optimus8936
Banned
Definitely.
Like, generally your carry heroes should consist of:
1-2 DPS
1-2 tanks
1 healer
You don't even have to have a carry healer, but a carry DPS/tank will go a long way.
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Overwatch |OT5| 15 Million Strong, None Are On The Payload
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Like, generally your carry heroes should consist of:
1-2 DPS
1-2 tanks
1 healer
You don't even have to have a carry healer, but a carry DPS/tank will go a long way.
Also, the worst thing you can do is to go "oh im a healer, so I cant affect the game as much, woe is me, my team isnt carrying me" this is horseshit. You can carry as a healer, but you have to be really fucking good at the healing class. The shit ive seen from some mercies and Zens, and some Anas and some Lucios man. Absolutely insane.
If you can't carry as a healer, then get good enough to overcome that barrier.
Mei + Zenyatta combo is amazing
If you can't carry as a healer, then get good enough to overcome that barrier.
Mei + Zenyatta combo is amazing
MarioHead3
Banned
It doesn't matter how long you prolong your teammates' lives if they can't hit shit.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Again, I kinda think the concept of carrying is kinda bullshit?
Like often times I will see my teammates bitching about one enemy carrying the other team but I've seen the other players doing just as much work, even if it might not be as visible.
You might think you're hot shit but give your team some credit.
Like often times I will see my teammates bitching about one enemy carrying the other team but I've seen the other players doing just as much work, even if it might not be as visible.
You might think you're hot shit but give your team some credit.
optimus8936
Banned
I agree wit you, but I feel that carrying with Lucio or Mercy are probably the hardest to carry with out of all heroes because they heavily rely on their team because they are mostly about supporting their team. If there team is shit, there isn't much they can do but watch. At least Zen and Ana can support their teammates while being able to do some massive damage to the other teams.
I think Zen is probably the best carry healer because his healing+healing ult are great and his DPS is insane.
DevilDog
Member
I think you might have missed some context, I can't make sense of this post.
A good hanzo will most likely be a nearby wall, he can use it to juke her a bit, all while gaining distance from her. He can start charging his shots in mid air while jumping backwards, minimizing the shotgun damage.
And doesn't D.va have a 1 second delay between absorptions? Shoot a normal arrow and then bait her out, then use the scatter. Otheriwse, she will die to 2 headhots. D.va is glued to the ground, its impossible to miss her head.
You die in less than 2 seconds to D.va?
If she uses shield while approaching him it means he will get a free hit after she starts firing, and after that she is 1 arrow away from dying.
Again, talking about mekka form.
optimus8936
Banned
Do you know how much damage Dva does? And how long it can take to fully charge a Hanzo shot?
And this is all considering the Hanzo doesn't fuck up and miss the scatter.
And this is all considering the Hanzo doesn't fuck up and miss the scatter.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
You are underestimating how disorientating getting knocked around by meka is. DVa can knock you and be behind you firing.
MarioHead3
Banned
D.Va puts out way more than enough damage to beat Hanzo at that range.
Are we comparing some kind of special shit D.Va to Seagull or something?
optimus8936
Banned
I don't think of carrying as "my team is shit and I'm the only one doing anything"
I think of it as a case of "I'm performing out of my mind and doing far better than the rest of the team"
Carrying is more of a case of being the leader of your team. I don't think of it as a case of you're team just being out right shit. Something as simple as taking the lead and charging in can really help build team confidence and your team is thinking "follow this man and work with him"
That's the way I look at carrying.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
As someone who plays DVA pretty much exclusively in comp now, at least on PC, you can usually kill the Hanzo, but the finishing blow is going to come once you've been forcefully ejected out of your mech.
If the Hanzo is halfway decent, his point blank dps, not counting scatter, will end your mech's life fairly quickly. Your dps will take a hit as he jukes/jumps while shooting at your stationary face.
In diamond ranks anyways.
If the Hanzo is halfway decent, his point blank dps, not counting scatter, will end your mech's life fairly quickly. Your dps will take a hit as he jukes/jumps while shooting at your stationary face.
In diamond ranks anyways.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Again though, how much of it is your perception vs reality.
Because everyone has bias and tunnel vision in regards to their own performance.
Because everyone has bias and tunnel vision in regards to their own performance.
