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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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I thought they were just talking about election spending. Lobbying is a different beast. It's my fault if I misread it.
Well they are very closely tied. You are not going to get Bernie Sanders to give you oil company tax cuts . . . but when you get Smoky Joe Barton into office . . . .well, he'll give you anything you want.


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You gotta be kidding. President of a country that he doesn't think exists?
 

benjipwns

Banned
Modern libertarianism is anarcho-capitalism.
The line between anarcho-capitalism and libertarianism has always been a thin layer of the state. Nothings changed from Albert Jay Nock and Rose Wilder Lane through ol Murray.

If anything's "new" to "modern" libertarianism it's probably the paelo variety that opposes immigration. (And usually the gays too.)
 

benjipwns

Banned
Can you expand on this?
Apologies for not getting back to you earlier.

It's inherent in its nature. Policy is crafted by a single corporation that imposes it on all that it claims within its purview. This concentration of power creates an elite class that writes policy. Now who makes up this elite? Obviously not just anyone, because the goal is to create "good policy" which means you seek out the elite class of those within the purview of the policy.

This is what creates regulatory capture. If you were to write, say oil industry regulations you can't just assemble some random dopes ala the jury method and have them do it. You need someone who has knowledge of the oil industry. Their knowledge of the regulations and its process increases their value to those subject to the regulations and its processes. And then consequently their increased knowledge of the oil industry increases their value back to the policymakers and regulators.

The elite few behind policy is effectively the main corporation and those it assembles to assist it, often other elite corporations because large corporations prefer to do business with each other not smaller and more difficult to manage competitors.

This is why even "democratic" impetus for policymaking is dominated by the elite few when it comes time to craft the actual policy. (If they aren't behind the impetus to begin with.) To once again use my favorite example, Mattel imported a bunch of lead laden toys from China. "The people" got outraged and the government moved to correct this problem with policy. The resulting policy increased testing costs that fell in a quite disproportional manner on small firms and consumers, something that benefits somebody like oh, say, Mattel. But then the kicker, because there's always one: Mattel was exempted from the regulations!

The government has an unique monopoly. As it expands this monopoly into various areas of life it obviously would draw the interest of the elites in whatever area to insure they benefit from the monopoly power entering the realm. This is mutual gain between the elite corporations because one is allowed to expand its influence and the ones being expanded upon gain the access to utilize its monopoly powers to suppress competitors.

This is why PEMEX is such a culture of outsized power and corruption and immunity from accountability despite being "in the hands of the people" obstinately. It's all these things wrapped into one AND a source of a determined constituency.

So what does all this rambling mean? When you transcend the First Amendment limitations it's not actually empowering "millions" but empowering the elites to further close out competitors. You're actually reducing the number of voices being heard. As is to gain access to the monopoly power you essentially have to go through two corporations which have set all the rules. Mounting an independent or third party bid has massive costs in comparison. Whereas those corporations by their access to the monopoly power have agreed to "let you pick" from the two options they have chosen to offer. Mounting a primary challenge WITHIN these corporations has outsized costs if you don't already have elite ties within them.

The marketplace of ideas is limited to those with elite access. The two major political corporations, the billion dollar corporations given access by "press" privileges or the mentioned nature of regulatory capture, and anyone else the monopoly power or elite within it grants access to. But that's it. If you're cast outside this elite group your power drops tremendously.

The Koch Brothers, George Soros, Sheldon Adtkison, the unions (who benefited from Citizens United too we can't forget!), etc. (Along with the internet.) are the types of things that help to reduce the costs of challenges to the existing elite structures. The Tea Party primary victories are a direct result of this, any forthcoming progressive/Green/OWS-associated rises will also benefit from this increased capability to participate. Until the duopoly's hold is broken and the electoral process reformed to reduce the costs, you need a way to pay for those costs.

Reducing political say to periodic voting doesn't do this because voting has insignificant power.

