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PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

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L

LosDaddie

Banned
Miletius said:
speculawyer said:
Can you give any insight on the cognitive dissonance of hating all things government but being in the military? Isn't that basically hating your own existence? Is there just a huge logic loophole that everyone pretends doesn't exist?
Click to expand...

In my experience government in so far as the military is concerned is equated with red tape that permeates every facet of military culture. So, form filling, paper pushing, that sort of thing that gets in the way of their "jobs." The military is viewed as a patriotic, self-sacrificing group of individuals while the government gets in the way of everything. The government (or Democrats) also wants to cut their funding and leave the military underfunded, understaffed and without means.
Click to expand...

Miletius has it right here. I'd put an extra emphasis on cutting military funding. Big stickler there. I remember hearing how Clinton wanted to destroy the military.

Also, if I had to, I'd refer to the military as more of a jobs program, not welfare program.
 
F

Flying_Phoenix

Banned
Skiptastic said:
How did you determine this? They put a small orange ball in a round hole but they do it better than most people in the world. People are willing to pay to see this. Not only that, but they're
willing to overpay for concession food while there. They are willing to pay more for team apparel than they would for a blank shirt. That is creating value. It also creates jobs for lots of other people. Not only the direct folks (concession stands, team employees) but also related employment (sports writers, sports media, etc.)

I don't have any issue with a progressive tax system, especially one that is bracketed the way ours is. I also don't have any issue with your statement about how it is laughable that job creators are untouchable. But I do start to see an issue when you start thinking that you have some sort of insight into what people should or should not be paid. It hurts your argument talking that way. You're better off sticking to "When we tax you 50% of your $6 million, you still have $3 million to save or spend how you will. When we tax 0% of a family making $40K a year, they have almost no money left over for saving once they get past necessities." That's a more compelling argument for increased taxes on the wealthy and takes out some sort of high minded theory of what people "deserve" to be paid.
Click to expand...

mckmas8808 said:
Hold on! So why shouldn't a basketball player make $6,000,000 a year?
Click to expand...


I never said that them making too much is my main argument. I am more so saying that acting like job creators will be leaving the country en masse or not being justly paid for their professions. I was referring to the "punishing success" argument.

The "they should keep as much money as they want" argument doesn't make sense because it fails to redistribute the wealth to those who educated them, work for them, purchase their items, pay for their roads, etc. Society is a collaborative effort. Even with a system like Capitalism. And the lack of this over the past 30 years or so is much of the reason of the stagnating quality of life and social mobility in this nation.

As for mckmas, I use them as an example because its a fluke. Playing basketball isn't inheritable valuable to society as say medical research, high scale teaching, energy resource, politicians, etc. Its more so taking advantage of the economic system we have (which makes sense since that's the basis of our system).

ClovingSteam said:
I don't have a problem with NBA players making the money they do, I have a problem with them not being taxed higher. I don't have a problem with one person making $100 million. I have a problem with him not being taxed higher.
Click to expand...

Same thing I was saying. Pay them what ever they want. But if they don't distribute their fair share,then that isn't well fair.

Miletius said:
This is the type of stuff that the New Deal couldn't even begin to touch.
Click to expand...

But the New Deal like...worked and didn't put us into God-like debt.

Miletius said:
In my experience government in so far as the military is concerned is equated with red tape that permeates every facet of military culture. So, form filling, paper pushing, that sort of thing that gets in the way of their "jobs." The military is viewed as a patriotic, self-sacrificing group of individuals while the government gets in the way of everything. The government (or Democrats) also wants to cut their funding and leave the military underfunded, understaffed and without means.
Click to expand...

This doesn't make any sense at all. I still don't understand the thought process.

Manmademan said:
not really that hard to figure out. 80s and 90s metal was by and large the music of the disenfranchised poor and working class white youth.

These fans grow up, stay poor and disenfranchised, blame immigrants and minorities for their problems, gravitate towards politicians who tell them what they want to hear and give them easy targets to blame their problems on, and *poof*- die hard republican voters.

note that this example is drawn explicitly from my own experiences, and is not a generalization of all metal fans.
Click to expand...

Yeah my friends and I use (and still are in a way) metal heads. All of them seem to be Ron Paul loving libertarians. My friend posted a picture on his facebook of him standing next to Dr. Paul himself.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Miletius said:
To answer your second question:

There are a lot of people who depend on the (to use a sometimes inflammatory term) military industrial complex for their livelihood and don't like to see the government cut into their paychecks. Anecdotal evidence, but almost everybody I know from high school is still connected to the service in one way or another (some active duty, some military spouses). I can count the number of people who aren't on one hand, and many of those had civilian parents. People right now are scared shitless of the coming cuts, my girlfriend's mom works on Scott AFB and there is huge anti-democratic sentiment there right now because Obama forced the Republicans to accept a deal that would cut military spending.

