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[DasRaven]

I only scored 50% on the Santorum or Heavy Metal quiz, and I listen a fair bit to Megadeth. Either Santorum is relentless at town halls, or Mustaine is a closet Christian fundamentalist.

What closet? Mustaine's been a hardcore Christian for at least 10 years now and like his alcoholism before it, it shows up in his lyrics as well.

 

[ronito]

While the Romney plan is nothing more than "Let's give the rich more money!" I have to admit that the Obama plan is, like so many other Obama things, a disappointment. I mean really? No big corporation comes close to actually paying 30% in taxes now. The corp I'm at right now pays 12% after everything and they consider themselves very conservative in taxes. In fact I can't remember a corp I've been at that even approached >15%.

Further corps are the main driving engine of business, small businesses are. Further still this is the old republican gambit of "If we give the corps more money they'll hire more!" That's just silly, it hasn't worked in the last 30 years it wont start now.

He should have been more creative in giving out tax credits for companies that employ citizens and have good benefits and penalize those that outsource excessively.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

That'll sure boost the economy!

I've never understood this one. Republicans sell tax cuts as incentivizing hard work, and thereby helping the economy. Maybe even increasing revenue--the napkin curve and all that.

How the hell does repealing the estate tax incentivize anything except dying?

It's "double taxation."

 

[Aaron Strife]

Obama ties Romney 47-47 in Arizona.

Also, Gov. McDonnell pussied out on the ultrasound bill. Good for him.

 

[Clevinger]

Obama ties Romney 47-47 in Arizona.

I'd like to be optimistic about my state, but I think as fickle as they (and all voters) are to quickly go sour on Romney, they'll be just as quick to warm back up to him and sour on Obama when he goes into General Election/Moderate mode.

But man, Arizona going blue would make my god damn year.

 

[ronito]

Obama ties Romney 47-47 in Arizona.

Also, Gov. McDonnell pussied out on the ultrasound bill. Good for him.

Wow, if Romney can't carry Arizona with it's large Mormon sectors and hugely red voters he doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

I'd like to be optimistic about my state, but I think as fickle as they (and all voters) are to quickly go sour on Romney, they'll be just as quick to warm back up to him and sour on Obama when he goes into General Election/Moderate mode.

But man, Arizona going blue would make my god damn year.

I'd heard speculation that if not for John McCain hailing from there, the Democrats might have had a shot, so it might not be out of the question.

 

[sc0la]

That'll sure boost the economy!

I've never understood this one. Republicans sell tax cuts as incentivizing hard work, and thereby helping the economy. Maybe even increasing revenue--the napkin curve and all that.

How the hell does repealing the estate tax incentivize anything except dying?

You have a bunch of job creators sitting on the sidelines because you have taken away the profit trust-fund motive.

 

[GhaleonEB]

looks like a pander to everyone. If it were merely a 20% cut off of only the top two rates, I could see it the other way. It is going to be damn near impossible to cut 500 billion out of the budget without big cuts to the military. and he has stated that he wont cut military.

Tax increases on the wealthy enjoy broad popular support. The only group opposed are hardcore Republicans, the primary electorate. If Romney announced a plan to raise them on the wealthy and cut them for the rest, that would be a pander to everyone except the people responsible for getting him the nomination. Cutting taxes for the wealthy is a pretty toxic proposal this election cycle outside of the primary.

Obama ties Romney 47-47 in Arizona.

Also, Gov. McDonnell pussied out on the ultrasound bill. Good for him.

From the link:

Part of Obama's resurgence is his becoming more popular. The other part though is Romney's numbers heading in the wrong direction. He was already unpopular in Arizona the last time we polled with a -13 favorability spread (38/51). Now he's dropped even further to -21 (35/56). Romney's numbers with Republicans are pretty much unchanged. But he's gone from having an unusual number of Democrats seeing him positively (25%) to only 15% who mark him favorably across party lines now. And with independents he's dropped from a bad 32/56 to a worse 24/67. The drawn out nature of this campaign is not helping him for the general. ​

The longer this goes on, the worse that number gets, and the harder the general will be. He'll have a deep hole and not much time to climb out of it.