Maybe expanding access will result in worse people getting elected and worse policies being enacted. But that's what you get with democracy. And you can always go back to the current system of elite rule or further in that direction.

TL;DR: I'm an nutjob.
 
Haven't seen this in here yet:

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https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/459144830325518336/photo/1

I hope he bought some tiger penis, too!

and how did Cruz's office respond?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...4/the-day-after-cruz-posed-with-a-tiger-skin/

Frazier, Cruz’s spokeswoman, wrote to us that the office is not defensive of the picture.

“It’s unfortunate the same outrage isn’t displayed by the left when it comes to defending the lives of hundreds of thousands of unborn babies aborted every year,” she said in an email.

wow
 

East Lake

Member
Thanks for typing that out. I gotta say though it sounds defeatist? Like there is a mafia, but since there will always be a mafia you can pay them for protection. If you want to do something about the mafia that's probably a waste because there will always be a mafia, so you pay them to do stuff in addition to extortion and murder.

If Republicans and Democrats are the two megacorps that are the gateway to wealth that seems to me to be something that ought to be seriously discouraged no matter that the Koch's and Soros and friends are spending for ideological purposes in addition to business. Getting rid of the modern campaign funding (bribe) system and discouraging the revolving door would be the position to take rather than let billionaire money swat politics back and forth like a ping pong ball. It might result in some dumb policy but I'd imagine it would have some benefits as well. There are smart people out there who will do work that doesn't pay top industry dollar.
 
Mark Dayton should move to Dayton, Ohio so he can be the lone voice in opposition to Medical Marijuana.

I'm not voting for this fool(again) if he doesn't sign the medical marijuana bill. I'm happy he signed gay marriage into law and signed the hike in the min. wage(still too low, should be $15/hour now not $9.50 in 2 years but that's not his job anyhow to come up with the number). But man, this dude is so fucking out of touch having the cops running people's medical decisions. I totally believe the ladies who met with him when he said they should break the law and get weed off the street if they're desperate which he denies saying. Was never a fan of the guy as Senator and he was probably my last choice of the Dem primary candidates in 2010 so yeah, a couple of improvements on some of my big issues is not enough to earn my vote. Lying is a big no-no in my book, especially for public officials so that wipes all his cred down the drain.

Medical Marijuana will pass the House and Senate(again as it did under Pawlenty) and land on Dayton's desk. If he wants to be Governor again I'm pretty sure he has to sign it. He's gonna lose at least 5% of the people who voted for him last time if he doesn't sign. He better hope he gets some of that 3rd party vote he didn't get last time or he's toast.
 
Mark Dayton should move to Dayton, Ohio so he can be the lone voice in opposition to Medical Marijuana.

I'm not voting for this fool(again) if he doesn't sign the medical marijuana bill. I'm happy he signed gay marriage into law and signed the hike in the min. wage(still too low, should be $15/hour now not $9.50 in 2 years but that's not his job anyhow to come up with the number). But man, this dude is so fucking out of touch having the cops running people's medical decisions. I totally believe the ladies who met with him when he said they should break the law and get weed off the street if they're desperate which he denies saying. Was never a fan of the guy as Senator and he was probably my last choice of the Dem primary candidates in 2010 so yeah, a couple of improvements on some of my big issues is not enough to earn my vote. Lying is a big no-no in my book, especially for public officials so that wipes all his cred down the drain.

Medical Marijuana will pass the House and Senate(again as it did under Pawlenty) and land on Dayton's desk. If he wants to be Governor again I'm pretty sure he has to sign it. He's gonna lose at least 5% of the people who voted for him last time if he doesn't sign. He better hope he gets some of that 3rd party vote he didn't get last time or he's toast.
It would really piss me off if he vetoes this but there's a fine line between a functioning Democratic government in Minnesota turning into Scott Walker's shitty fucking Wisconsin.

