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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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Anybody remember Ripclawe? He appeared randomly in my "people you may know" thing on Twitter. So I decided to take a look at some of his tweets.

Obama causes market freakout – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/266198140984635394
Obamacare cuts jobs – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/265606320969875456
Welfare checks get votes – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/265794414826377216
Ripclawe blasts Obama for behaving like a politician – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/266050673823596544
No longer a center-right nation :( – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/266014872607813633

And my favorite: https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/288810337669619712

He still reads gaf

@Ripclawe
Nothing wrong with slut shaming . Hoes wannabe hoes , Hoes get called out for being Hoes

FUCK BOBBY JINDAL:

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/gov_bobby_jindal_calls_for_eli.html



I'm thinking about making a thread in OT about this. This is about the biggest "fuck you" to the poor (or anybody that isn't rich, really) he can do.

Worth a thread. and yeah, screw him.

Oh fuck it. Let him do it and the world will learn how that just doesn't work.
no they won't they'll just cut more saying "we don't have money, sorry"
 
FUCK BOBBY JINDAL:

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/01/gov_bobby_jindal_calls_for_eli.html

I'm thinking about making a thread in OT about this. This is about the biggest "fuck you" to the poor (or anybody that isn't rich, really) he can do.

Yep. Regressive as hell. It's actually quite easy to simplify a "complex" income tax. Make it progressive (ideally with a 0% bracket) and without deductions or credits. Whatever your income is, take a percentage of that and pay it. Easy breezy.

Anybody remember Ripclawe? He appeared randomly in my "people you may know" thing on Twitter. So I decided to take a look at some of his tweets.

Ripclawe was always an extremist. I didn't realize he had been permed but I suppose I did notice a distinct lack of tabloid look-at-what-this-welfare-recipient-did articles.
 

pigeon

Banned
That is definitely a big part of it but not all of it. Prop 13 has starved the state of property taxes but the income tax I guess makes up for it. The 2/3s required to pass a tax increase but only a majority to approve spending is a fundamental balance that can screw things up.

But California does have too many programs for everything and does need to cut back. There are plenty of ridiculous examples of state workers abusing overtime rules and collecting hundreds of thousands. Pensions are too generous and were built on a pyramid scheme.


As an example of a program that shouldn't exist, I had a car fail smog check . . . well there is a state program that helps you pay for your car repair to pass the smog check. Well that's nice but if you can afford a car then you should be able to afford the repair for it! Cut that program! You just end up with a lot mechanics making repairs that just happen to cost the maximum amount available from the program.

I'm glad Jerry Brown got in and started slashing all sorts of wasteful and abused programs.

I feel like this is a terrible, terrible example of a wasteful program. The whole point is that most everybody needs to own a car in California but the smog standards make it a very expensive state in which to own a car -- so there are subsidies for poor people so that they can still get to work. I had my car fail smogging (not really, just a sensor had broken) and the repairs were quite expensive -- but I can't just say "fuck it," I need to be able to drive. The only reason I can afford my car is because it's ten years old! And, unsurprisingly, the fact that it's ten years old makes it that much more likely that it'll fail smog checks. You kind of picked an archetypal example of a good spending program that serves as a vital buttress for California's effective but expensive quality-of-life regulations like air quality.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Yep. Regressive as hell. It's actually quite easy to simplify a "complex" income tax. Make it progressive (ideally with a 0% bracket) and without deductions or credits. Whatever your income is, take a percentage of that and pay it. Easy breezy.
A billion times this. Alas it will not happen :/
 
More on bad negotiating tactics

The Inside Story of How Obama Could Have Gotten a Better Tax Deal Without Biden
From my after-the-fact discussions with Democratic aides in the House and Senate leadership, it’s clear that Reid had a plan for resolving the cliff and considered the breakdown of his talks with McConnell very much a part of it. By involving Biden, Obama undercut Reid and signaled that he wanted a deal so badly he was unwilling to leave anything to chance, even when the odds overwhelmingly favored him. It suggested that even if Obama plays his cards exceedingly well in the run-up to the debt-limit showdown, he could still come away with a worse deal than he deserves because of his willingness to make concessions in the closing moments.