People like to make jokes about it but the US military is probably the biggest welfare project in the history of welfare projects. This is the type of stuff that the New Deal couldn't even begin to touch.
Click to expand...

Yeah, in an irony that many GOPers refuse to admit, Reagan was the biggest Keynesian ever with his tax cuts AND simultaneous massive government spending in defense. That is textbook Keynesian stimulus.


There is still a big disconnect in their views though . . . I get the selfish anti-Democrat view if you feel Democrats will cut the military. But in the same vein, the Republicans want to cut taxes all the time . . . that is the source of military funding. The GOP has been quite successful in spreading a 'magical thinking' message of less taxes and more military. But the only way that works is by borrowing . . . and people complain about that too. People just don't want to deal with reality, do they?


Can't we move some of this military spending over to domestic infrastructure spending? Instead of having people sit in military bases and march back and forth in formation, can't we pay them to build bridges, roads, the grid, and other useful stuff instead? I think would give us a much better economic multiplier effect.
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
speculawyer said:
Can't we move some of this military spending over to domestic infrastructure spending? Instead of having people sit in military bases and march back and forth in formation, can't we pay them to build bridges, roads, the grid, and other useful stuff instead? I think would give us a much better economic multiplier effect.
Click to expand...

Oh so you want more massive government entitlements and more Obama out of control spending, while making America less safe </republicans>
 
F

Flying_Phoenix

Banned
^^^ Did Reagan save America from the 80's recession? I recall you said it was due to oil or something?

speculawyer said:
Can't we move some of this military spending over to domestic infrastructure spending? Instead of having people sit in military bases and march back and forth in formation, can't we pay them to build bridges, roads, the grid, and other useful stuff instead? I think would give us a much better economic multiplier effect.
Click to expand...

This is like what I would do if I ran a country but make it like that almost always if economically feasible.

GaimeGuy said:
Oh so you want more massive government entitlements and more Obama out of control spending, while making America less safe </republicans>
Click to expand...

Lol so I'm going to take the amount of budget and funding we have for the military, cut it, and move that to infrastructure to create more jobs. Why don't you want American's to be employed? Would you rather have them take out welfare and food stamps?
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Flying_Phoenix said:
^^^ Did Reagan save America from the 80's recession? I recall you said it was due to oil or something?
Click to expand...

Nothing happens alone. Reagan's Kenyesian policies contributed. But yes, cheap oil is a huge contributor that also helped a lot. The oil prices crashed in the 80s and that really helped the economy like crazy. Cheap oil also helped bring down the USSR since it was a big source for their hard currency.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
GaimeGuy said:
Oh so you want more massive government entitlements and more Obama out of control spending, while making America less safe </republicans>
Click to expand...
I wish that argument could die. We spend mad money on defense as if we expect an alien invasion. And the kicker is, spending that much money doesn't even work. It is beyond diminishing returns . . . it is negative returns. We spend so much that we are less safe because people regularly die of treatable illnesses since we buy B-1 bombers instead of basic healthcare.

We've got the greatest military in the world . . . but that is of no use against die-heard religious nuts with AK-47s in Afghanistan. We failed to learn from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Plinko said:
He's also beating Santorum 50-39 and the other two handily.

Rick Snyder is the driving force behind this. He came into office and veered HARD right. People can't stand the guy.
Click to expand...

Add him to the list. The true secret to Obama's victory in November is GOP governors.

Rick Snyder, Scott Walker, John Kasich, Rick Scott.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
I got into the Maxwell School @ Syracuse!

It's the first school I've heard from of many I applied to, so I don't know where I'll be going yet, but it's good to know I'm in somewhere.

Thanks to all of you guys for keeping me sharp.

Still, though: fuck grad school apps.
 
H

Hobbestetrician

Member
Invisible_Insane said:
I got into the Maxwell School @ Syracuse!

It's the first school I've heard from of many I applied to, so I don't know where I'll be going yet, but it's good to know I'm in somewhere.

Thanks to all of you guys for keeping me sharp.

Still, though: fuck grad school apps.
Click to expand...

Congrats. I am still waiting to hear back from my apps.

And yes, fuck those apps.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
Invisible_Insane said:
I got into the Maxwell School @ Syracuse!

It's the first school I've heard from of many I applied to, so I don't know where I'll be going yet, but it's good to know I'm in somewhere.

Thanks to all of you guys for keeping me sharp.

Still, though: fuck grad school apps.
Click to expand...

I am also applying to schools this year. And yes, fuck apps, especially the amount of money they cost.

$80 fees + transcript fees + postage fees + GRE fees +....

ugh.
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
AlteredBeast said:
wow. Education system is so out of order in the US. Not even funny.
Click to expand...
Oh, it is profoundly unfunny.