 

[maximum360]

From Ezra Klein:

Mitt Romney just released his latest, revised tax plan. You can read the full thing below. A quick overview: He’s proposing a permanent 20 percent cut to all marginal income tax rates (which means that the top marginal rate would drop from 35 percent to 28 percent). He’d repeal the estate tax and the Alternative Minimum Tax. And he’d pay for the whole thing through “spending cuts of approximately $500 billion” that aren’t specified in the document.​

The full plan is linked there as well. He's promising the tax cuts, without specifying where the costs would be cut from. Of course, we know they would come from social programs and other supports for the not-wealthy. Romeny is absolutely digging himself into a deep hole in the general by proposing tax cuts for the wealthy, especially with how it contrasts with Obama. Definately a plan aimed at the GOP primary electorate.

I think it's a dumb argument to try and trap (mostly hypocritical conservatives) who say "Obama says he's a Christian so I'll take him at his word". That response is actually the correct one. I know what it implies to the GOP base but nevertheless the response is correct. What should be argued instead is that the same logic applies to all. "Rick Santorum says he's a Christian so I'll take him at his word". In reality that's all you can do unless close examination of life and doctrine prove otherwise.

 

[dabig2]

Arizona is still another election or two away from going blue. But when it does, oh boy will it be a lot of fun. Same with Texas who I predict becomes more of a swing state by 2020.

Demographic changes and in general the "changing of the guard" as the baby boomers relinquish much of their power to the younger and more liberal generations is going to hit the conservatives hard. For their own sakes I hope they decide to move leftward after this election season or risk being left behind in history.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think it's a dumb argument to try and trap (mostly hypocritical conservatives) who say "Obama says he's a Christian so I'll take him at his word". That response is actually the correct one. I know what it implies to the GOP base but nevertheless the response is correct. What should be argued instead is that the same logic applies to all. "Rick Santorum says he's a Christian so I'll take him at his word". In reality that's all you can do unless close examination of life and doctrine prove otherwise.

I'm a little confused. Did you mean to quote me? My post was about Romney's tax plan.

 

[Gr1mLock]

Arizona is still another election or two away from going blue. But when it does, oh boy will it be a lot of fun. Same with Texas who I predict becomes more of a swing state by 2020.

Demographic changes and in general the "changing of the guard" as the baby boomers relinquish much of their power to the younger and more liberal generations is going to hit the conservatives hard. For their own sakes I hope they decide to move leftward after this election season or risk being left behind in history.

That future can't come soon enough.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I'd heard speculation that if not for John McCain hailing from there, the Democrats might have had a shot, so it might not be out of the question.

Obama wrote the state off because of McCain's home state status. Nate Silver did an analysis of this and found that while Obama improved over Kerry's performance in regionally similar states (NV, CO, NM), whereas the McCain-Obama margin was the same as Bush-Kerry in 2004.

I'm sure if Huckabee or Romney were the nominee, Obama would have made a bigger play for it.

 

[markatisu]

Arizona is still another election or two away from going blue. But when it does, oh boy will it be a lot of fun. Same with Texas who I predict becomes more of a swing state by 2020.

Demographic changes and in general the "changing of the guard" as the baby boomers relinquish much of their power to the younger and more liberal generations is going to hit the conservatives hard. For their own sakes I hope they decide to move leftward after this election season or risk being left behind in history.

AZ, CO, TX, NM, AZ, NC, will all be blue by 2030. Oh the fun we will have then

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Just had my best friend who is a total conservative, helped campaign for G.H. Bush and huge Reagan fan tell me if Santorum is the nominee in November, he won't be voting.

 

[Mike M]

All Dead Mormons Are Now Gay

No take backs.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

All Dead Mormons Are Now Gay

No take backs.

lol

 

[Averon]

Arizona is still another election or two away from going blue. But when it does, oh boy will it be a lot of fun. Same with Texas who I predict becomes more of a swing state by 2020.

Demographic changes and in general the "changing of the guard" as the baby boomers relinquish much of their power to the younger and more liberal generations is going to hit the conservatives hard. For their own sakes I hope they decide to move leftward after this election season or risk being left behind in history.

