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[FalconPunch]

The current state of PlayStation is reflective of the current state of leadership. We seen serious stagnation in the quality and creativity of games. There are far too many sequels, low risk remasters, and way too much trend chasing. All of this is unlike PlayStation and it needs to change rapidly.

While I understand the desire to chase profitability, it cannot come at the expense of innovation. In the hardware space, it’s undeniable, PlayStation is innovating. The controller, the ps5, psvr 2, etc. Even the ps5 pro is innovating in all aspects including the price. However, the same cannot be said about the software space. There have been some very huge misses recently by PlayStation and it’s tarnishing the ps5 generation. Concord, TLOU live service experiment, Marathon, Destruction Allstars, the purchase of Bungie have all been giant failed experiments. All these failures are the result of trend chasing. The problem with chasing trends is that due to the length of game development, the trend is often dead by the time the game releases.

Many have praised Insomniac for carrying Sony this gen. While I appreciate their efforts, I cannot say that their titles have been innovative. On the contrary, they’ve been safe. I don’t blame insomniac as they’ve had to carry all the others studios lack of output. Now we’re hearing news of a Horizon remaster which is safe. TLOU remaster, again safe. Until Dawn remake, again safe. Frankly, this is not what we’re looking for from PlayStation. It’s the platform holders responsibility to drive innovation in the software space for the continued growth of the platform. As it stands, ps4 users have been given very little reason to upgrade due to lack of software innovation.

People have harped on Jim Ryan as the cause of this but I find it surprising that no one is talking about Herman Hulst. In many ways, the stagnation of PlayStation software is a direct reflection of him. He lead GG and they made technically competent, safe, boring games. I’ll probably catch a lot of flack for this but Horizon is boring af, Shadow Fall was boring af. In fact, the last good game GG made was on the ps3. Their games have amazing visuals, passable gameplay and horrendous stories. PlayStation today is technically sound with technically competent games but no innovation. When we look at the type of games that came out in the ps3 and ps4 generation, it’s easy to see that there has been a regression in terms of innovation.

The most damning thing is the absence of mid tier games by PlayStation. Games made by smaller dev teams meant to fill the gap between big releases. Now they rely on indie developers to do so and frankly, it’s just not good enough. The structure of the software studios is just poor leading to very poor output. It’s so bad that we’ve seen a relative drought of releases for the platform. There have been good games like Astrobot, GT7, Returnal but it’s been very few. To truly understand how bad this gen would be, just imagine this gen without backwards compatibility. Can it stand on its own merit? Absolutely not.

 

[SweetTooth]

If Sony is the one missing creative leadership, what does that make Nintendo and MS?

Sony being the only one with diverse lineup covering most types of games!

Your basis is flawed and biased. Close this thread

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

Huh? Relative drought of releases? In the same year that we had Helldivers 2, rise of the ronin, stellar blade and astro?

Sony has been far more innovative this gen as compared to ps4( saying this as someone who considers ps4 to be his favourite console), yes a lot of things haven't planned out but that is always true when it comes to software development.

Also, if we consider new IP, according to rumours naughty dog are working on a new IP, SSM are working on a new IP, bend are working on a new IP, etc. How many new IPs do you want?

 

[Hookshot]

Concord, Fairgame$ and Marathon with be the holy trinity of gaming when they are released. Just wait and see.

 

[kaizenkko]

The most damning thing is the absence of mid tier games by PlayStation. Games made by smaller dev teams meant to fill the gap between big releases. Now they rely on indie developers to do so and frankly, it’s just not good enough

I enjoyed Stellar Blade much more than anything that Japan Studios release in the last 10 years (excluding co-developed titles). Kena, Stray and even Rise of the Ronin are all also good. I would prefer that they still exist, but I can understand why Sony have shut down the studio.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Checks notes... Astro Bot is one of the most creative games Sony has ever made and is primed to win GOTY... checks notes... this game was greenlit under Herman Hulst and Jim Ryan...

Just stop it.

 

[envyzeal]

They should put gaf polls to decide their next steps

 

[FalconPunch]

If Sony is the one missing creative leadership, what does that make Nintendo and MS?

Sony being the only one with diverse lineup covering most types of games!

