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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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B-Dubs

No Scrubs
iulgvAM6fgxSC.gif

So, we're all going to have some fun with this.

Try setting the video to music and watch the magic happen.

It works with every song, some better than others obviously. This is just glorious.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oh lord. Trey Gowdy introduced a bill to sue the president for changing laws or not enforcing them and now the right thinks he's some goddamn hero.

The vote was 233-181 in the Republican-led House as GOP lawmakers excoriated Obama for multiple changes to his 4-year-old health care law, steps he’s taken to allow young immigrants to remain in the United States and the administration’s resistance to defend the federal law banning gay marriage.

Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., sponsor of the ENFORCE the Law Act, delivered a fiery speech and read a series of statements by Obama when he was an Illinois senator in which he warned of the encroachment of the executive on the powers of the other branches of government.

“How does going from being a senator to a president rewrite the Constitution?” Gowdy asked. “What’s different from when he was a senator? Mr. Speaker, I don’t think there’s an amendment to the Constitution that I’ve missed. I try to keep up with those with regularity.”

Gowdy went on to argue that “process matters” in law enforcement, noting that evidence gathered with a legitimate search warrant is thrown out if an officer so much as accidentally checks the wrong box on the application.

“Even though he was well-intended, even though he had good motivations, even though he got the evidence — because process matters,” he added.

“We all swore an allegiance to the same document that the president swears allegiance to, to faithfully execute the law,” Gowdy continued. “If a president does not faithfully execute the law… what are our remedies?”

He then argued that Congress should do exactly what then-Sen. Obama suggested before he was president of the United States: “To go to the Supreme Court and have the Supreme Court say once and for all: ‘We don’t pass suggestions in this body. … We don’t pass ideas — we pass laws. And we expect them to be faithfully executed.”
 
Oh lord. Trey Gowdy introduced a bill to sue the president for changing laws or not enforcing them and now the right thinks he's some goddamn hero.

smh

If this goes through, can we also sue all of the people in congress who aren't doing what the law says they're supposed to be doing, as well?
 

Lowmelody

Member
Oh lord. Trey Gowdy introduced a bill to sue the president for changing laws or not enforcing them and now the right thinks he's some goddamn hero.

Goddamit, is he steamrolling them or bypassing them? There is a balance of powers, and they have made it clear they will not even ALLOW the system to represent its citizens as intended, of course it will have to be balanced by a branch that will. Fuckers. Lateral ass self parodies between this and the weak/tyrant paradox though. As if fucking with congressional process was the same as thumbing one's ass while they pile drive any step to progress of any kind.
 

KingK

Member
They're (upper?) middle class white dudes who are technophiles that's like stock libertarian stuff. Now that I'm thinking about it, what did gaming think of bioshock?



Hey I like family guy. I admit its not the greatest show, I just really enjoy it making me laugh for 20 minutes that really it. Its a bunch of loosely connected gags, that's it. Its nowhere near the Simpsons seasons 2-9ish. That is genuinely great television.

I do think American Dad is a much better show. There is some great writing hidden in there.

I was an aerospace engineering major at Purdue for 2 years before I switched, and I noticed a shit ton of libertarians. Of course most of them also came from wealthy families where both parents were both engineers or doctors or something, so idk if it just has more to do with class than being an engineer.

Also, Family Guy is pretty good to have on in the background while doing something else, because you can catch a 30 second gag that can make you laugh without previous context every now and then. American Dad is legit great, but Futurama is the greatest, imo. I enjoy the Simpsons, and watched it religiously from ages 8-14, but I don't like it as much anymore for some reason.

edit: Holy shit, Jon Stewart just decapitated Fox News, stuck the head on a pike, and hung the body naked from a tower regarding their response to his food stamps bit from earlier. God damn.
 
The irony about Colin Moriarty is that he's publicly said on multiple podcasts that he's OK with public funding for a new stadium for the Islanders. In other words, he's a socialist like everybody else when it comes to things he cares about.
 
The irony about Colin Moriarty is that he's publicly said on multiple podcasts that he's OK with public funding for a new stadium for the Islanders. In other words, he's a socialist like everybody else when it comes to things he cares about.
To be fair he doesn't come off as a complete maniac asshole in the video podcast which is all I know of his opinions. He did throw a few bones at the reality of helping support the least able of the society, the cognitive dissidence aside.
Someone like JayDubya actually was/is a gaping asshole who cloaks himself in the constitution.

