolling in the Barrens) back in Vanilla / Burning Crusade because she's a slippery, undying motherfocker that's annoying as heck. I just don't really like her skins that much...

Spoiler

Sorry sorry sorry!

I balance it out by having Lucio as my second most played character.

 

[Haly]

Mei is, what's known in the biz as, "anti-fun"

 

[Estellex]

What I don't get about this game is that this game is about a week old and yet there are some really good players.

How do they get so good. I know a lot of people play during beta, but it can't be that many people that played.

 

[MarioHead3]

My most played character is Mei. She's fun as hell. She reminds me of playing a hybrid Druid back in Warsong Gulch back in Vanilla / Burning Crusade because she's a slippery, undying motherfocker that's annoying as heck.

I balance it out by having Lucio as my second most played character.

Those are also my two most played characters.

Edit: Wait, when did I become a regular member?

 

[IvanJ]

Using Reinhardt's rushing attack to smash someone into a wall for an elimination is probably one of the most satisfying things in the game for me.

Yeah, just recently I got the PotG for plowing down three opponents in Nepal while at the point. More luck and their lack of attention than my skill, but I'll take it.

 

[aka_bueno]

Any pointers? He's the one character I struggle with.

Winston is my most played (barely) so I have a few pointers...

His weapon doesn't do incredible damage and has a short range, but it's an auto targeting cone of effect weapon so keeping DPS on a target is easy.

Winston shouldn't really be front of the line attacking other tanks, he is meant to be harassing the other team's backlines.

Target and prioritize the other teams support heroes and other squishes and just stay on them. Other important targets are snipers, use your leap to get where they are and go harass and try to kill them!

Your leap ability is just as much an escape tool as it is an engager. Use your leap to surprise and get into the enemy backlines, then shield and try to stay in your shield while you attack. Then leap out if things get dicey.

Winston doesn't have a heal, so know where the health packs on maps are and use them any time you're running low. His bubble shield is on a long timer so use it wisely either while attacking to protect yourself or to protect your teammates on an objective.

His ultimate is great at dispersing enemy groups and causing panic. His melee while in ultimate form knocks back, so on maps with ledges or cliffs, you can get some good environmental kills.

Overall Winston isn't a heavy damage dealer but his skillset allows him to consistently get behind the enemy team to harass and kill their support/snipers/squishes. He has a lot of health but isn't capable to sustain himself so get in and do your damage then get out while you can. Don't overstay your welcome, you can't heal to prolong your attack, only leap away and survive.

 

[Haly]

What I don't get about this game is that this game is about a week old and yet there are some really good players.

How do they get so good. I know a lot of people play during beta, but it can't be that many people that played.

1) Ex TF2/Quake players will have a huge edge. Even good CS/BF players will have a advantage
2) MOBA players will understand how to coordinate with their teams intrinsically.

 

[packy34]

What I don't get about this game is that this game is about a week old and yet there are some really good players.

How do they get so good. I know a lot of people play during beta, but it can't be that many people that played.

9.7 million people played the open beta.

 

[Triscuitable]

Like, I find junkrat unpleasant when I get caught in his traps and then get blasted away. He basically plays the same role in area denial except he does it in a distance.

Junkrat is a far more complex hero. He can send enemies flying away, bring them to him, use his trap to move faster or higher, throw down his beartrap to stun, and works in area denial. His ultimate isn't difficult to shut down, but it's very powerful, and can really change up the flow of the match.

Mei doesn't do that. She can throw up her wall and obstruct her enemies just as much as her teammates, freeze and regen (helpful to her but not really interesting), and provide some limited and risky crowd control with her primary attack. Her secondary attack is difficult to use at a range, but its utility is at least somewhat there.

Her ultimate is just kind of disappointing, though. It's good at controlling an area, but its limited duration and the ease of escaping it make it rather ineffective in a lot of modes (but not KOTH, where her skills are actually able to shine). McCree's ult is far better at area control, and if it doesn't go off, he gets to keep half its charge. Simply hitting Q as him is enough to clear a room, and then you don't even need to fire a shot. Just cancel and keep your 50%.

If you ask me, she's great on KOTH, but Junkrat is a very similar defender in the role he takes; his approach is just a lot more explosive.

I feel these same sentiments apply to Tracer (or even worse, double Tracer), which is also why I think it's so key the flashbang remains as a counter for her.

It actually exists to shut her down in the first place. It's just that FTH is so ludicrously powerful that it shuts down basically everyone else, too.

Who do you enjoy fighting then?

I don't really understand this perspective of characters being "not fun to engage," I just clean them all up

Heroes that mix up the battle, like Genji and Zarya, are really interesting opponents to combat, because engaging them can be just as important as keeping them in view without giving them a means to kill you.

They are, as a result, also really fun to play. Simple heroes, like S76 and Reaper, are also fun to engage, as they offer a simple but challenging means of engagement where the person with better aim wins the fight.

I don't like how Mei either dies pathetically easily, or completely shuts you down and kills you. That's not interesting, and it's not exciting.

If you think Mei is fun to fight, more power to you; I just think she's boring and not fun.

 

[Data West]

Reaper is basically a Flow-chart Ken.

For nubs

No, that's 'Flashbang, right click'

 

[nOoblet16]

I've posted this before, but in the sense that Overwatch is a design commentary on TF2 balance, Mei is a pretty straightforward statement that Pyro was just a badly designed character relative to the rest of the crew. There's a reason he very rarely showed up in competitive, and it's because, while he may have felt fair to the receiver, he was pretty terrible to play because you had to work way harder than everybody else. Note that I have lousy aim so I played quite a bit of Pyro.