Your basis is flawed and biased. Close this thread

The problem with your line of thinking is assuming that I’m interested in comparing PlayStation to Nintendo or MS. The mindset of at least I’m better than x is dangerous and leads to serious stagnation.

When you compare this iteration of PlayStation to the Ps4 iteration or the ps3 iteration and maybe even the ps2 iteration, it’s undoubtedly worse. That’s the only comparison I’m interested in.

 

[Elios83]

Blah blah, they just released a GOTY contender with Astrobot and published/financed many other hits including Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Helldivers 2, a highly rated Destiny 2 expansion and other quality titles like MLB and TLOU2 Remaster.
They're also about to publish Lego Horizon which is another fresh take on one of their IPs.

Who is doing better exactly in the gaming industry right now? Microsoft? Nintendo?

 

[That Damn Kid]

 

[Astray]

I think of things in this way: Sony is/was being run by a guy whose background is in sales (Jim Ryan), so what the organization essentially did during his tenure was cash in all the different chips the prior management created and go into the big obvious markets.

I think what saved them so far is management largely being on the ball in the retail space, and delivering juuust enough games so as to not be labeled completely comatose.

 

[HogIsland]

i totally disagree about hulst considering he became a known name on the back of Horizon an original playstation ip.

 

[Tsaki]

"When we look at the type of games that came out in the ps3 and ps4 generation"
I see a clear distinction: majority PS4 games sold, PS3 games did not.
If costumers wanted PS3-type games, they would have bought them when they released. They did not and instead bought the PS4 games (24.3 million+ for HZD as of April 2023, not counting the free copies given away ofc).
That is why Sony will make more Astro Bot games instead of idk, Puppeteer: because the public embraced the one and not the other.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

We have two new leaders who inherited this.
Let's give them a chance eh?

 

[lh032]

what do you mean?
We have herman.


Heres horizon mmo
heres horizon chess
Heres horizon racing
Heres horizon surrival crafting

 

[Hypereides]

I agree with the sentiment. Hermen definitely needs to get reshuffled back into just running Guerrilla. He isn't qualified for the role he supervises. If it were up to him, he'd probably turn all studios into Men in boxes' wet dream.

That said, Sony recently made an overhaul of the PS management with dual CEO leadership. Lets see how that will work out.

 

[IAmRei]

If Sony is the one missing creative leadership, what does that make Nintendo and MS?

Sony being the only one with diverse lineup covering most types of games!

Your basis is flawed and biased. Close this thread

Nintendo is the most creative among the three, and the most willing to take the risk with gameplay and presentation rather than brute force

 

[Physiognomonics]

i totally disagree about hulst considering he became a known name on the back of Horizon an original playstation ip.

Hulst was never a director or even producer of any game. He was the managing director of Guerrilla. Before that he was working in the marketing of Rayman. He is a manager and has actually a degree of management.

In Japan like at Nintendo they have (or had) producers which usually were themselves developers, designers or director of games. And the problem is some of those companies is that they are starting to replace those people by managers. Same cause will lead to the same effects.

 

[FR1908]

This applies to the entire industry, which never returned to its original state after the COVID catastrophe.

 

[Skifi28]

I have applied, but they haven't replied yet. I'll let you know.

 

[HogIsland]

Hulst was never a director or even producer of any game. He was the managing director of Guerrilla. Before that he was working in the marketing of Rayman. He is a manager and has actually a degree of management.

In Japan like at Nintendo they have (or had) producers which usually were themselves developers, designers or director of games. And the problem is some of those companies is that they are starting to replace those people by managers. Same cause will lead to the same effects.

this is what managing directors do. it would be wild to criticize hulst on the basis that he's a shitty animator

 

[adamsapple]

what do you mean?
We have herman.


Heres horizon mmo
heres horizon chess
Heres horizon racing
Heres horizon surrival crafting

Will wait for the Remasters.

 

[Yoboman]

This is an undebatable fact if you ignore all the games that disprove it

Check mate atheists

 

[AmuroChan]

The most damning thing is the absence of mid tier games by PlayStation. Games made by smaller dev teams meant to fill the gap between big releases.

I loved the likes of Puppeteer, Tokyo Jungle, Bound, Concrete Genie, MediEvil, Rain, and other mid-tier games, but the fact of the matter is that nobody bought those games. If those games were selling millions of copies, Sony would make more of them.

