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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread
- Thread starter AlteredBeast
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You can't argue that democrats simultaneously didn't ram enough stuff pass republicans and rammed too much past republicans. The vast majority of the blame rests on the republicans who openly admit they are and trying to be obstructionists just for the sake of it. Acting like republicans would negotiate/act in good faith (if we just did this one thing!) is a joke and has no supporting proof.
Insaneo PD
The majority of Americans still blame the previous administration for the economic downturn. The only way the economy can work in the GOP's favor is if the voters believe that Romney's policies would actually make things better.
The question is; Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? I seriously doubt the vast majority of Americans could say that they aren't.
It's pretty fucking frustrating to me that I actually agree with the general gist of this, but know that Romney's plan would make things even worse.
I wish we had a mainstream presidential contender who didn't have an economic policy of austerity and impoverishment.
EDIT:
Of course, the main factor keeping this from happening is the political climate, successful propaganda, and an ignorant electorate.
jamesinclair
Banned
Obamas socialist economy is clearly not working. Time for secession.
This month has to be the worst ever for Obama. I'm not even kidding.
A jobs report that puts his re-election chances in jeapordy. The health care law he invested so much time, energy, and political capital on that caused a great many Congressional Democrats to lose their jobs to batshit insane conservatives is more than likely getting struck down fully, if not partially, this month.
I can't get mad at Congress and Obama for pushing through PPACA. It was the right thing to do. I don't know how much of an effect focusing on economic legislation instead would have had at this point in terms of job growth. Probably minimal and not as profound as everyone is thinking; it's always nice to have someone or something to blame when the totally unexpected occurs.
This is going to make me sound like a prick, but Americans are stupid for not getting on board with PPACA. I see that its support continues to plummet. When it gets repealed and their premiums skyrocket, they have no one but themselves to blame. When it gets repealed and they get denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition, they have no one but themselves to blame. And we all suffer. They should be able to see that the extraordinary cost of health care is a huge part of why people have had such a hard time financially, being a great contributor to the economic downturn.
What would a Jobs Act have done, really, especially in this Congress where everything gets watered down? Focusing on health care was the right thing to do, even if the law gets struck down.
A jobs report that puts his re-election chances in jeapordy. The health care law he invested so much time, energy, and political capital on that caused a great many Congressional Democrats to lose their jobs to batshit insane conservatives is more than likely getting struck down fully, if not partially, this month.
I can't get mad at Congress and Obama for pushing through PPACA. It was the right thing to do. I don't know how much of an effect focusing on economic legislation instead would have had at this point in terms of job growth. Probably minimal and not as profound as everyone is thinking; it's always nice to have someone or something to blame when the totally unexpected occurs.
This is going to make me sound like a prick, but Americans are stupid for not getting on board with PPACA. I see that its support continues to plummet. When it gets repealed and their premiums skyrocket, they have no one but themselves to blame. When it gets repealed and they get denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition, they have no one but themselves to blame. And we all suffer. They should be able to see that the extraordinary cost of health care is a huge part of why people have had such a hard time financially, being a great contributor to the economic downturn.
What would a Jobs Act have done, really, especially in this Congress where everything gets watered down? Focusing on health care was the right thing to do, even if the law gets struck down.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
What happens if you are on your parents healthcare because of the under 26 part of the healthcare bill and the law gets fully repealed?
I agree, at least one of the worth months yet.
I agree, at least one of the worth months yet.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
You lose your healthcare. Good luck.
Oh, and if you have a preexisting condition. Well. ........
It depends on what the health insurer does. They already have the coverage in place and if PPACA gets struck down that doesn't necessarily mean they will take that away.
Or you buy catastrophic coverage for $30-40 a month, which is all you need.
meh, i doubt they would drop it the next day. You'll have to find your own healthcare soon enough
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
That's pretty weak, I don't think Republicans even had a problem with that part of the law.
Any suggestions for insurance plans in California in case I need to start looking?
Any suggestions for insurance plans in California in case I need to start looking?
Until you actually get sick and have to pay....Dat Deductible.
Incidentally low income individuals would pay about $30-40 a month for Obamacare, minus the hulking deductible of course.
The Librarian
Banned
I'd like to know this too.
Republicans don't care about whether the law is good or not, they just want to oppose Obama at all costs.
empty vessel
Member
Nope. Never is for court opinions.