Yes, this is totally enabling the two-party system, but I'll hold my nose to vote for Dayton if I have to.
 
Last time I looked, babies weren't endangered, numbnuts. The false equivalency is reaching nuclear proportions.
I see your point but that is really not a good counter-argument.


Stone also touts himself as “the only licensed firearms dealer in America running for Congress” and wants a “Republican revolution” to unite the establishment and the conservative base.
Is there some sort of benefit to having a licensed firearms dealer in Congress? Seems like a negative to me.
 

Piecake

Member
It would really piss me off if he vetoes this but there's a fine line between a functioning Democratic government in Minnesota turning into Scott Walker's shitty fucking Wisconsin.

Yes, this is totally enabling the two-party system, but I'll hold my nose to vote for Dayton if I have to.

Not signing medical marijuana into law is honestly not a big enough issue for me to ditch Dayton. I would have preferred the former mayor (forget his name), but a minimum wage increase, full-day K and an increase in pre-k education is a big deal, lot more than medical marijuana. And What I want him and the legislature focused on is a full pre-k system and an extensive public transportation network. Medical marijuana is not even close to one of my top priorities.
 
Not signing medical marijuana into law is honestly not a big enough issue for me to ditch Dayton. I would have preferred the former mayor (forget his name), but a minimum wage increase, full-day K and an increase in pre-k education is a big deal, lot more than medical marijuana. And What I want him and the legislature focused on is a full pre-k system and an extensive public transportation network. Medical marijuana is not even close to one of my top priorities.
I think we're basically in agreement here. Dayton's done a lot of good but I won't deny vetoing medical marijuana would irk me quite a bit.

Rybak is who you're thinking of.
 

Piecake

Member
I think we're basically in agreement here. Dayton's done a lot of good but I won't deny vetoing medical marijuana would irk me quite a bit.

Rybak is who you're thinking of.

I do agree that his reasoning for possibly vetoing the billl is stupid. The last opinion on the subject should not be left to cops. The people whose opinion you weight the most should be scientists and social researchers who have actually studied the health and social aspects of it.

I would have gone with Dayton over that one lady who got the democratic nomination as well. She just seemed like a corporate democrat party tool who for some inexplicable reason got nominated over the infinitely more electable Rybak because of political connections most likely.

I hate primaries, but I think caucuses might be even worse. Would be so nice if we could just get rid of all of this shit and just go with ranked voting for every election.
 

Diablos

Member
I like this.

But what we've often said is happening...the GOP is becoming a southern regional party.
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There's a lot of places in the midwest that are no different than the deep south. Also the middle of my state (PA) is batshit crazy for the most part too. Hell, venture out far enough here in western PA and you might feel like you are in the south too. Fact is the GOP will continue to capitalize on this for a couple more generations (at least).

I really do expect Walker to be at the top of the list in 2016 if not the frontrunner. He's the guy no one is talking about. Typically, especially for the GOP, whoever is being floated around right now does not make for the nominee. Christie is starting to give me a bit of a Rudy Giuliani vibe and I think his baggage will catch up to him, even if he doesn't get sunk in his own state.

Hillary Clinton is an exception because she's Hillary Clinton, since 2000 and especially 2004 when Kerry lost there's been a constant desire from a lot of people to see her as President.

btw, the new FCC rules on net neutrality make me sick. Plutocracy confirmed?
 
I have my doubts about Walker. I think his legal troubles are going to blow wide open if he makes moves towards a national candidacy, just like Christie.
 

Piecake

Member
I have my doubts about Walker. I think his legal troubles are going to blow wide open if he makes moves towards a national candidacy, just like Christie.

Perhaps I am just too stuck in liberal land, but I honestly do not see an electable Republican candidate right now. They either have questionable ethical issues or views so far out of the mainstream (or both). I am fairly confident that Clinton will win fairly comfortably if she runs.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
I think the problem with projecting the GOP as "southern regional" is that it neglects to note the majority of nut jobs that live just outside of every city, suburb, and town in the country. It's just that in the south the urban core votes aren't enough to outweigh everyone else -- that's why Missouri, Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania are swing states.
 
