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[Metaphoreus]

So Obama should decide to do the Supreme Courts job when he thinks its appropriate?

I aint no constitutional scholar but that sounds pretty fucked up to me.

The job of interpreting the Constitution and acting pursuant to its provisions belongs to each branch of government. For this reason, when the Court considers a statute passed by Congress, it usually begins by presuming the law is valid (since Congress and the president obviously thought it was constitutional), and requires the person challenging the law to prove that it isn't.

 

[rocketknight]

So Obama should decide to do the Supreme Courts job when he thinks its appropriate?

I aint no constitutional scholar but that sounds pretty fucked up to me.

No. It's presupposing that in a case like this, for example, the president not enforcing a law he deemed unconstitutional might bring a more relevant case before the court. It's not the court's job to enforce or not enforce laws, but the executive branch's.

 

[rodvik]

No. It's presupposing that in a case like this, for example, the president not enforcing a law he deemed unconstitutional might bring a more relevant case before the court. It's not the court's job to enforce or not enforce laws, but the executive branch's.

So he should stop enforcing the laws at a federal level he doesnt think are constitutional so somebody challenges them and brings them to the supreme court?

What then? If the supreme court says it then is constitutional and he continues to disagree he is free to continue to not enforce the law I assume?

 

[Metaphoreus]

So he should stop enforcing the laws at a federal level he doesnt think are constitutional so somebody challenges them and brings them to the supreme court?

What then? If the supreme court says it then is constitutional and he continues to disagree he is free to continue to not enforce the law I assume?

Of course. What's the Supreme Court going to do? Call the cops?

That said, the president could then simply begin enforcing the law and be shielded from any kind of political backlash by pointing to the Court's opinion (if he needs shielding). And, if Congress feels strongly enough that the president is wrong in refusing to enforce the law, they can impeach him. That's how our checks-and-balances system works.

 

[speculawyer]

This isn't necessarily a downside because it's the myth of Reagan that they want.

But it is mostly a celebratory myth on the right. So much of the Reagan mythology can be shot down with facts, some good some bad.
-Reagan gave us amnesty of illegal aliens
-Reagan negotiated with terrorists
-Reagan wanted to get rid of all nuclear weapons
-Fiscal conservatism? Reagan ran up a bigger debt than EVERY PRESIDENT BEFORE HIM COMBINED.
-Reagan banned publicly carrying loaded weapons
-Reagan didn't kill the Soviet Union, it largely collapsed on its own because its economic system sucked and the late 80's drop in oil prices killed their best source of hard currency.

 

[Aaron Strife]

But it is mostly a celebratory myth on the right. So much of the Reagan mythology can be shot down with facts, some good some bad.
-Reagan gave us amnesty of illegal aliens
-Reagan negotiated with terrorists
-Reagan wanted to get rid of all nuclear weapons
-Fiscal conservatism? Reagan ran up a bigger debt than EVERY PRESIDENT BEFORE HIM COMBINED.
-Reagan banned publicly carrying loaded weapons
-Reagan didn't kill the Soviet Union, it largely collapsed on its own because its economic system sucked and the late 80's drop in oil prices killed their best source of hard currency.

Yeah the problem is Republicans like to tout Reagan as Conservative Jesus, and it works on older citizens because they remember the Reagan years in general as being good times. But for the younger crowd it's difficult to articulate anything he actually did in office that isn't easily disproven or contradicts modern Republican dogma.

What major accomplishments did Reagan get done that furthered the conservative movement? More tax cuts I guess? Most of which are reversed by his pen due to pressure from congressional Democrats anyway. Obama will at least have healthcare and financial regulations to point to, and perhaps immigration reform, ENDA, cap and trade and gun control down the line. I can't see Democrats thirty years from now deviating significantly from those issues.

 

[zero shift]

-Reagan didn't kill the Soviet Union, it largely collapsed on its own because its economic system sucked and the late 80's drop in oil prices killed their best source of hard currency.

