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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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T

The Librarian

Banned
uJMRV.png


I don't know why he didn't mention the Obamacare cut. PD, can you point me to it? Obama's delivering a statement at 5:45.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Black Mamba said:
At the end of the day, I wouldn't be surprised if all that happens is a tax cuts for under $250k (or $400k) and nothing else while the spending cuts are simply removed or delayed.

And I mean this next month.

GOP won't vote to allow taxes to increase so we can't get anywhere til January 1st. GOP has no intention to cut spending majorly, so don't expect any grand bargain just bullshit.
Click to expand...

And they won't pass a tax cut for the middle class either until next year after taxes went up for everybody.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
He's stressing the Reid option pretty hard here, he doesn't expect a deal so he is putting pressure on Reid to make sure he does it.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
I wonder if by "bring a bill to the floor" it means Reid will nuke the filibuster for the vote. Which, in turn, might make it easier for filibuster reform to proceed.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
So if Reid/McConnel come up with a kick the can plan and tax cut for under $400k but the House GOP doesn't allow it, it would be petty fucking hilarious and sad.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Yeah, we're getting pretty close to a deal that gets passed by the Senate, but doesn't get enough GOP votes to pass the House. At that point, Obama better bring the fire and brimstone in a nationally televised speech.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
ClovingWestbrook said:
I doubt that a bill would be crafted by Reid and McConnell unless they had confidence it would be passed in the House and that woukd probably require a vast number of Dems voting for it since Repubs won't.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure any deal requires tax raises.

The House GOP has shown it won't vote for tax raises.

In order for the bill to come to the floor for the Dems to vote, Boehner has to allow it. This would be his political death if he went against the GOP House. I think he'd rather wait for the cliff (and technically it's the chairman of the rules committee that does it and if he refuses, Boehner would have to remove him and that would be a bigger mess).


Either the Senate won't come to an agreement or if they do the House won't pass it imo. The key is McConnell. If he is smart, he will not agree in the end because he knows the House won't. In this scenario the news reports will be "leaders in Senate cannot agree!"

But if he's dumb and makes an agreement, the story will be "House GOP rejects chance to vote on bipartisan Senate deal by Senate leaders with Obama support."

i'd be surprised if Boehner allowed a vote and enough GOP jumped ship to pass it. Even that scenario is bad for the GOP. They are big fucking losers in this one, lol.
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
Black Mamba said:
I'm pretty sure any deal requires tax raises.

The House GOP has shown it won't vote for tax raises.

In order for the bill to come to the floor for the Dems to vote, Boehner has to allow it. This would be his political death if he went against the GOP House. I think he'd rather wait for the cliff (and technically it's the chairman of the rules committee that does it and if he refuses, Boehner would have to remove him and that would be a bigger mess).


Either the Senate won't come to an agreement or if they do the House won't pass it imo. The key is McConnell. If he is smart, he will not agree in the end because he knows the House won't. In this scenario the news reports will be "leaders in Senate cannot agree!"

But if he's dumb and makes an agreement, the story will be "House GOP rejects chance to vote on bipartisan Senate deal by Senate leaders with Obama support."

i'd be surprised if Boehner allowed a vote and enough GOP jumped ship to pass it. Even that scenario is bad for the GOP. They are big fucking losers in this one, lol.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree the GOP is the losing party in this but I still believe Boehner MAY let the bill come to the floor for a vote.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Black Mamba said:
I'm pretty sure any deal requires tax raises.

The House GOP has shown it won't vote for tax raises.

In order for the bill to come to the floor for the Dems to vote, Boehner has to allow it. This would be his political death if he went against the GOP House. I think he'd rather wait for the cliff (and technically it's the chairman of the rules committee that does it and if he refuses, Boehner would have to remove him and that would be a bigger mess).


Either the Senate won't come to an agreement or if they do the House won't pass it imo. The key is McConnell. If he is smart, he will not agree in the end because he knows the House won't. In this scenario the news reports will be "leaders in Senate cannot agree!"

But if he's dumb and makes an agreement, the story will be "House GOP rejects chance to vote on bipartisan Senate deal by Senate leaders with Obama support."

i'd be surprised if Boehner allowed a vote and enough GOP jumped ship to pass it. Even that scenario is bad for the GOP. They are big fucking losers in this one, lol.
Click to expand...

The thing is even if they cannot agree, Obama was pushing pretty hard for Reid to just put his own plan out and damn the filibuster. They won't be able to hang this around the Senate if Reid does his job in this whole scenario.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
ClovingWestbrook said:
I doubt that a bill would be crafted by Reid and McConnell unless they had confidence it would be passed in the House and that woukd probably require a vast number of Dems voting for it since Repubs won't.
Click to expand...