I think the problem with projecting the GOP as "southern regional" is that it neglects to note the majority of nut jobs that live just outside of every city, suburb, and town in the country. It's just that in the south the urban core votes aren't enough to outweigh everyone else -- that's why Missouri, Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania are swing states.
I don't know if I'd call Pennsylvania a swing state.

The media likes to hype it up as one and the Democrat always ends up winning it - although it was closer in 2000 and 2004.
 

benjipwns

Banned
It's probably not a Presidential swing state, but the GOP does pretty well at everything else considering how far D it goes for the Presidency. I'd say something similar for Michigan really.
 
Speaking of Walker...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/27/u...nds-his-rise-under-scrutiny.html?ref=politics

Well we can at least hope that his Democratic opponent will win this year:

Ms. Burke, too, is walking a delicate political line in a state that chose to keep Mr. Walker after all the uproar over unions: She is looking to traditional Democrats, including unions, for support and has voiced support for collective bargaining. But she has not promised to repeal Mr. Walker’s law that all but ended collective bargaining for public sector workers here.

Welp
 
It's probably not a Presidential swing state, but the GOP does pretty well at everything else considering how far D it goes for the Presidency. I'd say something similar for Michigan really.
Sure. It makes me wonder what constitutes a swing state though. Kentucky elects fairly moderate/liberal Democrats on a regular basis but no one would consider it a swing state.
 

benjipwns

Banned
It's a symptom of the centrality of the Presidential election. Even local media won't cover other races like it does that one.
 

Gotchaye

Member
The Koch Brothers, George Soros, Sheldon Adtkison, the unions (who benefited from Citizens United too we can't forget!), etc. (Along with the internet.) are the types of things that help to reduce the costs of challenges to the existing elite structures. The Tea Party primary victories are a direct result of this, any forthcoming progressive/Green/OWS-associated rises will also benefit from this increased capability to participate. Until the duopoly's hold is broken and the electoral process reformed to reduce the costs, you need a way to pay for those costs.

I think what this misses is that different types of elites have predictably different interests. I'm oversimplifying here, but basically you're looking at people wielding power as having interests which are incidental to the sort of power they're wielding. So you see that we have a relatively small number of people with significant power and you think that making it even easier for a particular class of people - those with lots of money - to influence politics will make it more likely that a (good) challenge to the status quo can be mounted, because, hey, maybe a few of these people with lots of money will decide that that's what they want. To be fair, you don't actually seem very confident that this will happen - your post reads as endorsing this sort of system just because you don't see any other hope of changing things.

The problem with this is that people with lots of money, as a class, have an interest in favoring the people with lots of money. A whole lot of the problem with the outcomes in the system we've got is that policy ends up rigged to protect the people who are already on top, and the system is insufficiently concerned with the welfare of the people on the bottom. I suspect you agree with this, given your liking of the Mattel example and your concern with regulatory capture. But unlimited money in politics seems to clearly tilt things even more in this direction. So maybe we might see some improvements around the edges, if some billionaire has a pet cause (although we likewise might see bad outcomes, and I think bad outcomes are more likely since many pet causes will be the sorts of things that advantage the billionaire directly), but on the central issue of how much the government will favor those already on top it's difficult to see why this would be likely to produce better outcomes than a system with stronger campaign finance laws.