But every shade of grey Colin wades into he gets absolutely wrong. Because he is profoundly ignorant about the facts.

That is the only way to explain how he calls himself 'a proud Republican'.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Goddamn last nights opening segment to the Daily Show was amazing. It encapsulated everything I love about Jon, because underneath the comedy and the satire and the jokes you get segments like this where it is just so crystal clear just how much he cares about things like helping the poor and America's issues with demonizing the less fortunate and idolizing business.
 
Given that the House is not going to flip and the Dems are basically assured of losing the Senate, this could be a good thing for the inevitable Hillary candidacy. Gives her something to run against.
 
Given that the House is not going to flip and the Dems are basically assured of losing the Senate, this could be a good thing for the inevitable Hillary candidacy. Gives her something to run against.

Too bad she'll be bogged down by her connections to the administration.
 
Too bad she'll be bogged down by her connections to the administration.
You know I'm pretty sure Obama would have been bogged down more and that seemed to work out for him.

But tick-tock, there's going to be some huge Obama scandal any day now and Romney's gonna score a hail-Mary with Scott Brown, the only Republican who can simultaneously win in Massachusetts and New Hampshire.
 
You know I'm pretty sure Obama would have been bogged down more and that seemed to work out for him.

But tick-tock, there's going to be some huge Obama scandal any day now and Romney's gonna score a hail-Mary with Scott Brown, the only Republican who can simultaneously win in Massachusetts and New Hampshire.
Hearing PD talk about Obama feels like this administration is worse than Bush. Honestly its annoying as hell now.

PD you have been wrong about everything, including Rick Snyder. Your predictions are wrong because they originate in opposite land. Dont say Hillary cant win. Please understand.
 
Hearing PD talk about Obama feels like this administration is worse than Bush. Honestly its annoying as hell now.

PD you have been wrong about everything, including Rick Snyder. Your predictions are wrong because they originate in opposite land. Dont say Hillary cant win. Please understand.

It's undeniably worse on civil liberties and the expansion of drones. But obviously I voted for Obama twice and would again to prevent a GOP extremist from attaining the presidency. At the end of the day I genuinely dislike the president in many ways, but he has done some things I like.

A lot of people were tricked by Snyder, I don't beat myself up over that. Michigan would be marred by high unemployment no matter who won, but at least Detroit wouldn't be starve to death with a dem governor.
 
It's undeniably worse on civil liberties and the expansion of drones. But obviously I voted for Obama twice and would again to prevent a GOP extremist from attaining the presidency. At the end of the day I genuinely dislike the president in many ways, but he has done some things I like.

A lot of people were tricked by Snyder, I don't beat myself up over that. Michigan would be marred by high unemployment no matter who won, but at least Detroit wouldn't be starve to death with a dem governor.
How is he WORSE on civil liberties? He stopped torture, Established a legal regime for surveillance (I know you don't agree but its undoubtedly better than Bush's attitude), tried to close Gitmo, tried to fight voting restrictions, helped expand gay marriage, dream act by executive order. And yeah the final 3 are civil liberties issues. Your big problems have nothing to do with Obama being 'worse' but continuing certain bush policies and being pissed tech advances.

The only thing I think Obama is worse at is the antagonisms towards the press. Even with that I have my sympathies with leak investigations and think some of them are criminal.

And your excuses for your Snyder votes continue to baffle any sense of logic. You bought into conservative economic policy. That's it.
 
A lot of people were tricked by Snyder, I don't beat myself up over that. Michigan would be marred by high unemployment no matter who won, but at least Detroit wouldn't be starve to death with a dem governor.

There is nothing that can ever justify voting for a Republican in any election.

How is he WORSE on civil liberties? He stopped torture, Established a legal regime for surveillance (I know you don't agree but its undoubtedly better than Bush's attitude), tried to close Gitmo, tried to fight voting restrictions, helped expand gay marriage, dream act by executive order. And yeah the final 3 are civil liberties issues.