 

[Kupfer]

I’ll probably catch a lot of flack for this but Horizon is boring af, Shadow Fall was boring af.

No, you're 100% right.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I loved the likes of Puppeteer, Tokyo Jungle, Bound, Concrete Genie, MediEvil, Rain, and other mid-tier games, but the fact of the matter is that nobody bought those games. If those games were selling millions of copies, Sony would make more of them.

Sometimes one of those small games are a hit. For instance Ico was a small game before it got some success and its sequels. Jak & Daxter too. AstroBot also.

But even if all those games weren't profitable on their own, some people got invested into PS ecosystem and bought consoles, accessories and others games because of those small games. Overall those small loss leading games made money for Playstation. This is what managers will never understand.

 

[Hookshot]

Will wait for the Remasters.

I wanted to respond to this with a picture of Horizon lego remastered but while I was making it, I got a warning for shitposting so now I'm going to behave and not post it.

 

[Topher]

Concord, Fairgame$ and Marathon with be the holy trinity of gaming when they are released. Just wait and see.

Holy trinity? What are you talking about man?

 

[Hookshot]

Holy trinity? What are talking about man?

Please see the post above yours. I'm not going to comment of Sony products anymore until October 19th at 2.pm

 

[Shake Your Rump]

There are far too many sequels, low risk remasters, and way too much trend chasing.

It’s the world of “for the investors” instead of “for the gamers”.

 

[Msamy]

The current state of PlayStation is reflective of the current state of leadership. We seen serious stagnation in the quality and creativity of games. There are far too many sequels, low risk remasters, and way too much trend chasing. All of this is unlike PlayStation and it needs to change rapidly.

While I understand the desire to chase profitability, it cannot come at the expense of innovation. In the hardware space, it’s undeniable, PlayStation is innovating. The controller, the ps5, psvr 2, etc. Even the ps5 pro is innovating in all aspects including the price. However, the same cannot be said about the software space. There have been some very huge misses recently by PlayStation and it’s tarnishing the ps5 generation. Concord, TLOU live service experiment, Marathon, Destruction Allstars, the purchase of Bungie have all been giant failed experiments. All these failures are the result of trend chasing. The problem with chasing trends is that due to the length of game development, the trend is often dead by the time the game releases.

Many have praised Insomniac for carrying Sony this gen. While I appreciate their efforts, I cannot say that their titles have been innovative. On the contrary, they’ve been safe. I don’t blame insomniac as they’ve had to carry all the others studios lack of output. Now we’re hearing news of a Horizon remaster which is safe. TLOU remaster, again safe. Until Dawn remake, again safe. Frankly, this is not what we’re looking for from PlayStation. It’s the platform holders responsibility to drive innovation in the software space for the continued growth of the platform. As it stands, ps4 users have been given very little reason to upgrade due to lack of software innovation.

People have harped on Jim Ryan as the cause of this but I find it surprising that no one is talking about Herman Hulst. In many ways, the stagnation of PlayStation software is a direct reflection of him. He lead GG and they made technically competent, safe, boring games. I’ll probably catch a lot of flack for this but Horizon is boring af, Shadow Fall was boring af. In fact, the last good game GG made was on the ps3. Their games have amazing visuals, passable gameplay and horrendous stories. PlayStation today is technically sound with technically competent games but no innovation. When we look at the type of games that came out in the ps3 and ps4 generation, it’s easy to see that there has been a regression in terms of innovation.

The most damning thing is the absence of mid tier games by PlayStation. Games made by smaller dev teams meant to fill the gap between big releases. Now they rely on indie developers to do so and frankly, it’s just not good enough. The structure of the software studios is just poor leading to very poor output. It’s so bad that we’ve seen a relative drought of releases for the platform. There have been good games like Astrobot, GT7, Returnal but it’s been very few. To truly understand how bad this gen would be, just imagine this gen without backwards compatibility. Can it stand on its own merit? Absolutely not.

100% with you, I am always saying fu.. That cunt hirman hulst.

 

[Punished Miku]

Holy trinity? What are talking about man?

We're just talkin' about Jesus.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

another hit piece to my boy Hermen. you will be ashamed for your words and deeds... All of You!!!