This myth annoys me the most. Reagan had nothing to do with it. The Soviet Union was a ticking time bomb. Its no coiencidence that all of the communist nations (Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, and North Korea) started to decline at the exact same time. Its quite shocking that none of them devised a solution to it other than China and to a MUCH lesser extent Cuba.

 

[Oblivion]

But it is mostly a celebratory myth on the right. So much of the Reagan mythology can be shot down with facts, some good some bad.
-Reagan gave us amnesty of illegal aliens
-Reagan negotiated with terrorists
-Reagan wanted to get rid of all nuclear weapons
-Fiscal conservatism? Reagan ran up a bigger debt than EVERY PRESIDENT BEFORE HIM COMBINED.
-Reagan banned publicly carrying loaded weapons
-Reagan didn't kill the Soviet Union, it largely collapsed on its own because its economic system sucked and the late 80's drop in oil prices killed their best source of hard currency.

How'd you forget his most egregious offense? Reagan RAISED TAXES 11 TIMES.

 

[alstein]

It's pretty much a given now the FAA is cutting my job, just saw some pretty damning evidence.

This is what is likely to be gone from weather forecasting over the fiscal year
: The machines and reporting at the contract towers. This wasn't always very accurate as it was just the machines running, but it did give heads-up for warnings
: The human operators at the remaining large airports. This will be given to ATC's, who will view it as their lowest priority, and they have a bunch of work dumped onto them already
: The weather balloons will be cut to one per day. (now it's two). Those initialize the models and make sure they are running correctly. Forecast models will now be less effective.

My job loss sucks, but I'll probably at least somewhat recover. The forecasting and aviation risks are going to be large.

 

[Plinko]

I wanted to make sure people who are strangers to the Supreme Court understand that Plinko doesn't mean that Thomas said one thing during this case, but rather that Thomas has said one thing in the PAST SEVEN YEARS.

Yep--that's insane, isn't it?

 

[NihonTiger90]

It's pretty much a given now the FAA is cutting my job, just saw some pretty damning evidence.

This is what is likely to be gone from weather forecasting over the fiscal year
: The machines and reporting at the contract towers. This wasn't always very accurate as it was just the machines running, but it did give heads-up for warnings
: The human operators at the remaining large airports. This will be given to ATC's, who will view it as their lowest priority, and they have a bunch of work dumped onto them already
: The weather balloons will be cut to one per day. (now it's two). Those initialize the models and make sure they are running correctly. Forecast models will now be less effective.

My job loss sucks, but I'll probably at least somewhat recover. The forecasting and aviation risks are going to be large.

So not only will closing the towers affect the FAA, it's going to impact NOAA and NWS as well?

 

[Chichikov]

This myth annoys me the most. Reagan had nothing to do with it. The Soviet Union was a ticking time bomb. Its no coiencidence that all of the communist nations (Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, and North Korea) started to decline at the exact same time. Its quite shocking that none of them devised a solution to it other than China and to a MUCH lesser extent Cuba.

Reagan had something to do with it.
Killing détente (and his generally taking a much combative stance) most likely delayed the opening of the soviet block by a decade.
We can't know for sure, but we do know now that the USSR had no intention to attack the US in the 80s.
But Reagan was a pussy who saw communists coming to kill him everywhere.
I mean, the guy was afraid of Grenada.

 

[alstein]

So not only will closing the towers affect the FAA, it's going to impact NOAA and NWS as well?

Yep. In fact, they'll get a bigger impact than aviation. The contract towers were just 2.5% of air traffic.

Also, less accurate observations will impact forecasting in the short-term, and the observations will be less-accurate due to untrained ATCs treating observation as a nuisance.

The Balloons are NOAA not FAA though.

 

[pigeon]

Of course. What's the Supreme Court going to do? Call the cops?