Here’s what happened near the end of the cliff talks, as I understand it. On Friday, December 28, Obama handed off the negotiations to Reid and McConnell, with the caveat that he wanted a vote on a fallback plan to raise taxes on income above $250,000 for couples (and $200,000 for individuals) if they couldn’t strike a deal by Monday the 31st. The two Senate leaders made some progress but hit a wall Saturday afternoon. Reid had offered to move the threshold up to $450,000 for couples and $360,000 for individuals in exchange for a one-year extension of federal unemployment benefits and delaying the automatic spending cuts known as the sequester for a year. McConnell was unwilling to go so low on the income-tax threshold or so long on the sequester delay. He was also asking for a change to Social Security’s cost of living adjustment—a fairly significant benefit cut. After huddling with his staff late Sunday morning, Reid told McConnell he had no more concessions to give.

Not long after, McConnell went to the Senate floor saying he had placed a call to Biden but hadn’t heard back. Sunday night, Reid’s staff went to bed aware that Biden had returned McConnell’s call but assuming nothing would come of it. “There was no indication [Biden] would engage,” says a Senate Democratic leadership aide close to the talks. Alas, it didn’t work out that way. Reid’s staff woke up Monday morning to discover that Biden had opened up his own negotiation with McConnell. The Republican leader had accepted a $450,000 income-tax threshold ($400,000 for individuals) and Biden was offering him a three-month delay of the sequester. (The eventual deal was a two-month delay.)

Reid was furious. In a call, he told the president that he or Biden would have to come to the Senate and pitch the deal to Democrats themselves--Reid wanted no part of it himself. But while other accounts have portrayed Reid’s frustration as stemming from the substance of the deal, Reid was just as frustrated over the fact that he'd been in the middle of executing his own plan, which was now moot.


According to the Senate aide, Reid believed that one of two things would happen if the negotiations were allowed to play out his way: Either McConnell, who obviously wanted a deal, would have come slinking back to him and basically accepted Reid’s last offer. “It would have been great if he called Biden and no one called him back,” says the leadership aide. “He would be so desperate for a deal that he took whatever he could get.” Or, less likely, McConnell would have thrown in the towel, allowing Reid to hold a vote on the Democratic fallback bill, which would have moved the income threshold back to $250,000 while extending unemployment insurance and a series of tax credits for the poor and middle class.

The latter might well have passed the Senate—Reid believed there were close to 60 votes for it—but would have been unlikely to pass the House, sending us over the cliff. In that case, Reid assumed the House GOP would have taken the blame, and that Republicans would rapidly soften up. Reid’s plan was to then work out another deal with McConnell that would have provided a small fig leaf—perhaps a slight rise in the income threshold above $250,000, but not close to $400,000 or $450,000—which would have likely passed on Saturday, January 5 (basically the soonest possible date). The aim was to pass this new bill with a large bipartisan majority (just as the eventual compromise did), thereby isolating the House GOP and forcing them to pass it too.

This may seem a bit far-fetched—how could Reid be so confident, after all? Obama, for one, worried that missing the cliff deadline could mean waiting for weeks if not months to resolve the situation. According to a senior White House official, the embarrassing failure of John Boehner’s “Plan B” meant the House might “never be able to act … and this would bleed into debt ceiling.” The official added: “Our hand is weakened on the debt ceiling if the economy is spiraling out of control and everyone’s taxes were up.”

But there were good reasons to believe the endgame would play out the way Reid envisioned. Reid’s model was the payroll tax cut fight of late 2011, when he and McConnell struck a deal to renew the tax cut for two months because they couldn’t agree on how to pay for a year-long extension. The deal passed the Senate overwhelmingly, at which point conservatives in the House revolted. For a day or two, the outcome looked uncertain—polls showed the public favored the tax cut, but the House had dug in. At that point, Obama suggested to Reid that they reopen the negotiations, but Reid, according to the Senate aide, told him, “Don’t you dare.” Democrats held the line, and the House GOP abruptly folded. When all was said and done, Democrats got an even better deal than they’d hoped for. The Republicans were so eager to put the episode behind them they dropped their insistence that the tax-cut extension be offset with spending cuts.