I just can't agree with your first paragraph. It takes two seconds or so for Mei to freeze you. If you're unable to react in that time, then you probably shouldn't be taking that corner by yourself. Mei has zero mobility options. You can actually have a reasonable idea of generally where she might be at all times.

If you're having that much frustration with Mei I would just recommend switching to one of the characters that beats her for free. I know that there are a bunch of people who find her intolerable but I have to say I very rarely find anything she does unfair, unless I'm against a really good Mei.

Actually the ice wall provides her with some decent mobility

 

[finalflame]

Spoiler

sigh

 

[Sesuadra]

Junkrat gets the POTG a lot.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Heroes that mix up the battle, like Genji and Zarya, are really interesting opponents to combat, because engaging them can be just as important as keeping them in view without giving them a means to kill you.

They are, as a result, also really fun to play. Simple heroes, like S76 and Reaper, are also fun to engage, as they offer a simple but challenging means of engagement where the person with better aim wins the fight.

I don't like how Mei either dies pathetically easily, or completely shuts you down and kills you. That's not interesting, and it's not exciting.

If you think Mei is fun to fight, more power to you; I just think she's boring and not fun.

It just sounds like you've come across bad Mei users both as enemies and teammates and have written off the character as a result, which is fine

 

[KingBroly]

I'm still having a lot trouble learning KB/M for this. So many commands I don't know and so many things I can't quite pull off naturally. I'd use a controller if Aim Assist was a thing on PC.

Any suggestions on how to make me better at KB/M?

 

[Triscuitable]

Actually the ice wall provides her with some decent mobility

It's passable. The problem with a defender like Mei versus Junkrat is that both specialize in area denial, but Junkrat is able to get into the fight an awful lot quicker. That doesn't necessarily make the wall pointless, but if we're considering it a mobility option, it leaves a lot to be desired.

A clever Mei can use the wall to deny players an escape route, or keep the enemy team at bay. That's why I really enjoy fighting with and against her in KOTH; played well, she can really change up the playing field.

...or she can just throw it up in front of her teammate's ultimate abilities and forget she can press "E" to take it down again (whoops).

It just sounds like you've come across bad Mei users both as enemies and teammates and have written off the character as a result, which is fine

Eh, maybe so. I just think she's lackluster outside of KOTH.

Agree to disagree?

Any suggestions on how to make me better at KB/M?

Turn mouse sensitivity down. Way down. I play with my mouse configured to 550DPI at a sensitivity of 8 in-game. That lets me make precision shots with ease as characters like Soldier: 76 and Hanzo. When I'm playing someone who demands a bit more twitch reaction than finesse, I bump up my DPI to 650 so I can play Repaer and Roadhog.

 

[Trace]

Spoiler

sigh

Brun Zenyatta has some dope as fuck legendaries. He's also actually quite good.

I'm still having a lot trouble learning KB/M for this. So many commands I don't know and so many things I can't quite pull off naturally. I'd use a controller if Aim Assist was a thing on PC.

Any suggestions on how to make me better at KB/M?

Play more. It's all mechanical reflexes.

 

[nOoblet16]

I'm still having a lot trouble learning KB/M for this. So many commands I don't know and so many things I can't quite pull off naturally. I'd use a controller if Aim Assist was a thing on PC.

Any suggestions on how to make me better at KB/M?

So many commands??

 

[Firestorm]

I jumped into the air as for a perfect ult as Pharah and then hit R instead of Q thinking I was playing League of Legends or something rip

 

[Fusilli Craig]

Played a game in which six Torbjorn's were defending on Hollywood. Blizzard, God damn it, create a draft system or limit heroes to one per team.

 

[MarineMountie]

Mei has gotten the majority of my play time. In all that time i'm fairly certain that i am 0 for 203 against McCree. Can anyone name a harder counter than a McCree on a Mei? I cannot. Gengi on a Bastion comes to mind, but its not a sure thing.

 

[MarioHead3]

I jumped into the air as for a perfect ult as Pharah and then hit R instead of Q thinking I was playing League of Legends or something rip

RELOAD BARRAGE INCOMING!

 

[StayDead]

I decided to ignore everyone's suggestions and I bought Yeti Hunter.

Spoiler

No regrets.

I brought Firefighter Mei, no regrets either.

 

[ANDS]

Mei single handheldy ruined this weeks arcade. One Mei is a pain with Ice Wall on no cool down. Two and it's a nightmare. A nightmare of unfun.

 

[finalflame]

Brun Zenyatta has some dope as fuck legendaries. He's also actually quite good.

He's a total bore to play IMO. Mediocre at everything he tries to do and an easy target for basically any character. I think I kill more Zenyattas than anything else with all my offensive mains.

No thanks.

 

[Triscuitable]

Mei has gotten the majority of my play time. In all that time i'm fairly certain that i am 0 for 203 against McCree. Can anyone name a harder counter than a McCree on a Mei? I cannot. Gengi on a Bastion comes to mind, but its not a sure thing.

Mei is a pretty terrible counter to McCree, considering he can flash-fan her dead. Anyone who needs to get close to McCree to kill him is basically dead.

A better counter would be Pharah, who can stay out of his fan fire range. She's still in his single-fire range, but a lot of McCree players don't realize "hey, this is actually a pretty good single-fire gun", so you can just juggle him around with your rockets and piss him off.

 

[MarioHead3]

Mei single handheldy ruined this weeks arcade. One Mei is a pain with Ice Wall on no cool down. Two and it's a nightmare. A nightmare of unfun.

Six Meis vs Six Zaryas.

Nobody wins.