 

[AmuroChan]

Sometimes one of those small games are a hit. For instance Ico was a small game before it got some success and its sequels. Jak & Daxter too. AstroBot also.

But even if all those games weren't profitable on their own, some people got invested into PS ecosystem and bought consoles, accessories and others games because of those small games. Overall those small loss leading games made money for Playstation. This is what managers will never understand.

PS is in a different place now. "Some" people is not enough people, and Sony has the hard data on who bought those smaller games and also invested heavily into accessories and the ecosystem as a whole. Clearly, the data they see is not convincing enough for them to invest in a ton of smaller games. They'll still make some, like Astro and Ratchet which are safe and has a wider appeal than the really obscure and experimental stuff that they used to make.

 

[yurinka]

The current state of PlayStation is reflective of the current state of leadership.

Yes, their leadership is responsible for Sony having now the best numbers they ever had in most areas and being in a multi-year growth in most areas, both classic and new.

We seen serious stagnation in the quality and creativity of games.

Total bullshit. Astro Bot or Helldivers 2 are awesome and very creative.

There are far too many sequels

Total bullshit. Around half of the first party projects under development are new IPs.

As an example this year they released Astro Bot (first "big" game of the IP), Concord, Stellar Blade and Rise of the Ronin, and have planned to release Lost Soul Aside and Convallaria.

There are new IPs in the works at Bend, Sony Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Haven, (almost) Bungie, the incubated team at Bungie, the ex-Deviation team and who knows if also in more places.

While I understand the desire to chase profitability

It isn't just a desire, it's something mandatory to keep the company working specially when they have more than two dozen games under development and many of them have budgets of over $200M.

the purchase of Bungie have all been giant failed experiments.

Total bullshit

All these failures are the result of trend chasing. The problem with chasing trends is that due to the length of game development, the trend is often dead by the time the game releases.

Big companies who invest a ton of money must invest mostly in what it works to make their investments less risky because if not they would be suicide.

Even if they obviously play it safe in many projects, Sony is the big publisher who invests more in new IPs and creative games.

People have harped on Jim Ryan as the cause of this but I find it surprising that no one is talking about Herman Hulst. In many ways, the stagnation of PlayStation software is a direct reflection of him.

Under their command new first party games released in 2020, 2022, 2023 and 2024 broke sales records for Sony first party games. These and other games won many awards and nominations and most of their games were the best selling ones for the dev studio that made them.

He lead GG and they made technically competent, safe, boring games. I’ll probably catch a lot of flack for this but Horizon is boring af, Shadow Fall was boring af.

Horizon was -and maybe still is- the best selling Sony game ever.

The most damning thing is the absence of mid tier games by PlayStation. Games made by smaller dev teams meant to fill the gap between big releases.

Not true. Games like Returnal, Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade or Astro Bot are made by mid sized teams. You could even include there the shorter rehashed spinoffs like Lost Legacy or Morales.

Now they rely on indie developers to do so and frankly, it’s just not good enough.

Not true. For PS5 there are more games being released every year than in any previous PS console. That includes tons of indies and AA games.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I couldn't have written truer words. PS Studios will become a poor man Ubisoft if the surfer is let loose for 2-3 more years. I fear that in the glorious day of his departure, all that is left is a wasteland of remastered and GaaS.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Yea, Sony's leadership is the problem . . .

 

[StereoVsn]

I can see some of that. They are making missteps with GaaS and are very dependent on constant remakes/remasters as well for a lot of revenue.

That said at least we have Astrobot and Sony didn’t immediately close the studio unlike some folks in Redmont.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I couldn't have written truer words. PS Studios will become a poor man Ubisoft if the surfer is let loose for 2-3 more years. I fear that in the glorious day of his departure, all that is left is a wasteland of remastered and GaaS.

In a year where Sony released Helldivers 2, Astrobot, there's Lego Horizon on the way, financed new IPs such as Stellar Blade and Rise of the Ronin and being the only console to play Silent Hill 2, Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, etc...and you mention Ubisoft?

Y'all are playing games that i'm not for real.

 

[Hrk69]

At this point I'm sure there's a God of War (2018) remaster incoming

 

[diffusionx]

Yes, their leadership is responsible for Sony having now the best numbers they ever had in most areas and being in a multi-year growth in most areas, both classic and new.