That said, the president could then simply begin enforcing the law and be shielded from any kind of political backlash by pointing to the Court's opinion (if he needs shielding). And, if Congress feels strongly enough that the president is wrong in refusing to enforce the law, they can impeach him. That's how our checks-and-balances system works.

The problem here is that you're proposing a constitutional crisis every time a president thinks a law is unconstitutional. This seems a little messy! Generally we try to construct our systems to limit constitutional crises, not to normalize them as part of governance.

Fundamentally, the situation shorn of legalese isn't that complicated. The DoJ explicitly set up this situation to expedite a DOMA case getting to SCOTUS because Obama wants the law overturned but doesn't have a Congressional majority to do it. SCOTUS doesn't want Presidents doing that, because it politicizes the court (even more than it already is). SCOTUS is the court of last resort, not the alternative to legislation. (Before getting too mad, note that this thought process is also why Roberts didn't want to overturn Obamacare.) Now, the complicated thing is that SCOTUS generally agrees the law is unconstitutional! So they basically want to overturn it, they just don't want to make it look like they're rewarding Obama for taking the approach he did. So they have a pretty narrow space to work in. I generally agree with SCOTUS's position on this, really, so I understand why they're kind of grumpy.

 

[Frank the Great]

I thought DOMA is still being fully enforced? It is just that the Obama legal team is not defending its constitutionality in court.

Unless I missed something, I have zero problems with that. The DOJ is not obligated to defend anything. If DOMA is really not being enforced at all just because Obama does not like it, then there is indeed a problem.

 

[alstein]

I thought DOMA is still being fully enforced? It is just that the Obama legal team is not defending its constitutionality in court.

Unless I missed something, I have zero problems with that. The DOJ is not obligated to defend anything. If DOMA is really not being enforced at all just because Obama does not like it, then there is indeed a problem.

I think a President has a right to not enforce laws under the Constitution- though it would be grounds for impeachment. Defunding is banned though by law.

 

[Guileless]

Interesting read regarding Pres. Reagan and the Soviet Union from last summer commemorating the 25th anniversary of his famous speech at the Berlin Wall. These are the words of Eastern European dissidents, not Republicans:

"Everyone was aware of the suffering in the East," Dieter said, "but no one could see what to do about it. Reagan made us understand that maybe things could be different. Here is a piece of wall. Why not remove it? Reagan changed—how would you say it in English? In German, Bewusstsein. Consciousness? Yes. He changed our consciousness..."

In the 1975 Helsinki Accords, Yuri explained, even the West accepted the division of Europe. "Imagine how hard this made our struggle. We almost had to admit that it was hopeless. Then Reagan says, 'Break the wall!' Why break this wall if these borders are valid? To us, it was more than a question of Berlin or even of Germany. It was a question of the legitimacy of the Soviet empire. Reagan challenged the empire. To us, that meant everything. After that speech, everything was in play."

 

[Ketch]

Hey guys. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, and I'm really not trying to start any arguments (first post in poligaf), but I'm looking for an unbiased source for news (yea right). So I was wondering what you guys consider some good sources.

I'm here specifically because I got a bunch of facebook friend spam about the Monsanto Protection Act, but any article I find on it is propaganda rubbish. I'm really not interested in politics, but I would like to keep up with what Monsanto is doing. So if you guys have any thoughts on the monsanto protection act, I wouldn't mind hearing them.

 

[Plinko]

Hey guys. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, and I'm really not trying to start any arguments (first post in poligaf), but I'm looking for an unbiased source for news (yea right). So I was wondering what you guys consider some good sources.

I'm here specifically because I got a bunch of facebook friend spam about the Monsanto Protection Act, but any article I find on it is propaganda rubbish. I'm really not interested in politics, but I would like to keep up with what Monsanto is doing. So if you guys have any thoughts on the monsanto protection act, I wouldn't mind hearing them.

NPR and BBC are good places to start.

 

[Guileless]

I listen to NPR and the BBC World Service and have never heard of the Monsanto Protection Act. What is that?

