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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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M

Mike M

Nick N
Will be interesting to see if his debate performance suffers and Gingrich stages yet another comeback.

Don't think it's likely, but a man can dream...
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Obama is a quite different opponent than Gingrich, I can understand this move. I doubt Romney will be nearly as confrontational or aggressive in a general election debate; Obama is more of a calm push over, a similar disposition to Romney's. He just needed to destroy Gingrich, and he did.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Obama is a quite different opponent than Gingrich, I can understand this move. I doubt Romney will be nearly as confrontational or aggressive in a general election debate; Obama is more of a calm push over, a similar disposition to Romney's. He just needed to destroy Gingrich, and he did.
Click to expand...

4/10.
 
R

remist

Member
empty vessel said:
Not trying to harp on you, but "still in trouble" has no content. It's too vague. I don't know what you are saying. In trouble about what? From what? The biggest threat we currently face is high unemployment. That amounts to more lost wealth than anything else imaginable.

S&P decision is irrelevant: http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=15580
Who is in charge?: http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=7838
Click to expand...

The reason I'm vague is I'm pretty much a layperson when it comes to economic issues. I guess I'm just getting messaging from both sides of the isle that unless we get the debt under control, I'm going to be passing on a problem that could cause default or hyperinflation down the road. I'm certainly not arguing from any position of authority and would have no problem being disabused of the notion that the deficit is a problem. It just seems too good to be true.

Those two articles, particularly the second one were a little over my head. I get that we aren't like Greece or Ireland and our Sovereign currency makes it hard if not impossible for us to be forced into default, but what is the limit? Will you ever see higher interests rates, a weaker dollar, or inflation or have I just been misled.

Oblivion said:
What do you mean by this? It's a very vague term. Limiting things like Social Security, Medicare, welfare and such? How about public education? Getting rid of the EPA?
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with Social Security, Medicare or welfare but I'm not against reforms if they're necessary. I'd like the federal government to have as little control as possible over curriculum, but I wouldn't completely cut the Department of Education. I don't know enough about the EPA to have much of an opinion. The biggest thing that has bothered me lately is the NLRB trying to stop the Boeing plant from moving to South Carolina.

Oblivion said:
Generally when people say this, they mainly mean focusing on spending cuts. What about tax hikes?
Click to expand...

I'm not totally against tax hikes, but I'd be hesitant to increase them unless absolutely necessary. I'm for the Buffett Rule, getting rid of unhelpful loopholes and I'm not against letting the Bush tax cuts expire.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
Narpas Sword0 said:
We can afford a whole lot more debt given the low interest rates we are enjoying on our loans
Click to expand...

We can still afford heaps more debt right now, yes, which is why it's absolutely mind-boggling that we aren't spending right now to improve infrastructure and transition to a public UHC system given that they'd VASTLY improve our fiscal situation in the long run (especially UHC).
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
PhoenixDark said:
Obama is a quite different opponent than Gingrich, I can understand this move. I doubt Romney will be nearly as confrontational or aggressive in a general election debate; Obama is more of a calm push over, a similar disposition to Romney's. He just needed to destroy Gingrich, and he did.
Click to expand...

Considering that Obama dismantled the Clinton political machine, and had one of the largest electoral victories in over a decade, I wouldn't call him a push over.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Measley said:
Considering that Obama dismantled the Clinton political machine, and had one of the largest electoral victories in over a decade, I wouldn't call him a push over.
Click to expand...

This is the same guy who told Clinton during a debate, "And I look forward to soliciting your advice when I'm President."

Ice-cold, Obama.
 
K

KingK

Member
remist said:
The reason I'm vague is I'm pretty much a layperson when it comes to economic issues. I guess I'm just getting messaging from both sides of the isle that unless we get the debt under control, I'm going to be passing on a problem that could cause default or hyperinflation down the road. I'm certainly not arguing from any position of authority and would have no problem being disabused of the notion that the deficit isn't a problem. It just seems too good to be true.

Those two articles, particularly the second one were a little over my head. I get that we aren't like Greece or Ireland and our Sovereign currency makes it hard if not impossible for us to be forced into default, but what is the limit? Will you ever see higher interests rates, a weaker dollar, or inflation or have I just been misled.