The best part is that after you've paid the testing company ~$120 to sit for the exam, you have to spend another $23 PER SCHOOL to have them forward the schools the scores. Which they send on a CD. There is no way it is reasonable to have it cost $23 to burn a tiny bit of information to a CD.

I could rage about this stuff for hours.
 
P

Puddles

Banned
Invisible_Insane said:
Oh, it is profoundly unfunny.

The best part is that after you've paid the testing company ~$120 to sit for the exam, you have to spend another $23 PER SCHOOL to have them forward the schools the scores. Which they send on a CD. There is no way it is reasonable to have it cost $23 to burn a tiny bit of information to a CD.

I could rage about this stuff for hours.
Click to expand...

There is no reason for anyone to burn anything or mail anything.

Your undergraduate school could forward a pdf copy of your transcripts with a few clicks of a mouse. ETS could forward your GRE scores electronically. Again, a few clicks of a mouse.

10-14 business days to mail a paper copy? It could literally take less than a minute and cost almost nothing.

And $80 application fees? Why do we pay schools to decide whether we're going to pay them more money in the future? It makes no goddamn sense.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
Invisible_Insane said:
Oh, it is profoundly unfunny.

The best part is that after you've paid the testing company ~$120 to sit for the exam, you have to spend another $23 PER SCHOOL to have them forward the schools the scores. Which they send on a CD. There is no way it is reasonable to have it cost $23 to burn a tiny bit of information to a CD.

I could rage about this stuff for hours.
Click to expand...

Who the hell burns things to anything in 2012?
 
R

RustyNails

Member
CNN Breaking News?

Obama approval at 50% Mark, disapproval at 48%
Washington (CNN) - President Barack Obama's approval rating is back to 50% for the first time in more than eight months, and he currently holds an edge against all the remaining Republican presidential candidates in hypothetical head-to-head match-ups, according to a new national survey.

The rise of Americans who say things are going well appears to be helping the president, whose approval rating now stands at 50%, with 48% saying they disapprove of the job Obama's doing in the White House. The president's approval rating has edged up three points from last month and is up six points from November. The last time Obama's approval rating was at 50% or above was last May, as a result of the killing of Osama bin Laden, and it stayed there for about a month before fading.

"Independents now have a net-positive view of President Obama," says Holland. "His approval rating has also reached 50% in the suburbs."

Looking ahead to November, the poll indicates that the president's re-election chances are on the rise. In hypothetical matchups among registered voters, Obama holds a 51%-46% margin over former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, leads both former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and Rep. Ron Paul of Texas by the same 52%-45% advantage, and beats former House Speaker Newt Gingrich 55%-42%.

More than six in ten Americans believe that the policies of Romney and Gingrich favor the rich; Santorum and Paul do better on that measure, but only a quarter feel that way about Obama," says Holland.

The survey suggests that the contentious Republican primary season has decreased enthusiasm among Republican voters, virtually erasing the "enthusiasm gap" that promised to provide the ultimate GOP presidential nominee with a major advantage in the fall.
Click to expand...

Another Poll: Arizona likely in play | Santorum surges from behind once more
(CNN) – Mitt Romney has taken the lead in Arizona with Rick Santorum in a close second ahead of the state's February contest, according to a new poll.

The American Research Group survey shows Romney with 38% support among likely Republican primary voters, followed by Santorum at 31%, Newt Gingrich at 15% and Ron Paul with 11%.

The new figures represent a significant shift since January, when a similar poll indicated Romney and Gingrich tied at 32%, Paul with 12% and Santorum with 10%.
Click to expand...
 
M

Miletius

Member
Heh, just be glad you aren't apping for Law School, B-School or Med School. I think it costs $250 to sit for the GMAT or MCAT and all the fees on top of that.

Edit: Congrats on getting in, though!
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Puddles said:
There is no reason for anyone to burn anything or mail anything.

Your undergraduate school could forward a pdf copy of your transcripts with a few clicks of a mouse. ETS could forward your GRE scores electronically. Again, a few clicks of a mouse.

10-14 business days to mail a paper copy? It could literally take less than a minute and cost almost nothing.

And $80 application fees? Why do we pay schools to decide whether we're going to pay them more money in the future? It makes no goddamn sense.
Click to expand...
The application fee at least makes some sense: the process of reviewing applications for universities is probably somewhat labor intensive and it makes sense that the university wants to cover some of those costs. But the fragmentation of the graduate application process is insane, and much of it is frustratingly unnecessary.

gkryhewy said:
Who the hell burns things to anything in 2012?
Click to expand...
These motherfuckers.

Miletius said:
Heh, just be glad you aren't apping for Law School, B-School or Med School. I think it costs $250 to sit for the GMAT or MCAT and all the fees on top of that.

Edit: Congrats on getting in, though!
Click to expand...
I actually did sit for the LSAT, which was another ~$130. But I got my ass handed to me (logic games!), didn't have the heart to kill myself studying for it again, and decided that given the terrible state of things for lawyers, it wasn't really where I wanted to be.

