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[Byakuya769]

Of course we do. It's perfectly legal to "murder" sentient animals- even intelligent ones like elephants, dolphins, or chimps (under certain circumstances) for no other reason than our own amusement. The arbitrary definition of "life" simply places less importance on those lives, than the lives of human beings.

likewise, no one is arguing that a fetus isn't alive, or magically "becomes" alive at an arbitrary point in pregnancy, the argument is one of rights. At what point do the rights of the mother trump that of the unborn child? VERY few people will attempt to argue that the mother does not have the right to terminate a pregnancy that endangers her life (which is a health issue) or one as the result of rape or incest (which is not a health issue per se.)

But the arbitrary definition is one that elevates the species above any other; a way we are hardwired to think. I agree that our treatment of sentient life in general is completely related, however, saying, "Well it's okay to kill a, therefore, it's okay to kill b," doesn't change the concerns of those who want to preserve 'b.'

Further, I think socially we construct pregnancy to mean something more than its biological science. It's not always divine, but we still have a feeling of "magic" at work in the process. So it's repugnant to a majority of people, I think, to allow cavalier terminations of pregnancies past a certain point. There is little sound logic between a people being bothered by a non health related abortion and being okay with the death of a pig, but many of the rules we as a society choose to abide by aren't about clear and cold logic. Rather they're about externalities. And I think the externality of certain abortions is a creeping line towards questioning other degrees of human sentience (retardation, senility, etc).

So I don't' refute the logical inconsistence, but I think erring too heavily on that side is similar to economists who apply "rational actor" assumptions to complex collections of transactions and human interactions.

 

[Mike M]

Romney has such bad luck in terms of timing. First he released his tax info the day of the SOTU, now GM reports record profits during the lead up to the Michigan primary.

Plus the Chrysler he's driving in his ads talking about growing up in Michigan was manufactured in Canada.

Oops.

 

[teiresias]

Plus the Chrysler he's driving in his ads talking about growing up in Michigan was manufactured in Canada.

Oops.

And the picture they show of him (with his father?) when he's talking about living in Michigan is actually a picture of them at the New York Worlds Fair.

 

[PantherLotus]

Have you ever been able to "undo" a hardcore Libertarian with those arguments? I doubt it persuades them.
I think of myself as a libertarian at heart (for the most part), but there are different shades of libertarianism.
I think Reagan summed up my general position well--which is to keep government out of as many things as possible:

But you acknowledge a federal government is necessary for several things (even if you don't like them), like civil rights, federal highways, national defense, etc. You also acknowledge that some minimum number of regulations are required over most industries in order to protect the public and the market. Acknowledging those makes you sane and gives us the shades of grey we can debate.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I have no problem with just eliminating the wage cap. I didn't even realize there was a cap until recently.

How? IIRC don't you make like 200 or 250k? (or maybe that was kosmo?)

Wouldn't you notice your tax withdrawals from your paycheck go down by a good 6% at a certain point in the year?

 

[AlteredBeast]

Plus the Chrysler he's driving in his ads talking about growing up in Michigan was manufactured in Canada.

Oops.

And Chrysler is owned by Fiat now, right? Double oops.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I'm not seeing the problem. If you're "filthy rich" you're not going to need as much money to live a comfortable retirement.

besides, his social security taxes don't fund his retirement. They fund current retirees.

 

[Manmademan]

And the picture they show of him (with his father?) when he's talking about living in Michigan is actually a picture of them at the New York Worlds Fair.

it's like the man doesn't actually WANT to win...

 

[Puddles]

Complaining about people's word usage is such grade school bullshit; can we not?

It's all in good fun. Jackson50 is at the very least a top-25 PoliGAF poster, IMO.

 

[AlteredBeast]

It's all in good fun. Jackson50 is at the very least a top-25 PoliGAF poster, IMO.

I agree. His posts area pretty funny though.


Unless that, too, was a slight. There are really only 25 people who actually post in PoliGAF on a regular basis.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

It's all in good fun. Jackson50 is at the very least a top-25 PoliGAF poster, IMO.

I don't know that "top-25" is really all that complimentary when that's about as many regulars as we have in here?

 

[The Librarian]

I don't know that "top-25" is really all that complimentary when that's about as many regulars as we have in here?

You're at least top forty, Invisible Insane.

 

[PhoenixDark]

You're at least top forty, Invisible Insane.

He's like our own third party Wii game

 

[ezekial45]

"Back in my days, they used bayer aspirin for contraception. The gals put it between their knees and it wasn't that costly.”
- Foster Friess (Santorum Super PAC supporter)

http://youtu.be/MMVzaIMYuTY

 

[Invisible_Insane]

You're at least top forty, Invisible Insane.

He's like our own third party Wii game

Y'alls some bitches.