Not going to happen. When Romney wins the nom and loses the general, the GOP is going to go further rightward. Romeny losing would be proof to many within the GOP and conservative circles that going the wishy-washy, middle-of-the-road route instead of the hard right route was a mistake. The GOP needs their Mondale election before they even think about shifting to the left even slightly.

 

[Zzoram]

That'll sure boost the economy!

I've never understood this one. Republicans sell tax cuts as incentivizing hard work, and thereby helping the economy. Maybe even increasing revenue--the napkin curve and all that.

How the hell does repealing the estate tax incentivize anything except dying?

Estate tax increases fairness by making children of rich people not be given as big a head start in life.

The funny thing is the GOP always talks about bootstraps and working hard, but trust fund kids just inherit wealth and don't have to work. The estate tax is supposed to reduce that inheritance to encourage those kids to do more than become spoiled socialites.

 

[Wray]

Obama ties Romney 47-47 in Arizona.

Also, Gov. McDonnell pussied out on the ultrasound bill. Good for him.

As I predicted, AZ looks to be a toss up this year. I'm still sticking to my prediction that it flips blue this year.

 

[Measley]

I can't believe that we're still talking about tax cuts after the absolute disaster that was the Bush administration's tax cuts.

They don't create jobs. They don't raise revenues. The only thing they do is make rich people hoard their money, and force the government to cut jobs and services.

 

[Chumly]

I can't believe that we're still talking about tax cuts after the absolute disaster that was the Bush administration's tax cuts.

They don't create jobs. They don't raise revenues. The only thing they do is make rich people hoard their money, and force the government to cut jobs and services.

Sadly to the uniformed it sounds great on paper to have tax cuts. But they won't realize the consequences until property taxes and sales tax goes through the roof to make up funding cuts for state governments, roads , schools etc etc

 

[speculawyer]

I can't believe that we're still talking about tax cuts after the absolute disaster that was the Bush administration's tax cuts.

They don't create jobs. They don't raise revenues. The only thing they do is make rich people hoard their money, and force the government to cut jobs and services.

It is really hard to argue against that given the facts that have played out in reality. Unless you are BigSicilily and want to point to some 2 month period right after the tax cuts but that is meaningless.

 

[AlteredBeast]

It is really hard to argue against that given the facts that have played out in reality. Unless you are BigSicilily and want to point to some 2 month period right after the tax cuts but that is meaningless.

It is impossible to argue against, but it is possible to believe it if you are truly ignorant.

 

[Chichikov]

I can't believe that we're still talking about tax cuts after the absolute disaster that was the Bush administration's tax cuts.

They don't create jobs. They don't raise revenues. The only thing they do is make rich people hoard their money, and force the government to cut jobs and services.

You can blame Obama and the dems who completely bought into that narrative.

 

[daedalius]

You guys should enjoy this:

Rick Santorum... someone please photoshop this!

 

[thezerofire]

I can't believe that we're still talking about tax cuts after the absolute disaster that was the Bush administration's tax cuts.

They don't create jobs. They don't raise revenues. The only thing they do is make rich people hoard their money, and force the government to cut jobs and services.

The argument I've heard is that the tax cuts didn't create jobs because we are in a recession and so the rich don't want to spend when there is so much uncertainty

 

[The Librarian]

Did I get here before someone calls VA Democrats for being hypocrites because they oppose the state mandating ultrasounds – external or otherwise – for women but at the same time support the individual mandate in health care reform?

 

[Measley]

The argument I've heard is that the tax cuts didn't create jobs because we are in a recession and so the rich don't want to spend when there is so much uncertainty

The problem with that argument is that the entire 8 years of the Bush administration had one of the lowest rates of job growth in American history. This occurred even when the presidency and congress was controlled by Republicans, and way before the recession hit in 2008;

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

 

[gcubed]

Arizona is still another election or two away from going blue. But when it does, oh boy will it be a lot of fun. Same with Texas who I predict becomes more of a swing state by 2020.

Demographic changes and in general the "changing of the guard" as the baby boomers relinquish much of their power to the younger and more liberal generations is going to hit the conservatives hard. For their own sakes I hope they decide to move leftward after this election season or risk being left behind in history.

I'm sure the hippies said this back in the day. Who are now conservative voters.

