Support NeoGAF

[Y2Kev]

If Dems get behind it, it would. And if Obama, Reid and Pelosi are supportive of it, then Congressional Dems would largely fall in line, grudgingly.

And I am, as always, responding to news contingent on the fact that it is not reality yet. Which is to say, if that's the shape of the deal, it's terrible. We should know in a few hours if it is or not.

I don't think Boehner can bring a bill to the floor that isn't going to pass with vast Republican support but would pass with Democratic support. That would be the end of his speakership. Not that it won't be anyway.

I don't feel that UE extension is a suitable compromise either, like all of you. It's almost insulting.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Ironic that once again Republicans being obstinate fucks might save the Democrats from themselves.

Double irony in the fact that their obstructionism has saved us from some terrible deals Dems have put on the table.

Congress really IS run by a bunch of idiots.

-_-'

 

[Aaron Strife]

Or letting someone with a brain negotiate. You can thank Obama for this laughable "compromise" which is one of the most laughable caves in some time. He RAN on getting rid of these hrs and won a large victory. If he cannot get rid of them at this point, why should we expect any dem to do better in the future.

If this passes we're stuck with that rate. Lower revenue for nothing

If only Hillary were president?

Going by her husband's record she would have adopted all the positions of the right and be negotiating with the left.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I don't think Boehner can bring a bill to the floor that isn't going to pass with vast Republican support but would pass with Democratic support. That would be the end of his speakership. Not that it won't be anyway.

When is the vote on his speakership? I want to say it's the 2nd or so, but I'm not sure.

 

[el retorno]

I need to be rich. Screw the dems giving everything for the rich. Not surprised though most of them will benefit.

 

[Y2Kev]

First day of every new Congress. So the 2nd I guess.

 

[worldrunover]

Why Republicans think they’re winning the ‘fiscal cliff’

To the GOP’s delight, that no longer seems to be the case. In the Obama-Boehner negotiations, the White House offered to raise the threshold from $250,000 to $400,000. McConnell, in his negotiations with Harry Reid and now Joe Biden, has been trying to raise that to $500,000. It’s clear to the Republicans that they will get past the fiscal cliff with a smaller tax increase than they thought. Perhaps much smaller. Huzzah!

That will set up a fight over the debt ceiling. The Republicans plan to say that now that they broke their pledge and voted for a tax increase, they’ll insist on a dollar of spending cuts for every dollar of debt-ceiling increase — the so-called “Boehner rule”. The White House plans to insist that it won’t negotiate over the debt ceiling at all.

Republicans laugh at this bluster. Obama is already negotiating over the debt ceiling, they point out. He began the fiscal cliff negotiations by saying he wanted a permanent solution to the debt ceiling. Then it was a two-year increase in the debt limit. Now he’s going to sign off on a mini-deal that doesn’t increase the debt ceiling at all. Does that really sound like someone who’s going to hold firm when faced with global economic chaos? The White House always talks tough at the beginning of negotiations and then always folds at the end. Republicans are confident that the debt ceiling will be no different.

 

[Clevinger]

Why Republicans think they’re winning the ‘fiscal cliff’

"The White House plans to insist that it won’t negotiate over the debt ceiling at all.

Republicans laugh at this bluster. Obama is already negotiating over the debt ceiling, they point out. He began the fiscal cliff negotiations by saying he wanted a permanent solution to the debt ceiling. Then it was a two-year increase in the debt limit. Now he’s going to sign off on a mini-deal that doesn’t increase the debt ceiling at all. Does that really sound like someone who’s going to hold firm when faced with global economic chaos? The White House always talks tough at the beginning of negotiations and then always folds at the end. Republicans are confident that the debt ceiling will be no different."

They should be laughing. He's pathetic.

 

[The Librarian]

 

[Mike M]

Well the wheels certainly fell off quickly now, didn't they?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Chait says this gives up a quarter of the revenue dems would get with the 250k threshold...and for what? Absolutely nothing. Republicans want to delay the sequester cuts to expire almongside the debt ceiling, and dems may be listening. These are cuts Obama can personally delay as head of the executive branch, yet he is ceding power to the GOP, at least publicly.

If now is not the time to fight for the agenda, when is it time to? As I have said for days, he views politics as a game of historical success at any cost. I would have been fine with a 300k threshold after Jan 1st, now we might not get there. Once again, Obama hands republicans victory from the jaws of defeat. He is not a leader, period.