You mention the Tea Party as an example of a movement made possible by this sort of outside money, but it seems to be the opposite of what you're hoping for. The Tea Party was somehow even more pro- the already powerful than the Democrats or Republicans already were. Lots of money helped* whip up such fanaticism that Republicans were on several occasions forced to seriously threaten economic disaster unless spending programs benefiting poor people were cut. This money has contributed to attempts to sabotage Obamacare in ways that seriously harm politicians' non-wealthy constituents, such as by forcing state governors to turn down nearly-free Medicaid expansions. The government was even shut down, hurting lots of people, as essentially a rude gesture directed at Obamacare. The Tea Party was certainly not pressuring Republicans to negotiate an end to the sequester by making up the gap from the wealthy or to agree to just drop the whole thing. The Tea Party was consistently on the side of people who we agree already wield too much power, and when they differed it tended to be because the Tea Party could be hard to rein in such that they were too enthusiastic in pursuit of the interests of the powerful in ways that were strategically harmful to those interests.

Meanwhile, lots of new money has by-and-large not materialized in support of policies not in the interest of people with lots of money. Breaking up the big banks, say. Or even something that you'd think would be easier to fund and where public outreach seems likely to do a lot of good, like net neutrality (to be fair, Google and others do some spending here, although I don't know to what extent this wouldn't have been possible under older campaign finance laws, and this itself is a pretty clear example of how there's only money to be had when it's in the economic interest of powerful people). Or opposition to killing lots of people with drones and spying on just about everybody. On precisely the sorts of issues where one side is basically unrepresented in national politics because both major parties agree, even though there is significant popular support for another side, virtually no big money donors seem willing to try to get the other side heard.

I think it's reasonable to be pessimistic about the amount of influence that regular people's opinions can have in politics, but I think making it even easier for the economically powerful to wield political power only makes it less likely that regular people's interests win the day, just because economic interests are the most important interests for many people. What we've seen happening is that the economically powerful try to tilt the system even further in their direction, and there is no real counter-balancing force from other wealthy donors because the wealthy by-and-large share and pursue a class interest in protecting the wealthy.

*I don't think the Tea Party really was all about the influence of outside money. Fox and a calculated political decision by Republicans to pursue a strategy of total opposition to Obama were major factors in producing this destructive fanaticism among the voters.
 
It's a symptom of the centrality of the Presidential election. Even local media won't cover other races like it does that one.
Which is fun when GOP turnout predictably outpaces DEM turnout because the media never talks about it, and then they claim it preludes some massive GOP comeback that never occurs in presidential elections.
 

benjipwns

Banned
I think what this misses is that different types of elites have predictably different interests.
That's what it's centered around. That war within the elites will help prevent their ganging up together in a singular class interest or at the very least just waste their resources.

Soros spends a lot of money on marijuana legalization while the dominant political elite interest is heavily against any kind of decriminalization of drugs because as Hillary said there's too much money in it. In a system where he can't contribute like this the state's interest isn't going to be challenged with significant resources at all.

but on the central issue of how much the government will favor those already on top it's difficult to see why this would be likely to produce better outcomes than a system with stronger campaign finance laws.
Stronger campaign finance laws which reduce First Amendment protections just increase the costs to participate in the political process. They make any outsider challenges to the system even more difficult. In a system without any limitations it's easier to raise the resources to enter the fray from outside of the dominant institutions.

They grant the state even more say in who is allowed to contest for control of the state.
 
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I really do expect Walker to be at the top of the list in 2016 if not the frontrunner. He's the guy no one is talking about. Typically, especially for the GOP, whoever is being floated around right now does not make for the nominee.

"Nobodies" never get the Republican nomination. Can anyone even name an unknown that did?
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Typically, especially for the GOP, whoever is being floated around right now does not make for the nominee.

That's just completely wrong. GOP has been completely set on it's top 2 choices by this point every election in recent history. It's the Dems that are historically willing to change their minds.

It seems to me like this is the cycle that will break the trend, but the trend is definitely the exact opposite of what you claim.
 

Diablos

Member
Walker went into a de facto union state and stabbed it in the heart. Democrats tried to organize a recall election to kick him out and they threw up all over themselves. He's a hero to Republicans and has a lot to brag about (from a GOP point of view).