The goal of carrying is not to win every match. You can carry and sitll lose if your team mates suck as well. Could you have theoretically carried harder? I think so in most cases. But theoretically, if you carry well, you have a much higher chance of winning compared to not carrying. All you can do in games decided by other people is to improve your chances of winning. its awful to carry and lose (you saw me last night
) but man, what else do you have to do? And this is also assuming that you arent killing people yourselves. I can play as Lucio and 3-4k damage, im doing a great job, he also has the best ability for environment kills in the game. Mercy has the most devastating ult in the game when used correctly. Igve seen mercies who just would not die, as they flew between person to person. A single ult can destroy a game, completely cancel out an ult spam, and completely flip momentun. Also, you have a pistol, it is really good actually.There are definately classes that are harder then others. Lucio though is very easy to be "competent" as. Sometimes, your best chances are to play Lucio as a 50% chance to win is better then the 0% chance you had earlier with your no healer team on KOTH maps.
Ultimately, if you main those classes, then you should be always focusing on always getting better.If you aren't able to carry then you should theoretically stay in the same spot.
Im not denying my teams existence, hence why I always say hi to everyone to raise up morale and also do whatever I can to improve the team. But once again, I say, if you arent able to carry, then you have a 50% of winning and you'll stay in your placement. You're thus dependant on your teammates, which is fine. No one is saying it's bad
This is just common statistics, and what you should be working on to get better. You want to do whatever is the moist efficient thing to do win.
MarioHead3
Banned
I choose to believe I carried my team here:
https://youtu.be/44yCp1XhC00?t=1m45s
Papa was the real MVP though.
You can statistically look up your stats and see your medal placements and also you should be real about your performance. Part of getting better is recognizing your faults and fixing them
optimus8936
Banned
I mean, if you have a game where your getting, say, 50+ elims and 15k+ damage as a DPS or an off. tank, you're probably playing out of your mind. Or in the case of a healer, you'd have like 20k healing.
You can also tell if you get a card at the end and you get a bunch a votes. That's usually the best sign.
MarioHead3
Banned
Sounds like what you're saying is just "git gud."
I'm pretty sure that's not what "carry" means.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
That team was super horrible. Also do you play on console? Didn't watch the whole thing, but the camera movement is super stilted.
MarioHead3
Banned
Yes they were, and yes I do.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Yes, you can improve above your skill level. My one issue with carrying though is that most of the time it's implied to be a solo effort. Which seems a bit arrogant in a team game.
Like taking the 50 elims concept from optimus, I had 50 elims as mei/zarya, but only got silver, and gold wasn't that much more, and I didn't get a card. Was he carrying me then? Or did we just play great as a team?
This actually did happen.
Like yeah, you can play out of your mind every game statistically and basically be the reason your team won every game, but statistically it's probably more likely that you also found some great teammates to work with.
MarioHead3
Banned
You were carrying each other, like a couple of kangaroos.
xaosslug
Member
4 healers + a deranged Rein + Reaper is a defence strategy I recently faced in competitive. It was literally the job of all the healers to keep the Rein alive while he rampaged everyone trying to come near the payload. My team had no idea how to deal w/ it and we lost. :/
honestly, thank you for typing this out. I actually expected some glib 'git gud' response. T__T
i had figured it would have something to do w/ carrying & Zarya. I'm trying to learn her, but it's hard in qp where peeps all just want to do their own thing and I feel like such a sitting duck. -__-
i would love to see a video about Zarya. Like when the enemy team focuses down on you... then what?
honestly, thank you for typing this out. I actually expected some glib 'git gud' response. T__T
i had figured it would have something to do w/ carrying & Zarya. I'm trying to learn her, but it's hard in qp where peeps all just want to do their own thing and I feel like such a sitting duck. -__-
i would love to see a video about Zarya. Like when the enemy team focuses down on you... then what?
optimus8936
Banned
Fair point. I think this is where having a scoreboard would benefit, so that people don't get all hyped because they carried with 4 gold medals.
If the game just had a scoreboards showing who got each tier of medals and how well they did in those tiers(how many elims, healing, etc.), I think that could help lessen the whole carry mentality a bit.
Wyndstryker
Member
Personally, I see carrying as having amazing gamesense and working with it.
Being able to identify the strenghts/weaknesses of your team and systematically work with it. In other words you're the one tilting situations to maximize your teams strengths while minimizing your weaknesses.
