I said it the other day that i think since she is so aim centric with her support ability, that she doesn't have a good chance of becoming meta or a viable comp at high levels consistently. Even great aimers can miss shit in the middle of action with everyone moving around. I would prefer just having Zen being able to fling his healing plus the discord ability.
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Overwatch |OT5| 15 Million Strong, None Are On The Payload
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I said it the other day that i think since she is so aim centric with her support ability, that she doesn't have a good chance of becoming meta or a viable comp at high levels consistently. Even great aimers can miss shit in the middle of action with everyone moving around. I would prefer just having Zen being able to fling his healing plus the discord ability.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
No, I've seen top level ana play and that's honestly not a problem.
The problem was always that discord + speedboost are just too powerful as far as abilities go. 2 abilities that are getting nerfed.
Like really, hit 60-70% of your shots and you're healing fine honestly.
The problem was always that discord + speedboost are just too powerful as far as abilities go. 2 abilities that are getting nerfed.
Like really, hit 60-70% of your shots and you're healing fine honestly.
As far as healing goes, Ana and Zen face the same challenge of "missing" teammates when they're clustered together in the chaos. While Zen doesn't have to shoot his heals, the lock-on targeting is very flaky when players are overlapping and clustered together at a chokepoint or on the payload. If the team works well together and the healer is smart, this is not a huge problem at all.
Newtype-001
Member
Watching this all i could think is why didnt you boost. Probably could have made it to the point :3
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Also zen's healing isn't spectacular honestly. It works for his kit but we're talking about 30HPS vs up to 150hps burst healing. Problem is that it didn't matter in the deathball meta because everyone is dying super quick anyway, but hopefully those days are gone.
If sustained fights are more common ana is honestly pretty strong.
If sustained fights are more common ana is honestly pretty strong.
This is definitely true. As a Zen player I can't really keep friends alive if we're talking about a real sustained battle, what we do is push hard with discord, and people who are dying need to know when to back off just so I can heal them before they push back into the fight. That also means tanks are often never at full health if the squishier dps heroes need to be recharged. Thankfully because discord is SO GOOD, these moments don't last long and once the enemy team is wiped everyone can heal up leisurely.
That's why an extra Lucio is a must when the enemy team is putting up a challenge.
Or to put it another way, Zen is best played as an aggressive debuff who also heals, like how Dva is a flanking tank rather than a defensive one.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Ana underrated af as a healer. In the middle of a big fight you can heal a couple teammates for 100 each instantly (and maybe hurt a couple enemies) and then easily keep them healthy by just no scoping like a mad man. And at the end of a fight you'll probably have an ult.
If you have 2+ tanks with those big ass hit boxes in the front line, and the enemy doesn't kill the Ana (who admittedley has to be in the middle of the fray in this scenario) quickly, then you'll win almost every team fight.
If you have 2+ tanks with those big ass hit boxes in the front line, and the enemy doesn't kill the Ana (who admittedley has to be in the middle of the fray in this scenario) quickly, then you'll win almost every team fight.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
For a being that's all about peace and tranquility the death part of his kit is better than the peace part. 
I don't know why people expect me to tank everything at the front all the time.
They won't take a tank then anymore and I am the only "tank". Fuck them. I want to flank the Cree, Widow and their healer so that you don't get shut down 100% of the time. ;__;But when there is a second tank...
Earthpainting
Member
How about Genji's deflect can be extended to wrap around him 360° like a Winston barrier, but the new barrier is composed of slashing swords, neon dragons, and random Naruto fanart that gets streamed straight off Deviantart. Furthermore the next Overwatch short should be about all the characters going to a United Nations summit to sign an agreement to never shoot at Genji, and promise to congratulate him every time he uses his ult.
Not that I play Zenyatta all that much, but I agreed with all of this. I treat Zenyatta's healing a bit like Soldier 76's. It's nice if you can top people off that are around you, but it's best to not rely on him as a dedicated healer too much in the heat of battle.
Newtype-001
Member
death is whimsical todayFor a being that's all about peace and tranquility the death part of his kit is better than the peace part.
I don't know why people expect me to tank everything at the front all the time.
But when there is a second tank...
Dva is best used as cover for flankers to being with. Not the main group charging through the front. Fast characters like Soldier, Tracer, and Genji going in with a Dva who draws fire and deflects with the matrix can totally destroy enemies distracted by the front assault.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Well too bad, because reinhardt is your man.
Honestly though you can also run zarya+winston as a super aggressive tank duo, but if you want to solo tank wellllll.
Honestly though you can also run zarya+winston as a super aggressive tank duo, but if you want to solo tank wellllll.
Reinhardt and Zarya are the only two real tank-tanks in the game. That you cannot play one well and find the other boring probably just means you shouldn't be tanking in a team.