Hobbestetrician
Member
I was on a cheap plan like that. Make sure not to get really sick towards the end of the year like I did because then you have to pay the $3,500 deductible again once it resets in January.
lol. So true. Should say "Work hard enough to get a job that offers health care so you don't have to blame other people." Those idiots are always expecting us to do things like that!
PhoenixDark
Banned
Another broad piece of legislation that had nothing to do with jobs
I'm not going to argue republicans were going to work with Barry until he hurt their feelings. McConnell is on record saying the goal was always to oppose Obama, and even before the inauguration they were planning this. Obama gave them plenty of chances and they have poisoned the well plenty of times
The only point worth making is that Obama had the largest democrat mandate since LBJ and squandered it. There was a time when the general democrat agenda could have been pushed, not just to try to help the economy but give democrats something to run on. Instead they jumped off a cliff to pass healthcare that no one likes, understands, does much of anything right now, and will be repealed in a few weeks.
Hell they could have passed it and a host of other things if precious time wasn't wasted begging for votes they didn't need. Keep denying reality guys
Democrats went home to their districts with nothing they could run on. The election of 2010 ended everything. So in a few months Obama will continue reminding us how bad things used to be, as if it'll make the unemployed feel better. Good luck with that. Laugh all you want but I'm reminded of the same arrogance and hubris I saw here on the eve of the NH primary. Romney is a joke, sure he's funny. But he's going to beat your man in November. He's new, safe, and competent; sound familiar? And while Romney rides out a bad economy until it reverses and he gets the credit/re-elected, people will never forget how disappointing and poor the Obama presidency was; he'll be the new Bush, the new Carter. Democrats had the chance to lampoon Bush fiscal conservative for a few elections, now the reverse will happen
So many people have jobs they don't even want or are best for them because of the health care. And we wonder what other factors may contribute to shitty job growth? There's a huge risk in changing jobs, especially with the way the market is today. It therefore amazes me that Americans are too stupid to not want some kind of alternative like single payer or a public option instead of being tied down to their employer which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in 2012. At the very least, PPACA addresses some of these issues, but it merely scratches the surface. It's better than what we had before, though, and so when I see that the support for it is at record lows I just don't understand how people can be so fucking stupid. Can they not see that the economic turmoil that we face every day is caused largely in part by the health care nightmare this country has been having to deal with for at least the past 10 years now?
Hm, I never thought of that. I wonder if there will be a significant spike in the unemployment rate as people feel free to leave their jobs.
Finally, consensus!
Is this fanfic? You don't even like Romney, but are OK with eight imaginary years under him?
What I mean is that people are tied down to jobs that they may not even want, but need the health care, preventing those who would be better suited for that job from getting it, and perhaps remaining unemployed while the other person is miserable. There are about five people at my job who have told me that the only reason they are still there is for the health care, they're too afraid to go after something else because of the uncertainty of the market so they'd rather hold on for dear life to a job they've been fed up with for years now. That's a problem.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Good god. I can finally see a real way Romney wins. Lttp or w/e, but...
Nothing particularly new about him and he certainly isn't communicating safe and competent at all, unless you just ignore everything he says.
Maybe he'll get elected, but if he does it'll be thanks to the crazy and out of touch in this country who he'll have to pay his dues to if he wants their votes to get re-elected, so he isn't going to be riding anything out.
I don't think Santorum would have ever been able to win no matter what the job market looked like.
I doubt Obama will lose, just because Romney is so damn unlikeable. People forget how badly the left hated W in 2004. I doubt the left has hated a sitting president more than W in our history, the only other option is possibly Nixon, and it didn't do a bit of good if the candidate you have to vote for doesn't inspire you.
Kerry was much more suited to be President than Romney, had much more experience in politics and was a war hero. Romney has nothing going for him, it's why none of his personal attributes poll well. What he has is the unhappiness towards Obama, but sitting Presidents don't get ousted by boiler plate candidates.
Sure Reagan beat Carter and Clinton beat Bush but neither sitting President inherited a bad economy, they started a bad economy whereas no one can claim that today's economy is worse than the one that Obama took office in. Also, Reagan and Clinton energized their bases because their bases loved them, no one loves Romney.
The Jobs numbers are bad, but they don't matter as long as we're gaining jobs each month and not losing them, Romney won't have an answer.
