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[Invisible_Insane]

That's the point and the obvious end game. The only reason Obama would hedge with the states right canard (come on, no one in Washington gives a shit about states rights...Holder is probably busting a CA pot shop today) is that he doesn't want to come off as proactive.

-withdrawn-

 

[AlteredBeast]

I'm a Methodist and I'm pretty sure "The Lord helps those who help themselves" isn't at the top of our message priorities. That's shit you tell your kids so they don't be lazy asses.

However, being that I don't want religion mixed in with politics, it's just as dumb to say "the Bible says you're supposed to help poor people, taking away government programs is against the Bible" as it is to say "the Bible says gays are bad, so no marriage for gays!" I've always thought the Bible says what you as an individual are supposed to do, not what you're supposed to have the government do for you by proxy.

The Lord helps those who help themselves is one of the main mantras of my existence and one I tell everyone.

The problem that a lot of republicans have is this, and listen close because it makes a lot of sense:

Republicans treat government as an enemy of the people. The problem is that government is elected by, represented by, and filled with PEOPLE. When the Bible says that Sodom and Gomorrah's real sin was that they did not help the poor, the elderly and the sick. The government, a collection of the people who are 1) (mostly) responsible, 2)enabled, and 3) in charge, can use its influence to truly help people, or we can call them lazy and undeserving.

 

[eznark]

Exactly this. "I support the idea of marriage equality, but don't go expecting me to do anything about it."

I don't think it's so much that. I fully expect him to act on more of his actual personal beliefs in his second term and who knows, maybe he actually does support gay marriage and will do something? This just gets people off his back for a bit.

 

[RDreamer]

If this is true, this isn't like the dog on the car, Romney should rightfully get some serious shit for this.

Eh, I don't really think so at all. People do stupid things when they're growing up. Unless it's something especially heinous or telling I don't think we should really be painting people as bad for something they did 50+ years ago. People change. Also, some of the writing and especially he timing seems pretty pointed and very suspicious.

And I say that as someone who was bullied for a lot of my school life.

At the same time, though I know if Republicans got something like this on Obama they'd probably run with it. It's definitely more of a character thing than the stupid eating dog thing, but then again I don't think that was actually taken seriously by almost anyone.

The article was kind of interesting in painting Mitt a bit more humanly. Different than most of us in upbringing, but still it's a good explanation of things I guess.

 

[Tamanon]

Also, his hands are kinda tied with what he can do for gay marriage besides voicing support, with the make-up of the current legislature. All a push for law would do now is cause trouble all across the ticket before the election, wouldn't even come close to accomplishing anything.

 

[The Librarian]

Exactly this. "I support the idea of marriage equality, but don't go expecting me to do anything about it."

Well, by not defending DOMA, he is doing something about it.

 

[el retorno]

That's the thing: he didn't say it should be policy. He said it's his personal opinion. I said that the states' rights thing is to insulate him from "war on marriage" charges, and I think that's pretty cowardly, even if he is expecting the change to come from the courts--if he thinks people are being denied a civil right, then he shouldn't be deferring to the opinions of various state legislatures.

I don't mean to suggest that he can unilaterally make marriage equality the law of the land. That being said, there are some executive orders (the specific contents escape me) that he has declined to issue despite agitation for such from the gay community. Hillary Clinton's speech a few weeks ago on gay rights as human rights was a much bolder way of going about the issue. I don't think his statement from yesterday goes far enough.

His email he says this

But I believe that in the eyes of the law, all Americans should be treated equally. And where states enact same-sex marriage, no federal act should invalidate them.

I just don't see where he can go farther on the marriage part. But I do agree that the executive order is something he should do.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Well, by not defending DOMA, he is doing something about it.

Touché. I think my concerns about the timidity of his language remain well-founded.

His email he says this
I just don't see where he can go farther on the marriage part. But I do agree that the executive order is something he should do.

And where states enact same-sex marriage, no federal act should invalidate them.

Am I the only one that detects a conspicuous lack of comment on states where same sex marriage has been banned or otherwise restricted?

 

[Tim-E]

Exactly this. "I support the idea of marriage equality, but don't go expecting me to do anything about it."

What on earth do you think the president is able to do to legalize same sex marriage nationally? His record on gay rights is one of the greatest and strongest things he's done in this term.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Exactly this. "I support the idea of marriage equality, but don't go expecting me to do anything about it."

But... He has even proactive with regards to Gay rights for pretty much his entre presidency. :/

 

[Invisible_Insane]

What on earth do you think the president is able to do to legalize same sex marriage nationally?

I don't think you're paying attention to the substance of my criticism, which is primarily one about the language he's used in his declaration of support for SSM. My saying "don't expect me to do anything about it" is an overstatement, which I withdraw.

