She took money from the private prison industry as well.Ok good, was curious about the criminal justice stuff. I don't think shes horribly corrupt or even more corrupt than any republican, theres just some doubt about all the money she took for her speeches. I don't really care about what the republicans say to her, its the far more up to date alumni/students of my alma mater.
That's pretty similar to the socialist lens, quite frankly. Most socialist parties have their heads so far up their identity politics that it's detrimental.Tl;dr marxist/socialist lens vs more sociological/intersectional lens (idk the right word).
When really we should start all using the neuro lens and realize we shouldn't fight and come as one~
I was referring to the list and the reasons people think we should vote for her.
On income inequality, Sanders wipes the floor with her. I knew about the minimum wage - I even commented on how she's not reaching high enough to be able to have room for bargaining if it is required. There is NOWHERE on income inequality where she's not to the right (|-|>) of Bernie Sanders.
She took money from the private prison industry as well.
Not really. What we think is that Hillary won't even attempt to get the minimum wage increased. It hurts the profits of Wall Street (it actually wouldn't, but Wall Street is against it for class reasons, not outcome reasons).What Bernie fans think will happen:
Bernie: let's raise the minimum wage to $15
Republicans: No
Bernie: ok we'll comprise and do $12
Republicans: ok deal
What would actually happen:
Bernie: let's raise the minimum wage to $15
Republicans: LOL
Bernie: ok we'll comprise and do $12
Republicans: No
Bernie: $11?
Republicans: Nope
Bernie: $9?
Republicans: Nope
Bernie: ok 10cents increase! Surely you can do that much!
Republicans: F*ck you
I don't think anyone is going to argue that Hillary is to the left of Bernie on many issues. But there is far more daylight between Hillary and her GOP opponents than there is between Hillary and Bernie. This "only slightly more progressive than Jon Huntsman" bullshit is just that.I was referring to the list and the reasons people think we should vote for her.
On income inequality, Sanders wipes the floor with her. I knew about the minimum wage - I even commented on how she's not reaching high enough to be able to have room for bargaining if it is required. There is NOWHERE on income inequality where she's not to the right (|-|>) of Bernie Sanders.
I dunno, I happen to think that income inequality affects everyone, not just white men.
The political triangulation involved with courting specific communities while not addressing class issues is quite definitely 'Identity politics' - in that it uses issues of identity to distract from class struggle in order to maintain the economic status quo and the priorities of capitalism.
There's daylight between Alien and Predator too...I don't see how that's relevant if you're trying to defeat both.I don't think anyone is going to argue that Hillary is to the left of Bernie on many issues. But there is far more daylight between Hillary and her GOP opponents than there is between Hillary and Bernie. This "only slightly more progressive than Jon Huntsman" bullshit is just that.
Ironically, all the reasons people point to guys like Huntsman as "moderate" is because of what you deride as "identity politics." Yeah he said some nice things about gays once, who cares if he supported the Ryan budget?
By all means, vote for Bernie in the primary. I am! But don't sit here and pretend that Hillary isn't on the correct side of many progressive issues, even if sometimes she doesn't go far enough.
Smh "conceding" that child care and maternity leave are connected to the economy. All of this shit is connected. That's the entire point of Bernie's campaign right? Such ignorance.
Yeah but identity politicsBut when you focus on class issues at the expense of the concerns of outgroups like women and minorities then you see what happened in the 50's and 60's where the relatively privileged (ie white men) gain and others far farther behind. Southern blacks were left in crushing poverty and Hispanics faced mass deportation while the overall 'worker class' advanced.
Then your problem is that you're looking at Hillary as the enemy.There's daylight between Alien and Predator too...I don't see how that's relevant if you're trying to defeat both.
Not really. What we think is that Hillary won't even attempt to get the minimum wage increased. It hurts the profits of Wall Street (it actually wouldn't, but Wall Street is against it for class reasons, not outcome reasons).
Then your problem is that you're looking at Hillary as the enemy.