That applies to every bill they could possibly come up with. They could set the threshold at 1.5 million and it still would fail in the House.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
B-Dubs said:
The thing is even if they cannot agree, Obama was pushing pretty hard for Reid to just put his own plan out and damn the filibuster. They won't be able to hang this around the Senate if Reid does his job in this whole scenario.
Click to expand...

maybe Obamasked has as Senator Harry Reid to bring up the vote through the reconciliation process. In that case the senate will not have to blow up the filibuster.
 
E

el retorno

Member
David Gregory's not hosting this week. He's hiding from the cops.

edit: wait according to twitter he is.

They announced he wasn't but I guess Obama brought him back. Does obama have the ability to arrest him? That would make good tv.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Holy shit I didn't think my cousin was this dumb...

On that dumb debt ceiling picture:

Raising it has everything to do with our spending. When you meet the debt ceiling you have to raise it more in order to borrow more. Raising the debt ceiling is the equivalent of a credit card, when you reach your credit limit you don't call up the bank and ask to increase it, you pay it off.

If we keep raising the ceiling we keep digging ourselves a bigger hole. Someone eventually is going to have to pay for it. You cannot keep borrowing more to cover your expenses.
Click to expand...
 
R

RDreamer

Member
I'm trying to explain to them that not raising the debt ceiling is more like spending a ton on a credit card and then just saying fuck it and deciding not to pay the bank.

Not that I like getting into stupid analogies with credit cards when it comes to countries, but still....
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
RDreamer said:
I'm trying to explain to them that not raising the debt ceiling is more like spending a ton on a credit card and then just saying fuck it and deciding not to pay the bank.

Not that I like getting into stupid analogies with credit cards when it comes to countries, but still....
Click to expand...

I personally can't handle the whole 'We borrow from China, derp derp, China gonn' own us'
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Cousin's next post:

I realize the money has already been spent. The issue is that at some point the US is going to have to pay it back with interest, or just make minimum payments.

If we don't get our spending down to a reasonable amount its going to leave us scrambling to get credit like Greece.

You can't keep borrowing money, eventually your credit rating gets destroyed and no one or very few places will give you money.

Eventuality it gets paid for, it's just ignorant to think it won't. Or that the only way is through austerity/inflation...
Click to expand...


ClovingWestbrook said:
I personally can't handle the whole 'We borrow from China, derp derp, China gonn' own us'
Click to expand...

I don't even get what they think is going to happen. Like, do they think China can one day just say "Hey, we'd like all that money right now." They get it when the bonds they hold say they get it. No earlier. And what exactly are they going to do with it once they get it that's so scary anyway? Do these people think that since China owns some large part of debt they get to call the shots over here or something? Are they going to enslave us or something somehow?
 
C

ClovingWestbrook

Banned
RDreamer said:
I don't even get what they think is going to happen. Like, do they think China can one day just say "Hey, we'd like all that money right now." They get it when the bonds they hold say they get it. No earlier. And what exactly are they going to do with it once they get it that's so scary anyway? Do these people think that since China owns some large part of debt they get to call the shots over here or something? Are they going to enslave us or something somehow?
Click to expand...

This except with China

Homefront.jpg
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
That applies to every bill they could possibly come up with. They could set the threshold at 1.5 million and it still would fail in the House.
Click to expand...
I feel like there would be some GOPers still willing to vote on a compromise bill - Plan B had some support initially.

But again, it'd need Democrats' votes too.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
RDreamer said:
Cousin's next post:






I don't even get what they think is going to happen. Like, do they think China can one day just say "Hey, we'd like all that money right now." They get it when the bonds they hold say they get it. No earlier. And what exactly are they going to do with it once they get it that's so scary anyway? Do these people think that since China owns some large part of debt they get to call the shots over here or something? Are they going to enslave us or something somehow?
Click to expand...

What does he think China does with the money they get paid back with, btw?
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
RDreamer said:
Cousin's next post:






I don't even get what they think is going to happen. Like, do they think China can one day just say "Hey, we'd like all that money right now." They get it when the bonds they hold say they get it. No earlier. And what exactly are they going to do with it once they get it that's so scary anyway? Do these people think that since China owns some large part of debt they get to call the shots over here or something? Are they going to enslave us or something somehow?
Click to expand...

do you think they understand that they hold treasuries

and not like

warrants to sleep in your american house
 
S

Synth_floyd

Banned
RDreamer said:
Cousin's next post:






I don't even get what they think is going to happen. Like, do they think China can one day just say "Hey, we'd like all that money right now." They get it when the bonds they hold say they get it. No earlier. And what exactly are they going to do with it once they get it that's so scary anyway? Do these people think that since China owns some large part of debt they get to call the shots over here or something? Are they going to enslave us or something somehow?
Click to expand...

Yellow people having power is a scary prospect for many, many people. Not just rednecks but many people at the highest levels of government. Weak US = no military dominance = less markets for US products and services (especially the military industrial complex).
 
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