 

[Ketch]

Thanks for the new source tips Plinko. In case anyone is wondering here's what I found on the "Monsanto Protection Act" from NPR. Still pretty shitty if you're not into eating GMOs, but not the work of the devil (who would have thought?)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/03/21/174973235/did-congress-just-give-gmos-a-free-pass-in-the-courts

 

[Agnostic]

beaten

 

[KtSlime]

I listen to NPR and the BBC World Service and have never heard of the Monsanto Protection Act. What is that?

A free pass to have a monopoly on the production of food in the US. It's a good thing Americans don't care what they shove in their face or where it comes from.

 

[Suikoguy]

Thanks for the new source tips Plinko. In case anyone is wondering here's what I found on the "Monsanto Protection Act" from NPR. Still pretty shitty if you're not into eating GMOs, but not the work of the devil (who would have thought?)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/03/21/174973235/did-congress-just-give-gmos-a-free-pass-in-the-courts

Thanks, there is also a post in OT talking about it:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531180

 

[Chichikov]

Interesting read regarding Pres. Reagan and the Soviet Union from last summer commemorating the 25th anniversary of his famous speech at the Berlin Wall. These are the words of Eastern European dissidents, not Republicans:

I'm not huge on speculative history, but I'm very comfortable in saying that by 1987 the collapse of the soviet block was a foregone conclusion.
By that time Gorbachev already freed the political prisoners and announced an upcoming democratic election.

And while I can't read the article, you quote suggests it argues that Reagan speech was the trigger that showed people they can rise up, and that's downright historically ignorant (and this is but one example).

Listen, it was a presidential speech, presidential biographers love to make them a huge deal because they're easy to write about, but speeches like that have similar effect to Obama's speeches abroad, which is it say, pretty damn limited.

And I think that giving all that credit to a soundbite is borderline disrespectful to the likes of Lech Walesa.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Hey guys. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, and I'm really not trying to start any arguments (first post in poligaf), but I'm looking for an unbiased source for news (yea right). So I was wondering what you guys consider some good sources.

I'm here specifically because I got a bunch of facebook friend spam about the Monsanto Protection Act, but any article I find on it is propaganda rubbish. I'm really not interested in politics, but I would like to keep up with what Monsanto is doing. So if you guys have any thoughts on the monsanto protection act, I wouldn't mind hearing them.

PBS, NPR or BBC

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Hey guys. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, and I'm really not trying to start any arguments (first post in poligaf), but I'm looking for an unbiased source for news (yea right). So I was wondering what you guys consider some good sources.

I'm here specifically because I got a bunch of facebook friend spam about the Monsanto Protection Act, but any article I find on it is propaganda rubbish. I'm really not interested in politics, but I would like to keep up with what Monsanto is doing. So if you guys have any thoughts on the monsanto protection act, I wouldn't mind hearing them.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/mpa.asp

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Also, check debunking/science blogs like Quackwatch, Science Based Medicine, and Science Blogs

 

[speculawyer]

What major accomplishments did Reagan get done that furthered the conservative movement? More tax cuts I guess? Most of which are reversed by his pen due to pressure from congressional Democrats anyway. Obama will at least have healthcare and financial regulations to point to, and perhaps immigration reform, ENDA, cap and trade and gun control down the line. I can't see Democrats thirty years from now deviating significantly from those issues.

Yeah, cutting the top bracket from 70% was a big deal. But he cut them too far and eventually raised them up from the ridiculous lows that created endless deficits. But the modern GOP always seems to conveniently forget that part and only take the message 'cut taxes = good'. Hence the mocking memes of cut taxes to zero = infinite revenue! Cutting taxes from 70% was a one-time thing. (Unless you want to raise them back up to 70% and then cut them to make yourself feel good for cutting them.)

 

[ivysaur12]

This parody Scalia twitter account is pretty great

 

[Chichikov]

This parody Scalia twitter account is pretty great

That's a factual statement.