There's two aspects to being the leader of an enterprise like this. You have to do what you can do to maximize sales now while also making sure that you are well set up for the future. I think it's obvious that this iteration of Sony has been overall extremely successful with the former, until this year. The second, not so much. They really have not handled this gaas thing well. This reliance on remasters of new games is totally bizarre and feels like a cheap cash grab, which people get tired of really easily. While they're not there yet, it feels like they are falling into the trap that MS did in the early 10s when they decided to build their Xbox brand on the trilogy of Gears/Halo/Forza and not much else. Yea that made sense when those were three of the biggest franchises in the world, and it made sense from the POV of a sales guy who saw the charts and saw those three games selling millions every year, but what happens when people get tired of them? Well, we saw what happened. Xbox is a joke.

Likewise, Spiderman 2 was hugely successful, but there are signs of capeshit fatigue and even Spiderman 2 didn't get the reception from the fans that the older games did. If you're just focused on sales, you say "keep churning these shits out", but you need to have a long term horizon and a feel for what your fans are saying and may come to the conclusion that churning them out is not a good idea and Insomniac should be working on stuff other than more capeshit.

 

[fart town usa]

If Sony were smart they'd get the Nick guy from Team Asobi in a high level position when it comes to 1st party projects. Look at From Software and Miyazaki. Dude was essentially a new hire and then they made him president within a decade. That was a brilliant decision on their part.

Sony higher ups are lost. Hubris and ego it seems.

 

[DryvBy]

Nintendo Switch has put out the greatest hits from Gamecube, Wii and WiiU on the platform and you're talking about Sony? Who cares if they're putting out remasters and remakes? Don't buy them. Go buy all the other stuff that's out. We're in a point and time where we're getting more games than we can shake a stick at.

 

[tmlDan]

At the very least, wait until they announce their next set of games.

Your proof is what? they released Astro and its extremely creative. So far this assessment has failed. Remasters and remakes are not sign of creative bankruptcy, its more a sign of their actual games being pushed back more than they wanted and they have to fill gaps.

I'd say Sony, the company that constantly makes new IP's and lets old IP's rest, is not creatively struggling. I'd say that for other companies.

 

[fart town usa]

Nintendo Switch has put out the greatest hits from Gamecube, Wii and WiiU on the platform and you're talking about Sony? Who cares if they're putting out remasters and remakes? Don't buy them. Go buy all the other stuff that's out. We're in a point and time where we're getting more games than we can shake a stick at.

Thats true and there is definitely no shortage of quality games to play but Sony output this gen...yea there are some great games but the decline is real. Sales only go so far in the grand scheme of things. You got them showing off glass textures in a remake of a PS4 game for their Pro console...

Sony keeps stepping in it and burning cash/resources. It is what it is, I personally don't care because I lost interest in Sony developed games years ago, but it would be nice to feel a sense of excitement over the possibility of what they might be working on. They can easily reclaim the magic but it will require action and Sony right now seems like they are spinning their wheels.

 

[TheTony316]

Yeah, i've been a huge PS fan since the PS1 but it's getting annoying now with the remasters and Sony putting more and more games on PC and even Switch.

 

[K' Dash]

Checks notes... Astro Bot is one of the most creative games Sony has ever made and is primed to win GOTY... checks notes... this game was greenlit under Herman Hulst and Jim Ryan...

Just stop it.

this is how fanboys defend the shit PS have been feeding their audience, lol. It's been 4 years and they used PS4 games to present their hardware refresh, let that sink in. They didn't have ONE PS5 game to brag about the PS5 Pro, they used fucking TLOU2. Embarrassing.

 

[saintjules]

 

[playbignbox]

So many Sony fanboys are upset with the thread creator's opinion, I think they're happy with Sony making countless remasters like TLOU2, Horizon and Until Dawn (plus another one that should be announced at State of Play).

The sequels to Spider Man and GoW were good, but definitely below their predecessors and not very innovative.

Luckily, Sony has some good and creative games this generation, like Astro Bot, Returnal and Helldrivers 2... those are the only ones I would call creative and surprising coming from Sony this generation.

 

[demonstr8]

Yeah, you can tell by the way they operate that they are run by executives rather than someone with a deep understanding of the industry and what it takes for success. They treat it more like a bunch of film studios actually - only focus on the biggest and best.