I'd call it a draw. Without any meaningful organized left, both parties will continue to have abhorrent civil liberties records.
 
PD you have been wrong about everything, including Rick Snyder. Your predictions are wrong because they originate in opposite land. Dont say Hillary cant win. Please understand.
I know my predictions veer towards optimism more than anything else (+2 in the Senate baby, book it) but I don't think I've had anything comically misfire as badly as PD.

I mean I remember really pulling for Feingold but by Election Day I knew he was done. Which is funny because I also pulled hard for Baldwin and everyone mocked me for it so that was cool.
 
It's undeniably worse on civil liberties and the expansion of drones. But obviously I voted for Obama twice and would again to prevent a GOP extremist from attaining the presidency. At the end of the day I genuinely dislike the president in many ways, but he has done some things I like.
You voted for Obama because Romney was as substantative as bundle of sticks. You probably would have voted for Christie if he ran because Snyder vote tells you that you are prone to drinking their kool aid. All of the snooping programs were started under Bush right after 9/11 including the NSA's big data collection. Only a Paulite would shut everything down and dismantle the NSA. Along with the Federal Reserve and Departmentt of Education. Drones were the price to pay after pulling our troops out from foreign lands. How is that worse? Granted he has used them in Yemen and Pakistan, but I would rather him use them than send boots on the ground or seek help of corrupt governments. That does not make him equal to or worse than Bush.
 
I'd call it a draw. Without any meaningful organized left, both parties will continue to have abhorrent civil liberties records.
I can understand that, if I disagree. But I think its a mistake to deem it a left right issue. Seems more like a trust vs distrust issue. I don't think anybody supports spying but the issue has been partisian because people trust the system when they're in power and most people don't have a general bipartisan distrust of government.
 

Vahagn

Member
It's undeniably worse on civil liberties and the expansion of drones. But obviously I voted for Obama twice and would again to prevent a GOP extremist from attaining the presidency. At the end of the day I genuinely dislike the president in many ways, but he has done some things I like.

A lot of people were tricked by Snyder, I don't beat myself up over that. Michigan would be marred by high unemployment no matter who won, but at least Detroit wouldn't be starve to death with a dem governor.

Pragmatism doesn't mean supporting Republicans, Pragmatism means listening to experts and taking in their advice when making decisions. Lots of centrist Dems vote Repub from time to time to feel like they're not ideologues, but they're looking in the wrong area.


the NSA thing is definitely a problem. I don't think anyone's happy that it happened under Obama (even though it wasn't started there). But that's what happens when Neo-Cons of either party infiltrate the intelligence community and they tend to stay for decades.

These are people that were indoctrinated as children and young adults under the Cold War set of assumptions. America is the bastion of Good and Freedom that must be there to fight Tyranny and instill it's will all across the world lest the power vacuum leave that responsibility up to others.

Articles like this are useful

The hope on that front is that even the right wing people in their 20's and 30's are usually Paulian anti-interventionists. That Neo-Con sentimentality is probably going to wane as the McCains and Schumers and such pass away or leave the spotlight.
 
You voted for Obama because Romney was as substantative as bundle of sticks. You probably would have voted for Christie if he ran because Snyder vote tells you that you are prone to drinking their kool aid. All of the snooping programs were started under Bush right after 9/11 including the NSA's big data collection. Only a Paulite would shut everything down and dismantle the NSA. Along with the Federal Reserve and Departmentt of Education. Drones were the price to pay after pulling our troops out from foreign lands. How is that worse? Granted he has used them in Yemen and Pakistan, but I would rather him use them than send boots on the ground or seek help of corrupt governments. That does not make him equal to or worse than Bush.
I think the Snyder vote is especially funny considering how PD gives Obama shit for "caving" when he offers a concession to the GOP (that they almost never take him up on so who cares?). It's not like Republicans make an overt attempt to hide their most right-wing views, they just get their balls washed by the media that's desperately looking for a moderate Republican who can run for president.

That's not to say Obama hasn't made some boneheaded negotiating mistakes, but you vote for Republicans and bitch when the president starts giving too much to the Republicans? hurr

And I'm sure if the GOP still holds the House when Hillary is in office she'll be just as bad. Funny how all that bullshit about permanent majorities and mandates goes out the window once the Democrats start winning.
 