Thanks, everyone.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
By Colby Itkowitz
Call Washington Bureau
2:19 p.m. EST, February 13, 2012

Washington—
Rick Santorum has a double-digit lead over Mitt Romney in Michigan, the state where he grew up and Romney's father was once governor. And nationally, the former Pennsylvania senator is up by 2 percent over Romney among Republican voters.

The left-leaning Public Policy Polling found Santorum at 39 percent in Michigan compared to Romney's 24 percent. Newt Gingrich and Ron Paul trailed considerably with 11 percent and 12 percent respectively.
Click to expand...

Wow, that 'Let Detroit go Bankrupt' meme is killing Romney in Michigan isn't it?

Is it possible for Romney to actually lose the nomination?
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
Invisible_Insane said:
Oh, it is profoundly unfunny.

The best part is that after you've paid the testing company ~$120 to sit for the exam, you have to spend another $23 PER SCHOOL to have them forward the schools the scores. Which they send on a CD. There is no way it is reasonable to have it cost $23 to burn a tiny bit of information to a CD.

I could rage about this stuff for hours.
Click to expand...

That part did make me mad.

$23 to transmit 3 numbers. per school.

Edit: And lets not forget the material to study for the GREs!
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
speculawyer said:
Wow, that 'Let Detroit go Bankrupt' meme is killing Romney in Michigan isn't it?

Is it possible for Romney to actually lose the nomination?
Click to expand...

I still discount the possibility heavily. But if Santorum fares well on the 28th, and in particular if he takes Michigan, then the odds go up sharply.

On this note, Josh Marshall's comment from last night is spot on. The whole post is worth reading, but this in particular stood out as being embarrassingly true:

First, the intensity of the primary fight is forcing Romney to take increasingly hard right positions that are alienating independent voters. As much as it’s a cliche, he can’t effectively tack to the center until he’s got the primaries behind him.

Second, and a bit more intangibly, running around the country in a long twilight struggle with Rick Santorum is just … how to put it? inherently demeaning and diminishing. It’s like struggling to land a one pound fish or searching for the way out of a paper bag. People see you doing that and you just look weak and feckless, even pitiful.

So how long does this play out? If Romney can get Michigan in hand, win convincingly and then do the same on Super Tuesday it’s probably back to being over. He’ll still have his work cut out for him but by mid-March he can get back into general election mode.

But what if he doesn’t? The polls say it will be a challenge. And the deeper this gets into the Spring the closer you get to the point on the calendar where Romney simply won’t have enough time on the clock to undo the damage.
Click to expand...
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
Obama's approval ratings will go up in 2 weeks as the positive febuary data comes in, and then drop sharply as $4 gas starts spreading to all states.

LA is almost there.

lagas.jpg

Dat exponential growth

And don't forget, last year almost every single transit system in the country saw fare hikes AND service cuts.


Nothing says "lets grow this economy" like "lets make it hard for people to even physically reach work"
 
T

thezerofire

Banned
jamesinclair said:
Obama's approval ratings will go up in 2 weeks as the positive febuary data comes in, and then drop sharply as $4 gas starts spreading to all states.

LA is almost there.

lagas.jpg

Dat exponential growth

And don't forget, last year almost every single transit system in the country saw fare hikes AND service cuts.


Nothing says "lets grow this economy" like "lets make it hard for people to even physically reach work"
Click to expand...
It's already over $4 in Orange County and has been for a couple weeks.
 
S

smokeandmirrors

Banned
Any reasons besides the made up Iran bullshit driving the prices high, or is it just another way to fuck us in the ass while the few people with a vested interest make bank?
 
G

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Notrollious said:
Any reasons besides the made up Iran bullshit driving the prices high, or is it just another way to fuck us in the ass while the few people with a vested interest make bank?
Click to expand...

All speculators.

IIRC, the price of gas is at least a dollar a gallon higher than it should be due to speculators.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Rachel Maddow called this one right . . . . she kept saying it was a non-issue while others fluffed it up.

It's not even close: By a lopsided margin of 66 percent to 26 percent, Americans support President Barack Obama's proposal to require private health insurance plans to cover the full cost of birth control for women, according to a new CBS/New York Times public opinion poll.

Rephrasing the question to ask specifically about "religiously affiliated employers, such as a hospital or university," barely moved the needle, to 61 percent to 31 percent.

Those numbers, which come with a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points, are better for Obama than his numbers on foreign policy (50 percent approve, 36 percent disapprove), Afghanistan in particular (51 percent approve, 36 percent disapprove) and are nearly the mirror image of public opinion on his handling of the federal budget deficit, where he loses 32 percent to 59 percent.
Click to expand...
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/...th-control-fight-poll-suggests-205113637.html
 
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