Long story short: Reid’s strategy would have at worst produced a slightly better deal than Biden negotiated had McConnell accepted his final offer before the cliff (a slightly lower threshold for the new top income tax rate and a one-year suspension of the sequester rather than a two-month suspension). At best it could have produced significantly more revenue (closer to a $300,000 threshold) had we briefly gone over. But Reid never got the chance to execute it. “Their guys were running around asking to be forced to vote for this so they could move on,” says the Senate aide of the GOP. “Everything Republicans were doing signaled weakness and desperation for a deal. Unfortunately, everything out of the White House did, too.”
http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/11174...-negotiations-letting-biden-haggle-mcconnell#

As I have argued, the cliff provided an opportunity to force republicans to pass a better deal within the first 10 days of January. Reid understood this, and it's not surprising why he was so upset with the deal: it gives republicans the high ground for the debt ceiling.

What if Boehner manages to pass a debt ceiling raise in mid Febuary that slightly lifts the ceiling, paired with specific spending cuts most dems don't like - perhaps including chained CPI, which the president supports; this would certainly attract at least a couple democrat votes, enough to seize the bipartisan mantle. Meanwhile a clean debt ceiling raise passes the senate with no republican votes.

If Obama couldn't hold his ground during the fiscal cliff, when he had the high ground - how can anyone possibly expect him to hold his ground for the debt ceiling, when he will have less leverage?
 

watershed

Banned
Its impossible to know how much of this inside baseball chat is real or just spin. I don't buy Reid turning into a tough guy all of a sudden, ex-boxer and all.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
Reid can play tough guy all he wants, if he balks at changing the filibuster rule, it's all just going to ring hollow.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Reid can play tough guy all he wants, if he balks at changing the filibuster rule, it's all just going to ring hollow.

Pretty much. If he wants to prove he's a tough guy who is going to fight for people then he's gotta reform the filibuster. At least make Senators stand the fuck up and talk, read a book, do whatever just so we know it's actually happening and what asshat to blame when people's SS checks don't come in the mail.
 
Reid can play tough guy all he wants, if he balks at changing the filibuster rule, it's all just going to ring hollow.

It feels like I've read reid's gonna be a tough guy every time this kind of happens. But its always a what-if it never comes to pass. If I never see anything how can I believe it.
 
There isn't really any point to fillibuster reform until democrats can actually get back the house.

Great, stuff can be passed by the senate, only to never get past the house.

Only thing that might be useful is making the cabinet appointments not require 60 senate votes.
 

Nert

Member
Given the discussion surrounding property taxes and mortgage interest rate deductions that took place during the lead-up to the fiscal cliff, I found this article to be pretty interesting: Wealthiest Buyers Undeterred by New Taxes on London Luxury Homes. I'm still convinced that beginning to phase out housing related deductions for the wealthy would be an easy source of revenue (well, not politically easy, but it's low-hanging fruit in economic terms).
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Oh christ...

Sad to see your friend go, man.

I know a bunch of gun owners where I work. They're guys who are even buying up some guns right now (one guy in particular just bought a shotgun and stuff), and they're against the assault weapons ban thing. But they all hate the NRA. All of them. And not even just in a "they say what I think, but I'd rather not have them saying it so loudly" sort of way, either.

Yeah, it sucks. A part of me wants to tell him that he shouldn't listen to the crazies, but I've actually had friendships ruined cause of politics, so I'm a little worried of bothering.

Seems less about inequality and more about stupidity and hatred. In this case, hatred of a democrat president, and willful stupidity to justify it. To date Obama has never argued for gun confiscation or a repeal of the second amendment. His recommendations will likely be a return of old regulations (assault weapons ban) and reinforcing laws that are already on the books (background checks). Plus perhaps closing gun show loopholes, which most Americans and NRA members agree with. Most Americans also support banning high capacity mags, although I can understand why some folks feel that type of ban would go too far (and likely would not be particularly helpful to lowering crime/attacks).

I see nothing extremist about this, and thus must come to the conclusion that the FUD coming from right wing individuals is rooted solely in anger, resentment, and ignorance.