During the Debate:
Obama: We've been gaining Jobs for the last 3 years since I took office. It took me one year to prevent the next Great Depression and stabilize the free-fall, and we've been growing ever since. The government revenue losses at the state and local level have caused a lot of public sector workers like teachers and police officers to lose their jobs, if we hired them all back, we'd be at 7% or less.
Romney: That's not good enough, We're still in a recession, I can get us out of this mess.
Obama: By doing what
Romney: Republican principles
Obama: Well that strategy led to this mess so that won't work, what else ya got?
Point is, as long as we're gaining jobs, All Romney can do is say "I can gain more jobs"...and once he's asked how, all Obama has to do is finish with that last line. Or he has to support things Obama supports like stimulus, hiring public workers, or infrastructure and Obama can point it out by saying something like.
"Well if you're going to run on my agenda I'll take that as a compliment, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"
Kerry was much more suited to be President than Romney, had much more experience in politics and was a war hero. Romney has nothing going for him, it's why none of his personal attributes poll well. What he has is the unhappiness towards Obama, but sitting Presidents don't get ousted by boiler plate candidates.
Sure Reagan beat Carter and Clinton beat Bush but neither sitting President inherited a bad economy, they started a bad economy whereas no one can claim that today's economy is worse than the one that Obama took office in. Also, Reagan and Clinton energized their bases because their bases loved them, no one loves Romney.
The Jobs numbers are bad, but they don't matter as long as we're gaining jobs each month and not losing them, Romney won't have an answer.
During the Debate:
Obama: We've been gaining Jobs for the last 3 years since I took office. It took me one year to prevent the next Great Depression and stabilize the free-fall, and we've been growing ever since. The government revenue losses at the state and local level have caused a lot of public sector workers like teachers and police officers to lose their jobs, if we hired them all back, we'd be at 7% or less.
Romney: That's not good enough, We're still in a recession, I can get us out of this mess.
Obama: By doing what
Romney: Republican principles
Obama: Well that strategy led to this mess so that won't work, what else ya got?
Point is, as long as we're gaining jobs, All Romney can do is say "I can gain more jobs"...and once he's asked how, all Obama has to do is finish with that last line. Or he has to support things Obama supports like stimulus, hiring public workers, or infrastructure and Obama can point it out by saying something like.
"Well if you're going to run on my agenda I'll take that as a compliment, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"
If Obama's defense is going to be that this is still Bush's fault I might actually have to seriously consider he could lose in November.
retro fixed. It takes awhile to fix what stupidity breaks
Comparing Obama to the worst American in history is not a good way to win votes.
Also, good luck preaching patience to Americans.
eBay Huckster
Member
To be fair, he didn't compare Obama to Buchanan.
The American people know it's Bush's fault and all the polling says so. When asked who is more responsible, Bush usually doubles up on votes. Obama doesn't have to say anything as long as he's gaining jobs, it's on Romney to prove he can do a better job because Obama's already growing the Economy.
Romney has no original economic positions, he's going to have to take Bush's policies which won't work, or take Obama's, or come up with something original. And chances are, he won't come up with much original.
There is the rub.
Also, we're staring in the face of the real possibility of a recession. Obama hasn't really proven anything.
Mitt's solutiong: Corporate Welfare Queens: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/...log&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
If we start losing massive jobs, obviously he loses. But beating an incumbent isn't easy, especially one that's well liked by a majority of the electorate and is having some measure of success on the economy because most people think his foreign policy is pretty damn good.
It's on a challenger to prove that he's better, and Americans don't love change, we love stability. We'll go for change if the change is something we fall for, but Romney's not that guy.
The public knows that Congress has tied Obama's hands and prevented much of his agenda, Romney's going to have to prove he's better, and that's not an easy task.
And claims Romney makes of "I was able to work with a Democratic Congress in Mass. to get stuff done"
Obama's response would be: "You increased the price of everything, ballooned the debt, were 47th in the country on job creation...the only good thing you got done was your Health Care Bill"
Stay up? Don't you mean wake up?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I remember when -250k was a good number back in the days of darkness. Then it was anything positive now it's at least 100k or gtfo.
PhoenixDark
Banned
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/obama-gop-will-moderate-after-we-break-fever
He still doesn't get it. Fucking clueless
FDR the worst American in history? fucking lol.
What do you want him to say? "Fuck the GOP, flood Congress with Democrats in November?" He has to play the game
Worst being in the universe more like, amirite?
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