Being able to identify the strenghts/weaknesses of your team and systematically work with it. In other words you're the one tilting situations to maximize your teams strengths while minimizing your weaknesses.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Now I'm thinking of kangaroos being in each other pouches like an ouroboros.
That's not a pleasant image.
finalflame
Member
Most of the "carry" people came from MOBAs to OW and think that "carrying" works here. It doesn't, because MOBAs are fundamentally different from OW.
You can and should definitely always seek to improve as a player, but no single player is going to carry a team to victory unless either the other team is really bad/uncoordinated, or your team is actually good, in which case you are just playing well and not "carrying" shit. You can see this all the time when pro players queue even in QP, they often get their shut pushed in if they get a shitty team. If mendokusaii, surefour, TviQUe can't carry, your ass sure can't.
This is a competitive game, and thus you have to get better at the game. Ive lined up strats of what i do when i try to play and how to get better, but inevitably, people have specific limits they achieve and if you feel you can't do anything more to improve your game, then maybe you've hit your peak as a player (I doubt this is the case)
Yes people boast about their success, but once again, being hard on yourself is an incredibly useful trait in competition, so if you didnt actually carry and claimed you carried, your doing nothing but hurting yourself. Yes, I know my place as well (most of my bravado about being a god and such is just to joke around and kind of shit post.) There's around 3000 at the very minimum who are better then me at this game. That's a lot of people. Im really not that good at the game tbh.
This is real talk Jarate right here, but once again, im saying this from a statistical standpoint, you have a really good chance of winning when you put the pants on and dominate the game. If you lie to yourself and claim you dominated, then that's actively hurting you, so always be harsh on yourself. Remember, the best way too improve is by making a mistake. Sometimes, you gotta recognize that mistake
DevilDog
Member
That is what has been going on, D.va wins but only after she gets her mech destroyed.
We are comparing a hanzo that can headshot a huge stationary head, twice, in front of him, in a succession.
I don't understand, I've fought D.vas, this is never disorienting, you can always face the D.Va in whichever direction she happens to end at. If she starts firing, she gets scattered, and then she panick absorbs, and when she tries to fire again, mekka dies with a headshot, or even a normal shot.
Pilot D.va can destroy Hanzo after that though.
And I didn't evem bring in this discussion how easy it is for hanzo to escape by climbing ontop of a building.
optimus8936
Banned
I mean, I legit think there are some pro players out there who can legit carry. Some of them are that good. Some of the shit Seagull does on stream. And all of Envy can probably carry because they are all insane at everything.
I still think of carrying as just leading the team and supporting them by collapsing on their picks, switching when needed, etc., and not as a case that you are the only one on the team actually doing anything.
Wyndstryker
Member
This game desperately needs replay.
A lot of people think they're good just based off medals but there is no visual point of reference to compare directly. Now that I've started recording my stuff and watching replays, getting feedback etc, I can see directly where I can improve.
There are probably a lot of people here who can benefit from being shown their mistakes or having someone critique their play.
A lot of people think they're good just based off medals but there is no visual point of reference to compare directly. Now that I've started recording my stuff and watching replays, getting feedback etc, I can see directly where I can improve.
There are probably a lot of people here who can benefit from being shown their mistakes or having someone critique their play.
MarioHead3
Banned
Most people who know me know that I like to shit talk myself.
I can't tell if it's ever actually helped me or not.
finalflame
Member
Yah I've seen Seagull do crazy shit on stream. But that level of play is a far cry from what the average/high-average/good player can achieve; EVEN if you make it into Master rank, which I'm pretty sure most people here have not. Not on PC, anyways; I don't count the skill ceiling on console as the same thing. Also, you're talking about one of the best players in the world at OW.
My point though was that even Seagull on occasion gets his shit pushed in with randoms, as do other pro players. Remembering these are people so good at the game, they get paid to play on pro teams. And keeping in mind he's theoretically playing with players roughly his equal, or as close as it's gonna get, based on rank/internal MMR.