I don't have a problem with Social Security, Medicare or welfare but I'm not against reforms if they're necessary. I'd like the federal government to have as little control as possible over curriculum, but I wouldn't completely cut the Department of Education. I don't know enough about the EPA to have much of an opinion. The biggest thing that has bothered me lately is the NLRB trying to stop the Boeing plant from moving to South Carolina.



I'm not totally against tax hikes, but I'd be hesitant to increase them unless absolutely necessary. I'm for the Buffett Rule, getting rid of unhelpful loopholes and I'm not against letting the Bush tax cuts expire.
Click to expand...

You sound like a Democrat based on what you've said about your views, to be honest. You also sound open-minded and willing to listen to other views, which is good.

Plus you have a Fire Emblem avatar, so you at least have good taste.
 
R

remist

Member
KingK said:
You sound like a Democrat based on what you've said about your views, to be honest. You also sound open-minded and willing to listen to other views, which is good.

Plus you have a Fire Emblem avatar, so you at least have good taste.
Click to expand...

Well I called myself a conservative, but I guess I'd be considered a moderate or an independent these days.
 
K

KingK

Member
remist said:
Well I called myself a conservative, but I guess I'd be considered a moderate or an independent these days.
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Yeah, I'm guessing you'd have a much better chance of some moderate Democrats sharing your views than any modern Republican.

I mean, when compared to most other western countries, the Democratic party would be considered moderate conservative/right-of-center, and the Republican party would be considered extreme right/fucking insane.
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
Measley said:
Considering that Obama dismantled the Clinton political machine, and had one of the largest electoral victories in over a decade, I wouldn't call him a push over.
Click to expand...

I'll go ahead and say it.

Obama hasn't been nearly as tested as we would like to think he is.

Obama was coming off a terribly disliked president, an anger towards republicans, and a weak republican nominee. He also had a tougher time with Hillary, but lets be real here, he was, and is still, more charismatic, the potential of being the first black president, and the ability to woo anyone with speeches crafted more artfully than a Picasso.

2012 will be the true test for Obama.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
remist said:
Well I called myself a conservative, but I guess I'd be considered a moderate or an independent these days.
Click to expand...

Thanks for answering the questions. And yes, given what you've stated about your policy positions, you'd be somewhere between Castro and Stalin.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Measley said:
Considering that Obama dismantled the Clinton political machine, and had one of the largest electoral victories in over a decade, I wouldn't call him a push over.
Click to expand...

We're talking debates. Obama didn't outperform Clinton in most of the debates, in fact it was the opposite.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
PhoenixDark said:
We're talking debates. Obama didn't outperform Clinton in most of the debates, in fact it was the opposite.
Click to expand...

I don't actually agree with this - they were even at best - but Obama has also gotten much better during his run as president at debating, as we saw with his utter dismantling of the House GOP when they invited him to come debate them. He'll be fine dealing with Romney.
 
D

Dr. Pangloss

Member
I go to NY Times and this is the lead story:

Activists Fight Green Projects, Seeing U.N. Plot

Across the country, activists with ties to the Tea Party are railing against all sorts of local and state efforts to control sprawl and conserve energy. They brand government action for things like expanding public transportation routes and preserving open space as part of a United Nations-led conspiracy to deny property rights and herd citizens toward cities.

They are showing up at planning meetings to denounce bike lanes on public streets and smart meters on home appliances — efforts they equate to a big-government blueprint against individual rights.

The protests date to 1992 when the United Nations passed a sweeping, but nonbinding, 100-plus-page resolution called Agenda 21 that was designed to encourage nations to use fewer resources and conserve open land by steering development to already dense areas. They have gained momentum in the past two years because of the emergence of the Tea Party movement, harnessing its suspicion about government power and belief that man-made global warming is a hoax.

Echoing other protesters, Ms. McCoy identified smart meters, devices being installed by utility companies to collect information on energy use, as part of the conspiracy. “The real job of smart meters is to spy on you and control you — when you can and cannot use electrical appliances,” she said.

But some local officials argue that the programs that protesters see as part of the conspiracy are entirely created by local governments with the express intent of saving money — the central goal of the Tea Party movement.

Planning groups, several of which said they had never heard of Agenda 21 until protesters burst in, are counterorganizing.

“The Tea Party people say they want nonpolluted air and clean water and everything we promote and support, but they also say it’s a communist movement,” said Charlotte Moore, a supervisor who voted yes. “I really don’t understand what they want.”
Click to expand...