 

[markatisu]

I'm sure the hippies said this back in the day. Who are now conservative voters.

Big difference is the hippies were not Latinos who have basically been co-opted by the Democrats since 2004

 

[The Librarian]

Huh?

You know someone is going to make the comparison.

 

[Suikoguy]

You guys should enjoy this:

Rick Santorum... someone please photoshop this!

Not mine

 

[thezerofire]

The problem with that argument is that the entire 8 years of the Bush administration had one of the lowest rates of job growth in American history. This occurred even when the presidency and congress was controlled by Republicans, and way before the recession hit in 2008;

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/

Thanks, I will use this in the future

 

[speculawyer]

From Ezra Klein:

Mitt Romney just released his latest, revised tax plan. You can read the full thing below. A quick overview: He’s proposing a permanent 20 percent cut to all marginal income tax rates (which means that the top marginal rate would drop from 35 percent to 28 percent). He’d repeal the estate tax and the Alternative Minimum Tax. And he’d pay for the whole thing through “spending cuts of approximately $500 billion” that aren’t specified in the document.​

The full plan is linked there as well. He's promising the tax cuts, without specifying where the costs would be cut from. Of course, we know they would come from social programs and other supports for the not-wealthy. Romeny is absolutely digging himself into a deep hole in the general by proposing tax cuts for the wealthy, especially with how it contrasts with Obama. Definately a plan aimed at the GOP primary electorate.

We are running trillion dollar deficits . . . so we need to CUT TAXES MORE!

WTF? This is nothing but magical thinking. There is no way they could EVER make cuts to pay for that. Go ahead and try . . . you end up having to slash medicare and social security like crazy. The Tea partiers will all instantly threaten to vote against GOPer candidates that try to cut that stuff.

I though Romney was supposed to be the serious candidate. He's nothing but a joke panderer like the rest of the clowns.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

We are running trillion dollar deficits . . . so we need to CUT TAXES MORE!

WTF? This is nothing but magical thinking. There is no way they could EVER make cuts to pay for that. Go ahead and try . . . you end up having to slash medicare and social security like crazy. The Tea partiers will all instantly threaten to vote against GOPer candidates that try to cut that stuff.

I though Romney was supposed to be the serious candidate. He's nothing but a joke panderer like the rest of the clowns.

They'll buy into it anyway because he said "cut taxes"

 

[speculawyer]

All Dead Mormons Are Now Gay

No take backs.

I made Joseph Smith gay. Probably the 10,000th person to do so.

 

[speculawyer]

Not mine

He likes chocolate.

 

[AlteredBeast]

We are running trillion dollar deficits . . . so we need to CUT TAXES MORE!

WTF? This is nothing but magical thinking. There is no way they could EVER make cuts to pay for that. Go ahead and try . . . you end up having to slash medicare and social security like crazy. The Tea partiers will all instantly threaten to vote against GOPer candidates that try to cut that stuff.

I though Romney was supposed to be the serious candidate. He's nothing but a joke panderer like the rest of the clowns.

Romney, nor any other president can really do anything about those funds. They can really only propose cuts on discretionary spending. And since the Military is the biggest part of that, he must be talking about huge cuts to the Military, right? Right?

 

[speculawyer]

The argument I've heard is that the tax cuts didn't create jobs because we are in a recession and so the rich don't want to spend when there is so much uncertainty

Isn't that supposed to be the whole fucking point? That the tax-cuts would prevent a recession? My god, the pretzel logic.

They might as well say "the tax cuts didn't work because they didn't work but they still work."

 

[Arde5643]

Romney, nor any other president can really do anything about those funds. They can really only propose cuts on discretionary spending. And since the Military is the biggest part of that, he must be talking about huge cuts to the Military, right? Right?

Why do you hate America, AlteredBeast?

 

[AlteredBeast]

Why do you hate America, AlteredBeast?

That's the real kicker: I am a really, really conservative person.

 

[Clevinger]

Romney, nor any other president can really do anything about those funds. They can really only propose cuts on discretionary spending. And since the Military is the biggest part of that, he must be talking about huge cuts to the Military, right? Right?

“President Obama believes America's role as leader in the world is a thing of the past. He is intent on shrinking our military capacity at a time when the world faces rising threats. I will insist on a military so powerful no one would ever think of challenging it.”