Nobody here is as good as the big name pros. Don't care if you're diamond/master/bordering grandmaster, you're just .. not. You don't practice daily, do scrims, and pretty much eat and breathe Overwatch. So you're anecdotal evidence of how carrying is possible because you got 4 gold medals in a game is null (not yours personally, just in general). It might've happened because the enemy team was just shit and couldn't coordinate, but if your entire team truly sucked and the opposing team was actually competent/good, you wouldn't have carried and would've just gotten shut down. I mean, I end most of my matches with 3-4 golds as long as I'm playing D.Va, and I know sometimes I played trash. It's pretty easy to be self-aware and have a good game, but the only times I've ever felt "shit I carried this HARD" was playing in QP with my buddy who's Lv. 25. I was just better than the Lv.150 on the opposing team and these were mostly new players, so, not a good measure of skill.
Theoretically both of you were carrying. Carrying is simply playing better then people on the other team. Maybe the fact that he was a reaper and was really good helped, And remember, this is implying as if playing together with random people isnt a good skill to learn onto itself if you play solo queue. Maybe you guys worked better as a group because you knew the meta and could work off eachother really well. Isn't that a skill that helps you win.
Doing well is your goal and you should always be trying to do well. It is possible for your entire team to carry a game, although most likely that game ends very fast (ive had game where ive been 14-0 or something as Zarya and we just rolled through)
Carrying in my mind is affecting the game in a way that you are able to improve your odds dramatically. Like i said, learning from your mistakes is your greatest asset. You are right, there are too many who will say they carry when they don't I do it to on occasion, because im a really competitive person. It's the fault of being competitive is the fact that you want to show everyone online how awesome you are with arbitrary MMR rankings. So that is a skill to improve your game. Always dissect it. Always look for ways to improve it. If something isn't working, try something else, learn to spend your time wisely in the game. Try to get better with classes you don't play.
TheThinWhiteDuke
Member
Free weekend is craaazy. Oppo team has 2 Gengis, 2 'Hogs, and 2 Widowmakers. The Widowmakers would not back down from my D.Va after I knocked them from their perches. Stand their ground and spray-and-pray. Every time. One finally got me out my mek and thought I was suddenly easy meat. Ground her up, bouncing around the whole time. Widowmaker Life Lessons: D.Va Pilot is no joke at mid when you have a hit-scan hero, and you RUN when a D.Va mek gets in your personal space.
It's fascinating to watch these young'uns and think, "Yep, I used to do that. And that. That too, sadly. Whelp, time for a Teaching Moment."
And for the record, I have not yet busted out a Winston just to scare the shit out of them. Saving it for a special moment. A stacked-Genji-team moment.
It's fascinating to watch these young'uns and think, "Yep, I used to do that. And that. That too, sadly. Whelp, time for a Teaching Moment."
And for the record, I have not yet busted out a Winston just to scare the shit out of them. Saving it for a special moment. A stacked-Genji-team moment.
Crimson_Justice
Member
Finally experienced griefing Symmetra. On ranked. So stupid.
MarioHead3
Banned
If everyone plays their best, you're more likely to win.
More at 11.
More at 11.
Can someone explain why we lost this game? Gibraltor, first round we are on attack and get it to a certain point, we get 1 point. On defense, we prevent them from getting as far as us and time runs out. They get 1 point, says defeat for us. Someone even messaged me in confusion, and I don't really know the answer for why.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Like I mean the core concept is good. Always looks to improve. Always play your best. I mean just doing that tips the odds in your favour for sure. I'm just not sure if overwatch is that much of a solo carry game as you're making it out to be.
It's tough to carry but it's possible. This game is really really hard to carry in though
also, I havent played a dota game in my life until Smite very recently which I played very sparingly.
Nuno Pinto
Member
Can't connect to Overwatch, it gives me a message that I was put in queue with ~30 players ahead of me. What the hell? I paid for the game and now I have to wait because it's free weekend? So dumb.
MarioHead3
Banned
Getting really good at the game will always help, of course. You can't consistently carry in this game though. Like, it's a super rare occurrence and just not something you can really rely on in such a heavily team-based game.
Also, lol Blizzard.
optimus8936
Banned
I just had 4 people DC on my team and 2 people on the other team.
Is something fucked right now?
It all happened at the same time too
Is something fucked right now?
It all happened at the same time too
LucidMomentum
Member
Still happens in 2300 rank lmao.
CMojicaAce
Member
Was able to get in on PS4 just now after a few tries. That was weird.
MarioHead3
Banned
Psychoward
Banned
servers are getting hammered because it's primetime on a Saturday night during a free weekend. If you're still having server issues Monday then yeah, that's fucked
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