 

[The Librarian]

Seems like that businessinsider article posted earlier was wrong, at least in one respect. Senate GOP is pushing for a three-month delay of sequester cuts; Senate Dems are saying that's unacceptable.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Wtf, I'm actually rooting for the tea party to blow this shit up lol.

 

[RDreamer]

Wtf, I'm actually rooting for the tea party to blow this shit up lol.

Same here, kind of. If the tea party blows this up, they're done and the republican party has then hit rock bottom. Even with the memories of goldfish I don't think the republicans could hold the house in 2014 if they do that. .

But, we shall see. The American electorate always continues to amaze me.

 

[watershed]

Since we don't know the details of the potential deal yet I'm not gonna freak out. But I don't like the dynamic of dems compromising even more just to craft legislation that can pass the house with majority republican support as that seems to be what Senate republicans are angling for.

 

[The Librarian]

https://twitter.com/murphymike/status/285787425614217216

 

[Aaron Strife]

I don't want to speculate until an actual deal passes either chamber.

If we go off the cliff we'll see what the Senate comes up with after filibuster reform and more liberal members are sworn in.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Sounds like both sides don't like the deal. Republicans won't get spending cuts, dems get just unemployment benefits. Meanwhile Boehner likely can't even pass this. Leadership hasn't sunk the teeth in yet on the senate side, so we don't know whether the complaints are real, or people reserved to an inevitable shit sandwich they have to eat.

Never thought the tea party would be more on my side than the White House. Our last hope is that they scuttle any deal.

 

[B-Dubs]

Since we don't know the details of the potential deal yet I'm not gonna freak out. But I don't like the dynamic of dems compromising even more just to craft legislation that can pass the house with majority republican support as that seems to be what Senate republicans are angling for.

I think we are all just used to the Dems folding on everything. Whatever the deal is it isn't going to be everything we want but I'd like to think it would be better than 450k and what we are currently hearing.

 

[GhaleonEB]

https://twitter.com/murphymike/status/285787425614217216

Yay.

 

[Acheron]

Why does anyone care about Obama caving on taxes? The whole point is to ensure economic expansion, if nitwit deficit hawks understood how sovereign debt actually works no spending cuts or tax increases would occur until the economy recovered.

Obama has no need or ince five to solve America's long term budget problems when the US is still stuck in the mud and the Dems own the economy (for some silly reason). It's best to live to fight another day and take credit for saving the economy as the GOP spirals into ever more insane stunts than look like you were willing to risk everything for tax hikes. Believe me that is what the Dems would look like.

 

[Beowulf28]

So much for the election giving Dem a better negotiating position.

 

[ido]

I am fairly ignorant on what "going off the cliff" would mean to me personally. Will this affect my tax refund in February?(With havings kids, house, etc, I always get a rather decent tax refund)

It just seems like not compromising would be best in the end, though.

 

[el retorno]

Why does anyone care about Obama caving on taxes? The whole point is to ensure economic expansion, if nitwit deficit hawks understood how sovereign debt actually works no spending cuts or tax increases would occur until the economy recovered.

Obama has no need or ince five to solve America's long term budget problems when the US is still stuck in the mud and the Dems own the economy (for some silly reason). It's best to live to fight another day and take credit for saving the economy as the GOP spirals into ever more insane stunts than look like you were willing to risk everything for tax hikes. Believe me that is what the Dems would look like.

I care about income inequality. Tax cuts for the rich won't help anything

I am fairly ignorant on what "going off the cliff" would mean to me personally. Will this affect my tax refund in February?(With havings kids, house, etc, I always get a rather decent tax refund)

It just seems like not compromising would be best in the end, though.

No your tax refund is based on last year . It will take more out of your paycheck this year but I'd imagine any deal would retroactively give it back

 

[PhoenixDark]

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/20...oker-player/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

Seems to be the case whether this deal occurs or not. Four years, absolutely no change in strategy or behavior

I probably won't even follow the debt ceiling fight, I'll just check my portfolio and see whether it disappears or not.

 

[ido]

No your tax refund is based on last year . It will take more out of your paycheck this year but I'd imagine any deal would retroactively give it back

This is good news, although I have been reading that this could delay refunds and was wondering if that had any merit.

 

[el retorno]

The moment the clock strikes midnight they better revert on taxes seeing how if they do nothing they have the higher rates.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Ezra says 600b revenue over ten years keeps coming up. Wow. Obama is going to let the deficit and fiscal skirmishes that harm the economy dominate his next four years.