But... He has even proactive with regards to Gay rights for pretty much his entre presidency. :/

You and I may be operating with different definitions of the word "proactive."

 

[Skiptastic]

The problem that a lot of republicans have is this, and listen close because it makes a lot of sense:

Republicans treat government as an enemy of the people. The problem is that government is elected by, represented by, and filled with PEOPLE. When the Bible says that Sodom and Gomorrah's real sin was that they did not help the poor, the elderly and the sick. The government, a collection of the people who are 1) (mostly) responsible, 2)enabled, and 3) in charge, can use its influence to truly help people, or we can call them lazy and undeserving.

You're going to have to work harder if I'm going to listen, because the bold part is an incomplete sentence. I was with you for the first two parts. I don't personally see the government as the enemy of the people, but I also don't see it as the tool by which an individual should implement his or her religious convictions.

 

[Tim-E]

You and I may be operating with different definitions of the word "proactive."

If you think this administration hasn't been proactive on gay rights you're willfully ignoring much of the last three years.

 

[Jackson50]

After numerous setbacks, hiccups, and speed bumps, I think officials are finally realizing their efforts are futile. Reconciliation has always been a chimera. We're only deluding ourselves if we think it's achievable. Unfortunately, the withdrawal will probably continue at its languid pace.

By Karen DeYoung, Updated: Wednesday, May 9, 5:30 AM

After more than a year of sporadic contacts, U.S.-Taliban talks have been stalled for months, deflating Obama administration hopes that progress toward a political solution to the Afghan war would be well underway this spring.

President Obama, in his Kabul speech last week, cited political reconciliation as one of the five pillars of his strategy to “complete our mission and end the war.” He said the administration was “in direct discussions” with the insurgents.

But senior administration officials acknowledged that there have been no meetings with Taliban interlocutors since January. The lack of progress was underscored by an explosion of insurgent attacks in recent weeks and a Taliban statement last week announcing the inception of “the current year’s spring operation” against foreign military “occupiers” and anyone who assists them.

http://goo.gl/6aAi4

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Where does it say one of them looked gay?

Here

John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality. Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn’t having it.

“He can’t look like that. That’s wrong. Just look at him!” an incensed Romney told Matthew Friedemann, his close friend in the Stevens Hall dorm, according to Friedemann’s recollection. Mitt, the teenaged son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, kept complaining about Lauber’s look, Friedemann recalled.

 

[Particle Physicist]

You and I may be operating with different definitions of the word "proactive."

He may not be moving as fast as many of us want, but it is undeniable that he has done more for Gay rights than any president in the history if the US

I'm on my phone, and I am having trouble finding it, but there was a post in here or the announcement thread that detailed out everything that he has accomplished in this regard.

 

[Tim-E]

He may not be moving as fast as many of us want, but it is undeniable that he has done more for Gay rights than any president in the history if the US

I'm on my phone, and I am having trouble finding it, but there was a post in here or the announcement thread that detailed out everything that he has accomplished in this regard.

My post from earlier this morning hits the main points on this issue.

 

[Particle Physicist]

My post from earlier this morning hits the main points on this issue.

That is what I was looking for! Thanks!

 

[Cloudy]

I think it's pretty lame for the media to drag up stuff Romney did or didn't do in high school. Then again, the GOPers are attacking Obama for eating dog as a child. Fuck 'em lol

 

[electricpirate]

Getting excited about Obama's statement isn't that weird, but it's not something that makes me "Wow hey, go bama!" Instead, it's something that makes me smile about how we are progressing as a country, that a president can now openly support Gay Marriage without a huge political fallout.

 

[Tim-E]

I think it's pretty lame for the media to drag up stuff Romney did or didn't do in high school. Then again, the GOPers are attacking Obama for eating dog as a child. Fuck 'em lol

It's just noise that means nothing and will be forgotten tomorrow. They need to fill a 24 hour news channel with something.

 

[Tamanon]

It's just noise that means nothing and will be forgotten tomorrow. They need to fill a 24 hour news channel with something.

Ironically it was a newspaper that printed it.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

I would love to see the charts you obviously have showing the correlation between being a republican and bullying. What a stupid comment.

It's possible that you are that dense, but I'm not buying it.

 

[KingGondo]

I think it's pretty lame for the media to drag up stuff Romney did or didn't do in high school. Then again, the GOPers are attacking Obama for eating dog as a child. Fuck 'em lol

If Romney was a bully in high school, I think that's relevant to his character.

I also don't doubt that he is different now, but I think the anecdotes about his bullying are indicitive of his background and how that informed his worldview. He clearly grew up in an insulated, privileged world in which being "different" was not tolerated. It's bullshit that he "doesn't remember" pinning a kid down and cutting off his hair. Who wouldn't remember that?