"Back in my days, they used bayer aspirin for contraception. The gals put it between their knees and it wasn't that costly.”
- Foster Friess (Santorum Super PAC supporter)

http://youtu.be/MMVzaIMYuTY

Is that a "keep your legs closed" joke or something else?

 

[ToxicAdam]

I wasn't implying every Republican is a closet racist. Far from that. I was saying that the seed of anti-government thought was not planted in the revolution, but in the civil war.

Oh, I am sorry. I totally missed the thread of that conversation.

 

[Mike M]

"Back in my days, they used bayer aspirin for contraception. The gals put it between their knees and it wasn't that costly.”
- Foster Friess (Santorum Super PAC supporter)

http://youtu.be/MMVzaIMYuTY

Still can't believe that's a real person.

 

[The Librarian]

"Back in my days, they used bayer aspirin for contraception. The gals put it between their knees and it wasn't that costly.”
- Foster Friess (Santorum Super PAC supporter)

http://youtu.be/MMVzaIMYuTY

#backinmydays

 

[Byakuya769]

I don't know that "top-25" is really all that complimentary when that's about as many regulars as we have in here?

Haha, I was going to point this out.

 

[RDreamer]

Y'alls some bitches.


Is that a "keep your legs closed" joke or something else?

I'm pretty sure that's what it is. I had to google it, though, since I had no clue what the hell he was trying to say. Then someone pointed out somewhere: "It's an old Catholic school joke. When you go out on a date put the aspirin between your knees and never drop the aspirin." I feel stupid for not getting it...

 

[Black Republican]

looks like Romney is skipping debate before super tuesday:

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/170215748688560128

 

[Tamanon]

looks like Romney is skipping debate before super tuesday:

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/170215748688560128

That seems to be a stupid decision for him. Sure he won't win Georgia, but does he really want to be seen as ducking a fight when he thinks he won't win?

 

[Puddles]

Interesting: according to this study, means-testing Social Security wouldn't save us that much.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/10/us-retirement-meanstesting-idUSTRE8091PT20120110

I'll need to look into it further. Not sure if the metrics they're using are the ones they should be using.

Haha, I was going to point this out.

That was the joke.

I do really appreciate his posts though. I've learned a lot about history and foreign policy from reading his stuff.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I think that was pretty much speculated many months ago.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

looks like Romney is skipping debate before super tuesday:

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/170215748688560128

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koSQ5MWrCdc#t=55s

 

[Byakuya769]

That was the joke.

I do really appreciate his posts though. I've learned a lot about history and foreign policy from reading his stuff.

Ha, my mistake, didn't give your humor enough credit there!

looks like Romney is skipping debate before super tuesday:

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/170215748688560128

If this guy loses Michigan, I think he's done for. If Santorum is the nominee, I'll jump on the Pantherlotus "win bigger than 08" bandwagon.

 

[Mike M]

looks like Romney is skipping debate before super tuesday:

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/170215748688560128

Either he gets ripped apart by the other three over Romneycare etc., or he gets bad press for running away and gets dogpiled at the debate anyway with no mounting a defense.

Great strategy there, Willard.

 

[StopMakingSense]

looks like Romney is skipping debate before super tuesday:

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/170215748688560128

Oh Mitt.

Man, anybody who plays Madden can tell you the prevent defense NEVER works.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Either he gets ripped apart by the other three over Romneycare etc., or he gets bad press for running away and gets dogpiled at the debate anyway with no mounting a defense.

Great strategy there, Willard.

I always assumed that it is easier to attack someone not at the debate.

Romney is hoping that Santorum and Gingrich go after each other, which is always a possibility.

 

[StopMakingSense]

On other news, Santorum 42 - Romney 24 in Ohio according to Ras.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...al_election/ohio/2012_ohio_republican_primary

 

[Mike M]

Romney is hoping that Santorum and Gingrich go after each other, which is always a possibility.

I could easily see Gingrich going after Santorum, I think Santorum is cagey enough to not rise to the bait, however.

On other news, Santorum 42 - Romney 24 in Ohio according to Ras.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...blican_primary

I still think Romney will win in the end, but man, at what cost?

 

[AniHawk]

looks like Romney is skipping debate before super tuesday:

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/170215748688560128

super tuesday? i'll take soup. sorry, tuesday.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Ha, my mistake, didn't give your humor enough credit there!



If this guy loses Michigan, I think he's done for. If Santorum is the nominee, I'll jump on the Pantherlotus "win bigger than 08" bandwagon.

If and only if. I still think Romney outdoes McCain, but Santorum support will be packed into small areas.

 

[GhaleonEB]

looks like Romney is skipping debate before super tuesday:

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/170215748688560128

Oh dear.