He's definitely not a fire breather type wing nut, but seems to be the kind of person that's easily manipulated and influenced.
 
That is definitely a big part of it but not all of it. Prop 13 has starved the state of property taxes but the income tax I guess makes up for it. The 2/3s required to pass a tax increase but only a majority to approve spending is a fundamental balance that can screw things up.

But California does have too many programs for everything and does need to cut back. There are plenty of ridiculous examples of state workers abusing overtime rules and collecting hundreds of thousands. Pensions are too generous and were built on a pyramid scheme.


As an example of a program that shouldn't exist, I had a car fail smog check . . . well there is a state program that helps you pay for your car repair to pass the smog check. Well that's nice but if you can afford a car then you should be able to afford the repair for it! Cut that program! You just end up with a lot mechanics making repairs that just happen to cost the maximum amount available from the program.

I'm glad Jerry Brown got in and started slashing all sorts of wasteful and abused programs.
The smog fail voucher is a good program.
An old catalytic converter replacement is usually a $300+ job.
Add to that vacuum hoses and sensors and a tune up, exhaust leaks or any other part of the pollution control system and it can easily add up.
Plus, most of the time it's going to be on older beaters not on new cars so more than likely it's going to be someone whose income can easily be affected by a simple failed smog check and not many people know of the program anyways. Using public transportation is not a solution since we all know how crappy it is in SoCal. To get from the South Bay to Downtown LA could be a three or four hour bus ride or even more when it can be as little as 30 minutes depending on traffic and time using a car.
 
RE: Sales tax.

Theres a way to make it progressive.

Look at Brazil, the tax varies by item.

(numbers made up, just examples)

Beans: 0
Beer: 55%
Books: 2%
TVs: 25%
Imported TVs: 100%
Cigarettes: 95%
Vegetables: 0%

Etc.
 

Tideas

Banned
RE: Sales tax.

Theres a way to make it progressive.

Look at Brazil, the tax varies by item.

(numbers made up, just examples)

Beans: 0
Beer: 55%
Books: 2%
TVs: 25%
Imported TVs: 100%
Cigarettes: 95%
Vegetables: 0%

Etc.

dumb idea. that's gonna hurt the middle class more.
 
Neither McCain or Romney were tea-partied in the primary. If Christie remains popular, he'll probably win the nomination, just after having bowed to conservative pressures like McCain and Romney did.

First off Christie and Romney are two completely different animals. Romney is a shapeshifting shuckster who will gladly sell his firstborn to get the Repub nomination. He is a classic cartoon villain, twirly mustache and all. He must have taken at least 3 positions on any single issue in his political life, contingent upon the direction the political winds were flowing. He succumbed very early on to the extremist voices in the party. Christie is not like that. He's not gonna kneel and grovel at the feet of power brokers in the right wing. I don't see him adopting one position, and doing a complete 180 during a live presidential debate. He's not going to contradict one statement twice or even thrice during the same day. All these traits will make it very difficult for him to win the primaries. His entire thing is that he's got real talk. He chastised Boehner, sang love sonnets for Obama and has no favors with the tea party.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Seriously. PD was the loudest poster yelling that Reid was a pussy and now all of a sudden he could have been the hero? Give me a fucking break. Dude will post anything to make Obama look bad it's ridiculous.

He was also saying that Obama should get more involved and stop leading from behind. lol


'We need Obama to get more involved! Start using the bully pulpit and get hands on. Though, if he hadn't gotten involved, we would have had a better deal! Damn you Obama!'
 

Tim-E

Member
Nooooooooooo. Dam is there any dems that could possible win that seat in WV

I don't think there's any democrat here that could beat Capito, who's already announced to be running for the seat. None of them here have the name recognition that she does, plus the state's been sliding into the red on a state-wide level. Throw on a "Democrats are running a war on coal" campaign mixed with some "Takin' our gunz" and she has it in the bag.
 

Tim-E

Member
That's what we said at the last vacancy in WV. And when Conrad retired. And to McCaskill. And...

To early to call.