That's just completely wrong. GOP has been completely set on it's top 2 choices by this point every election in recent history. It's the Dems that are historically willing to change their minds.

It seems to me like this is the cycle that will break the trend, but the trend is definitely the exact opposite of what you claim.
I dunno, I seem to remember McCain being at only like 6% at this point in 2006-2007, a lot of people thought it was going to be Rudy vs. Hillary.
Of course, Romney was really the only viable candidate for 2012. Although I am surprised Pawlenty dropped out so early, I thought he had some staying power. Certainly I don't understand why Santorum held on for as long as he did, dude never had a chance.
Guess I was thinking about the buildup to 2008 too much perhaps.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Fifty-five percent (55%) of Likely U.S. Voters believe the government should be allowed to review political ads and candidates’ campaign comments for their accuracy and punish those that it decides are making false statements about other candidates. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 31% oppose such government oversight. Fourteen percent (14%) are undecided.
I just, I don't even...
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Walker went into a de facto union state and stabbed it in the heart. Democrats tried to organize a recall election to kick him out and they threw up all over themselves. He's a hero to Republicans and has a lot to brag about (from a GOP point of view).


I dunno, I seem to remember McCain being at only like 6% at this point in 2006-2007, a lot of people thought it was going to be Rudy vs. Hillary.
Of course, Romney was really the only viable candidate for 2012. Although I am surprised Pawlenty dropped out so early, I thought he had some staying power. Certainly I don't understand why Santorum held on for as long as he did, dude never had a chance.
Guess I was thinking about the buildup to 2008 too much perhaps.

Yeah, it was going to be Rudy until he ran one of the worst jokes of a campaign you could think of, but McCain was never a dark horse. And I'm still with you that Walker is the most likely candidate if only because everyone else just seems so incredibly unlikely. I just find that little piece of statistics interesting. Makes me wonder what would have happened if Colin Powell ran in 2000.
 

benjipwns

Banned
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/376607/obama-subverts-law-name-clemency-andrew-c-mccarthy

So now it’s the pardon power.

To this point, in making a mockery of his core constitutional duty to execute the laws faithfully, the broad law-enforcement discretion the Constitution vests in the executive branch has been President Obama’s preferred sleight of hand.

...

Alas, the next item on the transformational-change agenda is undoing prior administrations’ faithful execution of the narcotics laws. The forward-looking prosecutorial-discretion doctrine is unavailing to address the past. That is where the pardon power comes in.

The Obama administration does not like the federal narcotics laws. The enmity goes way beyond the president’s nostalgic sympathy for pot smokers. And it has nothing to do with the philosophical objections of libertarians to the criminalization of drug use — we are talking, after all, about an administration whose zeal to intrude on our private lives could make Michael Bloomberg blush. Instead, like Justice Sonia Sotomayor’s incoherent dissent in the Supreme Court’s affirmative-action ruling this week — she argues that a public referendum banning racial discrimination is somehow racially discriminatory — the administration’s disdain for the drug laws owes to its obsession with race and the poisonous politics that flow from it.

For years before they came to power, the president and his underlings belonged to a confederacy of leftist defense lawyers, academics, and “community organizers” — the people who gave us the criminal-rights revolution of the 1960s and the resultant soaring crime rates of the 1970s. Their cart-before-the-horse illogic gave us “disparate impact”: The theory that perversely erases from our consideration the only thing that makes racism racism — the intention to discriminate by race. Instead, they conveniently overlook the social, cultural, and government-policy roots of crime rates in minority communities, and instruct us to deduce systemic racism from the mere happenstance of higher minority conviction rates. The absence of a scintilla of evidence of racism in the text or enactment of the criminal laws makes no difference.

This thinking pervaded the bench every bit as much as the bar and the law schools. Criminals were often given absurdly light sentences for serious offenses. Consequently, when the public finally demanded that meaningful action be taken against the rising tide of crime, elected officials who answer to the voters took some sentencing discretion out of the hands of judges who do not.