Reinhardt is always a better pick for groups unsure of the level of corporation from their teammates. He is predictable. reliable, and even the worst players should understand how to take advantage of a Reinhardt.
Zarya is without any doubt the best tank to use when in a group if anyone in the group is even half-decent playing her. If a group is coordinated there's almost no reason to need a Reinhardt.
What is a debuff?
That sounds fun! I've been getting better with Zarya, although I always over estimate my defence and end up dying right when I'm like 75+ charge and have just popped my ult.
Reinhardt and Zarya are the only two real tank-tanks in the game. That you cannot play one well and find the other boring probably just means you shouldn't be tanking in a team.
I don't tank often, other than as D.Va, because she's not really a tank. I'm working on getting better with Zarya though! She's difficult to play, but really fun. Reinhardt on the other hand...bleh.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Reinhardt and Zarya are the only two real tank-tanks in the game. That you cannot play one well and find the other boring probably just means you shouldn't be tanking in a team.
Reinhardt is always a better pick for groups unsure of the level of corporation from their teammates. He is predictable. reliable, and even the worst players should understand how to take advantage of a Reinhardt.
Zarya is without any doubt the best tank to use when in a group if anyone in the group is even half-decent playing her. If a group is coordinated there's almost no reason to need a Reinhardt.
No, I really don't agree with running zarya solo. She's amazing, but she doesn't have a gigantic blue rectangle with 2000HP.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Zarya and Roadhog work great together. Hog charges her up like crazy.
I'm talking about a full group where everyone is on chat and knows each other though. I would absolutely not recommend running Zarya solo if there is any doubt about unfilled roles, but if you know you have DPS that will be able to flank the enemy, you have Lucio and Zen on support, there's really no need for the huge shield. Of course in this case, I'm looking at offense > defense. There's no need to shield from dead players.
Zarya can die really quick if the enemy team decides to focus on her, and that's a waste of her strong charge. On the other hand, if the enemy team cannot focus exclusively on her because they keep getting flanked, and if the Zen acts as a pocket healer for Zarya and discords anything she aims at, it can be really hard to counter that. In fact, that was most of my fun yesterday lol.
The opposite of a buff. Like when Zenyatta puts a huge purple sweatdrop on Winston and suddenly he's made of paper.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Come to think of it what's with the animal motifs when it comes to tanks? Winston is winston, roadhog the pigshark, DVA the rabbit bug & reinhardt the lion. Zarya is a bear I guess?
Zarya wrestles bears.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Man that should have been a skin.
So many of the summer games one should have been a skin.
Pharah's would just be her same suit except that she shoots exploding basketballs.
At least I'll always have americree.
Also I feel that blizzard is not so subtly positioning roadhog as the bear. Dat nipple piercing.
Ugh, I played as Hanzo yesterday for the first time. He's so boring. I just love characters with a lot of movement abilities and those who can take on multiple roles.
Hanzo is just the guy who sits back and shoots. Easy to get kills with, but they don't feel particularly satisfying.
Hanzo is just the guy who sits back and shoots. Easy to get kills with, but they don't feel particularly satisfying.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Hanzo can be played super mobile though. Like, the best hanzos that I've seen are constantly sticking and moving. Most people play him as a midrange skirmisher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjyyTLvn84k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjyyTLvn84k
I think it's between Gods and Seagull as the best Hanzo player in the world. Granted I have not seen many but it feels like they are up there for sure.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Kyb is pretty good with him too.
I think any dps player who's proficient in projectiles is good with him. He's the projectile version of mccree.
I think any dps player who's proficient in projectiles is good with him. He's the projectile version of mccree.
ivanthebearable
Member
Been playing a LOT more Attack Symmetra lately, she's so damn helpful that I'm starting to convert people to it haha. Even getting PoTG's and everything.
Hate the current meta of 2-2-2 so trying things people don't expect is a blast.
Hate the current meta of 2-2-2 so trying things people don't expect is a blast.
blueyesdevil
Banned
In QuickPlay?
ivanthebearable
Member
blueyesdevil
Banned
So what is your gameplan? Put turrets on the payload? I know the offense teleporter does wonders and I have been destroyed by a symmetra on PTR once, I wonder if it was you lol.
Rein IS NOT boring, in fact, if your team of DPS is even mildly competent you can join in on the fun. The problem is that a lot of people don't have the patience to play Rein or deal with him unless teams focus him down (and if they can afford to you are on a terrible team).
You can get in the really tense Rein vs Rein battles. Typically what I do is bait out a charge and let him crash somewhere behind me and pray my team punishes the charge. I will only charge if I can kill the healer or a key player who strays too far and the charge doesnt put me waay out of position of my team. Because Earth shatter has no warning I like to save ot for ult pushes or ult disruptions, I catch a lot of people in it so its a bit crazy trying to kill them all even after I charge through them. Also like to save it for Genji ults, sometimes its good for spooking the Genji if I use it on his team because he has to decide if he wants to use his ult to save his team or attack as many people as he can, so I force him to make a choice.