Combine that with his activism in one of the most active and powerful discriminatory organizations in the country (the LDS church), and I think it's an effective tactic for the Obama campaign to use.

And it's certainly far more relevant than Obama eating dog as a six year-old.

 

[The Technomancer]

It's possible that you are that dense, but I'm not buying it.

Er...what?

 

[Tim-E]

If Romney was a bully in high school, I think that's relevant to his character.

I also don't doubt that he is different now, but I think the anecdotes about his bullying are indicitive of his background and how that informed his worldview. He clearly grew up in an insulated, privileged world in which being "different" was not tolerated. It's bullshit that he "doesn't remember" pinning a kid down and cutting off his hair. Who wouldn't remember that?

Combine that with his activism in one of the most active and powerful discriminatory organizations in the country (the LDS church), and I think it's an effective tactic for the Obama campaign to use.

And it's certainly far more relevant than Obama eating dog as a six year-old.

Like the dog stuff, I don't think this is something the Obama campaign needs to even acknowledge. It may or may not be relevant to his character as it is today, but let the news do with it what it will. The President has so many other and more relevant things to criticize Romney about that this doesn't even need to be addressed.

 

[eznark]

It's possible that you are that dense, but I'm not buying it.

Condescending aloofness from a liberal. Shocking.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I am so glad I blocked spam emails from the Obama campaign. It's probably gonna get worse as the election draws near.

 

[Tim-E]

I am so glad I blocked spam emails from the Obama campaign. It's probably gonna get worse as the election draws near.

Once I donated some money to the campaign, I suddenly became their best friend and received double what I likely would have had I not donated.

Condescending aloofness from a liberal. Shocking.

I'm your everyday pinko commie and even I thought that was incredibly rude and unfounded.

 

[Stinkles]

Like the dog stuff, I don't think this is something the Obama campaign needs to even acknowledge. It may or may not be relevant to his character as it is today, but let the news do with it what it will. The President has so many other and more relevant things to criticize Romney about that this doesn't even need to be addressed.

About 80% of the bullies I knew from high school grew up to be complete shitheels in real life. In a world where presidents are elected on character, it's not only relevant, it's informative.

 

[KingGondo]

Like the dog stuff, I don't think this is something the Obama campaign needs to even acknowledge. It may or may not be relevant to his character as it is today, but let the news do with it what it will. The President has so many other and more relevant things to criticize Romney about that this doesn't even need to be addressed.

You're right. The media will still run with this, and it would come across as dirty if the Obama campaign brought it up directly.

Romney is so gaffe-prone that the media is likely to do a lot of damage to him without any prodding from the Obama campaign.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Condescending aloofness from a liberal. Shocking.

I said I didn't believe he was that dense, just disingenuous.

 

[AlteredBeast]

You're going to have to work harder if I'm going to listen, because the bold part is an incomplete sentence. I was with you for the first two parts. I don't personally see the government as the enemy of the people, but I also don't see it as the tool by which an individual should implement his or her religious convictions.

sorry, lost my train of thought (at work). Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed not because of its rampant homosexuality and fornication, as is presumed by many religious people, but moreso because they didn't care for people as they should.

If the government is of the people, by the people, and for the people, as the famous speech goes, than why should it not be devoted to improving the lives of the sick, helping those in their later years, and caring for the poor? I am not talking about the government giving handouts to the poor necessarily, but I am talking about making healthcare something that nobody should go bankrupt over. I am also talking about social security being able to cover a real life for someone in retirement, should they not have been able to save for themselves. I am not talking about vacations, condos and cars, but much more than the meager existence these people have now in old age.

Would private organizations exist if the government didn't provide these services? Maybe a few, but nothing on a wide scale to protect the millions and millions of people benefited by these programs.

 

[Tim-E]

About 80% of the bullies I knew from high school grew up to be complete shitheels in real life. In a world where presidents are elected on character, it's not only relevant, it's informative.

Like I said, I don't really care if the news talks about it because people will judge character based on various things, but I don't think this is something the Obama camp needs to talk about. There's no need to get dirty with things like that when the media is more than willing to drag it out.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Like I said, I don't really care if the news talks about it because people will judge character based on various things, but I don't think this is something the Obama camp needs to talk about. There's no need to get dirty with things like that when the media is more than willing to drag it out.

He's already apologized for his behavior. Hopefully, the country can now begin the long healing process over these pranks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...gone-too-far/2012/05/10/gIQAC3JhFU_story.html

 

[thatbox]

He's not going to push for a national vote or try to pick a fight with those states but I don't think he's gonna back down from his statement that they should have that right and it should be policy. I think the states thing is to insulate him from the "war on marriage" charges. I think he and everyone else knows that change is probably gonna come from the court.