East Lake

Member
Yeah that's a pretty dumb article. When I hear inner city I think poor and black. Paul Ryan knows exactly what he's doing and how it's perceived. If you're poor, white, and rural or elsewhere really it gives you a very separate identity. Sure you're wages are getting eroded and you can't afford health care without subsidies but at least you value work unlike the inner city degenerates. The last quote in there is the dumbest. Don't criticize Paul Ryan now, he's making an effort to help the poor! ... by singling out blacks as lazy! That'll do it!
 
How is he WORSE on civil liberties? He stopped torture, Established a legal regime for surveillance (I know you don't agree but its undoubtedly better than Bush's attitude), tried to close Gitmo, tried to fight voting restrictions, helped expand gay marriage, dream act by executive order. And yeah the final 3 are civil liberties issues. Your big problems have nothing to do with Obama being 'worse' but continuing certain bush policies and being pissed tech advances.

The only thing I think Obama is worse at is the antagonisms towards the press. Even with that I have my sympathies with leak investigations and think some of them are criminal.

And your excuses for your Snyder votes continue to baffle any sense of logic. You bought into conservative economic policy. That's it.

We're never going to agree on survellience, or the ridiculous half measure "legal regime" involved. Throw in assassinating a US citizen and the authoritarian pursuit of whistle blowers and yes, I have no problem calling this administration worse on civil liberties.

And to be honest I don't even buy the idea that we no longer torture. But as I have no evidence, it's not something that I'd harp on personally.
 
We're never going to agree on survellience, or the ridiculous half measure "legal regime" involved. Throw in assassinating a US citizen and the authoritarian pursuit of whistle blowers and yes, I have no problem calling this administration worse on civil liberties.

And to be honest I don't even buy the idea that we no longer torture. But as I have no evidence, it's not something that I'd harp on personally.
Still having a hard time seeing how he's WORSE. He continued Bushes policy. and your last sentence I think gives away what I think this worse than bush meme is about.

It's disaffected liberals who are pisses he didn't do all they wanted so turn this disapointment into wild exagerations and conspiracy theories while whitewashing completely what the why bush was so horrible.
You even admit your making shuff up.
 

bonercop

Member
, Established a legal regime for surveillance (I know you don't agree but its undoubtedly better than Bush's attitude),

whether this is a good thing is arguable. With this move, a lot of the shitty bush practices have been institutionalized and reversing that will be a long, difficult process.

more importantly, obama turned liberals into apologists advocates for government surveillance
dream act by executive order

he also has more deportations under his belt than any other president, ever.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I think the Snyder vote is especially funny considering how PD gives Obama shit for "caving" when he offers a concession to the GOP (that they almost never take him up on so who cares?). It's not like Republicans make an overt attempt to hide their most right-wing views, they just get their balls washed by the media that's desperately looking for a moderate Republican who can run for president.

That's not to say Obama hasn't made some boneheaded negotiating mistakes, but you vote for Republicans and bitch when the president starts giving too much to the Republicans? hurr

And I'm sure if the GOP still holds the House when Hillary is in office she'll be just as bad. Funny how all that bullshit about permanent majorities and mandates goes out the window once the Democrats start winning.

I don't like Hillary for her centrist platform on many issues, but the one thing I'm sure she'll be better at than Obama is with dealing with Republicans. She's been in politics long enough to know all the tricks, and the Diane Blair papers definitely shows her as someone that is a fighter, at least compared to Bill.
 
whether this is a good thing is arguable. With this move, a lot of the shitty bush practices have been institutionalized and reversing that will be a long, difficult process.

more importantly, obama turned liberals into apologists advocates for government surveillance
Bush made all government surveillance some kind of existential evil. I don't want to end surveillance like many seem to want. I want to reform it and subject it to legal limits. I want the NSA spying on people that want to harm the US, and nakig sure the US has the best information to make decisions. I want them using a lot of tools I read about in these reckless leaks. I like the NSA and CIA

I don't want wanton spying, I'm extremely disgusted by general warrants and a few other things have worried me. I think they're needs to be more evidence before a lot of these things techniques are used as well. And I don't like the NSAs attitude and disregard for oversight.