 

[Guileless]

I'm not huge on speculative history, but I'm very comfortable in saying that by 1987 the collapse of the soviet block was a foregone conclusion.
By that time Gorbachev already freed the political prisoners and announced an upcoming democratic election.

And while I can't read the article, you quote suggests it argues that Reagan speech was the trigger that showed people they can rise up, and that's downright historically ignorant (and this is but one example).

Listen, it was a presidential speech, presidential biographers love to make them a huge deal because they're easy to write about, but speeches like that have similar effect to Obama's speeches abroad, which is it say, pretty damn limited.

And I think that giving all that credit to a soundbite is borderline disrespectful to the likes of Lech Walesa.

Sorry for linking an non-viewable article. You must have to register. Here's an AP article quoting Lech Walesa himself at the 2011 dedication of a Ronald Reagan statue in Warsaw, which portrays Pres. Reagan giving that famous speech:

Former Polish president and anti-communist leader Lech Walesa unveiled a statue of Ronald Reagan on an elegant Warsaw street on Monday, honoring the late U.S. president for inspiring Poland's toppling of communism.

Though Reagan's legacy is mixed in the U.S., across much of central and eastern Europe he is considered the greatest American leader in recent history for challenging the Soviet Union.

The moniker he gave it -- the "evil empire" -- resonated with Poles, who suffered greatly under Moscow-imposed rule.

"I wonder whether today's Poland, Europe and world could look the same without president Reagan," Walesa said. "As a participant in those events, I must say that it's inconceivable."

The 3.5-meter (11.5-foot) bronze statue depicts a smiling Reagan in a historic moment -- as he stood at a podium at Berlin's Brandenburg gate in 1987 and said the famous words, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."

 

[Wilsongt]

Aw. It's so cute how the evangelicals try.

Saw something with the equals sign, and in between the signs it read:
"God Called it a sin."
"Any questions?"
'Read Line One".

 

[speculawyer]

Aw. It's so cute how the evangelicals try.

Saw something with the equals sign, and in between the signs it read:
"God Called it a sin."
"Any questions?"
'Read Line One".

Well I'm glad for them to make such an argument because it exposes the rational behind such laws as an unconstitutional establishment of religion.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I feel so blessed that the government protects my wife and me from the dangers of gay marriage so we can safely go buy some assault weapons

I said goddamn!

 

[zero shift]

Hey guys. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, and I'm really not trying to start any arguments (first post in poligaf), but I'm looking for an unbiased source for news (yea right). So I was wondering what you guys consider some good sources.

I'm here specifically because I got a bunch of facebook friend spam about the Monsanto Protection Act, but any article I find on it is propaganda rubbish. I'm really not interested in politics, but I would like to keep up with what Monsanto is doing. So if you guys have any thoughts on the monsanto protection act, I wouldn't mind hearing them.

People have said the obligatory NPR, PBS, and BBC, but I personally enjoy Al Jazeera the best. They are essentially BBC but with have slightly different biases than the BBC does.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/mpa.asp

I tend to stay away from websites like this after the whole politifacts diabolical.

Reagan had something to do with it.
Killing détente (and his generally taking a much combative stance) most likely delayed the opening of the soviet block by a decade.
We can't know for sure, but we do know now that the USSR had no intention to attack the US in the 80s.
But Reagan was a pussy who saw communists coming to kill him everywhere.
I mean, the guy was afraid of Grenada.

Good point, but I still believe that it was only a matter of time before the USSR failed. Still it would be interesting to see how a modern USSR would play out. Was there really nothing they could have done to save their economy outside of pulling a China?

What major accomplishments did Reagan get done that furthered the conservative movement? More tax cuts I guess? Most of which are reversed by his pen due to pressure from congressional Democrats anyway. Obama will at least have healthcare and financial regulations to point to, and perhaps immigration reform, ENDA, cap and trade and gun control down the line. I can't see Democrats thirty years from now deviating significantly from those issues.