Either he gets ripped apart by the other three over Romneycare etc., or he gets bad press for running away and gets dogpiled at the debate anyway with no mounting a defense.

Great strategy there, Willard.

This was going to be my observation. Romney appears to be insulating himself even further within his media bubble, using ad saturation and removing variables that involve him, such as debates. I am dubious it will work and see no upside - he's getting significant blowback as it is. What a comical candidate.

On other news, Santorum 42 - Romney 24 in Ohio according to Ras.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...al_election/ohio/2012_ohio_republican_primary

Even though it's Rasmussen, those margins are hard to ignore.

One thing I'm noticing is that Santorum's surge appears more durable than Newt's around the South Carolina primary. He's had nearly two weeks of polling showing his rise and subsequent maintainance of his current position. Given how terrible Romney's favorability rating is, it's going to be tough for him to swing things back in the next 12 days. I still think he takes it, but Super Tuesday could make things a whole long longer and uglier. Which just makes his window to pivot for the general even shorter.

 

[BotoxAgent]

man, i knew Mitt was going to be a pretty weak candidate...but I didn't expect this level of absurdity, before the GE! He's politically tone-deaf, absolutely no discipline, constant foot-in-mouth disease, massive flip flopper, etc.

 

[RustyNails]

looks like Romney is skipping debate before super tuesday:

https://twitter.com/#!/EWErickson/status/170215748688560128

Fact: The more people hear Romney talk, the less they like him

Romney's ingenious plan is to not talk at all, by skipping debates altogether! Common sense stupids!

One thing I'm noticing is that Santorum's surge appears more durable than Newt's around the South Carolina primary.

I guess you can say Santorum is on a streak?

 

[The Librarian]

Romney, you can only skip debates if its clear you're the winner.

It's not clear that you're the winner. Kind of.

 

[GaimeGuy]

and santorum's the male version of Christine O'Donnell

 

[PhoenixDark]

Oh dear.
Even though it's Rasmussen, those margins are hard to ignore.

One thing I'm noticing is that Santorum's surge appears more durable than Newt's around the South Carolina primary. He's had nearly two weeks of polling showing his rise and subsequent maintainance of his current position. Given how terrible Romney's favorability rating is, it's going to be tough for him to swing things back in the next 12 days. I still think he takes it, but Super Tuesday could make things a whole long longer and uglier. Which just makes his window to pivot for the general even shorter.

Santorum's rise also coincided with the return of culture war issues, from Washington legalizing gay marriage to the contraceptive issue. It really seems like that social conservative base has finally chosen a candidate, while admitting he's not perfect.

Romney is spending a shit ton in Michigan though, so he should be able to make a come back soon; there are two weeks until the primaries, anything can happen. I think Romney has too much of a structural, on the ground advantage for Santorum to overcome.

 

[PantherLotus]

Culture war is what you do when your economic and national defense arguments aren't working.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Santorum's rise also coincided with the return of culture war issues, from Washington legalizing gay marriage to the contraceptive issue. It really seems like that social conservative base has finally chosen a candidate, while admitting he's not perfect.

Romney is spending a shit ton in Michigan though, so he should be able to make a come back soon; there are two weeks until the primaries, anything can happen. I think Romney has too much of a structural, on the ground advantage for Santorum to overcome.

I agree on the social issues front. In addition, Romney is heading into this wave of primaries with the bridged he burned to win Florida. It's telling that the GOP primary electorate now considers Santorum on par with Romney in terms of electability, something Newt never got close on. That will also make his support more durable.

Romney's media playbook for Michigan appears to be the same as in Florida, which of course worked. But I'm less convinced it will this time around because of how Santorum has solidified the social conservatives, and how much it cost Romney's favorables to win Florida. I think we'll know about this time next week if his strategy is working.

Culture war is what you do when your economic and national defense arguments aren't working.

Yup. I think TA correctly called the pivot to social issues as signs of an improving economy emerged in December and January. And the harder they refocus, the harder their task gets. It's a losing proposition. That pivot could propel Santorum in the primary, but not in the general.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Santorum's rise also coincided with the return of culture war issues, from Washington legalizing gay marriage to the contraceptive issue. It really seems like that social conservative base has finally chosen a candidate, while admitting he's not perfect.

Romney is spending a shit ton in Michigan though, so he should be able to make a come back soon; there are two weeks until the primaries, anything can happen. I think Romney has too much of a structural, on the ground advantage for Santorum to overcome.

We shall see. Right now, Santorum is looking like he is no letting go like all the other pretenders.

The shift in focus coincides with the large amount of positive economy, housing market, and unemployment issues. Republicans simply cannot run on the economy, plain and simple. Even though Romney and Santorum represent a similar moral conservative ideology, Santorum is much more strange in many aspects that the General Public will simply not vote for.