...

Just as our counterterrorism policy is skewed by over-lawyering — normal people are more concerned about whether our methods prevent terrorist atrocities than whether they give enough due process to terrorists — so too is law-enforcement policy. The Lawyer Left agitates over the racial composition of narcotics dealers. But if lawmakers were factoring race into the equation at all when they wrote the drug laws — and the statutes themselves are race-neutral, as the Constitution mandates — it was the victims of narcotics trafficking they had in mind. The only disparate impact of significance to normal people, those not obsessed with race or criminals’ rights, is the impact that crack dealing has had on minority communities. They have been ravaged.

...

As usual, the administration’s story is rife with fraud. Holder carefully talks about “non-violent” drug “offenders.” Obama riffs about “kids or individual users” supposedly “lock[ed] up . . . for long stretches of jail time.” You are left to imagine poor addicts who never hurt anyone but themselves, languishing for decades in some super-max prison. Yet federal drug enforcement targets felony drug dealers, not simple possession of drugs — the latter is left to the states. Mere users of marijuana and crack are not wasting away in federal penitentiaries. Moreover, an offender sentenced under a mandatory-minimum provision has necessarily committed a significant narcotics felony; the felony distribution of minor amounts of narcotics is not subject to a mandatory minimum, and judges maintain discretion to sentence those offenders to little or no jail time. Obama and Holder are talking about freeing what could amount to thousands of serious criminals.

...

A lawless president does more than violate his oath and demonstrate his unfitness. He forfeits trust. You say you want immigration reformed? You say you want drug policy rethought? Opinions on these matters vary widely, but one thing is for certain: It makes no sense to legislate on a subject that hinges on effective law enforcement unless you can trust that the law you pass will be the law. That means you have to be able to trust the president. With this president, it means waiting for the next president.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
The National Review shouldn't talk about race they have quite the racist past:
Why the South Must Prevail

You know, the past publication of racist articles doesn't disqualify National Review from publishing articles discussing race today. This kind of ad hominem attack is bad enough when it's directed, well, to the man who said a thing in the past. What makes your attempt to disqualify National Review even more logically deplorable is that you're attempting to disqualify a present writer for the objectionable writings of a different, past writer.

To the topic at hand: I think it's silly to complain about Obama using the pardon power to pardon people. That's what the power is there for.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs

That's a whole lot of stupid. He's complaining about Obama exercising his power to commute and pardon prisoners because he doesn't like the fact the guys being pardoned and having their sentences commuted are drug offenders?

Who gives a shit? It's his constitutional power to do this at his own discretion. Obama has to answer to no one when it comes to this. He could let Charles Manson out of jail if he wanted to, the Constitution puts no limits on this.

Our drug laws are fucked up anyway, so this is a good thing. He righting a wrong that Congress is too goddamn scared to. He should be applauded for this.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Yeah, but these are potentially big time drug criminals and that means there's a serious chance they might break the drug laws again.

You could say that about literally anyone being pardoned. Also it's not like he's picking people out at random, prisoners up for presidential pardons are vetted pretty thoroughly.
 
You know, the past publication of racist articles doesn't disqualify National Review from publishing articles discussing race today. This kind of ad hominem attack is bad enough when it's directed, well, to the man who said a thing in the past. What makes your attempt to disqualify National Review even more logically deplorable is that you're attempting to disqualify a present writer for the objectionable writings of a different, past writer.

To the topic at hand: I think it's silly to complain about Obama using the pardon power to pardon people. That's what the power is there for.
Cliven Bundy has shown us how much the far right has changed.


Btw whining about pardons? Another are where the right has no moral high ground. Ford pardoned Nixon. Bush 1 pardoned all the Reagan Iran-Contra criminals. Bush pardoned Scooter Libby. Pardoning your own administration criminals seems to be the worst abuse of the power. Conflict of interest.
 
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