And I don't understand how its not courageous, he's said he thinks gays should be able to marry. What else can he do from the presidency? The only think I can see is him saying DOMA should be repealed, which he's already not defending.

He can state that he believes banning gay marriage is unconstitutional and sign ENDA.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

If Romney was a bully in high school, I think that's relevant to his character.

And it's certainly far more relevant than Obama eating dog as a six year-old.

I think it's about equally relevant. I think there's enough material from Romney's career in politics to impugn his character without dredging up high school bullshit.

 

[Chichikov]

About 80% of the bullies I knew from high school grew up to be complete shitheels in real life. In a world where presidents are elected on character, it's not only relevant, it's informative.

I think it's insane to judge a presidential candidate over these type of teenager hijinks.

I did much worse in my high-school years.
MUCH worse.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

I think it's insane to judge a presidential candidate over these type of teenager hijinks.

I did much worse in my high-school years.
MUCH worse.

go on....

 

[Tim-E]

He can state that he believes banning gay marriage is unconstitutional and sign ENDA.

Obama supports the passage of ENDA. It just needs to get to his desk (which it won't in the current congressional environment).

 

[Tamanon]

He can state that he believes banning gay marriage is unconstitutional and sign ENDA.

I don't think you understand the timeline of legislation. Do you think he wouldn't sign ENDA?

 

[eznark]

Seems early to be descending into Romney 40 years ago. I assume tomorrow the right will counter with Obama being a coke head in college. Based on that timeline maybe we'll get back to talking about the men as they are now in June.

 

[Chumly]

You would think that for people who absolutely love the Bible, republicans would actually bother reading it:



http://readingisforsnobs.blogspot.com/2012/05/idiot-congressman-quotes-scripture.html

Not surprising. They used to use the bible to justify slavery. People will just flat out make shit up to justify their ways. Nobody ever calls them out on it even though its extremely easy to do so.

 

[Cloudy]

If Romney was a bully in high school, I think that's relevant to his character.

It just seems like a low blow to me. He's been in public life for a long time. Why is this just coming out now

Also don't you think people grow? His character could be different than when he was a kid

That said, fuck 'em

 

[eznark]

It just seems like a low blow to me. He's been in public life for a long time. Why is this just coming out now

Also don't you think people grow his character could be different than when he was a kid?

Romney needs to get ABC on the phone to let them know he evolved.

 

[Tim-E]

Romney needs to get ABC on the phone to let them know he evolved.

:lol

 

[thatbox]

Obama supports the passage of ENDA. It just needs to get to his desk (which it won't in the current congressional environment).

I don't think you understand the timeline of legislation. Do you think he wouldn't sign ENDA?

He could sign an executive order for federal contractors today if he cared. All I can think about is that speech from a few months ago where he promises to do everything he can to bypass the locked legislature and take the steps he could to keep moving the country forward, and then he has Axelrod or whoever saying "the president believes this should be addressed by legislation."

 

[Tim-E]

He could sign an executive order for federal contractors today if he cared.

Did you see my post on the last page? Don't spout this "if he cared" bullshit when his administration has done more for gay people in the US than anyone before him. You need to accept the fact that not everything important on your agenda is going to be done the moment you want it to be.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

It just seems like a low blow to me. He's been in public life for a long time. Why is this just coming out now

Also don't you think people grow? His character could be different than when he was a kid

That said, fuck 'em

Even his apology is a non-apology.

If I had caused offense or hurt anybody? Other people present in those days are saying they feel guilty about it, Romney is saying it was just a dumb prank when it is a clear instance of bullying of a student because he looked different from the rest.

In a larger context, http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/05/content-of-romneys-character.html

 

[Chichikov]

You would think that for people who absolutely love the Bible, republicans would actually bother reading it:



http://readingisforsnobs.blogspot.com/2012/05/idiot-congressman-quotes-scripture.html

Don't get me wrong, I strongly think that such cuts are at odds with Christian values, but Psalms 146 isn't the chapter to slam him on this.
You see, Psalms 146 speaks about god, it's not a commandment for the people, it's about how god is helping the poor and the needy.

In fact, it contrast god's help with this - (same chapter, a couple of verse before; once again, translation is shit)-

Do not put your trust in princes,
in human beings, who cannot save.
When their spirit departs, they return to the ground;
on that very day their plans come to nothing.

So if you want, you can totally make the case that it speaks against government intervention (I think it speaks of neither, but if anything, this is an easier case to make).

Now it's true, it doesn't make Barton any less of an idiot (quite the opposite actually), but Bashir doesn't come out so great there either.