 

[GhaleonEB]

Romney, nor any other president can really do anything about those funds. They can really only propose cuts on discretionary spending. And since the Military is the biggest part of that, he must be talking about huge cuts to the Military, right? Right?

As it happens, we do know the single most important fact of Romney’s spending plan: It cuts spending as a percentage of GDP to 20 percent by 2016. And it does so while boosting defense spending by billions of dollars. As Romney himself says, that will require spending cuts of about $500 billion in 2016 — and they will all have to come from domestic spending. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities says that though Romney’s numbers were correct a few months ago, recent revisions to the budget outlook put the total closer to $600 billion.

CBPP also ran the math on the sort of cuts Romney would need to reach his target. Using a realistic baseline known as “current policy” — which assumes the Bush tax cuts are extended, and Medicare is protected from automatic cuts that Congress never permits — Romney would need to cut all domestic spending by 20 percent to make his numbers work. But Romney’s proposal says his changes to Medicare and Social Security will only affect “younger generations,” which suggests that Medicare and Social Security won’t see large cuts in the next few years. And once you take those programs out of the mix, Romney needs to cut all domestic spending by 38 percent to make his numbers work.

We’re back to numbers there. So let’s try to return to narrative. If Romney cut Medicaid entirely — took it from the $407 billion its projected to cost in 2016 and moved it to zero — his numbers wouldn’t work. If he then excised out all spending on food stamps — taking them from a projected $80 billion in 2016 to nothing — he still wouldn’t be there.

Romney won’t do that, of course. His cuts presumably will be distributed among many, many more programs. But that thought experiment gives you a sense of the size of the cuts he will need to make. And the reality is that he’s not got many painless places to make them. The largest spending program left to him is Medicaid, which provides health care to low-income Americans, children, and the disabled. Retirement costs for federal employees are a large pot of money, but we can’t break all those promises. Transportation infrastructure is expensive, but we will continue to need to repair our roads. And so on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ey-presidency/2011/08/25/gIQAf9ptTR_blog.html

TAX CUTS


###########

After jumping out to an improbable lead in Michigan a week ago following a sweep in three western states, Santorum still holds a 37% to 34% lead over Romney, who until recently had been considered all but certain to win a state where he was born and grew up. It's also a state where his father, George Romney, was a nationally known auto executive and a popular three-term Republican governor.

Mitt Romney, who left Michigan decades ago as a young man to pursue a business career in Massachusetts (where he later became governor), has made inroads into what some polls showed as a sizeable Santorum advantage following wins two weeks ago in Colorado, Minnesota and Missouri. In metro Detroit, he leads Santorum, the former U.S. senator from Pennsylvania, 41%-26%.

The race remains a volatile one, perhaps right up to the end. Nearly half of the poll’s respondents – 45% — said they would consider changing their minds about who to vote for before Tuesday, and 12% of respondents said they were still undecided who to vote for on Tuesday.

But Santorum continues to show strength, as the conservative base rallies around him: Among self-described conservatives, he leads Romney 46% to 27% (Romney leads among the much-smaller bloc of moderate voters 51% to 17%.) Men favor Santorum 41% to 29% for Romney, and Santorum has built up double-digit leads over Romney in the western and central parts of the state.

http://www.freep.com/article/201202...an-primary?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Not much time left. Tonight's debate will be critical.

 

[mckmas8808]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ey-presidency/2011/08/25/gIQAf9ptTR_blog.html

TAX CUTS

Holy crap. Why even past these tax cuts if he doesn't know how he's going to pay for them?

 

[Chichikov]

Holy crap. Why even past these tax cuts if he doesn't know how he's going to pay for them?

He knows how he's going to pay for them, he's just not going to get elected if he tell the public.

 

[speculawyer]

He knows how he's going to pay for them, he's just not going to get elected if he tell the public.

He has no clue. Nothing that could do it would ever get passed congress

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Rick Santorum is making me feel bad for Mitt Romney. Fuck that guy.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Holy crap. Why even past these tax cuts if he doesn't know how he's going to pay for them?

At this moment Romney is looking at anything that can allow him to re-take the narrative.