Yeah but identity politics
What a Goldman analyst says doesn't necessarily mean "Goldman" supports it. If there was a story saying they were actively lobbying for an increase that would be another thing altogether.Small businesses are more against minimum wage increases than Wall Street is. Goldman Sachs supports it:
"Even Goldman Sachs Analysts Say A Minimum Wage Hike Wouldn't Be A Big Job Killer"
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/goldman-sachs-minimum-wage_n_5077677.html
Of course that goes against Bernie populist propaganda that has Wall Street as the root of all evil
A: I doubt that she will. The focus will still be on identity politics and not economic politics.Hillary will appoint progressive SCOTUS justices. That is all that matters.
There's too many buzzwords/people/terms that are good for the middle square this cycleIt should be the middle square.
A: I doubt that she will. The focus will still be on identity politics and not economic politics.
B: it's not even close to being 'all that matters'.
No, that was the compromise Hamilton made with Jefferson in order to get the charter for the first bank of the US. Jefferson wanted the capital to be further south.
Yes, I am. She is an enemy.
It worked for Lenin.Without shades of gray and compromise, democracy doesn't work. You can't characterise everyone you disagree with as an enemy if you want to accomplish anything peacefully. I say this as a fan of Bernie.
Honestly looks like a long troll by a bernie bro plant.Have you guys seen this email that the Hillary campaign sent out recently? Just terrible lmao.
http://imgur.com/a/UiYnV
Most white Americans (62%) say that your class has a bigger impact on your life in America than your race (19%), something black Americans definitely do not agree with. 67% of black Americans say that race is more important than class, something only 23% disagree with. Hispanics are split 41% to 41%.
I didn't say that everyone with whom I disagree is an enemy. I said that Hillary Clinton is an enemy.Without shades of gray and compromise, democracy doesn't work. You can't characterise everyone you disagree with as an enemy if you want to accomplish anything peacefully. I say this as a fan of Bernie.
Also, this explains pretty much entirely why Sanders is struggling to connect with black voters:
https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/01/29/racial-attitudes-differ-ideology-class/
Sanders is concerned about racial justice but obviously thinks that class matters the most out of anything.
I'm ignoring you.I didn't say that everyone with whom I disagree is an enemy. I said that Hillary Clinton is an enemy.
It worked for Lenin.
Honestly looks like a long troll by a bernie bro plant.
She is an enemy.
one thing people need to realize is that uneducated blue collar whites who are struggling are a voting block that don't like to hear about political correctness or openness towards refugees. They see themselves to be left out of the equation and screwed in terms of shitty jobs, non-accessibility to go to college, bad housing, and etc.
IMO, the best way to treat it is not to complain about them being white and they have it better because that drives them towards the Trump camp.
the best way to deal with it is to stear the country further Left in terms of Maternity leave, equal pay, Single Payer, and cheaper affordable Colleges.
When educated Democrats turn a blind eye towards the working class whites just because "they don't have it as bad as minorities". That is when Republicans exploit that gap and attract a lower income voting block to vote Right Wing against their best interests baiting them into identity politics.
lmao honestly. I can't comprehend how that came from Hillary's campaign.
What's with the tutu thing...wtf....
I don't believe that there will be a glorious communist revolution, comrade.Guys, it's time to understand that disastermouse is just the bizarro version of benji.
His position is wildly extreme and also laid out clearly -- the only thing that matters is the glorious communist revolution, and literally every other issue is a smokescreen created by the rentiers to distract the laboring class with internal conflict -- so there's probably no point in arguing with alternate versions of him that, say, have any political interests that don't involve productive labor.
At least he's not an accelerationist!
You know I'm not a Democrat. Why should this surprise you?That's the money quote right there. It's something that simply speaks for itself.
Thank you for this.
I didn't indicate that I was suprised, did I?You know I'm not a Democrat. Why should this surprise you?
As if you weren't already.I'm ignoring you.
Then what makes the quote noteworthy in any way whatsoever?I didn't indicate that I was suprised, did I?
Hold on a tic; let me go back and read it.
*goes back and reads it*
Nope. No indication of surprise detected.