There was no question that Manchin was going to win Byrd's seat in 2010. He's incredibly popular here. I live here, and I assure you there's no Democrat as well-liked as Capito is. I don't think Nick Rahall has any aspiration for running for the Senate and losing his House seat and potentially the Senate race. She's absolutely crushed any Democrat that's challenged her since she's won her House seat.

I don't think state Democrats should just roll over, but the odds are against them as of right now.
 

gcubed

Member
i dont know about you guys but i'm super excited for when Obama announces gun control executive orders. Its going to be such an amazing week
 

kehs

Banned
The latter might well have passed the Senate—Reid believed there were close to 60 votes for it—but would have been unlikely to pass the House, sending us over the cliff. In that case, Reid assumed the House GOP would have taken the blame, and that Republicans would rapidly soften up.

yeahok.gif
 

GhaleonEB

Member
There was no question that Manchin was going to win Byrd's seat in 2010. He's incredibly popular here. I live here, and I assure you there's no Democrat as well-liked as Capito is. I don't think Nick Rahall has any aspiration for running for the Senate and losing his House seat and potentially the Senate race. She's absolutely crushed any Democrat that's challenged her since she's won her House seat.

I don't think state Democrats should just roll over, but the odds are against them as of right now.

May well be, but the exact same things were said throughout the last cycle. Thompson was a shoo-in for Senate, Conrad's seat in North Dakota was toast, etc. So the tenor is familiar, this far out. That's all I was saying.
 

Tim-E

Member
May well be, but the exact same things were said throughout the last cycle. Thompson was a shoo-in for Senate, Conrad's seat in North Dakota was toast, etc. So the tenor is familiar, this far out. That's all I was saying.

I understand that. I'm interested to see who is put forward from the Democrats. Democrats can obviously win statewide elections here, but she's always been the one state Republican that makes us liberals shake in our boots.
 

LosDaddie

Banned
That's what we said at the last vacancy in WV. And when Conrad retired. And to McCaskill. And...

To early to call.

True, but it's going to be hard to keep the seat in WV. I'm curious to see who Dems put up against Rick Scott here in FL.


Anybody remember Ripclawe? He appeared randomly in my "people you may know" thing on Twitter. So I decided to take a look at some of his tweets.

Obama causes market freakout – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/266198140984635394
Obamacare cuts jobs – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/265606320969875456
Welfare checks get votes – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/265794414826377216
Ripclawe blasts Obama for behaving like a politician – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/266050673823596544
No longer a center-right nation :( – https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/266014872607813633

And my favorite: https://twitter.com/Ripclawe/status/288810337669619712

wow


He knows he's awful at this but tries so hard to be a political guru. His doubling-down is rank desperation. He's seeking relevance in his life but Poli GAF isn't it. Kind of sad, really

damn... :lol
 
Car Companies XP Vehicles, Limnia Sue U.S. Over Loans

“Defendants used the ATVM loan program as nothing more than a veil to steer hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to government cronies,” according to the district court complaint.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-10/car-companies-xp-vehicles-limnia-sue-u-s-over-loans.html
Ah . . . well cronies are a bad thing . . .

The companies are being represented by Daniel Epstein, executive director for a Washington-based nonprofit advocacy group. He previously worked for a foundation started by Koch Industries Inc. Chief Executive Officer Charles Koch, a billionaire contributor to Republican-leaning causes. He was also counsel for Republican U.S. Representative Darrell Issa’s House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which is leading a probe of the department’s loan programs.
And so you file a law suit to support your political cronies? What a joke!

XP Vehicles, or XPV, said it applied in 2008 for a $40 million loan in an effort to mass produce an SUV-style electronic vehicle with doors and other parts made from foam. The starting price for the vehicle was to be less than $20,000.
An electric car for less than $20K. Built out of foam. Yeah, that sounds legit. LOL.

This lawsuit should be thrown and sanctions assigned to the people who filed this transparent political circus.

In hindsight, the loan programs were not a very good mechanism. I think the tax-credit for EVs is a much better system since it allows everyone to compete for the tax-credits on a level playing field such that there can be no claims about cronyism. But this lawsuit is ridiculous.
 
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