You can get in the really tense Rein vs Rein battles. Typically what I do is bait out a charge and let him crash somewhere behind me and pray my team punishes the charge. I will only charge if I can kill the healer or a key player who strays too far and the charge doesnt put me waay out of position of my team. Because Earth shatter has no warning I like to save ot for ult pushes or ult disruptions, I catch a lot of people in it so its a bit crazy trying to kill them all even after I charge through them. Also like to save it for Genji ults, sometimes its good for spooking the Genji if I use it on his team because he has to decide if he wants to use his ult to save his team or attack as many people as he can, so I force him to make a choice.
ivanthebearable
Member
I place turrets on chokepoints similar to how you would on Defense, but the other way around, and find moments to slip away while a teammate is distracting other players. The turrets make sure that overextended defenders get punished hard and allow us some breathing room to push up without worrying too much about really aggressive attackers or flankers. Not foolproof since this requires lots of communication with the team to let 'em know what you're doing and what you are gonna do next.
Then, if I have my tele ready I go off and place it completely unknown to anyone, and if not I sneak around and use her death noodle while they're not paying attention, usually on Lucio/Mercy first but sometimes tanks that are completely ignoring me.
If I get my ult really early, I place it next to any place my team is having trouble passing to allow us to really be aggressive with our pushes. Otherwise I flank and place. Numbani, Route 66, Eichenwalde and Hollywood have good spots for that
PayOffWizard
Member
My thoughts on the tanks.
Reinhardt
- Best for payload maps.
- Beginner friendly but has a very high tactical / skill ceiling
Zarya
- Extremely powerful but steep learning curve
- Amazing Ult that can turn games
- Most reliant tank on your team having a healer and benefits greatly from a second tank. / good team comp. ( Kinda garbage when playing in a pub with 5 attack heroes)
Roadhog
- Best tank when solo tanking / Not reliant on your team having a healer.
- Under rated in my opinion.
Diva
- The best tank for people who enjoy DPS characters
- Easy to learn
- Not the best "tanking" tank. More of a tank assassin.
Winston
- Very situational / comp specific, will dominate a game with targets like tracer, widow, genji, mercy, lucio, and the absolute counter to symmetra.
- Weak vs all other tanks
I think that's subjective. I don't want to stand around with a shield, and the times I have chosen him, the shield seems to break instantly because I get focussed down.
I've seen some people who are really good with him, I just don't enjoy it.
Nice summary. Thanks.
Red Arremer
Member
Blizzard trying to balance Hanzo:
Earthpainting
Member
Reinhard can be kind of unreliable in pub matches sadly enough. Once people start trickling, which they'll do regardless of how much you advise them not to, you'll often end up alone with a maybe just healer. Once you start lacking any firepower behind your shield, you might as well switch heroes. All you're doing at that point is building enemy ults.
I usually find Zarya to be pretty reliable when you're defending with pubs. What Zarya needs, is have people who are willing to walk ahead of her from time to time. When I'm defending in Volskaya Industries this happens all the time. As long as the rest your defence team isn't a combination of Hanjo, Widow, Torbjorn, Bastion, and Mercy, Zarya should be able to do well there.
I do agree with the others that I feel safest with a Roadhog and/or Zenyatta with me though.
Winston is the secondary tank you want if you are holding the point. Winston is the secondary tank you really don't want if you're trying to take the point.
This also applies to KotH, where he is super useful if your team takes the point early and you can mostly hold it. If the other team takes the point early and you're trying to regain it, he is much less useful.
tl;dr: Winston is the Bastion of tanks.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Blizzard trying to balance Hanzo:
I mean he's always been just kinda not great.
Maybe he'll be good this time?
So I like that Blizz are looking at a solution for hero stacking on QP, but I'm a bit torn.
On the one hand, played against a six bastion comp that made the game totally not fun. Same with a double bastion, double torb behind a rein shield at a choke point on anubis.
But on the other hand, one of the best games I've ever played was doubling up Winston with my friend to capture the point on KotH.
So I hope whatever they come up with works for everyone, because there's legit strategy to stacking on some heroes, but in other cases it can sap the fun out of a game.
On the one hand, played against a six bastion comp that made the game totally not fun. Same with a double bastion, double torb behind a rein shield at a choke point on anubis.
But on the other hand, one of the best games I've ever played was doubling up Winston with my friend to capture the point on KotH.
So I hope whatever they come up with works for everyone, because there's legit strategy to stacking on some heroes, but in other cases it can sap the fun out of a game.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Double Winston is like one of the reasons why pros don't want stacking, because it's too overpowered of a combo.
There was a point where koth is pretty much double Winston plus double lucio.
There was a point where koth is pretty much double Winston plus double lucio.
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