But again and again I see leaks that show nothing illegal, wrong or worrying. I see greenwald and snowden assuming radical ideas about the nature of the internet and fear mongering intentionally (they want to elminate all privacy!) to stoke fear and mistrust lacking any actual evidence of harm or more than intermittent and isolated misuse that some of the leaks show was aknowledged and fixed!). They're (greenwald especually) leaking tactics to undermining them on the POSIBILITY they're going to set up some Orwellian state again absent any damn evidence. You'd figure this evidence would be in what snowden stole but its continued absence is striking. The entire premise has been set up where this is inevitable which I think is flawed and dangerous.

The police have the ability to shoot me dead at any time. I don't go running around in fear they will because I know there are systems that will hold them to account and punish them if they do (they need work in many aspects Certainly). I don't want to take away their guns. I also don't want to take away NSAs figurative gun. I just want them to be scared they will be held to account if they use it wrong. So that's why I think the legal regime is important and why I don't want to eliminate what they most of have built. That seems to me to be a extreme overreaction. I think this is the same feeling Obama has.

I know this position is unpopular here but i dont think its radical. I've held this view longer than Obama becoming president. Its not general partisian defense.
 
I don't like Hillary for her centrist platform on many issues, but the one thing I'm sure she'll be better at than Obama is with dealing with Republicans. She's been in politics long enough to know all the tricks, and the Diane Blair papers definitely shows her as someone that is a fighter, at least compared to Bill.

As her Senate career shows she'll acquiesce to the Republicans when the wind is blowing in that direction.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Surprised this wasn't posted so far. Douchebag congressman tries to gotcha question a Canadian doctor. Doesn't work out as planned:

BURR: On average, how many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year? Do you know?

MARTIN: I don’t, sir, but I know that there are 45,000 in America who die waiting because they don’t have insurance at all.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/martin-1-burr-0
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Also, can I just take a minute to bitch about how Paul Ryan managed to once again bamboozle the mainstream media into thinking he's a deeply "serious" "thinker". Seriously, being a Republican politician has gotta be one of the easiest professions in the world. Think about it. After the election, the boy genius realizes that he's got a reputation for wanting to use poor people for fertilizer and decides he needs to fix that perception. So he decides to go on this poverty tour to prove that he's trying to be more connected to the filthy poors. And what happens? Does he learn ANYTHING from this? No! He's just as much of a Randian twat as he was before, if not worse.

But that's not what you hear from the MSM. Despite the fact that he still wants to tear the social safety net to shreds, idiots on the Washington Post can't help but gush over the fact that he's giving the IMPRESSION that he cares, which as we all know is even more important than, you know, actually showing you care.
 

fallagin

Member
whether this is a good thing is arguable. With this move, a lot of the shitty bush practices have been institutionalized and reversing that will be a long, difficult process.

more importantly, obama turned liberals into apologists advocates for government surveillance


he also has more deportations under his belt than any other president, ever.

Yeah, it is pretty shameful that some democrats try to defend it even though it is 100% against the idea of civil liberties.

As for deportations... I dont blame him that much for it. The right would have crucified him over it if he was lax on immigration. Though I guess the same can be said over surveillance..
 
Yeah, it is pretty shameful that some democrats try to defend it even though it is 100% against the idea of civil liberties.

As for deportations... I dont blame him that much for it. The right would have crucified him over it if he was lax on immigration. Though I guess the same can be said over surveillance..


Except right-wing media crucify him for being lax on illegal immigrants anyways, facts be damned.
 
whether this is a good thing is arguable. With this move, a lot of the shitty bush practices have been institutionalized and reversing that will be a long, difficult process.

more importantly, obama turned liberals into apologists advocates for government surveillance


he also has more deportations under his belt than any other president, ever.

And the worst part about the surveillance and the drones are that it's completely unnecessary.

We have no politicians today saying the truth, that international terrorism and Muslim extremism aren't that big of threats to our society. Al-Qaeda isn't this huge international organization with hundreds of sleeper cells in every city, it was much much smaller than the media made it out to be.

Another major terrorist attack by Muslim extremists is about as likely as a major terrorist attack by another Timothy McVeigh.