 

[Averon]

It sounds like Boehner passing the buck to Mitch McConnell might end up being a very smart political play.

 

[CharlieDigital]

I'll just check my portfolio and see whether it disappears or not.

As long as you're investing for the long haul, it shouldn't be an issue.

In fact, I'm looking forward to the fiscal cliff and potentially a 5-10% dive in the markets.

 

[Officerrob]

It sounds like Boehner passing the buck to Mitch McConnell might end up being a very smart political play.

That's definitely one way of looking at it

 

[TacticalFox88]

So much for the election giving Dem a better negotiating position.

It did. They're just not properly utilizing it. Add to the fact that we're getting conflicting reports, it's hard to know whats *actually* going on.

 

[Acheron]

I care about income inequality. Tax cuts for the rich won't help anything

It's a lot easier to worry about income equality and pass such legislation of you're growing at 3-4% a year.

 

[CharlieDigital]

It's a lot easier to worry about income equality and pass such legislation of you're growing at 3-4% a year.

What if the income inequality is part of what is stagnating growth?

It's really hard to have a strong consumer base -- and no one consumes like Americans consume -- if the base gets squeezed harder and harder every year.

 

[RDreamer]

It's a lot easier to worry about income equality and pass such legislation of you're growing at 3-4% a year.

Not really. People are stupid. The only way to raise taxes on anyone is if we're all shaking in our boots over a big scary number, apparently. Only then will the poor turn against their oppressors, and they only do so reluctantly. It's only an "if we have to, then I guess they should pay a little more." When times are good the sheep won't turn against their herders, even slightly.

 

[Averon]

Can't believe I'm rooting for the Tea Party caucus. Dems suck at negotiations. If this is a preview, then the debt ceiling will be a catastrophe.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Freakout PoliGAF is back I see. Why not wait to see what a final deal actually includes?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Can't believe I'm rooting for the Tea Party caucus. Dems suck at negotiations. If this is a preview, then the debt ceiling will be a catastrophe.

Don't forget Obama wants a seperate, big fiscal deal. So we could get some ugly package in January or Febuary, then in March even more cuts for the debt ceiling raise.

 

[B-Dubs]

Freakout PoliGAF is back I see. Why not wait to see what a final deal actually includes?

Freaking out is apparently more fun.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Freakout PoliGAF is back I see. Why not wait to see what a final deal actually includes?

Have you seen the latest polls in Ohio?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Freakout PoliGAF is back I see. Why not wait to see what a final deal actually includes?

Because what is in development is worth discussing.

 

[ISOM]

Freakout PoliGAF is back I see. Why not wait to see what a final deal actually includes?

Huffingtonpost is the ring leader in freaking out. They are already acting like it's the final deal.

 

[Byakuya769]

Why would I wait to see the deal, when I can affect the shitty deals they're discussing right now? Do some of you think the final deal will appear out of thin air?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Go over the cliff Dems

Only reason to move from 250k to 450k would be if we get 100 billion in infrastructure spending in return

Looks like we were better off when Biden hadn't joined in. Just 600b in new revenue is embarrassing.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Why would I wait to see the deal, when I can affect the shitty deals they're discussing right now? Do some of you think the final deal will appear out of thin air?

McConnell and Biden are reading GAF for input.

 

[NullPointer]

Gotta imagine some of these details being leaked just to cause freakouts and put the pressure on.

/watches-too-much-west-wing

 

[PhoenixDark]

Dems are in the process of giving away the farm, why wouldn't I be worried. It's not like negotiations will improve - they're already arguing over how much to cave.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I still don't understand why the WH cant see the benefits of going over the cliff then passing a tax cut deal. You get the tax hikes for free plus much needed cuts on defence. Plus you teach the gop that their tactics won't work.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Go over the cliff Dems

Only reason to move from 250k to 450k would be if we get 100 billion in infrastructure spending in return

Looks like we were better off when Biden hadn't joined in. Just 600b in new revenue is embarrassing.

Only a 100 billion? This country has over 3 trillion dollars worth of infrastructure that needs badly replacing/fixing.

100 billion would be the equivalent of using a water bucket to try and put out a house fire.

 

[The Librarian]

I still don't understand why the WH cant see the benefits of going over the cliff then passing a tax cut deal. You get the tax hikes for free plus much needed cuts on defence. Plus you teach the gop that their tactics won't work.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...1/the-case-for-the-dems-negotiating-strategy/