Other than give huge tax cuts he fought against regulations, fought the unions, and turboed in on religion and harsh on crime. Obviously very few here believe that these would be good things but for conservatives its little question to why he is their hero.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I said goddamn!

Sarcasm?

 

[TacticalFox88]

Sarcasm?

Yup. Your token liberal.

I was laughing so hard.

 

[Chichikov]

Sorry for linking an non-viewable article. You must have to register. Here's an AP article quoting Lech Walesa himself at the 2011 dedication of a Ronald Reagan statue in Warsaw, which portrays Pres. Reagan giving that famous speech:

Again, historical revisionism (though I'm guessing he's just being polite at a statue dedication, but Walesa has an interesting relationship with American conservatives, so there might be more to that), I can't speak of "levels of resonance", but Solidarity was formed before Reagan even took office, and by the time he made that quote, Lech Walesa somehow got himself motivated enough to get arrested fighting the communists.

Good point, but I still believe that it was only a matter of time before the USSR failed. Still it would be interesting to see how a modern USSR would play out. Was there really nothing they could have done to save their economy outside of pulling a China?

If nothing else, the Nets would've have a less annoying owner.

 

[speculawyer]

Again, historical revisionism (though I'm guessing he's just being polite at a statue dedication, but Walesa has an interesting relationship with American conservatives, so there might be more to that), I can't speak of "levels of resonance", but Solidarity was formed before Reagan even took office, and by the time he made that quote, Lech Walesa somehow got himself motivated enough to get arrested fighting the communists.

And the whole Reagan being aligned with unions or a union guy praising Reagan is more than a bit awkward.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

HANNITY: All right, last question, we have the issue of the Supreme Court dealing with two issues involving gay marriage. I've asked you a lot of questions. I've never asked you that, what are your thoughts?

CARSON: Well, my thoughts are that marriage is between a man and a woman. It's a well-established, fundamental pillar of society and no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality. It doesn't matter what they are. They don't get to change the definition. So he, it's not something that is against gays, it's against anybody who wants to come along and change the fundamental definitions of pillars of society. It has significant ramifications.

HANNITY: And you know, it's interesting, Justice Sotomayor brought up the issue of polygamy and incest. Where does the definition stop and I guess, we'll be debating it for weeks and months to come.

Don't fear Carson anymore. You're not gonna win a national election trying to tie gay marriage to NAMBLA and Bestiality.

Sorry for linking an non-viewable article. You must have to register. Here's an AP article quoting Lech Walesa himself at the 2011 dedication of a Ronald Reagan statue in Warsaw, which portrays Pres. Reagan giving that famous speech:

That quote doesn't say anything about that speech just the Reagan Presidency in general

 

[rocketknight]

Nate Silver's analysis of marriage equality numbers and trends.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Don't fear Carson anymore. You're not gonna win a national election trying to tie gay marriage to NAMBLA and beastiality

Amazing.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Nate Silver's analysis of marriage equality numbers and trends.

Goddamn. This is over. Put this stuff on the ballot now. Even Utah?

 

[zero shift]

Nate Silver's analysis of marriage equality numbers and trends.

Not surprised that my state (Wisconsin) barely has a majority. Even within the college kids things are divided.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Nate Silver's analysis of marriage equality numbers and trends.

I said holy shit at Mississippi.

Jesus.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Just read that they used the 'gays can't have kids' argument so they shouldn't get married again. How sad.

 

[Incognito]

Looks like Silver simply added 6.1% points for each four year national average. He needed a model for that? No wonder he's been losing credibility. First the Oscars, then NCAA tournament, now this?

 

[KtSlime]

Oh look, Mississippi is down at the bottom, like usual. Who would have guessed?

 

[ivysaur12]

Nate Silver's analysis of marriage equality numbers and trends.

Yup, game over. 2016 should be fun!