But just like our national debt, Obama buys into right wing rhetoric and refuses to tell the people the truth.
 
And the worst part about the surveillance and the drones are that it's completely unnecessary.

We have no politicians today saying the truth, that international terrorism and Muslim extremism aren't that big of threats to our society. Al-Qaeda isn't this huge international organization with hundreds of sleeper cells in every city, it was much much smaller than the media made it out to be.

Another major terrorist attack by Muslim extremists is about as likely as another major terrorist attack by another Timothy McVeigh.

But just like our national debt, Obama buys into right wing rhetoric and refuses to tell the people the truth.
This just isn't true, I can see you arguing that its not worth the effort (I disagree vehemently) But saying there's no reason for the intelligence community to be searching and monitoring terrorism and other dangers is just naive or not concerned about the impact attacks can have. Terrorist attacks are not accidental deaths. They're murders and the government should be stopping murders.
 

Chichikov

Member
Bush made all government surveillance some kind of existential evil. I don't want to end surveillance like many seem to want. I want to reform it and subject it to legal limits. I want the NSA spying on people that want to harm the US, and nakig sure the US has the best information to make decisions. I want them using a lot of tools I read about in these reckless leaks. I like the NSA and CIA

I don't want wanton spying, I'm extremely disgusted by general warrants and a few other things have worried me. I think they're needs to be more evidence before a lot of these things techniques are used as well. And I don't like the NSAs attitude and disregard for oversight.

But again and again I see leaks that show nothing illegal, wrong or worrying. I see greenwald and snowden assuming radical ideas about the nature of the internet and fear mongering intentionally (they want to elminate all privacy!) to stoke fear and mistrust lacking any actual evidence of harm or more than intermittent and isolated misuse that some of the leaks show was aknowledged and fixed!). They're (greenwald especually) leaking tactics to undermining them on the POSIBILITY they're going to set up some Orwellian state again absent any damn evidence. You'd figure this evidence would be in what snowden stole but its continued absence is striking. The entire premise has been set up where this is inevitable which I think is flawed and dangerous.

The police have the ability to shoot me dead at any time. I don't go running around in fear they will because I know there are systems that will hold them to account and punish them if they do (they need work in many aspects Certainly). I don't want to take away their guns. I also don't want to take away NSAs figurative gun. I just want them to be scared they will be held to account if they use it wrong. So that's why I think the legal regime is important and why I don't want to eliminate what they most of have built. That seems to me to be a extreme overreaction. I think this is the same feeling Obama has.

I know this position is unpopular here but i dont think its radical. I've held this view longer than Obama becoming president. Its not general partisian defense.
While some surveillance is indeed justified, without leakers like Snowden you would've never known about the stuff you find appalling, whatever damage leakers have done (which by the way no one was able to demonstrate) pales in comparison to the public service they provided by allowing public discourse on the issue.
For real, you don't see the value in knowing that the head of the NSA straight up lied to congress?

And while Obama is probably not as bad as Bush on that front (talk about faint praise) the fact that he implicitly and explicitly supported most of these programs had done more to entrench them than Bush could've have ever done. There used to be meaningful political opposition to this, now thanks to Obama there isn't.
And his unprecedented persecution of whistle blowers made it even more unlikely that we'll know about future transgressions of the intelligence community.
This just isn't true, I can see you arguing that its not worth the effort (I disagree vehemently) But saying there's no reason for the intelligence community to be searching and monitoring terrorism and other dangers is just naive or not concerned about the impact attacks can have. Terrorist attacks are not accidental deaths. They're murders and the government should be stopping murders.
We had all the information to stop 9/11, it wasn't lack of surveillance ability or those stupid 4th amendment that stopped us.
I see little evidence that this unprecedented level of surveillance is helping American interests in any meaningful way, the US still seem to be caught off guard whenever anything happens around the world.
And while you obviously can't prove a positive, considering that every little idiot who got baited to buy fake explosives on a message board get paraded to hell and back, I find it a bit hard to believe that they're stopping countless terror attack but they just can't tell us because reasons.

p.s.
I generally think that spycraft is overrated as all fuck, the Soviets bitchslapped the US intelligence community to hilarious levels throughout the cold war, what good did it do for them?
 
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