This is just weird. Of all the things to be mad about, they pick some non-binding resolution the UN signed 20 years ago. Never heard of this Agenda 21 till tonight.
 
R

remist

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
Don't listen to Oblivion.

Hey man, if you are interested in exploring where your political ideologies lay, start with this test!

All of us here are done it, post your results if you are comfortable, good luck!

http://www.politicalcompass.org/
Click to expand...

Some interesting questions on there.

31LDQ.png
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
I'll go ahead and say it.

Obama hasn't been nearly as tested as we would like to think he is.

Obama was coming off a terribly disliked president, an anger towards republicans, and a weak republican nominee. He also had a tougher time with Hillary, but lets be real here, he was, and is still, more charismatic, the potential of being the first black president, and the ability to woo anyone with speeches crafted more artfully than a Picasso.

2012 will be the true test for Obama.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen anything that would indicate that Romney is somehow a stronger opponent than Hilary Clinton was. Romney's success so far has largely been about how completely deficient the field is.

Dr. Pangloss said:
I go to NY Times and this is the lead story:

This is just weird. Of all the things to be mad about, they pick some non-binding resolution the UN signed 20 years ago. Never heard of this Agenda 21 till tonight.
Click to expand...
NYT said:
The Republican National Committee resolution, passed without fanfare on Jan. 13, declared, “The United Nations Agenda 21 plan of radical so-called ‘sustainable development’ views the American way of life of private property ownership, single family homes, private car ownership and individual travel choices, and privately owned farms; all as destructive to the environment.”
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
They don't even bother with a counter-argument. All of that is true.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
A27_StarWolf said:
Would anyone be opposed if we went into Syria to help them out? Just a thought.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't support it. It's a sad situation but it's time the US stopped playing World Police, especially in the middle east. We'd just prop up another shitty government that decides to oppress whatever group of people lost power in the uprising.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
remist said:
Those two articles, particularly the second one were a little over my head. I get that we aren't like Greece or Ireland and our Sovereign currency makes it hard if not impossible for us to be forced into default, but what is the limit? Will you ever see higher interests rates, a weaker dollar, or inflation or have I just been misled.
Click to expand...

Yes, you have been misled, but also, yes, there is a limit to government spending. The limit to government spending is indeed inflation, but where you have been misled is in how inflation occurs. Government spending does not per se create inflation. Inflation occurs when too much money chases after too few goods, but that can scenario won't occur merely by government spending alone. If the economy has slack in it, then government spending (money creation) will create demand for goods, which will be used not to raise prices but to hire people and utilize currently idle capital to fulfill the demand.

See http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=10554
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
We haven't really talked about that Komen fiasco, but here's a great point that John Cole made that just makes a dirty lib feel GOOD, for once:

I’ve been having a ball this week with the Komen shit-show. Not just because it was such a hideous blunder and there was so much hourly incompetence to chronicle, but because GOD DAMNED IT FEELS GOOD TO BE ON THE OFFENSIVE.

Say what you will about all the wingnutty things I said 2001-2005ish, at least I was looking for a fight with the opposition party and going after them. Since I became a Democrat, it seems like the only time we ever get our damned dander up is with other Democrats. The rest of the time we are on defensive, linking to logical explanations from TAPPED or Kevin Drum, talking about negotiating, etc. Or spending our time dealing with dipshits in our own party, like that jackass Rosen who tried to sink Sotomayor. Or we spend all our time angry about the stupid things teahadists do and say and snark about it, but nothing ever comes of it and they never pay a price. Or, as often is the case at this website, wailing about our worthless media.

This time, though, was different. It was nice to watch everyone go for blood, and sink their teeth in and get some. That’s what we need in the Democratic party. We need a killer instinct. We need to stop putting up with this bullshit from these crazy people. We need to fight back, we need to start running for local elections and state elections and running the show, and we need to go after them every chance we can. We don’t have to stoop to lies and innuendo, we can go after them with the truth, just like we did this time. They are lying about tax and regulatory burdens. They are lying about social security. They are lying about Obamacare and Medicare and Medicaid. They are lying about the environment and global warming. They are lying about poor people and black people and gay people and immigrants. They are lying about Obama. They are lying about everything.

There is nothing noble or wise about trying to have rational arguments, or acting like the mature people when you are dealing with fanatics. This stuff is important. You should be pissed off and fighting mad.