 

[ToxicAdam]

and santorum's the male version of Christine O'Donnell

Santorum's actually won an election. He's more like Bachmann.

 

[jamesinclair]

Interesting case study of right wing nut jobs creating a controversy out of nothing, again.

1) Rush Limbaugh says something blatantly false
2) Statement gets spread
3) Kosmo brings it to GAF
4) Lynch mob is formed

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-beach-ball-20120215,0,2555749.story


Why isnt the SOP that "If Rush says it, it must be wrong"?

 

[Brinbe]

Wow, @ whoever consulted Romney to do that... skipping the debate? Really? Not good at all. After he loses Michigan, he'll need all the help he can get re-gaining momentum, and judging from his past debate in Florida, with that new debate coach (if they re-hire him), he's well-positioned to do that.

And I'm with you Ghaleon, I don't think those negative attacks will work for Mittens this time. Completely different electorate than Florida, one which works to Santorum's advantage. And those attacks on a fairly tame (in-terms of demeanor) figure in Santorum won't have quite the same sting as they did against a combustible figure like Newt, who fucked himself with those moon colony gaffes.

 

[RustyNails]

Wow, @ whoever consulted Romney to do that... skipping the debate? Really? Not good at all. After he loses Michigan, he'll need all the help he can get re-gaining momentum, and judging from his past debate in Florida, with that new debate coach (if they re-hire him), he's well-positioned to do that.

And I'm with you Ghaleon, I don't think those negative attacks will work for Mittens this time. Completely different electorate than Florida, one which works to Santorum's advantage. And those attacks on a fairly tame (in-terms of demeanor) figure in Santorum won't have quite the same sting as they did against a combustible figure like Newt, who fucked himself with those moon colony gaffes.

Countdown to Romney's flipflop on his debate skip? I say 48 hours

 

[speculawyer]

On other news, Santorum 42 - Romney 24 in Ohio according to Ras.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...al_election/ohio/2012_ohio_republican_primary

Wow. If at the beginning of this primary season, you asked me who was least likely to give Mitt a run for his money I would have said . . . Well Bachmann & Cain. But after those two, it would be Santorum. I can't believe Santorum is presenting a credible challenged. I would have guessed, Pawlenty, Perry, or Newt. I really don't understand the GOP very well.

I guess you can say Santorum is on a streak?

There is a huge Santorum streak across the mid-West.

 

[speculawyer]

Romney's media playbook for Michigan appears to be the same as in Florida, which of course worked. But I'm less convinced it will this time around because of how Santorum has solidified the social conservatives, and how much it cost Romney's favorables to win Florida. I think we'll know about this time next week if his strategy is working.

I don't think it will work as well in Michigan. Mitt seems pretty tainted due to the "Let Detroit go Bankrupt" stuff. Santorum actually has his own blue-collar manufacturing improvement plan. And he's got that clever Mitt with mud-gun ad. And it is much easier to attack thrice-married, ethics-violation-charged, moon unit Newt than it is to attack squeaky clean boy scout Santorum. It is gonna be close.


Agh . . . damn it. I'm letting myself get my hopes up about Santorum winning in Michigan. That means he'll probably lose.

The shift in focus coincides with the large amount of positive economy, housing market, and unemployment issues. Republicans simply cannot run on the economy, plain and simple.

But this is very fleeting and only applies to right now. By summer gasoline may cost $5/gallon. Before November, Europe could have some collapse. So the economy is still very important . . . just not this week.

Even though Romney and Santorum represent a similar moral conservative ideology, Santorum is much more strange in many aspects that the General Public will simply not vote for.

Well it is a strange choice . . . Santorum is definitely more fundamentalist . . . but he is a Catholic and that is more familiar. Romney is a religious conservative but not so fundamentalist . . . but he is a Mormon.

 

[AlteredBeast]

I don't think it will work as well in Michigan. Mitt seems pretty tainted due to the "Let Detroit go Bankrupt" stuff. Santorum actually has his own blue-collar manufacturing improvement plan. And he's got that clever Mitt with mud-gun ad. It is gonna be close.


Agh . . . damn it. I'm letting myself get my hopes up about Santorum winning in Michigan. That means he'll probably lose.

Which is funny, since apparently (or perhaps, allegedly) he didn't come up with that title...

 

[AlteredBeast]

But this is very fleeting and only applies to right now. By summer gasoline may cost $5/gallon. Before November, Europe could have some collapse. So the economy is still very important . . . just not this week.

If the candidates were intelligent (echo, echo, echo) they would not relent on temporary gains and go for the throat. But, because all of their ideals would only further the pain of the average American's pocketbook, healthcare, and retirements, they can't do that without getting laughed at by the facts.