What a Goldman analyst says doesn't necessarily mean "Goldman" supports it. If there was a story saying they were actively lobbying for an increase that would be another thing altogether.
It's just a great tell, that's all.Then what makes the quote noteworthy in any way whatsoever?
Guess who said these things:
"'There's no place for pure, unregulated capitalism'"
"We have to do a better job" of distributing wealth, he said. "Everybody has to join in."
"too much of the GDP over the last generation has gone to too few of the people."
"Income inequality is a very destabilizing thing in the country, a very polarizing thing in the country. In other words, its responsible for the divisions in the country. Those divisions could get wider. If you cant legislate, you cant deal with problems. If you cant deal with problems, you cant drive growth, and you cant drive the success of the country."
Goldman Sachs CEO himself:
http://blog.workingamerica.org/tag/lloyd-blankfein/
http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/24/investing/lloyd-blankfein-china-capitalism-goldman-sachs/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/business-leaders-capitalism-inequality_b_5510821.html
Of course that hasn't stopped the Bernie demonizing:
"On With All Due Respect, Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders discusses his speech on financial reform. When asked for an example of Wall Street greed, the Vermont senator says Goldman Sachs Lloyd Blankfein makes huge amounts of money after destroying the economy.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/v...-blankfein-as-an-example-of-wall-street-greed
CONFIRMED: the Clinton and Sanders camps have agreed in principle to attend four more debates (as @EvanMcSan and @rubycramer just reported)
The problem is that they're also usually a bit racist as a voting block and want those things, but only if everyone else doesn't get them. You see it play out with things like medicare and social security; they like these things and want to keep them, but don't want to expand them to everyone.
Honestly I don't think it did. It's a troll.
Are you arguing the Lloyd doesn't make a ton of money because of the current state of capitalism here? The problem isn't that anyone in any system is intrinsically evil, its that the incentives that our brains respond to lead to people getting screwed.
No, I don't think that Capitalism caused racism or colonialism. I think that it is an expression of those things, as any system of coercion is. It's much less an expression of them than what came before.I think it's pretty simplistic to act as if racism and colonialism were not fundamentally intertwined with capitalism's development and its continued operation. They're not dependent sub-issues, they work together (one existed before the other after all). Plus you've got inherent issues of equity vs. equality when trying to correct the system.
Reddit is saying that it's confirmed to have come from Hillary's campaign.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersFor..._donated_to_bernie_again_because_of_an_awful/
But Reddit is very largely for Sanders. I don't know how they verified it. In the comments they go into it a bit more.
You'll find similar quotes from the largest energy corporations about climate change as well, but what he said again doesn't mean Goldman actually supports these things. Lloyd also doesn't unilaterally control the bank either, he answers to his shareholders.Guess who said these things:
"'There's no place for pure, unregulated capitalism'"
"We have to do a better job" of distributing wealth, he said. "Everybody has to join in."
"too much of the GDP over the last generation has gone to too few of the people."
"Income inequality is a very destabilizing thing in the country, a very polarizing thing in the country. In other words, its responsible for the divisions in the country. Those divisions could get wider. If you cant legislate, you cant deal with problems. If you cant deal with problems, you cant drive growth, and you cant drive the success of the country."
Goldman Sachs CEO himself:
http://blog.workingamerica.org/tag/lloyd-blankfein/
http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/24/investing/lloyd-blankfein-china-capitalism-goldman-sachs/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/business-leaders-capitalism-inequality_b_5510821.html
Of course that hasn't stopped the Bernie demonizing:
"On With All Due Respect, Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders discusses his speech on financial reform. When asked for an example of Wall Street greed, the Vermont senator says Goldman Sachs Lloyd Blankfein makes huge amounts of money after destroying the economy.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/v...-blankfein-as-an-example-of-wall-street-greed
Reddit is saying that it's confirmed to have come from Hillary's campaign.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersFor..._donated_to_bernie_again_because_of_an_awful/
But Reddit is very largely for Sanders. I don't know how they verified it. In the comments they go into it a bit more.
What's the purpose of this if she wins Iowa?