God damned this feels good for a change. God damn I am fired up for November 2012. No prisoners. No backing down. Republicans don’t want to negotiate or govern with you, they want you dead. So either reach down and grab a pair and fight back, or take what they give you. Your choice. I’ve made mine. And as we have seen this week, if you fight, and you don’t put up with the bullshit, people will join you and we will win.
Click to expand...

Preach it, brother!
 
T

Tim-E

Member
Great unemployment numbers, Romney reinforcing the image that he's a rich asshole who can't relate to the common person, the enormous public backlash against Susan G. Komen; this has been a great week for democrats.
 
M

Mike M

Nick N
Tim-E said:
Great unemployment numbers, Romney reinforcing the image that he's a rich asshole who can't relate to the common person, the enormous public backlash against Susan G. Komen; this has been a great week for democrats.
Click to expand...

+ WA marriage equality.
 
X

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
Black Republican said:
anyone feel sorry for Santorum? after the iowa win and large christian leader backing he's gone nowhere
Click to expand...
The man should never have had a national stage from which to profess his idiocy from. He embodies what is wrong with this country.

Oblivion said:
We need to fight back, we need to start running for local elections and state elections and running the show, and we need to go after them every chance we can. We don’t have to stoop to lies and innuendo, we can go after them with the truth, just like we did this time. They are lying about tax and regulatory burdens. They are lying about social security. They are lying about Obamacare and Medicare and Medicaid. They are lying about the environment and global warming. They are lying about poor people and black people and gay people and immigrants. They are lying about Obama. They are lying about everything.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Real talk right here. The facts are on our side, use them. Over and over.
 
H

Hop

That girl in the bunny hat
WowBaby said:
Batten down the hatches Dems, the War of 2012 is upon us.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/03/koch-brothers-100-million-obama_n_1250828.html

Let's see who wins the fund raising wars.
Click to expand...

Here's a funny thought I just had. They're spending $100 million. They're putting that money into the economy. They're hiring advertisers, filmmakers, video editors, all sorts of staff to make their ads. Ads which will probably, among other things, blame Obama for the economy.


They're improving the economy, to say the economy's not improving.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
PhoenixDark said:
We're talking debates. Obama didn't outperform Clinton in most of the debates, in fact it was the opposite.
Click to expand...

I know you were a huge Clinton supporter, but you are completely wrong here. I know debates are not necessarily that important in the general election, but I would argue that they are quite important in primaries. Obama beat Clinton due to many factors, one of which was his debate performances.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
Would anyone be opposed if we went into Syria to help them out? Just a thought.
Click to expand...
I don't remember which old PoliGAF megathread the posts would be in, but you should look through my/Jackson50's post history from around the time when the Libya intervention was being discussed-we both opposed it, and we talked about some reasons to be skeptical about the ability to impose change from without, whether you're coming from the neoconservative or the liberal interventionist perspective. It's indicative of the arbitrariness of the rationale for the Libyan intervention that there have been over twice the number of casualties in the Syrian uprising that there were in the Libyan uprising, and yet most of the response from the Western world in the former case has been, "Guys! Stop!"
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
A27_StarWolf said:
I'll go ahead and say it.

Obama hasn't been nearly as tested as we would like to think he is.

Obama was coming off a terribly disliked president, an anger towards republicans, and a weak republican nominee. He also had a tougher time with Hillary, but lets be real here, he was, and is still, more charismatic, the potential of being the first black president, and the ability to woo anyone with speeches crafted more artfully than a Picasso.

2012 will be the true test for Obama.
Click to expand...

You act as if Romney is the second coming of Reagan. Romney is arguably as weak, or weaker than John McCain was. Romney LOST to McCain in 2008.

At least conservatives could rally behind McCain. They can't do that with Romney without completely compromising their ideological beliefs.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Nevada caucuses today. Main caucuses are also underway. Don't really think it merits its own thread.

PPP has Romney at 50, Gingrich at 25, Paul at 15 in Nevada; Nate Silver's projections are about the same. Delegates are awarded proportionally.

Random: Santorum did not qualify for the Indiana ballot; he didn't get 500 signatures in the county in Indiana that contains Indianapolis. Romney Veepstakes, indeed.

Also: A UN Resolution on Syria has been vetoed by Russia and China.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
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